Prev Page 2 of 6 1 2 3 4 Next » You cannot reply to this topic Go to first unread post 145 replies to this topic

[Rikker]

Not exactly rarely, but the ratio in the news corpus is about 3:1 with นิยม vs. without. There are certainly more common ways of saying the same thing, though.

Without a whole lot more evidence, it's hard to say whether ชมชอบ came about as an an alliterative expression first and was later combined with นิชม as a rhyming expression, or whether it was initially part of นิยมชมชอบ and later used separately. A sort of chicken and egg problem.

[aanon]

Rikker, on 2007-01-10 16:03:32, said:

I think we can make the distinction that ตลอด often indicates the entirety of a span of time, which is a viewed as a single instance, while เสมอ is the entirety of many instances.

เขาแต่งตัวหล่อเสมอ (He always dressed sharply, i.e. every time he dresses.)
เขาแต่งตัวหล่อตลอดทั้งวัน (He was dressed handsomely all day, i.e. throughout the whole day without changing clothes)

hi again all,

i know i'm a bit late on this one, but thought it worth pointing out that ตลอด also has a usage which not related to time, namely as in:

ตลอดเส้นทาง
ตลอดแนว
ตลอดคลอง

and so on. meaning is 'all along the' [elongated physical object].

is a watchtower sufficiently elongated to use ตลอด?

[Rikker]

Right. It's the entirety of a span, whether time or distance.

[Pilchard]

Hi All

Can someone give me a hand with the word 'move' and how it should be used.

How would I ask someone to move their car/bike a bit if blocking me in ?

Also for office/household use, "can you move the box over there,please"

Thanks

[aanon]

Pilchard, on 2007-01-16 21:14:11, said:

Hi All

Can someone give me a hand with the word 'move' and how it should be used.

How would I ask someone to move their car/bike a bit if blocking me in ?

Also for office/household use, "can you move the box over there,please"

Thanks

hi pilchard,

ขยับ kha-yap is a pretty useful word for this sort of thing. you can use it for both the examples and it covers moving something from inside (like a car), outside (like a box), part of the body (like a foot) and more.

คุญครับ, คุญช่วยขยับรถหน่อยได้ไหมครับ

khoon khrap, khoon chuay ka yap rot nawy dai mai khrap?

excuse me, could i ask you to move the car a little? (not a direct translation, but about that polite)

you can extend it if needed, instead of ka yap rot, ask them to ka yap whatever pai wherever and you're able to do just about anything. a good feature of using ka yap is you don't really need to know the appropriate verbs for lifting, driving, pushing, carrying, dragging, reversing and so on.

[meadish_sweetball]

aanon, on 2007-01-16 12:00:03, said:

Pilchard, on 2007-01-16 21:14:11, said:

Hi All

Can someone give me a hand with the word 'move' and how it should be used.

How would I ask someone to move their car/bike a bit if blocking me in ?

Also for office/household use, "can you move the box over there,please"

Thanks

hi pilchard,

ขยับ kha-yap is a pretty useful word for this sort of thing. you can use it for both the examples and it covers moving something from inside (like a car), outside (like a box), part of the body (like a foot) and more.

คุญครับ, คุญช่วยขยับรถหน่อยได้ไหมครับ

khoon khrap, khoon chuay ka yap rot nawy dai mai khrap?

excuse me, could i ask you to move the car a little? (not a direct translation, but about that polite)

you can extend it if needed, instead of ka yap rot, ask them to ka yap whatever pai wherever and you're able to do just about anything. a good feature of using ka yap is you don't really need to know the appropriate verbs for lifting, driving, pushing, carrying, dragging, reversing and so on.

์เยี่ยม aanon!

Just in case someone wonders though, here are some verbs:

lift: ยก (often with ขึ้น indicating direction)
drive: ขับ (sometimes บังคับ in formal Thai)
push: พลัก
carry: (in your hand/hands [=hold]) ถือ (on your back) แบก (in your arms, for example a baby) อุ้ม ... there are even more...
drag: ลาก (and about 10 others! Anyone feel interested in explaining when to use which one? It would be enough for a thread of its own...)
reverse: ถอย (also 'retreat')

[Rikker]

Quick note: push should be ผลัก, low tone instead of high.

[In the Rai!]

Just a few problems I have when I translate Thai into English. I understand the sentences when I read them but I ofetn have problems choosing the correct words when trying to write them out into English.

for example ข้อมูลการศึกษาของนักศึกษา ....... komuun garn suksar kong naksuksar .....
Garn always confuses me as to whether to add ing to the verb.

