For those Brits with partners, the following posting about registering Civil Partnerships in SE Asia may be of interest:
http://dragoncastle.net/gayforum/viewtopic.php?pid=52#p52

Thanks, Paul. I just checked the link you posted and read the article. Very interesting and not overly expensive. Any thoughts on how that would apply to those of us falang who are NOT British - for example, from Australia, NZ, USA etc?

Peter

One of the 2 partners should be British forthe UK Embassy to have juridiction.
Even then if the non British partner is Thai for example, it would not be 'valid' in Thailand as Thai laws do not recognize (yet) partnerships of the same sex.
What is interresting is that the UK Embassy in Thailand do not register partnerships but the one in Vietnam does (for non-Vietnamese)
It saves a lot of trouble and expenses to do it in Vietnam instead of going all the way to the UK to register it including the hassle and agravation of getting a UK visa and proving the partnership (to get the visa) at the Uk Embassy in Bangkok.
Once the civil partnership is registerred, the non British partner has a much easier task to get visas for the UK and for the EU countries BUT not for countries which doesnot recognize same sex partnerships, it might even be a obstacle.....

The Belgium Embassy in Tokyo agreed to register/perform a same sex mariage between 2 non Japanese of the same sex as long as the belgian partner was registerred at the Embassy in Tokyo but they quetsionned the legal implications of the validity of the marage if later challenged in courts as Japan does not recognize such unions.As same sex mariages are very new for international laws, it was strongly recommended to go through the expenses of having it registered/ performed in Belgium.

If you ‘Google’ British Embassy and Civil Partnerships, it will give you a list of all the Embassies that do this around the world, as well as showing where these Civil Partnerships are recognized

Also all the info you need: http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2004/ukpga_20040033_en_1


Countries that recognise same-sex relationships

• Argentina
• Austria
• Australia
• Belgium
• Brazil
• Canada
• Croatia
• Czech Republic
• Denmark
• Finland
• France
• Germany
• Hungary
• Iceland
• Ireland
• Israel
• Liechtenstein
• Luxembourg
• Netherlands
• New Zealand
• Norway
• Poland
• Portugal
• Slovenia
• South Africa
• Spain
• Sweden
• Switzerland
• Taiwan
• USA

My partner and I (Brit) he Japanese, did it last year in HCMC. It is straightforward, although as the Dragonncastle writer notes, there are a lot of papers and two trips to Vietnam required. Also the Brit's Cert of No impediment can be done in the consulate in HCMC. The Japanese one had to be certified by the Min of Foreign Affairs, (in Bkk). I'm not clear about the benefits of being allowed to live in UK, as i think that's a different department. But anyway, it's not an issue for us.

This post has been edited by samtam: 2008-02-24 11:47:27

Are you saying that the UK Embassy in Vietnam asked for a certificate of No Impediment issued by Japan to be certified by the Thai Min of Foreign affairs ? Or is it because the paper was issued by the Japanese Embassy in Bangkok ?
With a UK passport you do not have difficulties to ener Japan as a tourist forup to 6 months at a time but do you know if been in a civil partnership with a Japanese it would make is easier or more difficult to get a long term visa to live with your partner in Japan ?

I cant say anything about Japan - but a Certificate of No Impediment is not require by the Hanoi Embassy for the Brit partner, only the non-Brit, according to the recent experience of two couples.

For non-Brits, it may be possible at your Embassy if your home country (Spain, Denmark etc) already recognises gay marriage or civil partnerships. You'd need to check with them.

This post has been edited by pauln: 2008-02-24 14:36:29

As Japan is not on the list of countries that recognises Civil Partnerships (like Thailand) i doubt it will make any difference when applying for a long term visa in Japan. When my partner and i apply for Thia Visa's we do it as single people not as a registered couple - they're not interested in laws from outside the country.

Thanks for that. I also tend to think it might be even an obstacle to the issuing of the visa if the partnership was stated in the application. I am hesitating between a civil partnership and a full mariage as my country allows either. With a civil partnership I suppose the marital status can be 'single' for other country's applications but if you are in a full same sex mariage it is difficult not to mention it on the applications at least not for the partner of which the country recognizes the mariage.

This gets more interesting by the minute. According to this link, Australia recognises same-sex relationships. From my recollection this is not so. The Australian Capital Teritory did briefly, but the Australian Government overturned the legislation, stating that Marriage was between a man and a woman.

For tax purposes, a spouse must be the opposite sex to a taxpayer, so I would not be able to claim a Thai partner as a spouse.

For Immigration purposes, I can apply for an Interdependency Visa: Offshore Temporary and Permanent (Subclasses 310 and 110).

