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[Ajarn]

kenkannif, on 2004-11-14 12:41:15, said:

It would go a long way to stopping a lot of kids getting English lessons as well, which is the sad thing!

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Ken, why do you think that?

[kenkannif]

Well because as a lot of people have said those with teaching degrees (to me checking that someone's histroy degree is real, still isn't going to help the 'quality' of teachers improve here so I assume this is only for those with a specific teaching qualifications?) won't work in Thailand for the money that is paid. So you're going to end up with a few teachers at the better paying schools, and zero teachers elsewhere (i.e. at lower paying schools).

Personally I think there should be some kind of tier (sp?) to teaching so those with specific teaching quals would be top of the heap, those with unrelated degrees and a TEFL and/or experience should be next (maybe with TEFL holders with a fair amount of experience on an even level with them) and then TEFL holders with no degree/quals could be working and earning the slightly lower wages. Thus the 'better' paying schools get the 'better' teachers and the 'lower' paying schools can still get a good teacher, for a reasonable wage. Although there should still be some kind of test or something by the MoE to make sure the teachers are at the very least capable of teaching.

At the moment due to fake degrees, etc. you can and do have qualified teachers earning a lot less than a KSR degree holder.

[mbkudu]

Personally I think there should be some kind of tier (sp?) to teaching so those with specific teaching quals would be top of the heap, those with unrelated degrees and a TEFL and/or experience should be next (maybe with TEFL holders with a fair amount of experience on an even level with them) and then TEFL holders with no degree/quals could be working and earning the slightly lower wages. Thus the 'better' paying schools get the 'better' teachers and the 'lower' paying schools can still get a good teacher, for a reasonable wage. Although there should still be some kind of test or something by the MoE to make sure the teachers are at the very least capable of teaching.

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[/quote Kenkannif]

This really makes a lot of sense. I'm glad someone finally said it. A TEFL or CELTA
should be the minimum required to obtain a work permit to teach. Of course big international schools will require more, but it would enable the small schools and language schools to hire teachers and still be legal, teacher is legal/ school is legal.

[Ajarn]

Friom my view, checking degrees will weed out most of the General Bullshitters among teachers, which in itself is a positive advancement in the profession, in my book. People who've invested the years and time getting a tertiary degree signal, to me, a person with the drive and willingness to follow through with things in life, and they might offer me a more honest employee who is maybe more capable and willing in an academic setting.

Weeding out the B.S. folks will also serve to make more work available when applicants are more even... I really don't agree that the salaries here are so low, especially when you compare the cost of living and quality of life here. There are plenty of worse places to teach, like China, Japan, Korea, in my experience.

The only way to save money in most entry-level English teaching gigs is to live as cheaply as possible. With an average salary of 250,000 yen per month in Japan for newbies (govt minimum salary), they'll be eating mostly warm noodles anyway, and forget about saving any real money at that level... Living costs in Korea are also quite high, and the governments and societies in Japan, Korea, and China are much less 'free' than Thailand's, in my experience.

For the career teacher, there will continue to be growing opportunities in Thailand, I believe, with considerably higher salaries than is the common starting point here now.

I feel the only negative effect for students will be likely increases in study fees in response to the introduction of better-qualified teachers.. But, this is the nature of all education as costs increase across the board...

Overall, I believe it will be a boom for teachers and students, but lets not forget that all this talk is still strictly in the rumour stage, TiT  

I also like Ken's idea of a 'tier' system of sorts for teachers. Different qualifications for different teaching needs....

[kenkannif]

They'd also have to do away with the one WP to one classroom rule as this can stop even the most qualified teachers from getting a WP! They need to look at realistic solutions to the problems here, rather than sweeping rules that in the long run, while looking and sounding good, don't really help anyone (schools, teachers and students!).

[nokmdk]

I'm hoping that if they do in fact get a system like this in place that one major thing would happen.
I would love it if they do make the requirment to check the degree before any paper work is started but.... anyway to make it so once this is all done you never have to do it again?? I mean, why not make a registry with all them that have done it and then they have no need to re-do WP ect... maybe im just in dream land

[PeaceBlondie]

I try not to get excited by any rumors about MoE requirements, unless they come from local (provincial) authorities who actually regulate my own employment.    I've only been here 18 months, and can't see that this beautiful kingdom is based upon the rule of law.  I can admire a well-run governments but don't see it here, which is okay.

What percent of the farang teaching ESL in Thailand have the proper visa, work permit, and teacher's license?  Less than 25%, I'll guess.  What % have a real bachelor's degree, related to what they teach?  Less than 20%, maybe.

