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[old wanderer]

AsiaCheese, on 2007-01-26 10:29:10, said:

keenok, on 2007-01-26 09:18:55, said:

what really adds to the confusion is that if the officer sees the days on tourist exempt visa and tourist visa as both counting towards the 90 days, why did he give me another 30 days??

The common factor is the word "tourist" - whether it's a (tourist) visa-on-arrival or a tourist visa stamped into your passport by a Thai embassy or consulate. That's my experience from applying for a 2-month tourist visa & wanting another one within 6 months -- the lady at the consulate said that she could only issue a 1-month visa as the second one (meaning: I might as well do it on a visa-on-arrival, which is free).

So: it seems as though any sort of visa below a non-immigrant is considered a tourist visa and thus counts towards 90 days within 180...

Uncool.

I really do agree tourist means tourinst.....90 days in 180 days means what it says.....

I can not be very simpathetic, as here in the USA I see what a shamble we have be allowing 12 million stupid, uneducated and zenophobic Mexicans invade this country, waving there flag....

Finally the USA is DEMANDING pasports for everyone entering the country. (At airports now, next year everywhere).

I will be moving to Thailand soon and am elegible for either a O or O-A visa. If they require income, I will supply it, if they require money in the bank, I will put it there.

Consider what Thailand would be like if they just ignored all imigration laws and opened the borders....

Just because you were able to use a poorly defined law in Thailand to live and work there for years past does not convey any rights to continue to do so.

Anytime you think you are treated "unfairly" just compare your plight to the white citizens of Zimbabwe.

Now that was unfair....

[gankeowan]

" ... With very kind regards,
Francie L"


How refreshing to read Francie L's post: rational, reasonable, reliable.

a breath of fresh air.

thanks!

[jberwick]

Hi all,

I am a bit confused about the changes and also about what visas I may be eligible for... perhaps someone here can give me some advice based on my situation... I'd appreciate it.

I am in my mid-30's and have done quite well in business... I don't really need to work to have money as my own investments give me a good income.

I am a Canadian citizen but have no interest in ever living in Canada again... I much prefer to just travel the world... however, over the last year I have really liked Thailand a lot and have spent a lot of time there.

I like it so much that I have begun to look at buying a condo in Bangkok... but this news on the visa changes worries me... I'd like to be able to live in Thailand most of the year (ie. more than 180 days)... I never minded having to leave Thailand every 30 days too much because there are so many fun places to visit a short, and fairly cheap, flight away that I didn't mind.

But if I understand correctly, now I absolutely cannot stay in Thailand more than 90 days every 180 days, correct?

If so, do I have any options given my situation? Would buying a place in Thailand give me any special status?

I've read on this site about the 'investor visa'... while I am considering maybe opening a nightclub in Bangkok, I am a long way away from that changing from an idea into a reality... and even if I did, I wouldn't want to spend the $8m baht+ that is required to get this visa.

Am I eligible for any other visa?

I have a thai gf that I really like... I hate marriage and would never do it, but if I were to go and sign a paper somewhere saying I married her, would that change anything?

It is too bad that us humans have banded into tribes and regulated our own lives so much that one cannot just live where they want to live... people talk about 'freedom' but then they put up walls, borders, police and regulations to keep people they don't "like" out... it's ridiculous... but that is for another post at another time.

In the meantime, can anyone give me any advice on how I may be able to spend a good portion of my time in Thailand without being put in jail?

Thanks!

[ramidin]

midas, on 2007-01-26 22:14:42, said:

sydmike, on 2007-01-25 09:44:33, said:

This is my first post so please be gently.

I come to Thialand every month (from Aistralia) as part of a business consulting group in IT services. I spend from 2 to 30 days in Thailand but usually 5 to 12 days. Have been doing this for 4 years and have always used the 30day Visa on arrival.

I have been waiting to see how they are going to enforce the 90 out of 180 day limit of stay usng the 30 day visa on arrival as Icould be affacted.

Arrived last night at the airport (25th JAN), nearly 4 months into the new system. Thought it may have been automated - how wrong I was.

The immigration official lokked at my passport and saw the mant entries to Thailadn in the past - she asked me how many days I had spend in Thailand since the 1st of October and I said "about 60". She then went through the passport and identified all the entries and exits since the 1st of October 2006. She added up the days and came to 64 - therefore I was not granted a 30 days visa but a visa which expires in 26 days.

