A local coffee shop owner has offered to teach my son how to make coffee well - my son is 17 and would love to learn this as it would help him when he returns to his passport country... question is this... if he is learning how to make coffee in a public place like a coffee shop would that be seen as working? Would he need a permit? He would not be paid for it at all, just learning.

Unfortunately 'yes' training is considered work. So is just signing a piece of paper in connection with work, like signing for receipt of goods at a place of work.
How about a bit of after hours training while the place is quiet and shut.
Regards Bojo

i am sure he needs one. if i interpret Thai law correctly i need a work permit to have legally sex with my wife.

My guess would be yes, I was told back in 2004 that a WP was required to do volunteer work for the Vitcim of the Tsunami vitcim, you figure it.

Naam, you Got one it's call a Marriage Certificate, "Pun Intended" I'm sure you saw that one coming.

..and she regularly gives tea money to the clerk to deny the permit!

Come on......somebody showing someone how to make a coffee, and need a work permit ...get a grip.....yes the laws are strict but not stupid......I built my house alongside the workers, didnt need a work permit for that, they taught me how to build Thai style, that therefor was training for 7 days a week for 6 months...and befor you say anything the immigration office were aware I was doing it as we had quite a long conversation about the design etc...

He would be working and require a work permit. There is a dispention for people who are doing an intern as part of their education, but that would require that they study at a recognised Thai institution and I beleive they need to get a waiver. But I'm not sure how that works or where to get the waiver.

JEEZ...someone is showing the guy how to make a cup of coffee...get real!!!!! W/P my a*se

Your arse, indeed. The fact that hundreds of farang get away with no WP does not change the law.

According to Thai labor law, the definition of work is "exerting effort" and "employing knowledge", "whether or not for wages or other benefits", and is based on the individual, not employment as in some other countries. This is typical of Thai law -- remaining vague, and leaving flexible judgement to officials, thereby eliminating legal loopholes and haggling.

actually i saw more coming now i'm a bit disappointed.

Immigration has absolutely nothing to do with the labour department.

You would need a work permit to help build your house, as you are exerting physical effort, irrespective of whether you are paying yourself or not, however, one would not be granted as that particular profession is on the restricted list.

If someone had complained that you were working without a work permit, the labour department would show up, you would probably have to pay a substancial fine and/or face deportation.

and so is you wife?

So according to your above post, I am not able to cut my lawn, clean my car, or even wash up...they are all restricted areas of labour....absolute rubbish.......fancy a cup ot tea, think I better call the Labour office befor I make it in case I face deportation.....

If it is "exerting effort" AND "employing knowledge" then Naam should be able to get away without the work permit.

People come to Thaliand and do a cooking class...do they need a work permit for training, people come and do their PADI cert..do they need a work permit...people come and train for massage, do they need a work permit, people come and train in Thai boxing, do they need a work permit...the list is endless....a cup of coffee against the above is nothing

" TV Quote 100 Award won by: Naam "

This is exactly what i was thinking when i started reading this thread. I mean..there are soo many courses on offer, how is that figured into Thai law? (I am not being facetious)

Thai cooking classes go for half or one day and the product of the work is consumed by the people doing it. I think the government would interpret this as not needing a work permit. If you however went to a hotel to learn cooking and this consisted of working in the kitchen and producing food which was sold even if instruction is given I think they would consider this work.

The coffee shop is probably not going to show the person how to make his coffee but practice this by having him work doing this for a couple of days or even for a morning producing coffee for others...this is work.

this is a standard way people learn here. I recall I once said to my ex wife I liked a certain dish and she went to a resturaunt that specialised in it and worked a morning paying for the privalege and was taught how to make it.

If he is serving customers then yes .If he is paying the guy to train him with no "customers' involved then no.
Naam is correct though under the wording of the law.I know of a guy who has just been charged with singing at his own resort.They claim that the fact he was entertaining people by having a sing song on the stage constitutes work.Think about it, when you go to a bar/karaoke you pay for the privilege, they are arguing by singing he was taking away work from a Thai. Ridiculous, but under the wording of the law correct.
I pick up my daughters from school. Under the wording of this law I am doing something a Thai could be paid to do and it could be construed as breaking this law.

IMO the point of making the "definition" of "work" completely vague & all encomposing, is not so that it be enforced equally accross the board, more so to leave absolutely no area for argument when a labour officer decides he wants to enforce the law.

The area with work permits that I have a real problem with is that if you are lucky enough to be have been awarded a work permit in the first place, you may only perform the tasks specified &, within the area specified in the document.

So, in other words, if you have been employed as a factory design consultant, with a work permit for such activities (this is a true occurence from about seven years ago at a building site in the Rungsit area), and the labour department turns up and sees you performing some manual labour, such as moving building materials out of the car parking area, they can (and did in this instance) fine the individual, deport the individual, and fine the company for allowing this to occur, even though he had a permit to work in Thailand.

On vacations, I like visiting my friend's farm, and end up usually helping with the chores. In danger of deportation, do you think?

If you are doing all the work you are doing it wrong IMHO. It is your wife who should need the work permit.

How difficult is it to make a cup of coffee ?

Buy the coffee maker and try google for instructions on how to do it .

All you need to know about the subject is here:
http://www.cockeyed.com/lessons/coffee/coffee.shtml

This post has been edited by balo: 2009-07-09 10:46:40