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[CSS]

The thread is still dry but I'm still hoping that it will flow again. I recognize now that I chose a pretty poor sentence to start a sentence building exercise last time. Would anyone like to build off/change/correct/modify this sentence?

วันวันหนึ่งมีคนคนหนึ่งที่เดินผ่านๆไป

[CSS]

There have been some situations where I wanted to explain or talk about character changes after switching cultures/environments. How ones general character improves or declines and I've played around with some words for character in this context but haven't found one I'm comfortable with yet or that seems to get the point across quite right. One I've used but doesn't seem to get it quite right is นิสัย is seems too closely related to habits/actions and I'm looking for more a state of being character, though you can be นิสัยดี/ไม่ดี that makes things too black and white though.

Some other translations from various dictionaries that seem relevant are: หลักศีลธรรม องค์ กิริยาดี I've never used these words in context so I was hoping some of you could put them into some senteces using the general context of character change for the worse or better. Or if you have a better word to use I'd love to learn it.

Thanks

CSS

[CSS]

I have two words/phrases that I would like to explore in the following context and would love some feedback.

The first is เหมาะสมกับ or สมควรได้รับ I would like to use it in the context of telling someone that they deserve better from life than what they've received. (that the quality of their quality character is worthy of better cards than they've been dealt in life)

Would it be proper to say คุณสมควรได้รับสิ่งที่ดีกว่าสิ่งทีไดรับเป็นจริง or คุณเหมาะสมกับชีวิดที่ดีกว่าชีวิตที่คุณเคยมี

The second is just the use of ถึงแม้ว่า or one of the other many phrases loosely translated as "even if"
For example is it a correct usage of the above to say ผมจะไปเที่ยวทะเลถึงแม้ว่าฝนตก or is there a different phrase that would be better?

[yoot]

CSS, on 2007-04-23 21:40:27, said:

This was a great thread that got me hooked on the Thai Language forum, unfortunately it's gone dry. I never posted on it as those posting were much more capable but I'm hoping I can get it going again. I'll start a sentence and take advantage of the opportunity to use a phrase that one of my employees has used several times recently but I don't entirely understand.

หลังจากหน่อยกลับมาที่บ้าน เขานึกว่า ชีวิตเป็นสับปะรด

Do you mean you don't understand the phrase "ชีวิตเป็นสับปะรด"?

If yes, then you should know that it's correct to say "ไม่เป็นสับปะรด" which is used in negative sentence. It means " bad, no good or suck".

So, in your sentence, it's not proper to say "เขานึกว่า ชีวิตเป็นสับปะรด", unless you want to use this phrase as a metaphor compare his life with pineapple which I don't know how it should be.

[yoot]

CSS, on 2007-04-30 18:56:07, said:

The thread is still dry but I'm still hoping that it will flow again. I recognize now that I chose a pretty poor sentence to start a sentence building exercise last time. Would anyone like to build off/change/correct/modify this sentence?

วันวันหนึ่งมีคนคนหนึ่งที่เดินผ่านๆไป

Your sentence is too difficult to understand even for a native Thai speaker as me.

I will try to split it to parts.

วันวันหนึ่ง - each day
มีคนคนหนึ่ง - there is a person
ที่เดิน - who walk
ผ่านๆไป - pass by (without having any intention to walk pass by that area or interested in anything around tha area)

So, what was the meaning in your mind when you posted that sentence?

[yoot]

CSS, on 2007-05-01 15:36:19, said:

There have been some situations where I wanted to explain or talk about character changes after switching cultures/environments. How ones general character improves or declines and I've played around with some words for character in this context but haven't found one I'm comfortable with yet or that seems to get the point across quite right. One I've used but doesn't seem to get it quite right is นิสัย is seems too closely related to habits/actions and I'm looking for more a state of being character, though you can be นิสัยดี/ไม่ดี that makes things too black and white though.

Some other translations from various dictionaries that seem relevant are: หลักศีลธรรม องค์ กิริยาดี I've never used these words in context so I was hoping some of you could put them into some senteces using the general context of character change for the worse or better. Or if you have a better word to use I'd love to learn it.

Thanks

CSS

I would use the word "อุปนิสัย" or "ลักษณะนิสัย" . And I wouldn't use ดี or ไม่ดี to describe the person as you said it makes things too black and white. I would use ดีขึ้น or แย่ลง instead.

