There are a number of people who write their name at the end of messages, I'll leave it to you to check out who. I didn't see any comments about not using names next to their posts. In the absence of clear rules I used the precedent, on that basis I thought it was reasonable to state names.

The absence or presence of names was not the major issue in most cases. But, so as not to lead this topic off track again: enough said.

ST

hi everyone
I am coming to thailand soon and i would like to learn thai, i wont to apply for the student ed visa.
I will be staying in udon thani with my wife, are there any schools close to this area or will i have to travel to bangkok once a week??
Also if i have to study in bangkok can i do two weeks of lessons in one week?
thankyou

I have just watched AUA on youtube. I find that their way of teaching is a big joke! You have 2 people speaking and joking in Thai, and no textbook, no english explanation. What is taught in class, 70 to 80 percent will be forgotton if you do not have a revision. In the end, what is learnt? Nothing or very minimal. well, I would rather watch the thai tv and save the money. I believe these students will benefit more learning from the cd themselves than the AUA way of teaching.

I think the most important thing to learn any languages, is to build up your vocab, and only through repetition, then you can instill it in your brain. Go to the internet and order some cd to learn by yourself, this will benefit a lot when you go for class. I think Thai for beginners and Thai for Intermediate learners are very good, I have learnt a lot from these cds myself. You can also find them in Bookazine bookshops.

So let me see if I understand you correctly; you watched the FREE videos on YouTube, and felt you didn't get any value from them? I'm a little lost, no value from something you got for free? Hmm, you're a tough sell, that's for sure.

Actually ONCE someone understands even a little thai the AUA classes (and for that matter their videos on YouTube) are an excellent way to increase a person's comprehension of spoken thai. Their YouTube site has quite a few different levels of videos. Perhaps you started with a level beyond your skill in understanding spoken thai.

I do concur with your assessment and think it is not a viable method to learn thai, especially if you go in 'cold' (knowing only two-word-tourist-thai). You must invest too many hours to get a good grip on the language before you start to see results. The fact there is no repetition, no questions, and no interaction are all negative things for my way of learning; but like I said, once you have a solid basic vocabulary, it can hone your listening skills no end.

It's certainly one of the cheapest schools to attend, and I've yet to see a school offering the flexibility in class times as AUA.

The teachers do seem dedicated to the ALG method, and try very hard to make the time spent in class entertaining, (if not all that educational).

This post has been edited by tod-daniels: 2009-10-30 15:00:57

Tod, it is indeed possible not to get any value for time spent doing something. Just because something is free does not mean there is any value in it. Some things we would not do even if they were free because we see no value in doing them. We even say sometimes "it was a total waste of time" or "a total waste of money".

If you cannot participate in a lesson what is the difference then between watching Thai TV or observing a lesson in which you cannot participate but still have to pay for? I also believe that this kind of teaching is a waste of time, perhaps not a joke, but not far from it. Like learning to play golf by watching videos without actually doing it.

In order to learn we need to get involved! I speak 4 languages among which 3 fluently and one well and understand a lot of yet another language but cannot speak it because I never was in an environment where I could actually practice speaking that language. None of the languages I speak I've learned just by listening. It goes against basics of language learning, ear, mouth, eyes and hand. That's the natural order.

This is my private post, nothing to do with my school if you guys don't mind me contributing.

This post has been edited by macwalen: 2009-10-30 18:56:35

If you cannot participate in a lesson what is the difference then between watching Thai TV or observing a lesson in which you cannot participate but still have to pay for? I also believe that this kind of teaching is a waste of time, perhaps not a joke, but not far from it. Like learning to play golf by watching videos without actually doing it.


Finally, Mr Mcwalen has started to talk some sense here.

You see the point, what is the difference from watching thai tv than attending the AUA course?

No matter how dedicated and enthusiastic and humorous the teachers are, it does not really help much for the learning part. Now here it is not dedication, but the system itself is a big failure!!

No matter how, I think the most important part is the system, then comes the dedication, but somehow they have failed to realise and reverse the process.

So Tod, If this course is offered free to me, I would not have attended too, as I have mentioned, I have benefited much more learning through cds and from internet too.

anyone?????