I think we have a tier system in Thailand for ESL.  The big international schools, the better universities, the best private language school positions - and everything else.

[mbkudu]

PeaceBlondie, on 2004-11-20 11:34:53, said:

I try not to get excited by any rumors about MoE requirements, unless they come from local (provincial) authorities who actually regulate my own employment.    I've only been here 18 months, and can't see that this beautiful kingdom is based upon the rule of law.  I can admire a well-run governments but don't see it here, which is okay.

What percent of the farang teaching ESL in Thailand have the proper visa, work permit, and teacher's license?  Less than 25%, I'll guess.  What % have a real bachelor's degree, related to what they teach?  Less than 20%, maybe.

I think we have a tier system in Thailand for ESL.  The big international schools, the better universities, the best private language school positions - and everything else.

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What's interesting to me is that the "everyhting else," jobs pay more than government universities and language schools.  

[Ajarn]

mbkudu, on 2004-11-20 11:57:14, said:

PeaceBlondie, on 2004-11-20 11:34:53, said:

I try not to get excited by any rumors about MoE requirements, unless they come from local (provincial) authorities who actually regulate my own employment.    I've only been here 18 months, and can't see that this beautiful kingdom is based upon the rule of law.  I can admire a well-run governments but don't see it here, which is okay.

What percent of the farang teaching ESL in Thailand have the proper visa, work permit, and teacher's license?  Less than 25%, I'll guess.  What % have a real bachelor's degree, related to what they teach?  Less than 20%, maybe.

I think we have a tier system in Thailand for ESL.  The big international schools, the better universities, the best private language school positions - and everything else.

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What's interesting to me is that the "everyhting else," jobs pay more than government universities and language schools.  

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How many such examples of 'Thai Style' can you think of?  

[treefrog]

Hi Steven,

Thanks for this very informative thread - I have been reading with great interest. I'd like to ask your advice. I'm coming out to BKK in Jan with my family (husband & 2 small kids) becaue he's on secondment there for 2 years. I have a BA and CTEFLA, plus about 3 years' experience, mainly in general and business English. I've taught all ages. I haven't taught since 1999, being a full-time mother, but I'd like to get back into teaching at least part-time. We'll be based somewhere near Ekamai. What sort of schools do I have the best chance of getting work in?

[Ijustwannateach]

Well, one question is really how determined you are to work ONLY part-time, because as far as your qualifications are concerned you're probably doing better than about 70% of the people who are actually teaching English in Thailand.  Your skills will certainly be in demand.

Assuming that visas and so forth are not a problem because of your husband's job, you can get full or part time work just about anywhere with any type of school, given time and determination.  It would help to know more about your goals.  Do you want to teach adults or children?  Daytime or evenings?  Weekdays or weekends?  Full or part-time or both?

"Steven"

[ray23]

I have an Associates degree and many upper division courses completed, but do not have a B.A.

I have taught in the past in my career in Law Enforcement. I have thought about offering courses to the local cops.

I'm also retired and have an annual visa now. I have taught as a volunteer at a local University and truly enjoyed it. The TEFL is a committment of several months that I can do. I think I would feel much more comfortable with teaching if I had the approproate guidelines. I would really like to see the students get the benefit for thier time in taking the classes.

I guess a little extra money wouldn't hurt anyhting but I really don't need it

What I'm worried about is messing up my annual.

This is kind of a grey area to me, volunteering.

Anyway if a AA qaulifies me to teach then I would pursue the TEFL.

Any Thoughts?


--------------------

ray fisher

[Ijustwannateach]

Not sure what kind of annual visa you have... on many of them you can indeed get legal WPs...

That said, wish I had 100 baht for every teacher doing work on the side that wasn't covered by a separate work permit, or even for every teacher working full time without a work permit for his main job!

The Thai law is a little fuzzy- work is work even if it doesn't count for benefits, but then there are volunteer organizations here... so what the heck?  I dunno....

"Steven"

[ray23]

Ijustwannateach, on 2004-12-08 07:29:48, said:

Not sure what kind of annual visa you have... on many of them you can indeed get legal WPs...

That said, wish I had 100 baht for every teacher doing work on the side that wasn't covered by a separate work permit, or even for every teacher working full time without a work permit for his main job!

The Thai law is a little fuzzy- work is work even if it doesn't count for benefits, but then there are volunteer organizations here... so what the heck?  I dunno....

