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[Briggsy]

siamesekitty, on 2008-03-16 17:06:43, said:

Briggsy, on 2008-03-16 14:26:31, said:

ร.ต.ต. I'm sure it's a police rank. Maybe รอง ตำรวจ ต.... It's a headline from today's Daily News (17 March) about a copper who fell out of the back of a pick-up and was run over by at least one following car.

What sad news


ร.ต.ต. = ร้อยตำรวจตรี (Police Sub-Lieutenant)

The complete list of police (and other) ranks can be found on Thai Wikipedia.

Thank you. That was an interesting and useful reference.

[DavidHouston]

The following is from this week's Matichon Weekly; it discusses the historical background of the current debate regarding casino gambling.  In particular the following discusses religious morality as a basis to make legal decisions.  My problem is in understanding the last sentence of the following:
_____________
ที่สำคัญ ในความเป็นจริง หากจะใช้บรรทัดฐานทางศาสนามาตัดสินเรื่องการจัดการทางการเมืองสมัยใหม่แล้ว

     What is important, in truth, if one were to use religious morality as a standard to make political decisions in today's modern environment, . . .

     ไม่เพียงแต่เรื่องกาสิโน แต่อีกสารพัดเรื่อง ตั้งแต่สลากกินแบ่ง ไปถึงเหล้า หรือ ถุงยางอนามัย ล้วนต้องยกเลิกโดยสิ้นเชิงหรือจำกัดอย่างรุนแรง ซึ่งไม่มีใครคิดว่า สามารถทำได้ในสังคมสมัยใหม่

  . . . [one would have to apply these standards] not only with respect to casino gambling but also with respect to many other issues including [consumption of] liquor or [the use of] condoms . . .  

     ล้วนต้องยกเลิกโดยสิ้นเชิงหรือจำกัดอย่างรุนแรง ซึ่งไม่มีใครคิดว่า สามารถทำได้ในสังคมสมัยใหม่

      . . . all of these [vices and devices] would be abandoned in their entirety or strictly controlled and there is no one who thinks that this would be possible in today's society.
___________________
In this context, please help me understand the following sentence which concludes the paragraph:

"การอภิปรายโดยอิงอยู่กับประเด็นศีลธรรมเชิงศาสนาจึงมีแต่ลงเอยที่การ ปากว่าตาขยิบ ไม่คงเส้นคงวา ในหลายๆ ด้านเท่านั้น"

with the following relevant vocabulary:

ลงเอย   [V] end up; stop; finish; conclude
ปากว่าตาขยิบ – to say one thing and mean another; to be a hypocrite; to say something with one's fingers crossed
คงเส้นคงวา   [V] be stable; be constant; be consistent; be steady  Syn. เสมอต้นเสมอปลาย, สม่ำเสมอ

Thank you for your assistance.

Edited by DavidHouston, 2008-03-18 11:52:21.

[meadish_sweetball]

This is how I understand it, roughly:

Hence, when one [approaches this issue] reasoning from a religious/moralistic point of view, [one] will find [oneself] at a 'dead end of hypocrisy', as it will only make one look inconsistent in many, many ways.

The rationale for this conclusion is in the context you translated above, so even if I have missed or twisted some part of the sentence, I still think the conclusion must be the same.

An alternative:

Thus, when trying to reason from a religious/moralistic stance, one will inevitably end up looking hypocritical, since it is in so many ways inconsistent.

Not altogether satisfied with either translation.

[aanon]

i broadly agree with meadish, but i read it as (ปากว่าตาขยิบ & ไม่คงเส้นคงวา) ในหลายๆ ด้าน:

"การอภิปรายโดยอิงอยู่กับประเด็นศีลธรรมเชิงศาสนาจึงมีแต่ลงเอยที่การ ปากว่าตาขยิบ ไม่คงเส้นคงวา ในหลายๆ ด้านเท่านั้น"
an argument from religious morality will only ever end up in hypocrisy and inconsistency.

i'm not sure that the [on a number of fronts] actually adds anything to the meaning of the English sentence, and to me it makes the sentence less elegant, so i cheated and left it out. hehe...

all the best.