Like would this be "Students that are studying data" or "students that study data" or "The data that is being studied by students"

As you can see it is usually the adding of การ that confuses me. I know when to add it when I speak and write Thai its just when I want to translate it to English that I get confused at times.

Any help or rules to remember would be appreciated.

Cheers ITR

[Pilchard]

Thanks guys

Great word and very versatile

Always struggled before with,ya:i (thee yoo:), gratheuh:p and leuan but they never seemed to fit what I was trying to say.

kha-yap fits much better,

Cheers

[meadish_sweetball]

In the Rai!, on 2007-01-17 04:35:31, said:

Just a few problems I have when I translate Thai into English. I understand the sentences when I read them but I ofetn have problems choosing the correct words when trying to write them out into English.

for example ข้อมูลการศึกษาของนักศึกษา ....... komuun garn suksar kong naksuksar .....
Garn always confuses me as to whether to add ing to the verb.

Like would this be "Students that are studying data" or "students that study data" or "The data that is being studied by students"

As you can see it is usually the adding of การ that confuses me. I know when to add it when I speak and write Thai its just when I want to translate it to English that I get confused at times.

Any help or rules to remember would be appreciated.

Cheers ITR

Translations into English isn't my forte as I am not a native speaker, but bearing this in mind, I would render your sentence as

'Study information of the student(s)'

I would imagine that sentence to be a header in a document detailing which subjects the student (or students, we dont know if this is plural or not from the Thai) is taking, and other information related to that. Fairly sure there is a better way of putting it in English (study information could relate to a specific study), but that is what you get.

You don't really need to do anything about การ when translating - ข้อมูลการศึกษา is a full expression in itself, meaning something like "information about education/study". By adding it to the verb ศึกษา you get a noun instead - this is often equivalent to the -ing form in English, but it is not the exact same thing.

[aanon]

[quote name='In the Rai!' date='2007-01-17 14:35:31' post='1086499']


for example ข้อมูลการศึกษาของนักศึกษา ....... komuun garn suksar kong naksuksar .....
Garn always confuses me as to whether to add ing to the verb.

Like would this be "Students that are studying data" or "students that study data" or "The data that is being studied by students"

______

hey in the rai,

ข้อมูลการศึกษาของนักศึกษา

as meadish_sweetball has said, it's:

student study information or
students' study information

in other words, 'information which relates to study done by (the) students'. could be talking about performance, or enrolment, or whatever.

as far as getting to this understanding, everything after ข้อมูล is explaining what type of ข้อมูล it is. the การ changes ศึกษา (to study) into an abstract noun (study or studies). for example, as in the sentence "study didn't interest her much".

so it's information about studies. from there, it could theoretically either be

[information about study] which is owned by students OR
[information about study] of the students.

the second one is almost certainly what is intended.

anyway, as far as การ and 'ing', it just depends whether the abtract noun in english has 'ing' or not.

for example

v. to cook n.cooking
v. to design n. design

[In the Rai!]

aanon, on 2007-01-17 13:46:15, said:

______

hey in the rai,

ข้อมูลการศึกษาของนักศึกษา

as meadish_sweetball has said, it's:

student study information or
students' study information

in other words, 'information which relates to study done by (the) students'. could be talking about performance, or enrolment, or whatever.

as far as getting to this understanding, everything after ข้อมูล is explaining what type of ข้อมูล it is. the การ changes ศึกษา (to study) into an abstract noun (study or studies). for example, as in the sentence "study didn't interest her much".

so it's information about studies. from there, it could theoretically either be

[information about study] which is owned by students OR
[information about study] of the students.

the second one is almost certainly what is intended.

anyway, as far as การ and 'ing', it just depends whether the abtract noun in english has 'ing' or not.

for example

v. to cook n.cooking
v. to design n. design

Thank you to both Meadish and Aanon.

So the การ just changes a verb to a noun as per your examples Aanon is that correct?

cheers guys

ITR

[aanon]

meadish_sweetball, on 2007-01-16 23:40:28, said:

drag: ลาก (and about 10 others! Anyone feel interested in explaining when to use which one? It would be enough for a thread of its own...)

hey meadish_sweetball,

i can think of lots for carry (หิ้ว แบก อุ้ม หาม and so on) but not for drag...could you expand on this a little?

thanks!

[aanon]

In the Rai!, on 2007-01-17 17:56:46, said:

Thank you to both Meadish and Aanon.

So the การ just changes a verb to a noun as per your examples Aanon is that correct?

cheers guys

ITR

umm, it changes the verb to an abstract noun, from ออกแบบ (v. to design) to การออกแบบ (abstract noun : design, as in "design has undergone many revolutions over the last century") but NOT noun.design as in "he handed in his design".