So a few points to note -

- The enforcment of the 90 in 180 days is as per expected and was fair as per the guidelines I understood.
- The is no elcectronic system to automatically calulate the days used or left in the 180 days period.
- The days are counted as per entries in the passport - if you have two passports then I asume you could use two to stay on two lots of "90 out of 180" and be here the whole time - although illegally.
- It is VERY time consuming - it took a good 15 minutes for her to go through my passport and annoyed the people waiting behind me in the line.
- Adding to the time was the issue that typically Thai immigration officers do not put stamps in a chronoloigal order so she had to go thriugh my passport from page 1 to page 64 to check for all entries from Oct 1.

Cheers,


Mike

Mike why on earth are you putting yourself through all this ? if you are regularly coming here for genuine business purposes and you have
an Austrian passport plus you don't have any criminal record - you should be eligible for an APEC Buiness Travel Card.
This will solve all your problems plus you get to use special lanes at immigration - in some countries it's the diplomatic channel Lane !
I must warn you it will take up to a year to get all your clearances for all 17 participating countries ( the People's Republic of China
takes athe longest ) but you could get an interim card in far shorter time. for places like Thailand they usually only take 8 to 10 weeks
to give you their clearence. I'm telling you in your situation it would be a real investment !

[Howmal]

I have been back and forth to the UK all year and left BKK on the 17th Oct returned on the 14th Nov ...no problem getting in. After 30 days went to Cambodia on Visa run and got another 30 days.. all fine and danny so far

looked in mypassport and notice highlighter pen. 3strikes and your out.. On my second Visa run I was stoppedand told that They would only give me another 17 days and then I would have to get OUT.

I am in process of marrying my second Thai wife after divorce from the first one.

I went to Immirgration on Soi5 Pattaya and They have given me till the 3rd Feb to depart th land of smiles.

They are using manual counting and is done on passport number on computer

Therefore I concluded that Icould in practice return back to UK get new passport and head on back o land of smiles. which is what many will do

I will head home and return under 12 month Visa next time as I will then be married to the second Mrs G

The whole system is a Elm Street night mere and itis going to go under

Just like the BAHT is going to fall out of the sky ....as we have all been looking at what is happening to that


Malachy

[dseawarrior]

gankeowan, on 2007-01-27 02:06:55, said:

" ... With very kind regards,
Francie L"


How refreshing to read Francie L's post: rational, reasonable, reliable.

a breath of fresh air.

thanks!

I agree! Way to go, Francie!

Hip hip hooray!

dseawarrior

[ramidin]

ramidin, on 2007-01-27 02:24:35, said:

midas, on 2007-01-26 22:14:42, said:

sydmike, on 2007-01-25 09:44:33, said:

This is my first post so please be gently.

I come to Thialand every month (from Aistralia) as part of a business consulting group in IT services. I spend from 2 to 30 days in Thailand but usually 5 to 12 days. Have been doing this for 4 years and have always used the 30day Visa on arrival.

I have been waiting to see how they are going to enforce the 90 out of 180 day limit of stay usng the 30 day visa on arrival as Icould be affacted.

Arrived last night at the airport (25th JAN), nearly 4 months into the new system. Thought it may have been automated - how wrong I was.

The immigration official lokked at my passport and saw the mant entries to Thailadn in the past - she asked me how many days I had spend in Thailand since the 1st of October and I said "about 60". She then went through the passport and identified all the entries and exits since the 1st of October 2006. She added up the days and came to 64 - therefore I was not granted a 30 days visa but a visa which expires in 26 days.

So a few points to note -

- The enforcment of the 90 in 180 days is as per expected and was fair as per the guidelines I understood.
- The is no elcectronic system to automatically calulate the days used or left in the 180 days period.
- The days are counted as per entries in the passport - if you have two passports then I asume you could use two to stay on two lots of "90 out of 180" and be here the whole time - although illegally.
- It is VERY time consuming - it took a good 15 minutes for her to go through my passport and annoyed the people waiting behind me in the line.
- Adding to the time was the issue that typically Thai immigration officers do not put stamps in a chronoloigal order so she had to go thriugh my passport from page 1 to page 64 to check for all entries from Oct 1.

