Just what are the 'jungle drums' saying on these matters?
Things do seem to be coming to a head, where you and PB were once advising patience, you both seem to have enough of hitting your head against a brick wall. It's not getting better.
These matters are out of our hands so what are Thai schools saying about the impact of all these policies and the minefield that the MoE are creating, do you have any info?

This post has been edited by Robski: 2007-01-05 12:05:31

robski, I don't know what most Thai schools think, and I'm not sure that Ijustwannateach knows, either. We're moderators, not gurus. Most Thai schools don't know and never knew. Some of them don't think at all about these issues. They never knew diddly squat about how to help farang teach in Thailand: visas, work permits, teacher's licenses. They - the bosses in Thai schools - do not learn; they're just bosses with lots of other problems to solve.

Many schools have only a handful of farang teachers, who work there illegally. Many schools consider the farang to be a standard-issue widget: hire one more when the last one quits. Only the best Thai schools work hard to keep their best foreign teachers.

A rajabat teacher just quit over this issue of impossible paperwork that her university couldn't resolve. The lady there, who's looking for a replacement, probably doesn't have a clue. They think you can rent an endless supply of illegal, complacent farang at Tesco-Lotus.

Sorry PB if you felt I was sniping, I think most of us would look to you or IJWT for a good answer and there in fact you gave one.
This situation looks like it will cause more illegal working not less and lot more teachers having to work through agencies.
I know a while ago the head of schools in the Phuket area was organising some kind of protest to the MoE, but didn't hear any more about it, I wondered wether there was any kind of teaching union, and what they may think of the situation. Sorry! getting ahead of myself again..

No man, you weren't sniping at all. And you caught me in a negative, flippant mood. The Phuket schools' protest to the MoE (which was on a regional level, I believe) seems to be off the radar screen now. Since the right hand of govt. often doesn't know what the right hand is doing, I doubt that in these more turbulent times, the MoE guys and the MoL gals are even having lunch together, let alone coordinating policy and procedures with the MoFA people and the Police Immigration folks. And to be modest, I imagine that we few farang teachers are the least of their problems. If they think about us at all (which is seldom if ever), those potentates at the ministries probably don't realize that a paperwork jungle that was nearly impenetrable, is now impossible.

I was warned (by Ijustwannateach, in fact) that my first year or two, teaching in Thailand, might be illegal. He was 100% right, in spite of my reasonable efforts to convince the old-boy schools to get with the 26th century. I can not imagine what it is like, to teach with a proper work permit, teacher's license, criminal background check, etc. I have no hope to ever know.

Oh, there are such animals, such farang teachers, roaming around in a few jungles like Bangkok, who are as legal as Thaksin Sh. ever was. They'd have a newcomer believe that staying legal is just a 90 minute trip down to the ministry offices once a year, in the university's chauffered car. Hah!

Newcomers: don't come to Thailand to teach. Don't even get on the airplane. Most of the Thai schools don't want you here, at least badly enough that they'll get off their chairs to help you become legal.

From what I can tell, the average school is as clueless, or hapless, or both, as most foreign teachers. However, the history most of them have of leaving these important bureaucratic issues (which are at least jointly their responsibility) unresolved, I have no doubt about their likely reaction for the short term: heads in the sand, hands over eyes, ears, and mouth, half-pretending to know nothing until disaster arrives.

I think the big collisions will start to occur when the worst-managed of the lot do their knee-jerk ritual firing at term-ends and then suddenly realise there's no one left to hire, or that those they do hire are uncertifable at one ministry or another. It's highly unlikely they will see this as something they will have to change their businesses over; they're much more likely to attempt to change the regulations back to the old impenetrable mess.

If the new regulations were PROPERLY IMPLEMENTED, POSSIBLE, and ENFORCED, they would actually help most of the better teachers in the long run- it would mean that the pool of legally hireable teachers would shrink, wages would rise, and schools would have to treat their teachers better, rather than throwing them away as if they could be replaced at Tesco (I liked that image, PB!) However, it's extremely unlikely that the number of Thais who will suffer from going ahead with realistic regulations (which is not even what we have now) would permit them to be implemented or revamped with a view towards making them possible (not to mention enforcement). They'll just throw the baby out with the bathwater in relief.

