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Does anyone have any examples of การ used with anything but a verb?

ITR

yes, but it's loong's second usage of การ, namely as "action, task, work, job, activity".

การเมือง politics

การเกษตร agriculture

hey, can any dissect กรรมการ (committee member, umpire) for me? is การ being used in yet another way here? for example, to designate a person, to mean 'official' or something else? i also see นักการ (a clerk? office boy?) here and there, what is an office boy a นัก of?

perhaps they don't bear dissection, but i'd be interested to know what you think. thanks!

Cheers Aanon,

you know for the life of me I couldnt think of any, but now after your examples there are heaps.

Not sure what you mean by dissect กรรมการ.

Do you want the literal breakdown?

If so การ by itself is "work or job" and กรรม means "doing"

How committee member comes from it, I don't know. I always thought that กรรมการ mean't "committe member" only and than other words stemmed from it.

For example,

referee or umpire is actualy กรรมการตัดสิน

or

The committee is คณะกรรมการ

ITR

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so, after all that, i'm thinking ความ for adjectives and การ for verbs. but not sure if that covers everything and/or if there are exceptions. anyone?

ผมไม่เเก่งในเรื่องการกลับบ้านตรงเวลา pom mai gang nai ruang garn glab barn drong welar.

See this is where I am confused because in my example above I would say

"I am not very good at coming home on time" I can not think of how else this sentence could be used as without putting "ing" on the end of the verb.

or here is an example of using การ and ความ in the same sentence.

ผมมีความรับผิดชอบในดานการติดต่อกับ...........

I have the responsibilty in contacting ........

The only rule I know about ความ is that if you use it you must use มี with ความ

as in I have the responsibilty

or you can take มีความ away as in

ผมรับผิดชอบในดานการติดต่อกับ...........

I am responsible for contacting ..........

So whilst ความ adds -ness (nouns from adjectives) like happiness, sadness etc

or -ity (nouns from adjectives) such as probability, possibility etc

or -tion / -sion (nouns from verbs) like admission, information,

or -ance / -ence (nouns from adjectives and verbs) importance, appearance

there are a couple more but I wont go on..

การ just changes it a noun such as this example

ขาดการติดต่อ to lose contact with

It is always like this no "ing" except when either ในดาน or ในเรื่อง

are added before การ I am sure that this is the case.

Please tell me your thoughts.

Cheers ITR

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so, after all that, i'm thinking ความ for adjectives and การ for verbs. but not sure if that covers everything and/or if there are exceptions. anyone?

ผมไม่เเก่งในเรื่องการกลับบ้านตรงเวลา pom mai gang nai ruang garn glab barn drong welar.

See this is where I am confused because in my example above I would say

"I am not very good at coming home on time" I can not think of how else this sentence could be used as without putting "ing" on the end of the verb.

or here is an example of using การ and ความ in the same sentence.

ผมมีความรับผิดชอบในดานการติดต่อกับ...........

I have the responsibilty in contacting ........

The only rule I know about ความ is that if you use it you must use มี with ความ

as in I have the responsibilty

or you can take มีความ away as in

ผมรับผิดชอบในดานการติดต่อกับ...........

I am responsible for contacting ..........

So whilst ความ adds -ness (nouns from adjectives) like happiness, sadness etc

or -ity (nouns from adjectives) such as probability, possibility etc

or -tion / -sion (nouns from verbs) like admission, information,

or -ance / -ence (nouns from adjectives and verbs) importance, appearance

there are a couple more but I wont go on..

การ just changes it a noun such as this example

ขาดการติดต่อ to lose contact with

It is always like this no "ing" except when either ในดาน or ในเรื่อง

are added before การ I am sure that this is the case.

Please tell me your thoughts.

Cheers ITR

hi ITR,

ok, a couple of thoughts in response to your post:

the sentence about coming home on time: i think you're spot on with the translation, 'ing' should be used. i'm not sure why this makes you confused, though. can you explain a bit more?

you said "The only rule I know about ความ is that if you use it you must use มี with ความ

as in I have the responsibilty"

umm, in that example sentence you would use มี but it just depends on what you are actually saying. for example, you don't need มี in the following sentence:

การทอดปลาเป็นความรับผิดชอบของเล็ก

frying (the) fish was lek's responsibility

sorry i also have to disagree with:

"It is always like this no "ing" except when either ในดาน or ในเรื่อง

are added before การ I am sure that this is the case."