Cheers,


Mike

Mike why on earth are you putting yourself through all this ? if you are regularly coming here for genuine business purposes and you have
an Austrian passport plus you don't have any criminal record - you should be eligible for an APEC Buiness Travel Card.
This will solve all your problems plus you get to use special lanes at immigration - in some countries it's the diplomatic channel Lane !
I must warn you it will take up to a year to get all your clearances for all 17 participating countries ( the People's Republic of China
takes athe longest ) but you could get an interim card in far shorter time. for places like Thailand they usually only take 8 to 10 weeks
to give you their clearence. I'm telling you in your situation it would be a real investment !

Mike

Get yourself a multple entry Non_B business visa, most home country consulates turn them round over night with a minimum of fuss.

It is worth the application once a year................

[djc45]

I just can not understand why so many people who visit Thailand frequently just don’t get the one year multi ‘0’entry visa come in and out as many times as you like with no problems 90 days at a time

[jberwick]

I hadn't noticed that was an option until you mentioned it, that's why! But now that I see it is an option I'll be sure to try to get one the next time I am in my home country, thanks for pointing it out! Cheers

djc45, on 2007-01-27 02:40:27, said:

I just can not understand why so many people who visit Thailand frequently just don't get the one year multi '0'entry visa come in and out as many times as you like with no problems 90 days at a time

[Hollywood]

jberwick, on 2007-01-26 12:14:49, said:

Hi all,

I am a bit confused about the changes and also about what visas I may be eligible for... perhaps someone here can give me some advice based on my situation... I'd appreciate it.

I am in my mid-30's and have done quite well in business... I don't really need to work to have money as my own investments give me a good income.

I am a Canadian citizen but have no interest in ever living in Canada again... I much prefer to just travel the world... however, over the last year I have really liked Thailand a lot and have spent a lot of time there.

I like it so much that I have begun to look at buying a condo in Bangkok... but this news on the visa changes worries me... I'd like to be able to live in Thailand most of the year (ie. more than 180 days)... I never minded having to leave Thailand every 30 days too much because there are so many fun places to visit a short, and fairly cheap, flight away that I didn't mind.

But if I understand correctly, now I absolutely cannot stay in Thailand more than 90 days every 180 days, correct?

If so, do I have any options given my situation? Would buying a place in Thailand give me any special status?

I've read on this site about the 'investor visa'... while I am considering maybe opening a nightclub in Bangkok, I am a long way away from that changing from an idea into a reality... and even if I did, I wouldn't want to spend the $8m baht+ that is required to get this visa.

Am I eligible for any other visa?

I have a thai gf that I really like... I hate marriage and would never do it, but if I were to go and sign a paper somewhere saying I married her, would that change anything?

It is too bad that us humans have banded into tribes and regulated our own lives so much that one cannot just live where they want to live... people talk about 'freedom' but then they put up walls, borders, police and regulations to keep people they don't "like" out... it's ridiculous... but that is for another post at another time.

In the meantime, can anyone give me any advice on how I may be able to spend a good portion of my time in Thailand without being put in jail?

Thanks!

Hello
If I were in your position I would hire Sunbelt Asia to handle everything. If you have been following this topic over the past few months you can see it is best handled by professionals.
Enjoy Thailand.

[kogrutter]

I thought I would have a short stay and used a tourist visa upon entry. Well, Thailand being Thailand, I wound up using the three thirty day visas I was allowed. I hustled back to the States and applied at the DC Thai embassy and was granted a one year multiple entry, virtually overnight. Cost $125.00USD. I'm coming back on the next bus but would like to know if selling to the Thai government at their invitation requires a work permit along with my Class B visa?

[djc45]

the cost of a one year multi entry visa will work out cheaper in the long run and if you re enter just befor you year is up you get an exit date 90 days from your last entry so in effect nearly 15months on a one year multi

Edited by djc45, 2007-01-27 03:15:03.

[jj2]

If I count the days I am here since October 1st its 97. And I just got a 30 day extension at the immigration office. This makes it 127 days within a 148 days period (21 days outside Thailand in almost 5 month). 2 entries at airport 30 days, 1 two month tourist visa, plus a 30 day extension.