"Steven"

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Thank you Steven

[Ijustwannateach]

No prob!  and here's a post [started in another thread elsewhere   ] from member ZOVOX:

Quote

I have two Bachelor degrees in Mathematics and Mechanical engineering, but i have no teaching certificate or experience - would i still be able to teach in Thailand ?

I assume that i would have to be able to speak thai to teach mathematics or science, but would i be able to teach english, being a native english speaker and having degrees ?

The answer to your first question is yes, definitely.  The answer to your second is also yes, and that your assumption about teaching math and science in Thai is wrong- if you were doing that, you'd be competing with Thai teachers- typically a no-no in the Kingdom.

You can do much better teaching math or science here as a subject in English in the various EP programs.  Of course, you can teach English everywhere.  However, the entry level and upward mobility are much better with math and science- market forces at work.

The lack of any teaching experience is a minus, however- would suggest you might want to do English teaching for awhile just to get used to teaching itself and decide if it's for you or not.  The pay will be lower, but then you're paying your dues.  If you're cut out for it, you can apply later for the math/science jobs in a much better position to sell yourself as a *teacher*.

This kind of work will also give you connections that will be useful to you in your job hunt later (assuming you don't completely blow it!).  If you're not confident in your skills as a starting English teacher, I'd highly recommend some sort of TEFL training first.

"Steven"

[ZOVOX]

Ijustwannateach, on 2004-12-08 17:13:09, said:

No prob!  and here's a post [started in another thread elsewhere  ] from member ZOVOX:

Quote

I have two Bachelor degrees in Mathematics and Mechanical engineering, but i have no teaching certificate or experience - would i still be able to teach in Thailand ?

I assume that i would have to be able to speak thai to teach mathematics or science, but would i be able to teach english, being a native english speaker and having degrees ?

The answer to your first question is yes, definitely.  The answer to your second is also yes, and that your assumption about teaching math and science in Thai is wrong- if you were doing that, you'd be competing with Thai teachers- typically a no-no in the Kingdom.

You can do much better teaching math or science here as a subject in English in the various EP programs.  Of course, you can teach English everywhere.  However, the entry level and upward mobility are much better with math and science- market forces at work.

The lack of any teaching experience is a minus, however- would suggest you might want to do English teaching for awhile just to get used to teaching itself and decide if it's for you or not.  The pay will be lower, but then you're paying your dues.  If you're cut out for it, you can apply later for the math/science jobs in a much better position to sell yourself as a *teacher*.

This kind of work will also give you connections that will be useful to you in your job hunt later (assuming you don't completely blow it!).  If you're not confident in your skills as a starting English teacher, I'd highly recommend some sort of TEFL training first.

"Steven"

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Thanks ! What is 'EP programs' ? And how do i get started on one ?

[Ijustwannateach]

I think you might want to start reading at the top of this thread and keep going, and then read most of the rest of the threads in this forum.  Unless you want me to unscrew the top of my head and pull out my brain and fax it to you through the web!      The short answer to your question is that EP means "English program," and it is typically an all-English program run by a regular or private Thai school at the elementary or high school level.  You can get started by finding one and applying at it.

The long answer is contained in all of the threads in this forum.  I'd also suggest you read the other pinned thread about what newbies should do to start out.

"Steven"

[Ijustwannateach]

New Poster Endlessnights recently posted this:

Quote

ah okay I feel so lost and I'm going to try not to sound like a newbie and post stupid questions.. I have rest a LOT about this stuff, but I am still LOST. please don't be too hard on me

here's my situation: I'm currently in thailand and I want to Teach. I have a BA in Economics and took went to a computer school for certifications (I actually only have my MCP, but I took the MSCE course). I have no teaching experience. I have no TEFL certificate or anything like that.

Ideally, I would like to teach at an International School teaching subjects like Math or Science, or better yet, computers. Where do these schools advertise? I do not see many postings like these - mostly to teach English. That is another thing, I am willing to teach English as well as long as it's something like mon-fri 8-4.. I dont' care,, I just need a job.

also about the TEFL cert.. does it matter where you get it? most postings do not say xx amount of hours for TEFL course or anything like that. someone mentioned that it's good for it to be associated with an accredited university.. is something like http://www.teflonline.com or http://onlinetefl.com ok?? the problem with getting a tefl cert is that I have no money! courses like telfintl.com are over 1000 dollars.. I've already been living in bkk for a few months and that is a LOT of money. any other recommendations? if I end up spending money on a real course, I absolutely want to be placed.