Peter

Thanks for that. I also tend to think it might be even an obstacle to the issuing of the visa if the partnership was stated in the application. I am hesitating between a civil partnership and a full mariage as my country allows either. With a civil partnership I suppose the marital status can be 'single' for other country's applications but if you are in a full same sex mariage it is difficult not to mention it on the applications at least not for the partner of which the country recognizes the mariage.
[/quote]

Yes, there's a list of countries that i'd certainly not want to mention the situation as i'm sure we'd be turned down straight away, such is life - one day maybe,but i doubt it will be in my life time.I'm sure that i read the other day that Dubai were not going to give visa's to any gay/lesbian tourists and if you were found out you'd be deported straight away But then both John Howard and George Bush would have had it that way i think if they had had half a chance. I find it hard to understand why Thailand will not allow foreign embassies to conduct Civil Partnership ceremonies, ok if it involves a Thai national but if it doesn't then what's it got to do with them?

Our purpose in a civil partnership was for my Thai bf to get rights to my pensions, and for a more favourable tax regime in the Uk for me. I wouldn't mention it on any official forms in Thailand, or elsewhere. The benefits are mainly financial for us and won't be of any use in getting visa for anywhere other than the UK.

This post has been edited by samtam: 2008-02-24 18:44:38

I'm affraid that the list of countries that accept same-sex civil parnetships is NOT accurate.

Ireland DOES NOT recognise same-sex unions of any kind yet, in spite of all the efforts of local heroe Sen. David Norris.

Very useful and interesting posts. I had been looking at this area for a long time. If I were to take my Thai BF to the UK to 'marry' then there would be all kinds of hoops. we would have to be resident for a few months to post the banns AND the law would require photos and shared bills dated back as proof of relationship (or I could just be a people smuggler for thai guys wanting to enter the UK).

Questions:

Is this Vietnam 'method' the same as UK registry of civil partnership?

Does proof of relationship need to be shown (old photos etc)?

Is it registering under British embassy?

Can my Thai BF now be 'my wife' equiv., and enter the UK on his own?

Is there a different visa requirement for the UK once he is my spouse?

Very importantly...I have Spanish residency and actually live in Spain when in Europe. Can my BF/spouse now enter Spain as I can? Spain 'married' couples before the UK ever did.

Thanks

PEd

There is quite a difference between civil partnership and marriage.
I know Belgium and Spain marry same sex partners and do also civil partnerships.I am not sure if the UK does both

If you have entered in a civil partnership your Thai BF would be able to get a Schengen visa much easier than without it.
If you were married to your Thai bf under Spanish law (not sure you can but maybe depending on your resident status) then the UK would HAVE to grnat your BF a visa under the EU agreements.

To answer those questions:

Yes the "vietnam" method is a legal UK civil partnership.

No proof of relationship was asked of us, or another couple we know.

The registration is by the British Embassy and you can select which of the UK's countries you want it registered in i.e. England, Scotland etc.

There are special visa arrangement for Thais who have married a UK citizen. You should check the UK's Bangkok embassy website as they have lots of good information. There is likely to be an interview process at least. (They want to be sure its genuine).

I can't answer the question about Spain as I have no knowledge of that. However, as Spain recognises Gay Marriages they may well accept the civil partnership. Why not ask them direct? I've found most bureaucracies these days fairly helpful, whether UK Thai, or other.

The above comment about marrying in Spain is valid. I know of a Thai/Irish couple who used this to get the Thai bf residency in the UK.

As far as I can see the UK civil partnership gives us all the rights (and problems) of a married couple. The word doesn't matter much.

This post has been edited by pauln: 2008-02-28 14:36:07

It does indeed give all the same rights as heterosexual couples. I don't think there are any "special" visa arrangements though, the usual having proof that you will not need to be supported by the govenment etc etc is exactly the same. We submitted my partners details including income etc and were issued with a 2 year visitors visa without an interview,but had we been applying for a settlement visa i'm sure it would have involved an interview.Gay or straight it's all the same, one of the few things that this labour government can really be proud of i think.

Apologies - by special visa arrangement, I meant that there is a visa category for Brits marrying a non-EU citizen.

Thanks for that update.

What is the 'normal' outlook, visa-wise, if I want to take my Thai spouse to the UK 'permanently' or for a long time, like years?

If we are 'married', can't we just move there...as long as I prove my financial status?

Aren't hets allowed to take their wives to live??

Any more info about the 'theoretical' situation for moving to Spain (I already have residence) would be particularly interesting.

PEd

Even if married, the non-British spouse must obtain a visa to enter the UK. I believe it is much easier to get the visa for short trips (if married vs simply friends) but for residence it seems to be very difficult and getting more so. They now seem to ask that the non-British spouse has a certain level of English language ability before considering long term residence visa.

Hope this helps:

OUTRAGE UK PRESS RELEASE DECEMBER 13TH 2007

UK Civil Partnerships recognised in Spain

Breakthrough in international recognition

Call for common EU policy to recognise civil partners in all member states


London and Madrid – 13 December 2007

“The Spanish government has, for the first time, recognised UK same-sex civil partnerships,” said gay human
rights campaigner Peter Tatchell of OutRage!