Innercircle, I had done a google search after I originally saw your question. The only thing I came up with was possibly AUA in Udon after I saw a posting on another forum (TV rules state URLs to other forums aren't allowed). But, do a google search for 'udon aua thai classes' and you'll see the link. However, I checked their web site and didn't see anything regarding it. Also, nothing about ED visa. So i didn't post a response to you ; but, now you have it

You also might want to contact Udon Thani Rajabhat University: www.udru.ac.th Maybe they can tell you who might provide classes (with possible ED visa)

Traveling from Udon to bangkok every week might be kind of a drag. I hope you find something that works for you.

JJ

I got some minor value out of these.

I am an indifferent Thai speaker, but with the videos at Level 5, because the subject matter was so restricted and the irritating actress used a lot of repetition and simple vocabulary, I was able to understand pretty much everything that was going on. I didn't learn much new, but it improved my listening skills a little, but then again, so does watching Thai TV.

I would never consider being taught like that -- it's too easy to switch off and hide behind your textbook. I think a crucial element in learning is being challenged; it's not comfortable, but it gets results.

Hello.

Could people tell me what they think of AAA vs Walen for a beginner?

I am in Bangkok and have narrowed my options down to these two (if anyone knows any other that meet my requirements please let me know).

AAA
Pros: month at a time, 5 days a week, during the day. I like the schedule of this as I think doing 5 days a week for a month would get me off to a good start (or overwhelm me?). Quite cheap.
Cons: 5 days a week. I am doing a bit of ad-hoc work and not sure if something will crop up during the month and I'd have to miss a class. Probably wouldnt be able to do a second month as will be working more then.

Walen:
Pros: two evenings a week (this is the one I will do if I do Walen).
Cons: not as immersive as the AAA schedule, bit more expensive.

Ideally I am looking for a course that runs on Monday, Tuesday and/or Thursday daytimes (9-5ish).

Thanks

Do any of these schools offer short intensive courses? Like a 7 day intensive course?

I posted about these 60 hour/6000baht programs offered by many schools in this thread;
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Language-School-t309015.html
The schools that teach the Union or Unity based method of thai (of which AAA is one) all use transcription or representing thai sounds with the english alphabet. There are many of these schools out there ALL descended from the first Union school. It was developed and designed to teach thai to foreign missionaries who were sent to thailand to convert the natives from buddhism to (insert the religion of your choice here ). Most of the owners of the current schools were teachers long ago at the first Union school and then left to open their own schools. Sadly because it one of the older methods, their text books are very dated.

If you are NOT completely dedicated to spending the time in class learning, you're gonna wash out. The classes go very fast and are quite intensive as far as interaction with the teachers and drills you do with other students. The upside is they are cheap to go to, and you get a great value for your money IF you can process all the information. The down side is; miss a class, forfeit your hours, wash out of the program before it's finished and lose both your time and money.

I attended Walen School for a year and have all their books. In the 4 hours a week you're planning on attending I doubt you’ll ever learn to speak anything close to thai. You just might learn to speak phrases out of the textbook like a trained parrot, MAYBE. I do think the Walen School’s method has value, IF you can already read some thai and want to increase your reading vocabulary.

The books are simply translated versions of the Callan Method of teaching english; nearly page for page, word for word. Unfortunately the method doesn't concentrate on "high value words" (words you're going to use over and over), nor on "frozen phrases" (combinations of words that you're going to say over and over).

As I said, I think there is value in the method IF you can read some already, but I've yet to meet a person who started attending that school "cold" (neither knowing how to read or speak more than "two-word-tourist-thai) and after a year's attendance had anything resembling competency or coherency in either spoken or reading thai. I have however met more "trained parrots" than I care to count .

But hey don’t take my word for it; If you would like to talk to current and/or former students (or the teachers) to get their take on it, gimme a P/M and I’ll see if I can’t put you in touch with some of them.

Very good point. I once knew an Australian woman who lived here for several years and spoke beautiful Thai. She began as a university exchange-student, and then worked in the NGO world, but most of her friends were Thai, and she always spoke with them in Thai. She said she found it remarkable how many farangs she had encountered who diligently attended language schools, but couldn't speak Thai worth squat. Her conclusion was that school attendance, vis-a-vis the rest of their existence here, were pretty much mutually exclusive pursuits. "With their Thai friends and colleagues, they always ending up speaking English after a couple of perfunctory Thai phrases or words," she said.