For example;

ตั้งแต่เขากลับจากเมืองไทย อุปนิสัย(ลักษณะนิสัย)เขาเปลี่ยนไปนะ ดูดีขี้น ไม่รู้ว่าเกิดอะไรขึ้น
- Since he came back from Thailand, his character has changed, look better. Don't know what happened.

" นิสัย " is mostly used in the meaning of "habit"

For example ;

นิสัยที่ไม่ดีของผมคือชอบกัดเล็บ
- My bad habit is tending to bite my finger nails.

[yoot]

CSS, on 2007-05-21 19:07:30, said:

I have two words/phrases that I would like to explore in the following context and would love some feedback.

The first is เหมาะสมกับ or สมควรได้รับ I would like to use it in the context of telling someone that they deserve better from life than what they've received. (that the quality of their quality character is worthy of better cards than they've been dealt in life)

Would it be proper to say คุณสมควรได้รับสิ่งที่ดีกว่าสิ่งทีไดรับเป็นจริง or คุณเหมาะสมกับชีวิดที่ดีกว่าชีวิตที่คุณเคยมี

The second is just the use of ถึงแม้ว่า or one of the other many phrases loosely translated as "even if"
For example is it a correct usage of the above to say ผมจะไปเที่ยวทะเลถึงแม้ว่าฝนตก or is there a different phrase that would be better?

เหมาะสม - suitable, proper, appropriate, fitting, becoming, reasonable.

สมควร - suitable, appropriate, proper, fitting, worthy, reasonable.

สมควรได้รับ - deserve.

" คุณสมควรได้รับสิ่งที่ดีกว่าสิ่งที่คุณได้รับในตอนนี้ " - You deserve better thing than what you have received right now.

" คุณสมควรได้รับสิ่งที่ดีกว่าในชีวิต มากกว่าที่คุณได้รับมา " - You deserve better from life much more than what you have received.

" คุณเหมาะสมกับชีวิดที่ดีกว่าชีวิตที่คุณเคยมี " - You are fitting with the better life than what you used to have.

ถึงแม้ว่า - though, although, even if, even though.

" ผมจะไปเที่ยวทะเลถึงแม้ว่าฝนตก " is correct. But I would say " ถึงแม้ว่าฝนจะตก ผมก็จะไปเที่ยวทะเล " or " ถึงฝนจะตก ผมก็จะไปเที่ยวทะเล"

[CSS]

Thanks for all your replies Yoot. They're very helpful.

[CSS]

yoot, on 2007-05-22 22:02:16, said:

Do you mean you don't understand the phrase "ชีวิตเป็นสับปะรด"?

If yes, then you should know that it's correct to say "ไม่เป็นสับปะรด" which is used in negative sentence. It means " bad, no good or suck".

So, in your sentence, it's not proper to say "เขานึกว่า ชีวิตเป็นสับปะรด", unless you want to use this phrase as a metaphor compare his life with pineapple which I don't know how it should be.

Thanks. I posted the thread because when I heard it said I felt it was in a positive context but when I looked for the phrase online I only found negative contexts, like you said, and wondered if it could take on something positive. Next time I see the person I heard say it I'll ask them about how they used it.

I'll only use it in the negative sense for myself though. Thanks.

[CSS]

yoot, on 2007-05-22 22:42:27, said:

CSS, on 2007-05-01 15:36:19, said:

There have been some situations where I wanted to explain or talk about character changes after switching cultures/environments. How ones general character improves or declines and I've played around with some words for character in this context but haven't found one I'm comfortable with yet or that seems to get the point across quite right. One I've used but doesn't seem to get it quite right is นิสัย is seems too closely related to habits/actions and I'm looking for more a state of being character, though you can be นิสัยดี/ไม่ดี that makes things too black and white though.

Some other translations from various dictionaries that seem relevant are: หลักศีลธรรม องค์ กิริยาดี I've never used these words in context so I was hoping some of you could put them into some senteces using the general context of character change for the worse or better. Or if you have a better word to use I'd love to learn it.

Thanks

CSS

I would use the word "อุปนิสัย" or "ลักษณะนิสัย" . And I wouldn't use ดี or ไม่ดี to describe the person as you said it makes things too black and white. I would use ดีขึ้น or แย่ลง instead.