[bannork]

aanon, on 2008-03-18 15:01:44, said:

i broadly agree with meadish, but i read it as (ปากว่าตาขยิบ & ไม่คงเส้นคงวา) ในหลายๆ ด้าน:

"การอภิปรายโดยอิงอยู่กับประเด็นศีลธรรมเชิงศาสนาจึงมีแต่ลงเอยที่การ ปากว่าตาขยิบ ไม่คงเส้นคงวา ในหลายๆ ด้านเท่านั้น"
an argument from religious morality will only ever end up in hypocrisy and inconsistency.

i'm not sure that the [on a number of fronts] actually adds anything to the meaning of the English sentence, and to me it makes the sentence less elegant, so i cheated and left it out. hehe...

all the best.

I'm wondering if we could use ' pay lip service to' for ปากว่าตาขยิบ I agree with Aanon about the redundancy of ในหลายๆ ด้าน but if we wanted to include it perhaps we could say something like -
Any debate based on religious morality will only result in lip service, hypocrisies and inconsistences from the many sides\ perspectives considered.

[DavidHouston]

Thanks to all three of you for those excellent suggestions; you have enlightened me as to the meaning of the sentence.  I sure would like to know whether the structure of the Thai sentence itself left something to be desired.  Seems to me that all three of you got the gist correct: that civil and legal decisions based solely on religious principles can only result in hypocrisies and inconsistencies in practice.  

I especially like Aanon's use of the phrase "hypocrisy and inconsistency" since it lilts well off the English tongue.  As for "ในหลายๆ ด้าน", might we use the phrase "in practice" or "as a practical matter"?

Great job; thanks again.

Edited by DavidHouston, 2008-03-18 16:58:12.

[aanon]

DavidHouston, on 2008-03-18 20:56:52, said:

Thanks to all three of you for those excellent suggestions; you have enlightened me as to the meaning of the sentence.  I sure would like to know whether the structure of the Thai sentence itself left something to be desired.  Seems to me that all three of you got the gist correct: that civil and legal decisions based solely on religious principles can only result in hypocrisies and inconsistencies in practice.  

I especially like Aanon's use of the phrase "hypocrisy and inconsistency" since it lilts well off the English tongue.  As for "ในหลายๆ ด้าน", might we use the phrase "in practice" or "as a practical matter"?

Great job; thanks again.

david,

from my point of view the original sentence is ok. is there something about the structure you would like to look at further?

as for "in practice", i guess that would highlight that the problem lies in applying ideals to, well, practice. being strict, i think that it's adding something that ในหลาย ๆ ด้าน doesn't really convey. then again, it does fit the context of the whole paragraph well. hmm...

all the best.

[DavidHouston]

Aanon,

I know we discussed translation in many prior posts but perhaps the discussion bears reconsideration.  I know that you are a professional translator and I very much value your experience in this matter.  My thoughts are that there are at least three steps in the translation process: 1. reading and understanding the passage in the original langauge; 2. translating the passage in to a rough draft in the target language; and, 3. refining the passage so that at the end, the passage sounds like it was written originally in the target langauge.  If the passage is not too challenging, one goes directly from step 1 to step 3.  However, the more difficult the original, the more effort must be spent on steps 1 and 2.  The issues I present on this forum are those in which I am having difficulty with step 1.  

Of course, on many occasions, the process is iterative.  After completing step 3, one sometimes needs to return to step 1 to see if indeed the refined target translation does indeed reflect the original author's intent.  

You raise a good point on the translation of "ในหลายๆ ด้าน", as "from the many sides\ perspectives considered" or "as a practical matter".  I now agree with you that the first, as recommended by Baanork, is probably closer to the author's original intent; the latter lilted better of my tongue.  One should not, however, allow one's personal style to intrude to extensively on what the original author was trying to relate.