[In the Rai!]

aanon, on 2007-01-17 14:07:57, said:

In the Rai!, on 2007-01-17 17:56:46, said:

Thank you to both Meadish and Aanon.

So the การ just changes a verb to a noun as per your examples Aanon is that correct?

cheers guys

ITR

umm, it changes the verb to an abstract noun, from ออกแบบ (v. to design) to การออกแบบ (abstract noun : design, as in "design has undergone many revolutions over the last century") but NOT noun.design as in "he handed in his design".

Gotcha cheers mate

[In the Rai!]

meadish_sweetball, on 2007-01-16 23:40:28, said:

drag: ลาก (and about 10 others! Anyone feel interested in explaining when to use which one? It would be enough for a thread of its own...)

Here are a couple Meadish..

สาว pull
( more of pull than drag but can be used as drag aswell)= พวกเราช่วยกันสาวเชือกขึ้นมา I would use it for action more so than physically pulling something heavy.

โยง (I would use this for pull also but more tha object)
พมโยงเชือกจากมุมห้องไปยังอีกห้องหนึ่ง

ลาก = drag
ควายลากเกวียน
I had a look on Lexitron and found this example which I was suprised at.
เพื่อนๆ มาลากผมให้ไปดูนิทรรศการแต่เช้า
As in to drag out somewhere. We would say "my friends dragged me along" or something along those lines.
I would have always used the same sentence with บังคับ
เพื่อนๆ มาบังคับผมให้ไปดูนิทรรศการแต่เช้า

so its interesting to see the different usage.

I would love to see how other people use them..

ITR

Edited by In the Rai!, 2007-01-17 14:53:27.

[loong]

In the Rai!, on 2007-01-17 10:35:31, said:

Just a few problems I have when I translate Thai into English. I understand the sentences when I read them but I ofetn have problems choosing the correct words when trying to write them out into English.

for example ข้อมูลการศึกษาของนักศึกษา ....... komuun garn suksar kong naksuksar .....
Garn always confuses me as to whether to add ing to the verb.

Like would this be "Students that are studying data" or "students that study data" or "The data that is being studied by students"

As you can see it is usually the adding of การ that confuses me. I know when to add it when I speak and write Thai its just when I want to translate it to English that I get confused at times.

Any help or rules to remember would be appreciated.

Cheers ITR

I could be wrong ( I often am)

ข้อมูลการศึกษาของนักศึกษา

I would seperate this ข้อมูล (การศึกษาของนักศึกษา )

การศึกษาของนักศึกษา Education (Noun) of Student -in other words -"Student's Education", the object of the sentence (I think, grammar is not my strong point)

ข้อมูล Data , Information

Information (data, details) relating to the Student's Education.

So could it be what we English call "School Report"?

Where did you read this phrase In The Rai?

[loong]

Talking about Abstract Nouns.
Some use การ others ความ

I tend to use ความ as in ความคิด. if I don't actually know the word and want to change a verb into an abstract noun I will put ความ in front. I seem to get away with it!
Are there any rules to know when to use ความ or การ

Edited by loong, 2007-01-17 16:05:32.

[In the Rai!]

loong, on 2007-01-17 15:50:33, said:

In the Rai!, on 2007-01-17 10:35:31, said:

Just a few problems I have when I translate Thai into English. I understand the sentences when I read them but I ofetn have problems choosing the correct words when trying to write them out into English.

for example ข้อมูลการศึกษาของนักศึกษา ....... komuun garn suksar kong naksuksar .....
Garn always confuses me as to whether to add ing to the verb.

Like would this be "Students that are studying data" or "students that study data" or "The data that is being studied by students"

As you can see it is usually the adding of การ that confuses me. I know when to add it when I speak and write Thai its just when I want to translate it to English that I get confused at times.

Any help or rules to remember would be appreciated.

Cheers ITR

I could be wrong ( I often am)

ข้อมูลการศึกษาของนักศึกษา

I would seperate this ข้อมูล (การศึกษาของนักศึกษา )

การศึกษาของนักศึกษา Education (Noun) of Student -in other words -"Student's Education", the object of the sentence (I think, grammar is not my strong point)

ข้อมูล Data , Information

Information (data, details) relating to the Student's Education.

So could it be what we English call "School Report"?

Where did you read this phrase In The Rai?

ข้อมูลการศึกษาของนักศึกษานานาชาติในสถาบัน ไมสามาถค้นหาไดในเมืองไทย

This is the full phrase I used for my example. I have it my book but don't know where it came from (source). It would be a while ago when I wrote it in there.