I am also looking to make 30K/month.. is this realistic?

thank you

Well, as I mentioned in your thread, you should really read all of this thread, plus the "Suggestions For Newbies" about how to start getting the information you need as a teacher and where to look for jobs.  Many of the questions you've asked are answered already here in this thread.  However, I'll give you some specific answers:

As far as academic degrees are concerned, you're set.  However, without a genuine teaching qualification, plus probably some experience teaching elsewhere, plus probably some contacts at the schools, you'll never teach in the Big International Schools here.  Not to worry, though, because there are plenty of would-be international schools (with a little 'i') starting up which have much lower standards (and lower salaries offered).  Even those schools would probably prefer to see you have some experience, however-  teaching *anything* to a bunch of M.1 monkeys is no joke if you haven't tried it before.

So you'd be best off starting with teaching English.  TEFL is not necessarily required, but smooths the way and gets you into better jobs.  Without TEFL and without any experience, you're probably looking at the absolute newbie jobs- which, luckily for you, do come in the 25K-30K range, depending on how serious the school is and how serious you are.  Don't bet your life you'll get a work permit, though.  Save up, teach a year, get a TEFL sooner or later (and cut down on those mysterious "expenses"    - if the Thais can live here on 5K a month, surely you can manage to save $1000 for a TEFL course at 30K) and you'll graduate to a higher standard of jobs- say, 35-40K.  Then with a few years of teaching under your belt you can look for even better pastures- subject teaching math or science in one of the "lesser" internationals (with a small 'i').  Good luck!

"Steven"

[endlessnights]

thanks for your help Steven, I actually didn't know that "pinned" threads were still active.

sorry

thanks for the info.

are English teaching jobs available all year round?

I may just take a TEFL course.. I'm only here for maybe 2yrs, maybe even one.. then back to the states I go.  I dont need a work permit, I'm a thai national (though I don't speak Thai.. but signing up for classes soon!).  I may contact TAT to see if there are any job opportunites for me.

Ijustwannateach, on 2004-12-14 11:21:12, said:

New Poster Endlessnights recently posted this:

Quote

ah okay I feel so lost and I'm going to try not to sound like a newbie and post stupid questions.. I have rest a LOT about this stuff, but I am still LOST. please don't be too hard on me

here's my situation: I'm currently in thailand and I want to Teach. I have a BA in Economics and took went to a computer school for certifications (I actually only have my MCP, but I took the MSCE course). I have no teaching experience. I have no TEFL certificate or anything like that.

Ideally, I would like to teach at an International School teaching subjects like Math or Science, or better yet, computers. Where do these schools advertise? I do not see many postings like these - mostly to teach English. That is another thing, I am willing to teach English as well as long as it's something like mon-fri 8-4.. I dont' care,, I just need a job.

also about the TEFL cert.. does it matter where you get it? most postings do not say xx amount of hours for TEFL course or anything like that. someone mentioned that it's good for it to be associated with an accredited university.. is something like http://www.teflonline.com or http://onlinetefl.com ok?? the problem with getting a tefl cert is that I have no money! courses like telfintl.com are over 1000 dollars.. I've already been living in bkk for a few months and that is a LOT of money. any other recommendations? if I end up spending money on a real course, I absolutely want to be placed.

I am also looking to make 30K/month.. is this realistic?

thank you

Well, as I mentioned in your thread, you should really read all of this thread, plus the "Suggestions For Newbies" about how to start getting the information you need as a teacher and where to look for jobs.  Many of the questions you've asked are answered already here in this thread.  However, I'll give you some specific answers:

As far as academic degrees are concerned, you're set.  However, without a genuine teaching qualification, plus probably some experience teaching elsewhere, plus probably some contacts at the schools, you'll never teach in the Big International Schools here.  Not to worry, though, because there are plenty of would-be international schools (with a little 'i') starting up which have much lower standards (and lower salaries offered).  Even those schools would probably prefer to see you have some experience, however-  teaching *anything* to a bunch of M.1 monkeys is no joke if you haven't tried it before.

So you'd be best off starting with teaching English.  TEFL is not necessarily required, but smooths the way and gets you into better jobs.  Without TEFL and without any experience, you're probably looking at the absolute newbie jobs- which, luckily for you, do come in the 25K-30K range, depending on how serious the school is and how serious you are.  Don't bet your life you'll get a work permit, though.  Save up, teach a year, get a TEFL sooner or later (and cut down on those mysterious "expenses"    - if the Thais can live here on 5K a month, surely you can manage to save $1000 for a TEFL course at 30K) and you'll graduate to a higher standard of jobs- say, 35-40K.  Then with a few years of teaching under your belt you can look for even better pastures- subject teaching math or science in one of the "lesser" internationals (with a small 'i').  Good luck!