Thanks again for all your help.  I would appreciate any translation pointers you might have.  (BTW, I am not a professional translator nor am I engaged in any renumerative capacity at present.)

[meadish_sweetball]

To be perfectly honest, I still don't fully see what ในหลายๆ ด้าน is supposed to refer to - is it supposed to be

"angles from which one considers gambling"?

"different aspects involved in the issue of gambling"?

or something else altogether?

[DavidHouston]

meadish_sweetball, on 2008-03-19 19:40:46, said:

To be perfectly honest, I still don't fully see what ในหลายๆ ด้าน is supposed to refer to - is it supposed to be

"angles from which one considers gambling"?

"different aspects involved in the issue of gambling"?

or something else altogether?

Me too!  In addition I have difficulty figuring out what the tag phrase "เท่านั้น" on to the "ในหลายๆ ด้าน" means in the context of the whole.

[meadish_sweetball]

I think เท่านั้น just acts to add emphasis. In Thai, it finishes the sentence, but in English it would be placed elsewhere, as below.

That would be nothing but [nothing short of] a waste of time.

'mii dtae kaan sia weelaa bplao bplao thaonan' มีแต่การเสียเวลาเปล่าๆ เท่านั้น

[DavidHouston]

From a short story in a newspaper dated November 5, 2004:

    ___________________________


มือใหม่หัดขาย

  A New Hand at the Store

ข้าพเจ้าสังเกตนักขายอาชีพ พวกเขาล้วนคล่องแคล่ว

  I began to observe professional sales persons [and saw that] they were all very skilled.

    พวกเขามีโต๊ะยาวเฉพาะกิจ ขาสองด้านพับได้ เหมือนแบกกระดานแผ่นใหญ่มาแผ่นหนึ่ง

    They have long tables which are used specifically [for sales] and which have foldable legs.  It’s like carrying a very large board around.


  จัดแจงกางขาออกข้างหนึ่งและอีกข้างหนึ่ง ตั้งโต๊ะแล้วสลัดผ้าคลุมพรึ่บ

    They set up and stretch their legs out on one side of the table; and, on the other side they fling out a table cloth.


  บางเจ้าผ้าคลุมโต๊ะจับจีบระบายเสียด้วย และชื่อเสียงแบรนด์เนมของพวกเขาห้อยแขวนลงมาจากโครงหลังคาเต๊นท์

  Some [shop] owners feature elaborate pleated and fringed table skirts and hang brand-name signs from tented ceilings.  

    บ้างเป็นแผ่นอคิลิก บ้างเป็นผืนผ้า

  Some of these signboards are made from acrylic; some are make from cloth.

    จากนั้นสินค้าทยอยมาด้วยรถเข็น จัดวางลงบนโต๊ะอย่างลงตัวพร้อมจำหน่าย

  From there [once the site is prepared] the goods are unloaded one handcart after another on the table and arranged exactly in the right place, ready for sale.    


    My question is on the last sentence:

ในขณะที่มือใหม่หัดขายอย่างข้าพเจ้าเก้ๆ กังๆ เดี๋ยวนั่นตก เดี๋ยวนู่นร่วง พกความประหม่ามาตากหน้าด้วย

         [All this is taking place] while a new hand, like myself, practices his selling [techniques] in an awkward and clumsy manner.  Something falls down here; other things fall off there.  My embarrassment is obvious to everyone.
_________________


เก้กัง [เก้ๆ กังๆ]  [ADV] unsteadily; awkwardly; clumsily; ungainly; gawkily; gawkishly

     ประหม่า   [V] feel bashful; be abashed; lose self-confidence; lose courage; be nervous; be embarrassed; take fright

     ตากหน้า   [V] endure shame; be constantly gazed by the public; be shameless enough to (go and ask his mercy)

[aanon]

DavidHouston, on 2008-03-19 22:57:02, said:

meadish_sweetball, on 2008-03-19 19:40:46, said:

To be perfectly honest, I still don't fully see what ในหลายๆ ด้าน is supposed to refer to - is it supposed to be

"angles from which one considers gambling"?