It is a rather sad comment that a recent meeting of the Phuket "protest" schools was attended by some of the worst and most dubious Bangkok schools and their representatives- all of which are threatened by any political move which threatens their ill-managed throw-away teacher management style. These are not the kinds of people any decent teacher or human being should want to find himself aligned with, and in fact our motives as teachers should be entirely different. Rather than asking them to scrap the good ideas behind some of the regulations (police checks, licenses, proper visas), they should be integrated in a clear and transparent way both to protect the teachers from dodgy schools and officials and to protect the schools (and children- it's all about the children, right?) from dodgy teachers; and these should be INTRODUCED IN A MANAGEABLE WAY so that everyone has time to adjust and the schools and teachers don't just throw up their hands and say (quite reasonably), "That's impossible, stupid!" That's the result the dodgy schools are hoping for, because business as usual was fine by them.

I'm not as bitter as PB because I did eventually find a legal roost here; but it took far too long and I wouldn't have gone through it if I'd known how it was going to be. I'm just lucky I insisted on finishing the process; lord knows what kind of mess I'd be in if I hadn't- well, actually, I can guess what kind of mess: the same kind of mess that hundreds or thousands of teachers without legal paperwork are in right now, the kind that so many of us have been in for years, unprotected and underpaid. It's time for that to change.

"Steven"

Well latest news in from several of my friends going through this process is that UK police reports are now required and that they have been basically told to go away and get one before applying for their non-imm B visa. They were originally told to get their police reports from the Bangkok police but that has now moved a goal post and it's back to your home country you must go. All of these guys are resident here in LOS and all of them recently got rejected from Penang for failing to have this police report.

If anyone is interested, I got my police report around August last year from the UK, it took about 8 weeks, cost me 10 pounds and all it said when it came back was "no police record found" and it was as non descript as you could get and no finger prints where required to obtain it either. But then again, i'm not here teaching English to kids so maybe all of this nonesense doesn't apply to me although my current employer did request this police record before extending my contract.

So, if anyone would like a genuine copy of a genuine UK police report to erhum maybe scan in and push through photoshop for a bit of creative engineering then you are more than welcome to have mine.

This post has been edited by Casanundra: 2007-01-05 15:51:54

That's what my money is on.

The demand for native-speaker teachers increases every year and it now looks just too pain-in-the-arse to become kosher.

Casanundra
What did you have to do to obtain the report in the uk? Just go to your local police station or something more? Do you think it's workable for a relative to obtain on your behalf and then send to Thailand?

From my earlier posting...


Cant DIY..gotta get your company to request....

Applicant’s Guide to the CRB's Disclosure Service

The Criminal Records Bureau (CRB), an executive agency of the Home Office, provides access to criminal record and other information to organisations in England and Wales through a service called Disclosure.

Its specific purpose is to help organisations make more informed decisions when recruiting people into positions of trust.

The Disclosure service is also available to other professional, licensing and regulatory bodies whose volunteers, employees and licensees are not necessarily in direct contact with the vulnerable, but still need to uphold the highest standards of professional performance and Disclosure can help improve these recruitment decisions as well.

Through the Disclosure service, organisations can provide greater protection for the vulnerable members of our society and afford greater protection to their customers, staff, volunteers and ultimately their organisation

http://www.crb.gov.uk/Default.aspx?page=1871


--------------------

wad some god the gif tae gi us

Putting aside your valid points about the lenghly process of getting through and into the system legally, you can also actually get a job here on a valid Non immigration O visa as well and many mistakingly think that the only visa that is valid for work in Thailand is the non imm B.

It was very simple. I downloaded the form off the Internet. Sent it off with a cheque for 10 pounds along with a certified copy of my passport page and voila, 6 weeks later I get the report back.

Easy peasy pudding and pie.

If I recall, the form allows someone to do it on your behalf back in the UK by proxy. Either way, you can only get this report by sending it in by mail and a visit to the police station itself would only serve the purpose of saving you a stamp and an envelope

As for the post by Rinrada, i'm sorry but that's not true unless the rules have changed since last August. What you just posted was not my actual experience of getting the police report and I most certainly did it myself.