ในด้าน or ในเรื่อง (in the area of, on the topic of, and similar) will normally be followed by an abstract noun (dancing, design, cooking, music, composition, education, fishing) but, as you can see, these abstract nouns may or may not having 'ing' on the end.

normally, the abstract noun will be translated the same (dancing, design, cooking, music, composition, education, fishing) whether or not there is a ในด้าน or ในเรื่อง out the front.

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my apologies to everyone if i am using the term 'abstract noun' incorrectly, i hope you know what i am trying to say, though :o .

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ในด้าน or ในเรื่อง (in the area of, on the topic of, and similar) will normally be followed by an abstract noun (dancing, design, cooking, music, composition, education, fishing) but, as you can see, these abstract nouns may or may not having 'ing' on the end.

normally, the abstract noun will be translated the same (dancing, design, cooking, music, composition, education, fishing) whether or not there is a ในด้าน or ในเรื่อง out the front.

Sorry, but I cannot see that dancing, cooking and fishing are abstract nouns - surely they are verbs?

often a verb is changed to an abstracct noun by adding ...ess to the end, although not usually that simple

Happy Happiness

Clean cleanliness

Sad sadness

Blind blindness

etc

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often a verb is changed to an abstracct noun by adding ...ess to the end, although not usually that simple

Happy Happiness

Clean cleanliness

Sad sadness

Blind blindness

Happy, clean, sad and blind are adjectives... (although clean and blind can be verbs as well, as in "He cleans his room every week." and "She was blinded by the light.")

Dancing, cooking and fishing are called 'gerunds' or 'verbal nouns' in English. While based on verbs, they occupy the same spaces in a sentence as a noun would.

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so, after all that, i'm thinking ความ for adjectives and การ for verbs. but not sure if that covers everything and/or if there are exceptions. anyone?

ผมไม่เเก่งในเรื่องการกลับบ้านตรงเวลา pom mai gang nai ruang garn glab barn drong welar.

See this is where I am confused because in my example above I would say

"I am not very good at coming home on time" I can not think of how else this sentence could be used as without putting "ing" on the end of the verb.

or here is an example of using การ and ความ in the same sentence.

ผมมีความรับผิดชอบในดานการติดต่อกับ...........

I have the responsibilty in contacting ........

The only rule I know about ความ is that if you use it you must use มี with ความ

as in I have the responsibilty

or you can take มีความ away as in

ผมรับผิดชอบในดานการติดต่อกับ...........

I am responsible for contacting ..........

So whilst ความ adds -ness (nouns from adjectives) like happiness, sadness etc

or -ity (nouns from adjectives) such as probability, possibility etc

or -tion / -sion (nouns from verbs) like admission, information,

or -ance / -ence (nouns from adjectives and verbs) importance, appearance

there are a couple more but I wont go on..

การ just changes it a noun such as this example

ขาดการติดต่อ to lose contact with

It is always like this no "ing" except when either ในดาน or ในเรื่อง

are added before การ I am sure that this is the case.

Please tell me your thoughts.

Cheers ITR

hi ITR,

ok, a couple of thoughts in response to your post:

the sentence about coming home on time: i think you're spot on with the translation, 'ing' should be used. i'm not sure why this makes you confused, though. can you explain a bit more?

you said "The only rule I know about ความ is that if you use it you must use มี with ความ

as in I have the responsibilty"

umm, in that example sentence you would use มี but it just depends on what you are actually saying. for example, you don't need มี in the following sentence:

การทอดปลาเป็นความรับผิดชอบของเล็ก

frying (the) fish was lek's responsibility

sorry i also have to disagree with:

"It is always like this no "ing" except when either ในดาน or ในเรื่อง

are added before การ I am sure that this is the case."

ในด้าน or ในเรื่อง (in the area of, on the topic of, and similar) will normally be followed by an abstract noun (dancing, design, cooking, music, composition, education, fishing) but, as you can see, these abstract nouns may or may not having 'ing' on the end.

normally, the abstract noun will be translated the same (dancing, design, cooking, music, composition, education, fishing) whether or not there is a ในด้าน or ในเรื่อง out the front.

Aanon, thanks for picking that up. I did not explain myself very well there. What I meant to say was that if you use มี you would use ความ and if you dont use มี than there is no need.