"different aspects involved in the issue of gambling"?

or something else altogether?

Me too!  In addition I have difficulty figuring out what the tag phrase "เท่านั้น" on to the "ในหลายๆ ด้าน" means in the context of the whole.

i think that's right. it refers to "many facets" or "many aspects" of the argument. thinking about what exactly a 'facet of an argument' is, i suppose we might also say 'on many points'. meadish's 'in many ways inconsistent' works too. or we might use another word to suggest a multiplicity of problems, such as 'riddled with hypocrisy and inconsistency'.

agreeing with meadish again, the เท่านั้น means 'mere' or 'merely' (which we would shift to earlier in the sentence) or, in this position, we could use ..."and nothing more".

so, including these various ideas:

...will therefore only ever end up in mere hypocrisy and inconsistency on many points.

a bit unwieldy, but more complete.

all the best.

[DavidHouston]

From today's Matichon:

"พ.ต.ท.ทักษิณ ชินวัตร" อดีตนายกรัฐมนตรี และหัวหน้าพรรคไทยรักไทย แสดงภาวะผู้นำแบบเบ็ดเสร็จเด็ดขาด กำราบกลุ่มการเมือง 8 ก๊ก 9 แซ่ได้อยู่หมัด"

"Thaksin Shinawatra, the former Prime Minister and head of the Thai Rak Thai Party, demonstrated his position as the absolute and sole leader of the party.  He intimidated and subjugated any dissenting political faction and kept them tightly under his thumb."

Question:  What is the meaning of " 8 ก๊ก 9 แซ่" and where does this come from.  The words look to be Chinese; I can find no dictionary reference.  Thanks for your assistance.

[yoot]

DavidHouston, on 2008-04-05 01:49:00, said:

From today's Matichon:

"พ.ต.ท.ทักษิณ ชินวัตร" อดีตนายกรัฐมนตรี และหัวหน้าพรรคไทยรักไทย แสดงภาวะผู้นำแบบเบ็ดเสร็จเด็ดขาด กำราบกลุ่มการเมือง 8 ก๊ก 9 แซ่ได้อยู่หมัด"

"Thaksin Shinawatra, the former Prime Minister and head of the Thai Rak Thai Party, demonstrated his position as the absolute and sole leader of the party.  He intimidated and subjugated any dissenting political faction and kept them tightly under his thumb."

Question:  What is the meaning of " 8 ก๊ก 9 แซ่" and where does this come from.  The words look to be Chinese; I can find no dictionary reference.  Thanks for your assistance.

'
" 8 ก๊ก 9 แซ่" is a new phrase which created by the journalist. It means 'political faction' as you used in your translation.

As for where does this come from, I'm not sure about it. But it sounds like an idiom 'ร้อยแปดพันเก้า' which means 'miscellaneous, various, all sorts of'. They might choose the number 8 and 9 from this idiom and mix with 'ก๊ก' which was from Chinese word for country or clan, and 'แซ่'(Chinese word for surname, family name, family, clan, clique).

Other points on your translation, 'แสดงภาวะผู้นำแบบเบ็ดเสร็จเด็ดขาด' in this phrase there is not any word saying about being a sole leader of the party because he is no longer the leader of the party.    He just demonstrated his decisive leadership.

ได้อยู่หมัด should be translated to 'be completely empowered.'

'under his thumb' should be equal to the Thai  saying 'ในอุ้งมือ'

Both might sound similar in English but in Thai they are different in use.

[DavidHouston]

คุณยุทธ์ครับ,

    Thank you for the explanation of the phrase "แสดงภาวะผู้นำแบบเบ็ดเสร็จเด็ดขาด" as "to demonstrate decisive leadership", rather than "to demonstrate a dictatorial leadership style."