[tropo]

jj2, on 2007-01-27 04:53:07, said:

If I count the days I am here since October 1st its 97. And I just got a 30 day extension at the immigration office. This makes it 127 days within a 148 days period (21 days outside Thailand in almost 5 month). 2 entries at airport 30 days, 1 two month tourist visa, plus a 30 day extension.

I just got a 30 day extension at the Immigration Office myself extending my stay until February 27. This adds up to almost 5 months from October 1 on a tourist visa. As it was a 3 entry visa, I'm entitled to exit and return one more time before it expires on Feb 22 if I wish.

[kiakaha]

midas, on 2007-01-26 22:14:42, said:

sydmike, on 2007-01-25 09:44:33, said:

This is my first post so please be gently.

I come to Thialand every month (from Aistralia) as part of a business consulting group in IT services. I spend from 2 to 30 days in Thailand but usually 5 to 12 days. Have been doing this for 4 years and have always used the 30day Visa on arrival.

I have been waiting to see how they are going to enforce the 90 out of 180 day limit of stay usng the 30 day visa on arrival as Icould be affacted.

Arrived last night at the airport (25th JAN), nearly 4 months into the new system. Thought it may have been automated - how wrong I was.

The immigration official lokked at my passport and saw the mant entries to Thailadn in the past - she asked me how many days I had spend in Thailand since the 1st of October and I said "about 60". She then went through the passport and identified all the entries and exits since the 1st of October 2006. She added up the days and came to 64 - therefore I was not granted a 30 days visa but a visa which expires in 26 days.

So a few points to note -

- The enforcment of the 90 in 180 days is as per expected and was fair as per the guidelines I understood.
- The is no elcectronic system to automatically calulate the days used or left in the 180 days period.
- The days are counted as per entries in the passport - if you have two passports then I asume you could use two to stay on two lots of "90 out of 180" and be here the whole time - although illegally.
- It is VERY time consuming - it took a good 15 minutes for her to go through my passport and annoyed the people waiting behind me in the line.
- Adding to the time was the issue that typically Thai immigration officers do not put stamps in a chronoloigal order so she had to go thriugh my passport from page 1 to page 64 to check for all entries from Oct 1.

Cheers,


Mike

Mike why on earth are you putting yourself through all this ? if you are regularly coming here for genuine business purposes and you have
an Austrian passport plus you don't have any criminal record - you should be eligible for an APEC Buiness Travel Card.
This will solve all your problems plus you get to use special lanes at immigration - in some countries it's the diplomatic channel Lane !
I must warn you it will take up to a year to get all your clearances for all 17 participating countries ( the People's Republic of China
takes athe longest ) but you could get an interim card in far shorter time. for places like Thailand they usually only take 8 to 10 weeks
to give you their clearence. I'm telling you in your situation it would be a real investment !

Currently the clearances for Brunei,Phillipines and Thailand are taking the longest.

FYI : the card is not for every tom,dick and harry who wants it, there are eligibility constraints :
http://www.immi.gov....eligibility.htm

[Etherus]

If you are coming so often AND on business, get a 1 year multiple entry visa in Aus and have no issues at all. A tourist visa as I understand it is just that, it is not the immigration that are being especially picky, it sounds like you have tried to do it on the cheap. Try to go the other way and get into Aus on the same basis.

I can't see what your fuss is op.

[kayata]

Get on this,

Went to Philipines for a session away from the wife (don't dirty on your own doorstep)! Came back thought great only 6 people in queue. What a nightmare, 1 hour later I managed to get to the imigration desk. (Now I explain I have a work permit and a 1 year multiple entry non imigrant b visa, had for last 5 years). Now the immigration lady says, you've been in thailand to long we are refusing you entry. I went what, I live and work here pay my taxes and dues, she says sorry you'll have to go to the office over yon to speak to the main immigration officer, so another hour later get seen by chief immigration officer and he took my passport and says why have you come here, you should be through the other side. I said its about time you got some decent staff on that knows what they are doing and capable of doing, and explained that I already missed a very important meeting.

Just a slip of the hic can cause big problems, but I had to queue up for 3 hours, an get no sorry for the hiccups they made.

[tropo]

jj2, on 2007-01-27 04:53:07, said:

If I count the days I am here since October 1st its 97. And I just got a 30 day extension at the immigration office. This makes it 127 days within a 148 days period (21 days outside Thailand in almost 5 month). 2 entries at airport 30 days, 1 two month tourist visa, plus a 30 day extension.