Cheers for that.. :o

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ในด้าน or ในเรื่อง (in the area of, on the topic of, and similar) will normally be followed by an abstract noun (dancing, design, cooking, music, composition, education, fishing) but, as you can see, these abstract nouns may or may not having 'ing' on the end.

normally, the abstract noun will be translated the same (dancing, design, cooking, music, composition, education, fishing) whether or not there is a ในด้าน or ในเรื่อง out the front.

Whilst I agree with you on ในด้าน (in the area of / in terms of) I would only use this if the sentence started with ในด้าน or ด้าน

For example, ด้านความต้องการมีความรู้ ความเข้าใจเกี่ยวกับการจัดการเรียนการสอน .... etc In terms of having the knowledge and understanding to be oraganised at teaching..... etc

My point is as per my example, both times การ is used I have used them with only verbs and I can only use them in a sentence when I add "ing" to the end of the verb.

I can not see any other time การ can be used unless with a verb.

you cant say การปัญหา you have to use it with a verb like การแก้ไขปัญหา

IMO I think the การ when used in words such as

การเมือง politics

การเกษตร agriculture

isnt the same การ. sure it is the same spelling but it doesnt carry the same meaning or as recently learnt ( อีกนัยยะหนึ่ง), its just a noun (one word) and การ doesnt make it "the task of the city" etc it is just a word (noun) like คน so I dont think the 2 can be compared.

IMO

ITR :o

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I think what you are trying to say ITR, is that การ is not a free morpheme when used combined with nouns, whereas it is a free morpheme when combined with verbs, i.e. you can place it in front of any verb at any time and the result will be a correct word, but you cannot place it in front of any noun and still get a correct new word.

It may have once been a free morpheme judging from การเมือง and การเกษตร, but in present day Thai it is not...

Either way, the best translation of an expression and its form and function in an exclusive source language context can often be different things. A good translation relays the correct ideas and intended message successfully for speakers of the target language; it is not a word-for-word rendering of the source text.

I am speculating, but the fact that we have a word which ends with ร could mean it is a loan word - native Thai words, unless their spelling has been adapted, do not end with ร. Perhaps in the original language (Khmer, Sanskrit?), the word can create new noun + noun combinations as well as noun + verb combinations, but when borrowed into Thai this ability was lost?

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I think what you are trying to say ITR, is that การ is not a free morpheme when used combined with nouns, whereas it is a free morpheme when combined with verbs, i.e. you can place it in front of any verb at any time and the result will be a correct word, but you cannot place it in front of any noun and still get a correct new word.

It may have once been a free morpheme judging from การเมือง and การเกษตร, but in present day Thai it is not...

Either way, the best translation of an expression and its form and function in an exclusive source language context can often be different things. A good translation relays the correct ideas and intended message successfully for speakers of the target language; it is not a word-for-word rendering of the source text.

I am speculating, but the fact that we have a word which ends with ร could mean it is a loan word - native Thai words, unless their spelling has been adapted, do not end with ร. Perhaps in the original language (Khmer, Sanskrit?), the word can create new noun + noun combinations as well as noun + verb combinations, but when borrowed into Thai this ability was lost?

Thanks Meadish. Thats exactly what I was trying to say. Where were you 10 posts ago? :o

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I have another question as to the usage of สิ่ง over อัน

ไม่พอใจในสิ่งที่ตัวเองชอบ ( I am not satisfied with myself)

My question is as per this example or others with สิ่ง over อัน why is it that you use สิ่ง for people etc but not อัน. You can not say ไม่พอใจในอันที่ตัวเองชอบ

Whilst I understand both, I didnt learn Thai formaly so I have only ever had it explained to me in Thai and its still not that clear.

I know they are both classifiers but was is the difference?

cheers ITR :o

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I have another question as to the usage of สิ่ง over อัน

ไม่พอใจในสิ่งที่ตัวเองชอบ ( I am not satisfied with myself)

My question is as per this example or others with สิ่ง over อัน why is it that you use สิ่ง for people etc but not อัน. You can not say ไม่พอใจในอันที่ตัวเองชอบ

Whilst I understand both, I didnt learn Thai formaly so I have only ever had it explained to me in Thai and its still not that clear.