“This is a big breakthrough in securing overseas recognition and rights for British lesbian and gay civil partners.
Up to now, civil partnerships are mostly unrecognised abroad.

“This creates huge legal problems for UK lesbian and gay civil partners who travel, work or retire abroad. They
are treated as two single people, with neither rights nor responsibilities.

“Up to now, the Spanish government has dismissed civil partnerships as a uniquely British institution, with no
international validity. It has refused to give any legal rights to UK same-sex civil partners who have settled in
Spain; viewing civil partnerships as inferior to civil marriage and unworthy of recognition.

“Spain’s decision to recognise UK civil partnerships is the result of months of lobbying by two UK civil partners who
now live in Spain, Paul and Martin Ward. They fought and won this concession,” said Mr Tatchell.

“This is a great step forward for lesbian and gay civil partners,” said Paul Ward.

“We are both delighted with this positive outcome and we are glad that we have achieved this result for others, as
well as for ourselves,” he said.

Mr Tatchell concurs:

“This is a significant step forward in securing international acknowledgement and rights for lesbian and gay civil
partners,” he said.

“I hope the new Spanish ruling will prompt other countries to follow suit and, in particular, that the EU will agree to
adopt a common policy of recognising civil partnerships throughout all member states,” said Mr Tatchell.

Statement by Paul and Martin Ward:

“In December of 2006 we contacted our local authority in the UK, Devon County Hall, and were advised that a UK
same-sex civil partnership would be recognised in Spain.

“We became civil partners on Valentines Day of 2007. See www.freewebs.com/shaldon

“At the time, Paul lived in Spain and both of us returned to Spain to start our new life together.

“After contacting the British Consul in Malaga we were distraught to discover our civil partnership was not
recognised in Spain, leaving us in a situation of now your married, now your not, with no legal rights.

“We both decided to fight for our partnership to be recognised here in Spain, in the same way that Spain
recognises a UK heterosexual marriage and the UK recognises a Spanish gay marriage.

“We have had long, protracted battled with Denise Holt the UK Ambassador to Spain, Michael Holloway the UK
Consul General in Madrid, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the Foreign Secretary, David Miliband MP.

“Throughout or struggle for the recognition of our civil partnership we had the support of Michael Cashman MEP,
Glenys Kinnock, MEP and gay human rights campaigner Peter Tatchell.

“On the 16 August this year, David Miliband the UK Foreign Secretary had a meeting with the Ministry of Justice in
Spain, where he discussed our case.

“We were subsequently advised by the British consul that the UK Embassy in Madrid, the Foreign and
Commonwealth Office on London and Spanish Ministry of Justice were negotiating a decision on Spanish
recognition of UK same-sex civil partnerships.

“The eventual result was that Spain did, indeed, agree to recognise the civil partnerships of UK lesbian and gay
couples.

“We visited the British Consul on 29 November to change our status in our passports.

“We have made a little bit of history by becoming the first UK same-sex couple resident in Spain to have their civil
partnership acknowledged in law and in the observations section of our passports.

“This is a great step forward for lesbian and gay civil partners.

“We are both delighted with this positive outcome and we are glad that we have achieved this result for others, as
well as for ourselves.”

More information:

Paul and Martin Ward: 0034678284982

Peter Tatchell, OutRage!: 020 7403 1790

Ends

Excellent news. The boys done well!

The fact that they are both Brits---does that give them a head start? What I mean is that, if I 'marry' my Thai BF in Vietnam (as above), do I need to apply for a Schengen visa to take him to Spain? I have Spanish residence. I believe that a Schengen is for, say, a few weeks.

Once we get to Spain, do I then go to the British Consulate and announce/register our arrival? Will I then get residency for my BF or a longer visa?

If I had a British spouse/bf, I know that we could breeze into Spain no probs. I am worried about making plans, though, for my Thai BF. If he overstayed on the Schengen, would we then go and plead that we were married, in order to stay?

P

I would imagine that all visa's must be got before you went to Spain together. After you marry in Vietnam you should apply for the relevant visa at the Spanish Embassy in Bangkok , your Civil Partnership certificate should be shown along with all your details of income etc, i don't see it being any different to applying for a visa to the UK, give them a call or drop them an e.mail, they'll give you all the details:
Spanish Embassy in Bangkok, Thailand Embassy of Spain in Bangkok, Thailand send edits
Lake Rajada Office Complex
23rd Floor,Suites No.98-99,
193, Ratchadapisek Road, Klongtoey,
Bangkok 10110
Thailand
City: Bangkok
Phone: 02 661 8284-6
Fax: 02 661 9220
Email: embespth@mail.mae.es
Office Hours: 08.30 -15.30 (Monday - Thursday) 08.30 - 13.30 (Friday) Visa Section: 09.00-12.00 (Monday - Friday)

Very good thread and many thanks to all!

Any further advice welcomed. Are you an EU national who married your Thai BF? Did you then return home with him? Or to another EU country? What type/length of visa did he get?

PEd