I don't know many farangs myself, but that sounded like a reasonable explanation. I have observed lots of farangs who approach Thai people with a greeting, and perhaps another phrase or two designed to establish their cleverness, but then they immediately go running back to the warmth and safety of the English-language womb. I suspect that is the norm. As you say, a trained parrot can't carry on a real conversation, no matter how insubstantial that conversation probably would be.

Seems to me that a farang who is serious about Thai language, should try to deal with immigration officials, bank officers, utility companies, landlords, dentists, airlines, etc., only in Thai language. Even (or especially) over the telephone.

If you can't do that, then you can't speak Thai.

Yes, but what you're describing is just the relative confidence of the two speakers in any given situation. The person who is least confident about their foreign language use (either the farang speaking thai or the thai speaking English) will follow the lead of the more confident one. This is natural and part of the process of learning. It doesn't need to be sneered at.

Surely you need to learn some Thai before doing that? Where is the best place/way to do so?

A comment on "Walen".
I presently attend Walen - private lessons at 750 baht per lesson - I have 8 more lessons to complete - but will have gone through the total book within the next 2 lesson.
I feel the method has merit - but the book was obviously translated by an individual who does not speak proper English - nor Thai - nor has any experience in teaching. There are may mistakes in translation and usage in English and Thai in the teaching material/book.
After completing the first book YOU WILL NOT be able to ask someone for his/her name age etc etc.. In other words YOU WILL NOT be able to have the simplest of conversations in Thai.
While the method has merit the book is not user friendly and will not teach you basic communications on any level - but you MAY BE able to read street signs.

If you interested to learn Thai - Berlitz in the same building charges the same prices (private 750 baht/lesson) - but is very professional with excellent teaching material. I have only talked to them so far - and will continue to talk to other schools - before deciding where to continue.

If your only interest is to obtain a student visa - Walen may be good for you - you will not even have to attend class.

If you're going down the 'private lessons' route you can get a lot better deal than 750B/hr. Try AAA at ChidLom (google search 'thai language' and you'll find AAA at the top of the page) - excellent teachers, professional set-up, dedicated to seeing their students succeed, last check 400B/hr (tho' that was nearly two years ago now, but I'd be very surprised if it has gone up to anything more than 500B.). They'll take you from beginner right through to prepping for the gov't exam if you want to go that far. If learning one-on-one (private lesson), you also avoid the 'in at the deep end' that others have mentioned that goes along with the 5-days a week intensive classroom sessions.

This post has been edited by SoftWater: 2009-11-06 00:10:48

Please note that there is no such thing as a 1-year student visa (as far as the student is concerned).

It works like this. The school applies for a "one-year visa" on your behalf.

What you as a student receive is a 3-month visa, extendable every subsequent 3 months (1900Bt, and must be supported by fresh documentation from your school each time), up to a maximum of a year. You don't have to leave the country, just go to Jaengwattana to extend as well as doing your 90-day reporting.

So don't think you can pay an upfront school fee and relax in Thailand for the next year, it doesn't work that way. It may well be that some schools don't care whether you turn up to any classes, once you have paid your money up front. At the very least, you will need a letter from them every 3 months to confirm you are a student.

Just an FYI to the poster known as RickBradford...

There are INDEED one year multiple re-entry ED visas. I have personally seen 3 of them that fellow students had. They were issued from Thai Consulates; one was from the US, one from the UK, and one from an EU country. They used the paperwork from the thai language school they had enrolled in as documentation and were issued Non-O Type ED Multi Entry Visas. While it is true you are unlikely to get more than a 90 day single entry ED visa from any thai consulate in a neighboring country, you can get the year one from the US, UK, or EU pretty much for the asking.

Also FYI, the school does NOT apply for you, nor do anything other than supply you with documentation that you have indeed enrolled in a thai language school for a year's term and that they are indeed a Ministry of Education approved school. You do the rest yourself, outside the country at an embassy or consulate of your choice.