I know they are both classifiers but was is the difference?

cheers ITR :o

hi ITR,

often the difference between สิ่ง and อัน can be similar to the difference between "thing" and "one" in sentences like this:

i'm not satisfied with the things i made

i'm not satisfied with the one(s) i made

the thing i believe is that....

the one i believe is that....

สิ่งนี้ this thing

อันนี้ this one

ไม่พอใจในสิ่งที่ตัวเองชอบ

i would read this as "i'm not satisfied with the things i like" or "i'm not satisfied with my preferences". it's a strange thing to say, and i wonder whether maybe it's not quite what you meant to say. here are some similar sentences which could come up though:

ไม่พอใจในสิ่ง/อันที่ตัวเองมีอยู่

i'm not satisfied with the things/one i have at present

ไม่พอใจในสิ่ง/อันที่ตัวเองสร้างขึ้นมา

i'm not satisfied with the thing/one i have created

all the best.

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ไม่พอใจในสิ่งที่ตัวเองชอบ

I'm not exactly sure of what you are saying here. I would say it meant "I am not satisfied with my likes" As Aanon posted. It's another case where the thai language uses a lot of extra words that they would not use in everyday speech, I think

I wonder, though is it better to Say I'm not proud of myself using

สมใจ sŏm jai

My Thai phrasing is about equivalent to a Thai 2 year-old's, so

ไม่สมใจตัวเอง That is how I would say it, but maybe not grammatically correct. Please tell me how it should be said because I'm no too สมใจ of my Language skills :o

Does adding ชอบ to ตัวเอง alter the meaning in some way?

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ไม่พอใจในสิ่งที่ตัวเองชอบ

I'm not exactly sure of what you are saying here. I would say it meant "I am not satisfied with my likes" As Aanon posted. It's another case where the thai language uses a lot of extra words that they would not use in everyday speech, I think

I wonder, though is it better to Say I'm not proud of myself using

สมใจ sŏm jai

My Thai phrasing is about equivalent to a Thai 2 year-old's, so

ไม่สมใจตัวเอง That is how I would say it, but maybe not grammatically correct. Please tell me how it should be said because I'm no too สมใจ of my Language skills :o

Does adding ชอบ to ตัวเอง alter the meaning in some way?

No Loong I just used a bad example. I dont know why I added ชอบ on the end. I was thinking of 2 or so sentences at once and didnt check it before I posted. without the chob ชอบ on the end it would have been, I am not satisfied with myself. (but still not a great example).

I should have used an example like

ผมไม่ชอบในสิ่งที่คุณพูด

Probably would have been better.

:D

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Just a few problems I have when I translate Thai into English. I understand the sentences when I read them but I ofetn have problems choosing the correct words when trying to write them out into English.

for example ข้อมูลการศึกษาของนักศึกษา ....... komuun garn suksar kong naksuksar .....

Garn always confuses me as to whether to add ing to the verb.

Like would this be "Students that are studying data" or "students that study data" or "The data that is being studied by students"

As you can see it is usually the adding of การ that confuses me. I know when to add it when I speak and write Thai its just when I want to translate it to English that I get confused at times.

Any help or rules to remember would be appreciated.

Cheers ITR :o

I could be wrong ( I often am)

ข้อมูลการศึกษาของนักศึกษา

I would seperate this ข้อมูล (การศึกษาของนักศึกษา )

การศึกษาของนักศึกษา Education (Noun) of Student -in other words -"Student's Education", the object of the sentence (I think, grammar is not my strong point)

ข้อมูล Data , Information

Information (data, details) relating to the Student's Education.

So could it be what we English call "School Report"?

Where did you read this phrase In The Rai?

ข้อมูลการศึกษาของนักศึกษานานาชาติในสถาบัน ไมสามาถค้นหาไดในเมืองไทย

This is the full phrase I used for my example. I have it my book but don't know where it came from (source). It would be a while ago when I wrote it in there.

That is why it confuses me a little as I would translate this to

ข้อมูลการศึกษาของนักศึกษานานาชาติในสถาบัน ไมสามาถค้นหาไดในเมืองไทย

"The information studied from the international students in the institute could not be found in Thailand."

ITR

I'm assuming that you have a few typos in there,so think it is ข้อมูลการศึกษาของนักศึกษานานาชาติในสถาบัน ไม่สามารถค้นหาได้ในเมืองไทย

and I would say that it means " In Thailand, it is not (or has not been) possible to research data relating to the education of international (or foreign) students in institutes."