I just got a 30 day extension at the Immigration Office myself extending my stay until February 27. This adds up to almost 5 months from October 1 on a tourist visa. As it was a 3 entry visa, I'm entitled to exit and return one more time before it expires on Feb 22 if I wish. My Filipino GF also received her extension no questioned asked.

If they're restricting all tourist stays to 90 days, why were we so easily extended after having already been here 4 months since October 1?

[btate]

^ Maybe because you have a valid "VISA" and not just a free 30 day on entry.

Looks like the intent of the law is to rid the country of the many 30 day runners.
Those skirting the visa rules and living here without any official recognition are the
folks they are after.

[hagler]

If you are legitimately entering Thialnd for business reasons as often as you say you are then you can solve all your problems and get yourself an APEC card. Gives you 3 years multiple entry and no visa requirements to all countries that are members of APEC ( that includes Thailand). It also means that you have your own very fast customs line just for APEC card holders at all airports. Cant see why you wouldnt have one already if you are legimately doing that much business travel in Asia.

[aussimike]

Artfullmover, on 2007-01-26 12:07:57, said:

I am curious. I gather from your post you are visiting Thailand for work related purposes.

Can this be done with the 30 day visa on arrival?

When you mark your incoming passenger card do you mark the reason for the visit "Holiday" or "Business"?

If you mark "Business" do they ask for more detail and from having many vists wonder why you dont have a work permit?

If you declare you come on a holiday couldnt they do you over if you were found to be working?

I'm not sure on the rules or definitions but am keen to learn for my future plans

Good point as more than 45% of visitors to thailand are actually here on business -- meeting, incentives, etc - not the normal tourist - so if they are arriving and and I know of many who are paid as guest speakers, uni lecturers etc and just doing business, trading or what ever instead of visiting walking street n Pattaya , and whether it be on a entry permit if from a country with waiver agreement such as Aust and thus get in with entry permit stamp (correct not a visa) or visa on arrival they would be on tourist visas and thus illegal. whats the standing on this if they are in fact working, consulting, etc. Be interesting to know the thinking on this on - also one of my staff who has used up her 3 X 30 days tourist stamps has just returned from Penang and got a 60 day tourist visa - no problems = -

[Phuket Dragon]

Quote

The Thai Government looks at each visa (in your case, 90 days) as an entity unto itself and therefore you must show in your passport by stamps that you have exited Thailand and entered another country

FranCiel Europeans get not stampt in or out in the European union so when we fly to Europe and back to Thailand it don't show we entered another country.

Dragon

[Sunny Valentine]

aussimike, on 2007-01-27 08:04:48, said:

Good point as more than 45% of visitors to thailand are actually here on business -- meeting, incentives, etc - not the normal tourist -

Could you let us know from where you gathered this percentage?



Sunny

[chinthai]

sydmike, on 2007-01-25 09:44:33, said:

if you have two passports then I asume you could use two to stay on two lots of "90 out of 180" and be here the whole time

do not think, that it is possible to travel with two passports and the immigration don´t know it.

My wife have two passports (one Thai and one German).
3 years ago, she traveled with the German Passport, then we start to move to Thailand and she changed to the Thai-Passport.
Last year we fly to K.L and she did show her Thai Passport to the immigration on the Airport/ Chiang Mai.
The officer looked in his computer and ask she for the German Passport. After she show him this passport, he checked this shortly and
then he start to talk with my wife.
He know all about her travels, overstay etc.
If you show your second passort, it is possible that he asked you for the another one.

[aussimike]

Sunny Valentine, on 2007-01-27 08:19:49, said:

aussimike, on 2007-01-27 08:04:48, said:

Good point as more than 45% of visitors to thailand are actually here on business -- meeting, incentives, etc - not the normal tourist -

Could you let us know from where you gathered this percentage?



Sunny

sure happy to - from the stats department of TAT - and if you dont know who that is - THE TOURISM AUTHORITY OF THAILAND and if you want any more info let me know -=-
you really dont think that the Thai hotel just cater for tourist - in fact most of the decent hotels in Bkk are geared to the business traveller more than tourists ---