For example;

ตั้งแต่เขากลับจากเมืองไทย อุปนิสัย(ลักษณะนิสัย)เขาเปลี่ยนไปนะ ดูดีขี้น ไม่รู้ว่าเกิดอะไรขึ้น
- Since he came back from Thailand, his character has changed, look better. Don't know what happened.

" นิสัย " is mostly used in the meaning of "habit"

For example ;

นิสัยที่ไม่ดีของผมคือชอบกัดเล็บ
- My bad habit is tending to bite my finger nails.

That's exactly what I'm looking for; thanks Yoot!

To test my comprehension I'll try using the example but changing the subject to the first person. I'll keep the sentence intentionally general/vague. As it seems to me that I shouldn't say ดูดีขื้น about myself could I write:
ตั้งแต่เรื่องนั้นเกิดขึ้น อุปนิสัย(ของ)ผมแย่ลง

I was also wondering about the prefix อุป I've seen it before in the word for obstacle อุปสรรค what does the prefix mean?

Thanks. I appreciate it.

[CSS]

yoot, on 2007-05-22 22:16:22, said:

CSS, on 2007-04-30 18:56:07, said:

The thread is still dry but I'm still hoping that it will flow again. I recognize now that I chose a pretty poor sentence to start a sentence building exercise last time. Would anyone like to build off/change/correct/modify this sentence?

วันวันหนึ่งมีคนคนหนึ่งที่เดินผ่านๆไป

Your sentence is too difficult to understand even for a native Thai speaker as me.

I will try to split it to parts.

วันวันหนึ่ง - each day
มีคนคนหนึ่ง - there is a person
ที่เดิน - who walk
ผ่านๆไป - pass by (without having any intention to walk pass by that area or interested in anything around tha area)

So, what was the meaning in your mind when you posted that sentence?

I'm a bit embarrased...This was just my attempt at being a little poetic, but I obviously failed. Best to not waste any more of anyone's time on it. Basically it was just meant to be a vague sentence that could be built off of saying that "On one day, there was one person, who randomly passed by." I think the confusion might have come from the improper use of วันวันหนึ่ง as I didn't mean each day but rather "one unspecified day."

Thanks for working with me even in my ignorance and unreadable Thai.

[CSS]

yoot, on 2007-05-22 23:48:26, said:

CSS, on 2007-05-21 19:07:30, said:

I have two words/phrases that I would like to explore in the following context and would love some feedback.

The first is เหมาะสมกับ or สมควรได้รับ I would like to use it in the context of telling someone that they deserve better from life than what they've received. (that the quality of their quality character is worthy of better cards than they've been dealt in life)

Would it be proper to say คุณสมควรได้รับสิ่งที่ดีกว่าสิ่งทีไดรับเป็นจริง or คุณเหมาะสมกับชีวิดที่ดีกว่าชีวิตที่คุณเคยมี

The second is just the use of ถึงแม้ว่า or one of the other many phrases loosely translated as "even if"
For example is it a correct usage of the above to say ผมจะไปเที่ยวทะเลถึงแม้ว่าฝนตก or is there a different phrase that would be better?

เหมาะสม - suitable, proper, appropriate, fitting, becoming, reasonable.

สมควร - suitable, appropriate, proper, fitting, worthy, reasonable.

สมควรได้รับ - deserve.

" คุณสมควรได้รับสิ่งที่ดีกว่าสิ่งที่คุณได้รับในตอนนี้ " - You deserve better thing than what you have received right now.

" คุณสมควรได้รับสิ่งที่ดีกว่าในชีวิต มากกว่าที่คุณได้รับมา " - You deserve better from life much more than what you have received.

" คุณเหมาะสมกับชีวิดที่ดีกว่าชีวิตที่คุณเคยมี " - You are fitting with the better life than what you used to have.

ถึงแม้ว่า - though, although, even if, even though.

" ผมจะไปเที่ยวทะเลถึงแม้ว่าฝนตก " is correct. But I would say " ถึงแม้ว่าฝนจะตก ผมก็จะไปเที่ยวทะเล " or " ถึงฝนจะตก ผมก็จะไปเที่ยวทะเล"

Thanks for all this Yoot.

Your sentence above that I put in bold and underlined sounds like it fits the situation I'm looking for perfectly.

I still often order my sentences in a less than natural Thai way so I appreciate the suggestion concerning ถึงแม้ว่า

Helpful as always, Thanks.