Incidently, another way to say research is วิจัย (verb) adding การ to the front makes การวิจัย research (Noun) :D so another example of การ

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often a verb is changed to an abstracct noun by adding ...ess to the end, although not usually that simple

Happy Happiness

Clean cleanliness

Sad sadness

Blind blindness

Happy, clean, sad and blind are adjectives... (although clean and blind can be verbs as well, as in "He cleans his room every week." and "She was blinded by the light.")

Dancing, cooking and fishing are called 'gerunds' or 'verbal nouns' in English. While based on verbs, they occupy the same spaces in a sentence as a noun would.

Sorry, you]re absolutely right there, what chance do I have with Thai when I can't get to grips with English grammar :o I have never heard of "gerunds", but I think that I understand now.

One thing I do find very strange, in English we will say "I am happy" and the Thai word for happy is สุข, a verb. You never hear anyone say ผมสุข, it's always มีความสุข "I have happiness". I've never understood why.

ไม่พอใจในสิ่งที่ตัวเองชอบ

I'm not exactly sure of what you are saying here. I would say it meant "I am not satisfied with my likes" As Aanon posted. It's another case where the thai language uses a lot of extra words that they would not use in everyday speech, I think

I wonder, though is it better to Say I'm not proud of myself using

สมใจ sŏm jai

My Thai phrasing is about equivalent to a Thai 2 year-old's, so

ไม่สมใจตัวเอง That is how I would say it, but maybe not grammatically correct. Please tell me how it should be said because I'm no too สมใจ of my Language skills :D

Does adding ชอบ to ตัวเอง alter the meaning in some way?

No Loong I just used a bad example. I dont know why I added ชอบ on the end. I was thinking of 2 or so sentences at once and didnt check it before I posted. without the chob ชอบ on the end it would have been, I am not satisfied with myself. (but still not a great example).

I should have used an example like

ผมไม่ชอบในสิ่งที่คุณพูด

Probably would have been better.

:D

I read ผมไม่ชอบในสิ่งที่คุณพูด as "I don't like what you are saying", so สิ่ง here would refer to the subject of the conversation.

ทุกสิ่งทุกอย่าง means everything, I usually think of it as Everything, every aspect.

If you used อย่าง instead of สิ่ง, so ผมไม่ชอบในอย่างที่คุณพูด would that change the meaning to " I don't like the way (or manner) that you are speaking"? or am I way off here?

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I read ผมไม่ชอบในสิ่งที่คุณพูด as "I don't like what you are saying", so สิ่ง here would refer to the subject of the conversation.

ทุกสิ่งทุกอย่าง means everything, I usually think of it as Everything, every aspect.

If you used อย่าง instead of สิ่ง, so ผมไม่ชอบในอย่างที่คุณพูด would that change the meaning to " I don't like the way (or manner) that you are speaking"? or am I way off here?

No สิ่ง, อย่าง and อัน are not interchangeable in this sentence which is why I was curious as to why you can use สิ่ง and not อัน or อย่าง

ผมไม่ชอบในสิ่งที่คุณพูด is ok whilst ผมไม่ชอบในอย่างที่คุณพูด

and ผมไม่ชอบในอันที่คุณพูด are not.

I think I understand it though afetr annons explanation.

Using สิ่ง - I don't like the thing(s) you said

Using อัน - I don't like the one(s) you said (not correct even in English)

Cheers ITR :o

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Sorry, you]re absolutely right there, what chance do I have with Thai when I can't get to grips with English grammar sad.gif I have never heard of "gerunds", but I think that I understand now.

One thing I do find very strange, in English we will say "I am happy" and the Thai word for happy is สุข, a verb. You never hear anyone say ผมสุข, it's always มีความสุข "I have happiness". I've never understood why.

Neither have I, good question actually.

To confuse things further, it is ok to say ไม่มีสุข (to be unhappy) and conversely, มีสุข is also ok, as is เป็นสุข ... so ความ is not strictly necessary in all cases either.