That is why it confuses me a little as I would translate this to
ข้อมูลการศึกษาของนักศึกษานานาชาติในสถาบัน ไมสามาถค้นหาไดในเมืองไทย
"The information studied from the international students in the institute could not be found in Thailand."

ITR

[In the Rai!]

loong, on 2007-01-17 16:04:03, said:

Talking about Abstract Nouns.
Some use การ others ความ

I tend to use ความ as in ความคิด. if I don't actually know the word and want to change a verb into an abstract noun I will put ความ in front. I seem to get away with it!
Are there any rules to know when to use ความ or การ

see I have always used the 2 in completely different circumstances.
for example

คิด = think
ความคิด = idea พมี่ความคิดที่ดีมากมาย "I have many good ideas"
การคิด = thinking พมขีเกียจในเรื่องการคิด "I am lazy when it comes to thinking"

Just the way I see it.

ITR

[aanon]

loong, on 2007-01-17 20:04:03, said:

Talking about Abstract Nouns.
Some use การ others ความ

I tend to use ความ as in ความคิด. if I don't actually know the word and want to change a verb into an abstract noun I will put ความ in front. I seem to get away with it!
Are there any rules to know when to use ความ or การ

just thinking as i type here....i'd be going for การ with most verbs, and i guess ความ goes with adjectives to mean something like "the quality of being x" so for example เท่ (cool, stylish) becomes ความเท่ (coolness, style).

ความคิด - this seems to be a bit different, as kit is a verb....is it just a learned exception? or is ความ here being used to mean the content of thinking, ie. ideas?

การคิด (for "thinking") doesn't sound that wrong to me, but i'm having trouble thinking of an example sentence where ความคิด couldn't be used...

ok, if i was talking about speediness of thinking i might talk about
ความรวดเร็วในการคิด

so, after all that, i'm thinking ความ for adjectives and การ for verbs. but not sure if that covers everything and/or if there are exceptions. anyone?

[loong]

กำลัง gam-lang when added before a verb will be the equivilent of ...ing at the end of an English word.
การ gan when added before a verb changes the verb to a noun, but becomes part of the word.
It also has the meaning of action, task, work, job, activity. And in cases like การคิด actually means "The action of thinking" as far as I know, but does not become part of the word, it retains it's individual word status in my opinion.

I'm going to post this now and add more later as the internet is really playing up today

Edited by loong, 2007-01-17 19:26:20.

[loong]

ข้อ can also be used to change a word to a noun

ข้อคิด kôr kít idea ; consideration point ; thought

ข้อสงสัย kôr sŏng-săi doubt ; suspicion

ข้อเสีย kôr sĭa [ N ] disadvantage ; fault ; defect



And for a giggle using ข้อ and ความ:-
ข้อความ kôr kwaam N ] SMS text message ; statement ; message ; text ; passage ; account ; content

Other ความ prefixes
http://www.thai2engl...onary/5531.html

again more to come as do not trust internet connection

[In the Rai!]

loong, on 2007-01-17 19:23:03, said:

กำลัง gam-lang when added before a verb will be the equivilent of ...ing at the end of an English word.
การ gan when added before a verb changes the verb to a noun, but becomes part of the word.
It also has the meaning of action, task, work, job, activity. And in cases like การคิด actually means "The action of thinking" as far as I know, but does not become part of the word, it retains it's individual word status in my opinion.

I'm going to post this now and add more later as the internet is really playing up today

agreed Loong!

I like that "the action of thinking"

Yes กำลัง definately adds the ing to a verb. But it is only used when talking about doing the verb now.
For example, it can be used when saying "I am coming home now" but when saying " I am not good at coming home on time" I would use ในเรื่องการ or ในดานการ IMO
I too have only made these assumptions from learning myself and would love to hear from someone who has studied การ and ความ.

Does anyone have any examples of การ used with anything but a verb?

ITR

[aanon]

In the Rai!, on 2007-01-18 02:21:53, said:

Does anyone have any examples of การ used with anything but a verb?

ITR

yes, but it's loong's second usage of การ, namely as "action, task, work, job, activity".
การเมือง politics
การเกษตร agriculture

hey, can any dissect กรรมการ (committee member, umpire) for me? is การ being used in yet another way here? for example, to designate a person, to mean 'official' or something else? i also see นักการ (a clerk? office boy?) here and there, what is an office boy a นัก of?

perhaps they don't bear dissection, but i'd be interested to know what you think. thanks!