The visa I mentioned earlier was valid for a year. Unfortunately with this type of visa there a maximum permission to stay of 90 days in country BEFORE you must "run for the border" to receive another 90 day stamp. This can be done right up to the last day the visa is valid for, resulting in an approximate 15 month stay. No trips to Changwattana, no extensions, and it is multi-reentry so come and go all you want.

The 90 day Single Entry ED Visa which most students get in neighboring S/E Asian countries at the thai consulates do indeed need to be extended every 90 days with documentation from the school, and the 1900 baht extension fee. <- So you got something right in your post

Yet another FYI, rumor has it; some schools are giving you ALL the paperwork for your entire year's worth of extensions at one time. This effectively puts the burden on the student to keep track of when they need to apply for their next extension, and quite effectively removes any liability from the school if the student misses their extension. The added benefit for a less than motivated student is; they need not even attend class after they get their paperwork. Then again, I started this statement with "rumor has it", so take it for what you will.......

(edited for sa-pelling)

This post has been edited by tod-daniels: 2009-11-06 19:35:18

^
OK, I will accept your amendments.

But the "one-year" visa you mention requires a border run every 90 days, am I right? To me, that seems worse than being able to stay here and extend at Jaengwattana for 1900Bt a pop.

My idea of a 'one-year visa' (as seen on this site), is a visa which allows you to stay here for a year with just 90-day reporting to be done. No border runs or extensions. But that is not possible, it seems.

Semantics, perhaps, but I would suggest that the Thai school does indeed apply for the visa on my behalf; they write to the Ministry of Education and say "this person is studying here, please accept this application and supporting documentation as genuine, and send us an approval letter which he can show to an overseas consulate."

Or am I wrong again?

This post has been edited by RickBradford: 2009-11-06 20:08:18

Correct, as I said in the earlier post the Non-O Type-ED One Year Multi-Entry visa is limited to a 90 day stay and you do border run to get another 90 days (current cost right now about 1900-2200 depending on the provider of the run), so it's a wash financially.

Actually it is possible (although it seems like it was an anomaly). Macwalen would know better about why or how it happened. There were a couple students who attended his Pattaya school and went to extend their initial 90 day ED visa at Jomtien Immigrations. For some strange reason, they were given a year long "permitted to stay" stamp, even though everyone else is just getting the normal 90 day stamps. I did see a couple scans he posted of students passports with the year long stamp.

Most private thai language schools cannot get you anything more than a 90 day initial ED visa and extensions of stay for the rest of the year. The same cannot be said for actual colleges here in thailand. People who come to continue their education routinely do get the year visa with only 90 day reporting to be done. They are however not just studying the thai language but working on their Bachelors, Masters, etc

I'll write the last part off to semantics as well..

Please be advised that I do write very bluntly, very cynically, and very heavy-handed.
No disrespect of persons living or deceased is intended.

No offence has been taken by any living or deceased persons that I know.

I think the exchange may have clarified matters and hence benefited present and potential future students.

Does anyone out there attend the thai language school called Baan Phassaa Thai (Thai Language House) which is located on the 14th floor of the Saranjai Mansion?

Here's their website; http://www.thailanguagehouse.com/

Just wondering if anyone has attended or can give some info. ..

If you are so kind please see me for a consultation. It is very strange that after book one you cannot ask a person's age or name. That is indeed hard to believe. Perhaps you missed a few pages in book 1 dealing with this. I will be happy to show you where it is in your book.

Also can you give specific examples of what is wrong with the content of the book? What are those mistakes? The book has only translations into English, it is totally in Thai so there should not be a lot of problems with the usage of English.

After knowing 720 words you will not be able to have the simplest conversation in Thai? Are you serious? Anyway, thank you for your feedback and please see me to have a chat about your progress. I am indeed saddened that you make the kind of statements you make.

You made quite a hostile post and if this is indeed how you feel I will be happy to offer you extra lessons as I give guarantee on my lessons, of course you need to tell me why the lessons were not worth your money and what the teacher did wrong. My guess is that you struggle with the Thai alphabet, it can be discouraging at first and initially it takes a little time but later makes learning Thai incredibly fast. Also the objective of learning the language is not only to learn a few simple expressions but to learn how the language works so you can later build on solid foundations.

Walen School - please tell the truth
www.thaiwalen.com

This post has been edited by macwalen: 2009-11-07 00:40:33