    According the Lexitron, เบ็ดเสร็จ means "[ADV] entirely; in total; altogether; absolutely; completely" while  เด็ดขาด has two meanings: 1. "be decisive; be resolute; be firm; be determined; be resolved and" 2. "absolutely; resolutely; firmly; decisively."

    Like many words describing qualities, a single idea can have multiple shades of meaning, some positive, some negative.  For example in English "thin" is a desirable quality whereas "skinny" is not.  Similarly, "fat" tends to be an undesirable quality in body shape whereas "chubby" is a cute quality.  The phrase "decisive leadership" was used to describe the behavior of Winston Churchill, for example; the phrase "dictatorial leadership", on the other hand, was used for Joseph Stalin.

    Your explanation of the phrase "แสดงภาวะผู้นำแบบเบ็ดเสร็จเด็ดขาด" as showing decisive leadership emphasizes the positive aspect of this political behavior.  Is there a similar phrase which describes behavior in which the leader does not listen to others, either members of his own staff or members of outside groups in a fashion which is not praiseworthy?   It seems that both interpretations are possible using the dictionary definitions of the words.

    Thanks again for your help.

Edited by DavidHouston, 2008-04-06 23:53:18.

[yoot]

Thanks, Khun David, for your explanation.

From your explanation, I think you are right. In this article 'แบบเบ็ดเสร็จเด็ดขาด' doesn't show positive aspect of Taksin for sure, thinking of the source of this article.  

So, it has to be "to demonstrate a dictatorial leadership style' rather than 'to demonstrate decisive leadership". Sorry for my mistake.

'a decisive leadership' should be ภาวะผู้นำที่มีความเด็ดขาด.

Quote

Is there a similar phrase which describes behavior in which the leader does not listen to others, either members of his own staff or members of outside groups in a fashion which is not praiseworthy?

'แบบเบ็ดเสร็จเด็ดขาด' should have a positive meaning but it can be used in sarcastic way like in this article. The direct negative phrase should be 'แบบเผด็จการ'.

[DavidHouston]

Please help me understand the phrase "ตีปลาหน้าไซ".  The book คำคล้องจอง explains as follows:  "พูดหรือทำให้กิจของคนอื่น ซึ่งกำลังดำเนนไปด้วยดีกลับเสียหายไป, ทำให้เขาตื่นกลัว จนเลิกล้มความตั้งใจที่จะทำ ตนเองก็เสียประโยชน์"

    Possibilities for translation include, "to say or do something to interrupt someone while he is getting something accomplished; for one person to alarm a second person which causes the second person to cease his activities and thereby to cause harm to the first person"  (from คำคล้องจอง) How about, "to cut off one's nose to spite one's face" or "to shoot oneself in the foot".

    Here are two sample sentences from the newspaper:

    1.  "แต่ที่สุดแล้ว ก็หลีกหนีคำถามเรื่องตำแหน่งนายกรัฐมนตรีไม่ได้ แต่เขาก็คิดว่า มันเป็นแผนการตีปลาหน้าไซ ตัวเขาเอง"

  "In the end, we cannot avoid the question regarding the position of the prime minister but he believes that this is a plan to ___________ ."

    
2.  "เป็นการดับเครื่องชนในบรรยากาศหลังจาก นายสมัคร สุนทรเวช ออกมาตีปลาหน้าไซในข่าวลือเรื่อง การปฏิวัติ"

  "It's a Kamikaze attack which occurred in the (political) atmosphere after Mr. Samak Suntharawet came out and ___________ regarding the rumor (of another) coup d'état."  

     In addition to explaining the meaning of the term, can you help find one or more English language common phrase or metaphors that convey the same meaning?  

Thanks for your assistance.

Edited by DavidHouston, 2008-04-09 07:28:39.