"Steven"

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[Ijustwannateach]

The best time to look for work is just before terms begin, which for most schools is April-ish and October-ish.  Some of the true blue big-I Internationals follow foreign term schedules, but from your itinerary I don't think you need to be worried about them.  If you could wait until this April you'd be a shoe-in for some type of decent job.

However, the not-so-decent jobs are typically available all the time (because people keep leaving them)- and occasionally a good job will open up as a result of an accident or emergency- but the good ones tend to get filled with friends-of-friends, etc., which is why it's best to stay for awhile and make contacts if you want a really *good* job.

If I were you, only planning to be here 1-2 years, why bother with the TEFL qualification?  I mean, if you had the extra money, ok, but you're already worried about funds- most of the 25K-30K places aren't going to worry *that* much if you have TEFL or not- it's more for YOUR peace of mind and confidence at places like that.

Good luck, but if you really want a nice job you have to stay here awhile and work at it- just the way things go here.

[kenkannif]

As a Thai (unless you have dual nationality, which I'm guessing you do? And even then it will be hard if you 'look' Asian) don't expect to earn 20-30,000 with zero training and no experience. A farang probably could, but you (as an Asian teacher) will struggle to do so IMHO!

Edited by kenkannif, 2004-12-14 16:34:58.

[endlessnights]

I have dual.. born in the states.. I can hardly speak thai.  but anyway, I keep hearing things like that.. like it's harder to get a teaching job if you're thai/asian.. or that you will get paid lower.. but has anyone here actually experienced this?

I did a trial run teaching at an english language school just to see what it's like.. and they wanted me right away.. I taught a few classes and the kids absolutely LOVED me.. esp the girls.  I know it's not the kids that do the hiring but the parents and employers should really consider this.

kenkannif, on 2004-12-14 16:07:48, said:

As a Thai (unless you have dual nationality, which I'm guessing you do? And even then it will be hard if you 'look' Asian) don't expect to earn 20-30,000 with zero training and no experience. A farang probably could, but you (as an Asian teacher) will struggle to do so IMHO!

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[kenkannif]

I know Thais and Asians that are indeed paid lower 'cos they're Thai or Asian. On the other hand I know the odd dual nationality (and even some 100% Thais) that have got a rate similar to that of a farang! It definitely happens here. Quite often the parents are as much paying for a white face (sad but true) as they are for the teaching. In fact I'd probably say they'd (the schools that would consider taking on an untrained/inexperienced teacher) prefer a 4-6 week Western looking TEFLer to a 3-4 year Thai or Asian BEd!

Edited by kenkannif, 2004-12-15 09:22:13.

[meds]

I have read a load of posted replies but can not really figure out where I fit in respect to qualifications. I passed English A and B with distinction at upper secondary and am now, several years later, doing the later half of my studies at the Teachers Academy in Malmoe (Sweden), striving to become an upper secondary English teacher.

I have been planning a sabbatical but after reading what´s posted here I´m not too sure my qualifications would be considered adequate.
Beside the studies of English at university level for three terms, I´ve studied some methodology, pedagogy, didactics and rhethoric (embedded in the English studies) and have also had 16 weeks of practise with both adult learners and children at ages between 13-16. But, the big "but" here is that I will not recieve any formal note on paper as to provide with job applications until fully finished. I could probably get some validation on where I am in my studies and what my qualifications would be at this point, but it wouldn´t be stated as a formal degree.

Oh yeh, to be clear, my question is:
What are my chances at the Thai market of teachers?

Edited by meds, 2005-01-10 23:57:47.

[Ijustwannateach]

Where you stand:

1.  You have no degree.
2.  You have a certain number of hours in educational courses.
3.  You have no apparent actual teaching experience.

For EP programs or international schools, I'd say you're doing kinda shaky- I'm not the Ministry, but I'm under the impression they like to see at least 2 out of 3 of the above, for most serious teaching (subject teaching in EP programs and so forth).  Their official requirement for teachers is actually to have people with B.Ed "or equivalent," where the equivalent is fairly liberally interpreted.

For TEFL, you're looking promising but still a newbie, and if you were looking for a WP you'd probably need to cough up a TEFL along the way.

You're apparently already on the way to a real teaching degree- why spoil it now?  Finish it out and qualify for the really, really posh jobs here and THEN come over!

"Steven"