[yoot]

CSS, on 2007-05-23 08:23:37, said:

To test my comprehension I'll try using the example but changing the subject to the first person. I'll keep the sentence intentionally general/vague. As it seems to me that I shouldn't say ดูดีขื้น about myself could I write:
ตั้งแต่เรื่องนั้นเกิดขึ้น อุปนิสัย(ของ)ผมแย่ลง

It's correct. But I will give you an alternative sentence.

ตั้งแต่เกิดเรื่องนั้นขึ้น อุปนิสัยของผมก็แย่ลง

You would often hear sentences like these on the news ;

เกิดการฆาตกรรมขึ้นที่บ้านเลขที่.....

เกิดเหตุไฟไหม้ในห้างดัง....

CSS, on 2007-05-23 08:23:37, said:

I was also wondering about the prefix อุป I've seen it before in the word for obstacle อุปสรรค what does the prefix mean?

อุป is used with words from Pali and Sansakrit, a prefix conveying the meaning of 'over', 'above', 'near', 'close', 'beyond', 'deputy'.

[CSS]

yoot, on 2007-05-24 09:59:14, said:

CSS, on 2007-05-23 08:23:37, said:

To test my comprehension I'll try using the example but changing the subject to the first person. I'll keep the sentence intentionally general/vague. As it seems to me that I shouldn't say ดูดีขื้น about myself could I write:
ตั้งแต่เรื่องนั้นเกิดขึ้น อุปนิสัย(ของ)ผมแย่ลง

It's correct. But I will give you an alternative sentence.

ตั้งแต่เกิดเรื่องนั้นขึ้น อุปนิสัยของผมก็แย่ลง

You would often hear sentences like these on the news ;

เกิดการฆาตกรรมขึ้นที่บ้านเลขที่.....

เกิดเหตุไฟไหม้ในห้างดัง....

CSS, on 2007-05-23 08:23:37, said:

I was also wondering about the prefix อุป I've seen it before in the word for obstacle อุปสรรค what does the prefix mean?

อุป is used with words from Pali and Sansakrit, a prefix conveying the meaning of 'over', 'above', 'near', 'close', 'beyond', 'deputy'.

Thanks Yoot. It's the help I need. I still need to work lots on my word order and sentence construction when writing (and probably when speaking too).

Edited by CSS, 2007-05-26 02:20:24.

[LookSaMoon]

In the Rai!, on 2007-01-17 16:52:49, said:

การคิด = thinking พมขีเกียจในเรื่องการคิด "I am lazy when it comes to thinking"



ITR

should say ผมขี้เกียจคิด

[LookSaMoon]

yoot, on 2007-02-01 18:28:58, said:

คนเราจะมีสุข หรือ ไม่มีสุข มันอยู่ที่ใจ
คนเราจะมีความสุข หรือ ไม่มีความสุข มันอยู่ที่ใจ

should say คนเราจะสุขหรือทุกข์มันอยู่ที่ใจ

[LookSaMoon]

I like this topic. It's really useful.

[CSS]

I've recently heard the words ต่างหาก used in contexts that I can't quite box in well enough to use myself. Lexitron dictionary gives the definition as:
ต่างหาก [ADV] separately; independently; on one's own; on the contrary; far from it
Ant. รวม.
Def. อีกส่วนหนึ่ง, อีกแผนกหนึ่ง.
With an example sentence of:
เขาแยกบ้านไปอยู่ต่างหากกับเมียของเขา

I understand it in the context of the example sentence but I seem to have heard the word used in situations like, "not only did I have to drive my motorbike to Mae Sai, but it rained too." ต่างหาก seems to be playing the role of "too." (I can´t think of the actual sentence I heard, so this one is my own construction.)

Would it also be usable in situations where we would use the word "to boot"/moreover/in addition to. eg. He's rich and handsome to boot.

[meadish_sweetball]

It can be used as you say, where 'too', 'to boot', 'moreover' are English equivalents (and then the construction in this case will be 'iik taang haak' tagged on at the end), but also to convey the notion instead/'contrary to what you think' (without a preceding 'iik').

[CSS]

meadish_sweetball, on 2007-08-13 19:18:38, said:

It can be used as you say, where 'too', 'to boot', 'moreover' are English equivalents (and then the construction in this case will be 'iik taang haak' tagged on at the end), but also to convey the notion instead/'contrary to what you think' (without a preceding 'iik').