[DavidHouston]

BTW, before reading example 2 I didn't know that "การดับเครื่องชน" means "Kamikaze attack".  The literal meaning of "turning off the engine and crashing" makes good sense, doesn't it?

[yoot]

DavidHouston, on 2008-04-09 08:26:55, said:

Please help me understand the phrase "ตีปลาหน้าไซ".  The book คำคล้องจอง explains as follows:  "พูดหรือทำให้กิจของคนอื่น ซึ่งกำลังดำเนนไปด้วยดีกลับเสียหายไป, ทำให้เขาตื่นกลัว จนเลิกล้มความตั้งใจที่จะทำ ตนเองก็เสียประโยชน์"

    Possibilities for translation include, "to say or do something to interrupt someone while he is getting something accomplished; for one person to alarm a second person which causes the second person to cease his activities and thereby to cause harm to the first person"  (from คำคล้องจอง) How about, "to cut off one's nose to spite one's face" or "to shoot oneself in the foot".

    Here are two sample sentences from the newspaper:

    1.  "แต่ที่สุดแล้ว ก็หลีกหนีคำถามเรื่องตำแหน่งนายกรัฐมนตรีไม่ได้ แต่เขาก็คิดว่า มันเป็นแผนการตีปลาหน้าไซ ตัวเขาเอง"

  "In the end, we cannot avoid the question regarding the position of the prime minister but he believes that this is a plan to ___________ ."

    
2.  "เป็นการดับเครื่องชนในบรรยากาศหลังจาก นายสมัคร สุนทรเวช ออกมาตีปลาหน้าไซในข่าวลือเรื่อง การปฏิวัติ"

  "It's a Kamikaze attack which occurred in the (political) atmosphere after Mr. Samak Suntharawet came out and ___________ regarding the rumor (of another) coup d'état."  

     In addition to explaining the meaning of the term, can you help find one or more English language common phrase or metaphors that convey the same meaning?  

Thanks for your assistance.

From the book 'สนุกกับสุภาษิตคำพังเพย' by  นิคม เขาลาด has given an English equivalent for this saying as 'upset the applecart' which I think it fits with both of your examples.

[DavidHouston]

I have a question from Professor Nithi’s article this week in Matichon Weekend.  He discusses the disappearance of minor languages in general and in Thailand, in particular, due to economic and other circumstances.  Toward the end of the article is this paragraph:

    “ภาษาชาวเขากลายเป็นธุระของด๊อกเตอร์ทางภาษาศาสตร์ แต่ไม่ใช่ของชาวเขาอีกต่อไป นี่แหละครับ ที่ทำให้คำตอบของนักภาษาเป็นกำปั้นทุบดินเกินไป เพราะเราจะให้ภาษาใดภาษาหนึ่งถูกใช้ต่อไปได้นั้น ต้องทำอะไรมากกว่าการรณรงค์, บรรจุเข้าไปในหลักสูตรการศึกษา, หรือสนับสนุนให้ใช้ภาษานั้นสัปดาห์ละวัน”

    My attempt:

    “The languages of the hill tribes becomes the province of Doctors of Linguistics but is no longer that of the hill tribes themselves.  This, my friends, is what makes the answer of the linguists to flippant and superficial.  Because in order to make any one of these languages useable again, one must do more than just create a campaign, or insert them into the (school) language curriculum, or provide assistance for these languages to be uses once a week. . . . .”

    My question concerns the phrase “กำปั้นทุบดิน”.  Lexitron translates the phrase as “indistinctively” with a Thai definition, “พูดอย่างกว้างๆ , มีนัยว่าพูดไปอย่างไรๆ ก็ไม่ผิด แต่ไม่ได้ให้ประโยชน์อันใดกับผู้ฟัง”.  We might translate this as “to state something very broadly, with a  meaning that is not erroneous but does not provide any real understanding or benefit to the listener.”  Domnern-Sathienpong is a bit clearer in its definition, “smart alecky, smart, flip, fatuous”.  In the above context, I am using the words “flippant and superficial”.