This post has been edited by Casanundra: 2007-01-05 16:34:41

So, you didn't do the CRB thing?

Can you give a link to download the form? - thanks

I'm also quite lucky as the terrorist and drug offences I was sent to prison for happened in France and Germany so the British Police report will show I'm 'clean'. (sarcasm)

I'd also like the website. A very useful piece of paper to have in any situation.

This post has been edited by Robski: 2007-01-05 17:28:15

My place of work sorted my CRB out.All i did was fill in the usual crap(name,adresss,'i am not a criminal' etc) and provide proof of identity.I certainly couldn't have done it on my own though.As there were a couple of sections that my work had to fill in,they also paid the fee btw.I did this last month.

Maybe there are different types of CRB clearance?

Anyone know how this effects those already in the loop? I have my work permit (2 years), a teacher license was never issued to me (I believe that this will be needed to renew my contract). Will i also need to get a criminal record clearance check from the UK to renew the contract or is this only applicable to new visa applications?
Maybe we need two new pinned posts, one on requirements for those in the loop, and one for those who are thinking about teaching here for the first time.
Thanks in advance.

This thread's only 3 pages so far, and has been holding its own against the deluge of other threads recently opened (joke). Your issue is a interesting one, Boatabike, but so far have heard nothing from my own school or those who work for other schools on this issue- presumably the relevant Ministries may be logical enough to realise that if someone's worked here a few years, the most relevant police reports are the ones *here*. But if you hear otherwise, feel free to post here or start a new thread if you have any actual news. Right now everything still seems very speculative.

Whilst we're speculating and spreading rumours, here are some more. As I write this on Monday morning, it's rumoured that some higher-ups in the MFA may be telling their embassies and consulates to reverse the earlier requirements about police checks. And, that the special police office in Bangkok is for Thai citizens, not farang. And, that Ajarn Ponchasachakornakit doesn't know, anyway.

Americans refer to this as 'yanking my chain.' Thais enjoy yanking Yankees around. And Poms and Ozzies and Welshmen, too. Sometimes they yank our chains without even knowing it. "Oh, it's Monday morning, Deputy Under Secretary of Vice - let's issue some new, obscure, vague statement about education, or work permits, or the price of somtam in Wrethedburi..."

Does my criminal record have to be in the U.K.?

Can I commit a crime in the U.S. to qualify, too?

The rules are strict - home country only. Fortunate for Bin Laden who doesn't have a criminal record from his home country. He could come here and teach evil.

I been offered a teaching job, but I've turned it down.
Without going into details I would have been working on a false premise. I was encouraged to do so.
Nothing new in Thailand, but if the finger gets pointed it's me that loses out, so on principle I turned it down.
I would willingly do a criminal record check to show that I'm worthy of trust.
Why should I want to become a criminal to get employed in this country.
I'm leaving definately. I'll be back but not to teach.

This post has been edited by Robski: 2007-01-08 18:41:01

I don't think you can get one as a member of the public. I don't think that even organisations from other member EU states can get this information. I taught at a school in Belgium and also was given clearance (qualifications only) to teach in Dutch state schools. Niether country asked for a Criminal Check. I am sure if that service was available then they would have followed it up. There's a lot of BS being thrown around here. Then there's the person above who says you can do it by proxy....LOL It's highly sensitive information as you can imagine.

25/12/06 Thai consulate Savanaket Lao. Went to renew b visa was told no can do require background check UK & Thailand so came back on a 60 day t/visa.

Have e-mailed the Uk Embassy twice as to the process to get this NOTHING HASCOME BACK from BritEmbassy.
As I understand this comes under the Data Protection Act, all so understand difficult to obtain & at a cost as well + a letter from brit Embassy to confirm Uk background check I think that costs in the region on 2K Baht not sure though.
Anyone been down this road so asto point the way as Uk Ebassy don't seem to want to reply.

Paul.

If Your a Uk Res Steven U come under the 10 yr rule on crimes clear sheet (Lol).
Only the tax people have no limits to time as usual

usual Thai bollox: silly rules made by silly people who never checked the validity or possibility of their silly little 'notifications'. It won't work but for the next couple of weeks until they find a face saving way of forgetting this there will be confusion and maybe pain.