It would be nice with an explanation if somebody else has it. :o

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Hi guys,

I have a question regarding อย่างไรก็ตาม yarng rai gor darm (however, nevertheless)

I only ever use it when included with ทึงเเม้ว่า tuung maer war (even though)

For example ทึงเเม้ว่ามันจะดึกมากเเล้ว อย่างไรก็ตาม ต้องทำงานให้เสร็จ

(Even though its very late, however I have to finish my work)

or

ทึงเเม้ว่างานจะหนักแค่ไหน อย่างไรก็ตาม ต้องทำงานให้เสร็จ

(Even though I have alot of work, however nevertheless I still have to finish my work)

Has anyone got any other examples of use in sentences that they could share.

I use ทึงเเม้ว่า alot but I dont use อย่างไรก็ตาม very much.

cheers guys :o

oops and girls :D

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Hello ITR,

spelling error I think

ทึงเเม้ว่า is ถึงแม้ว่า with a not (no not being clever, just copied and paste into T2E and it wasn't recognised)

Thanks for the great examples of sentence construction, I think that some of this is beginning to penetrate my thick skull. :o:D

Keep up the good work :D

Edited out my own spelling mistake - Oops!

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Hello ITR,

spelling error I think

ทึงเเม้ว่า is ถึงแม้ว่า with a not (no not being clever, just copied and paste into T2E and it wasn't recognised)

Thanks for the great examples of sentence construction, I think that some of this is beginning to penetrate my thick skull. :o:D

Keep up the good work :D

Edited out my own spelling mistake - Oops!

hey thanks again..

Yes and Then I made the mistake (lazy mistake and bad for typing practice) of cutting and pasting.

Spelling is just not my thing even in English

Cheers again and well spotted..

reason for edit: edited another spellng mustake hehe

ITR :D

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Sorry, you]re absolutely right there, what chance do I have with Thai when I can't get to grips with English grammar sad.gif I have never heard of "gerunds", but I think that I understand now.

One thing I do find very strange, in English we will say "I am happy" and the Thai word for happy is สุข, a verb. You never hear anyone say ผมสุข, it's always มีความสุข "I have happiness". I've never understood why.

Neither have I, good question actually.

To confuse things further, it is ok to say ไม่มีสุข (to be unhappy) and conversely, มีสุข is also ok, as is เป็นสุข ... so ความ is not strictly necessary in all cases either.

It would be nice with an explanation if somebody else has it. :o

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Sorry, you]re absolutely right there, what chance do I have with Thai when I can't get to grips with English grammar sad.gif I have never heard of "gerunds", but I think that I understand now.

One thing I do find very strange, in English we will say "I am happy" and the Thai word for happy is สุข, a verb. You never hear anyone say ผมสุข, it's always มีความสุข "I have happiness". I've never understood why.

Neither have I, good question actually.

To confuse things further, it is ok to say ไม่มีสุข (to be unhappy) and conversely, มีสุข is also ok, as is เป็นสุข ... so ความ is not strictly necessary in all cases either.

It would be nice with an explanation if somebody else has it. :o

สุข is a noun not a verb.

From RID:

ค้น : สุข; สุข

คำ : สุข; สุข-

เสียง : สุก; สุก-ขะ-

ชนิด : น. (noun)

ที่มา : (ป., ส.) (Pali/Sanskrit)

นิยาม : ความสบาย, ความสำราญ, ความปราศจากโรค.

So, it’s impossible to say ผมสุข, because there is no verb in this sentence. But ผมสุก is ok. :D

I have read การ and ความ have been discussed about changing verb or adjective to be noun. But didn’t discuss that for noun itself can add การ and ความ in front of it too, to make it more specific. For examples; เมือง การเมือง ความเมือง ศึก การศึก ความศึก ฯลฯ all are nouns which used in different context. So, the same as สุข and ความสุข.

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Thank you yoot, that does help explain. :o

If you have time, can you explain the difference in meaning between สุข and ความสุข ?

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Thank you yoot, that does help explain. :o

If you have time, can you explain the difference in meaning between สุข and ความสุข ?

I would love to hear from you yoot aswell.

I have always used สุข in 2 ways but usually opting for the ความสุข over the เป็นสุข

here is an example of how I would use both and would love to hear of other ways to do so.

ก่อนสงครามประชาชนอย่างเป็นสุข (I would use this as - Before the war the people were happy) but it is bigger than ความสุข in that it includes like peace and quiet as well. IMO

compared to

ก่อนสงครามประชาชนอย่างมีความสุข (Before the war all the people had happiness) I would use this as just happiness.

Just my opinion and would love to hear from Yoot or others aswell.

cheers ITR :D

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