Thanks Meadish. You pinned what was confusing me, that it also could convey the notion of instead/contrary to what you think. That the former had an iik and the latter didn't is what I needed to know. Now that you've pointed it out I can think back to hearing the iik in the former and not in the latter.

[djayz]

aanon, on 2007-01-16 13:00:03, said:

Pilchard, on 2007-01-16 21:14:11, said:

Hi All

Can someone give me a hand with the word 'move' and how it should be used.

How would I ask someone to move their car/bike a bit if blocking me in ?

Also for office/household use, "can you move the box over there,please"

Thanks

hi pilchard,

ขยับ kha-yap is a pretty useful word for this sort of thing. you can use it for both the examples and it covers moving something from inside (like a car), outside (like a box), part of the body (like a foot) and more.

คุญครับ, คุญช่วยขยับรถหน่อยได้ไหมครับ

khoon khrap, khoon chuay ka yap rot nawy dai mai khrap?

excuse me, could i ask you to move the car a little? (not a direct translation, but about that polite)

you can extend it if needed, instead of ka yap rot, ask them to ka yap whatever pai wherever and you're able to do just about anything. a good feature of using ka yap is you don't really need to know the appropriate verbs for lifting, driving, pushing, carrying, dragging, reversing and so on.

I can't find " คุญครับ, คุญช่วย " in any dictionary - I'm assuming that it should be " คุณครับ, คุณช่วย ". Am I right and if not, what does " คุญ " mean Thanks!

[5tash]

djayz, on 2008-04-15 16:40:10, said:

aanon, on 2007-01-16 13:00:03, said:

Pilchard, on 2007-01-16 21:14:11, said:

Hi All

Can someone give me a hand with the word 'move' and how it should be used.

How would I ask someone to move their car/bike a bit if blocking me in ?

Also for office/household use, "can you move the box over there,please"

Thanks

hi pilchard,

ขยับ kha-yap is a pretty useful word for this sort of thing. you can use it for both the examples and it covers moving something from inside (like a car), outside (like a box), part of the body (like a foot) and more.

คุญครับ, คุญช่วยขยับรถหน่อยได้ไหมครับ

khoon khrap, khoon chuay ka yap rot nawy dai mai khrap?

excuse me, could i ask you to move the car a little? (not a direct translation, but about that polite)

you can extend it if needed, instead of ka yap rot, ask them to ka yap whatever pai wherever and you're able to do just about anything. a good feature of using ka yap is you don't really need to know the appropriate verbs for lifting, driving, pushing, carrying, dragging, reversing and so on.

I can't find " คุญครับ, คุญช่วย " in any dictionary - I'm assuming that it should be " คุณครับ, คุณช่วย ". Am I right and if not, what does " คุญ " mean Thanks!

Yes, there's a typo from the poster.You assumed right it should read " คุณครับ, คุณข้วย ".

[mangkorn]

5tash, on 2008-04-15 21:37:23, said:

Yes, there's a typo from the poster.You assumed right it should read " คุณครับ, คุณข้วย ".

Oops, you've got a typo there, too. Perhaps คุณช่วย - instead of คุณข้วย ?

[SoftWater]

aanon, on 2007-01-16 13:00:03, said:

hi pilchard,

ขยับ kha-yap is a pretty useful word for this sort of thing. you can use it for both the examples and it covers moving something from inside (like a car), outside (like a box), part of the body (like a foot) and more.

...

you can extend it if needed, instead of ka yap rot, ask them to ka yap whatever pai wherever and you're able to do just about anything. a good feature of using ka yap is you don't really need to know the appropriate verbs for lifting, driving, pushing, carrying, dragging, reversing and so on.

This word is also useful for telling your mrs to budge over a bit in bed
ขยับไปหน่อย
ka: yab[1] pbai noi[1]
'budge up a bit' {lit: move away a little}

Interestingly, if you want your sweetheart to move a little nearer it changes to
ขยับเข้ามาหน่อย
ka:yab[1] kao[2] mar noi[1]
'snuggle in a bit' {lit: move enter here a little}

Edited by SoftWater, 2010-03-03 19:14:31.

[Joosesis]

Okay...I have one. I learned this word yesterday:


ติว
[to] cram for an examination ; study ; mug up

I learned it in this context of a study group กลุ่มติวหนังสือ in what other ways can I use the word ติว ???