    The phrase “กำปั้นทุบดิน” is clearly a metaphor where the literal meaning is “to pound the dirt with one’s fist.”  I can’t make out how the literal meaning of the phrase becomes the metaphor described and defined.  Perhaps the meaning is locked in Thai rural culture and history, much like in English one might say “to knock on wood” or “to pull one’s ear.”  If anyone knows where the phrase comes from and the relationship with its current meaning, I would appreciate knowing.

    Lexitron’s antonym is similarly mystifying me: แจงสี่เบี้ย   [V] explain in details; give an exposition; elucidate; clarify; expound   Def. อธิบายละเอียดชัดแจ้ง.  Anyone have any ideas?  

    Thanks.

[yoot]

Quote

The phrase “กำปั้นทุบดิน” is clearly a metaphor where the literal meaning is “to pound the dirt with one’s fist.” I can’t make out how the literal meaning of the phrase becomes the metaphor described and defined. Perhaps the meaning is locked in Thai rural culture and history, much like in English one might say “to knock on wood” or “to pull one’s ear.” If anyone knows where the phrase comes from and the relationship with its current meaning, I would appreciate knowing.

Lexitron’s antonym is similarly mystifying me: แจงสี่เบี้ย [V] explain in details; give an exposition; elucidate; clarify; expound Def. อธิบายละเอียดชัดแจ้ง. Anyone have any ideas?

I'm not sure about the origin of this metaphor “กำปั้นทุบดิน” but it's from intead of using proper instrument to pound the dirt you use your fist which you can do it but get no good result from doing that. From this action it's the same of the meaning of this metaphor which on some dictionaries they give the meaning of it as 'อย่างขอไปที' or 'พูดหรือตอบโดยไม่มีเกณฑ์ หรือหาเหตุผลไม่ได้' or even when you answer with truism it can be a “กำปั้นทุบดิน” answer because you can't give a good explanation for your answer. The antonym of this metaphor is แจงสี่เบี้ย because แจงสี่เบี้ย  you can explain in details but “กำปั้นทุบดิน” you can't.

[mangkorn]

Khun yoot: I'm confused. I thought that ขอไปที was one way to ask someone to let you pass by (to walk in front of them). Is that wrong?  

[yoot]

mangkorn, on 2008-04-17 02:15:33, said:

Khun yoot: I'm confused. I thought that ขอไปที was one way to ask someone to let you pass by (to walk in front of them). Is that wrong?  

No, it's not wrong. But from my post it was 'อย่างขอไปที' which is an adverb phrase. It's used when you have done something without paying attetnion on it much just want to get it over. For example; A girl ask you if she is pretty but you don't even bother to look at her you give her the answer 'yes, you are pretty', this action can be explained in Thai as ตอบอย่างขอไปที.  Or, your boss assigns you work to be done but you have done it without paying attention on details and the outcome is not so good. Your boss might say you work (ทำ)อย่างขอไปที.

[mangkorn]

yoot, on 2008-04-17 22:34:11, said:

mangkorn, on 2008-04-17 02:15:33, said:

Khun yoot: I'm confused. I thought that ขอไปที was one way to ask someone to let you pass by (to walk in front of them). Is that wrong?

No, it's not wrong. But from my post it was 'อย่างขอไปที' which is an adverb phrase. It's used when you have done something without paying attetnion on it much just want to get it over. For example; A girl ask you if she is pretty but you don't even bother to look at her you give her the answer 'yes, you are pretty', this action can be explained in Thai as ตอบอย่างขอไปที. Or, your boss assigns you work to be done but you have done it without paying attention on details and the outcome is not so good. Your boss might say you work (ทำ)อย่างขอไปที.

Whew. And thanks for pointing out the difference between the adverbial phrase and the polite request. That helps me greatly to comprehend the former: one wants to "just pass on by/get it over with" the situation at hand, without having to give it too much attention or thought.

Cheers.