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[TonyMontana]

"ive been in samui for 12 years and was told the same as you dont do it i now run one of the most successful bars in samui so if you think you can make it work go for it no matter what people say your going to do want you want to do most people who give negative advice 9 times out of 10 have already failed good luck in what ever you decide"

Totally agree, should all the bars be losing money and all the bar owners be fools.

No way, there must be plenty of money to make - if you know how.

What I dont understand though is why people insist in investing in a bar with only a 3 year lease.
Who want to invest in a place that you dont know if you can keep more than 3 years?

Not the type of business that attracts me, but I would get a place with a much longer lease.

Tony

[womble]

yabs, on 2007-02-24 23:23:35, said:

I wouldn't even considder it
if you have no problem with flushing 40 grand down the drain then go for it
theres only one way to make a SMALL fortune in thailand and thats start with as bloody great big one.
yes all you've heard is true
you will have to pay the police and thai mafia "protection" money. BOLLOX
if your bar gets too popular then you stand a good chance of being shot or done over by competing thai bar owners.
As posters state here only do it if its a hobby and you have other income
if this is your career plan then forget it.
if you want to have fun in thailand and not get into serious strife observe the following rules
never buy property
never get emotionally attached with a bar girl
and number one never do business there
keep all money and assets in the uk
buy property there and live out in LOs on the rent would be my advice

[StickKettleOn]

Womble - my thoughts exactly. The usual 'mafia' scare tactics by uninformed, unqualified idiots. Never in all my time have i ever learnt of one single bar owner (and I know dozens) having a problem with mafia.

Never. Not once. Not a sniff.

Crap crap crap, and more crap from a guy who I believe knows very little about LOS.

[PIKE]

StickKettleOn, on 2007-02-25 12:58:22, said:

Womble - my thoughts exactly. The usual 'mafia' scare tactics by uninformed, unqualified idiots. Never in all my time have i ever learnt of one single bar owner (and I know dozens) having a problem with mafia.

Never. Not once. Not a sniff.

Crap crap crap, and more crap from a guy who I believe knows very little about LOS.

totally agree with you.Once again up he pops talking a load of shite!!

[yabs]

***edited for flame***
of course bar owners won't tell you that but EVERYONE who knows anything about Thailand knows this goes on.
I really can't believe you are so naive. I don't know of one single person who has made loads of money in the long run from bars. Thais are patient. You may be ok for twenty years but eventually the thai partner will do the dirty on you.
Thais don't like succesful falang. They'll wait till the business is built up and then grab it. One of the only long term
bar owners on Phuket eventually had to go back to being a lumberjack in Canada after they tried to sting himn for the lease. Unless you really know what you are doing then no way will you make money. Only "safe" way would be to set up an offshore company and do it that way. even then we are not talking bars so much but maybe a resort or Restaurant.
You are all just showing how little you know about Thailand if you think its easy for Falang to succeed on their own.
What about the owner of the Shark club on Patong/. Successful for years but too successsful so so the thai owner
of one of the competing nightclubs the Tiger had the Falang set up for "lewd" shows. he was shutdown and lost just about everything.

Edited by sbk, 2007-02-25 18:25:31.

[Pompeynick]

hi ya....
I am a bar owner on samui and cannot believe some of the comments and advice being offered to you!

please feel free to PM me and I will be honest in reply to any of your questions.

please remember that some people who use this forum have had bad experiences on samui or in Thailand in general , and others are still enjoying the lifestyle that living here allows.
It's not for everyone , but some of us enjoy being here and do make a living by working here.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

[StickKettleOn]

yabs, on 2007-02-24 23:23:35, said:

I wouldn't even consider it
if you have no problem with flushing 40 grand down the drain then go for it
theres only one way to make a SMALL fortune in Thailand and thats start with as bloody great big one.
yes all you've heard is true
you will have to pay the police and Thai mafia "protection" money.
if your bar gets too popular then you stand a good chance of being shot or done over by competing Thai bar owners.
As posters state here only do it if its a hobby and you have other income
if this is your career plan then forget it.
if you want to have fun in Thailand and not get into serious strife observe the following rules
never buy property
never get emotionally attached with a bar girl
and number one never do business there
keep all money and assets in the UK
buy property there and live out in LOs on the rent would be my advice

CCC - pointless taking advice from a**edit**who has not been to Samui for 2 years and has probably never had a bar.

**flame removed**

>>if you have no problem with flushing 40 grand down the drain then go for it
CCC – do not flush down drain. According to Yabs, none of the drains in Samui dont work anyway. Far better to throw it in the sea and let the toxic waste consumer it. Right, Yabs?


>>theres only one way to make a SMALL fortune in Thailand and thats start with as bloody great big one.
Sigh. Wrong again. I know of many successful Ferang business people who started off with far less than £40,000. My advice would be to chuck £40,000 at a privately run waste management system. Sources inform me this is a sector waiting to burst. Literally.


>>you will have to pay the police and Thai mafia "protection" money.
I ran a bar in Samui. Not once was I approached by Mafia or Police. I know many Ferang bar owners and not once have they been approached by mafia or police. It does not happen. Never.

if your bar gets too popular then you stand a good chance of being shot or done over by competing Thai bar owners
Of course. Paul, the owner of Tropical Murphy's, one of the most if not the most successful Ferang bars in Ko Samui was actually shot and killed years ago. He was replaced by a Thai mafia guy who had plastic surgery in order to look like him. Its all one big conspiracy engineered and supported by the police.

Same same for The Islander, The Deck, The Quarter Deck, and may other successful Ferang bars. None of them are actually alive. All part of the conspiracy folks. Rumour has it that Mario, owner of The Ark Bar and hotel was shot and killed by Taksin in a daring midnight raid involving two dozen ninjas and a CIA Black Op's team. If you happened to be swimming in the toxic waste matter just yards from the bar at 4am in the morning, you would have seen the helicopters landing the troops onto the roof of Arc bar. Taksins son now runs the place, after having extensive plastic suregry in order to look like Mario.


>>As posters state here only do it if its a hobby and you have other income
I believe one poster mentioned that often it is done for a hobby. It must be said these people are in the minority. Most Ferang bar owners enter the business to make money. Lets see.... hobbies in an ideal world;

Golf
Walking the dog in the woods
Snooker
Swimming
Training
Grafting your hairly balls off for 12 hours a day flogging booze.

Does not realy fit the mold does it folks?

>>never buy property
Why? Which uninformed reason care you offer for the simple advice of 'never by property'?

>>never get emotionally attached with a bar girl
What does this have to do with buying a bar?


>>buy property there and live out in LOs on the rent would be my advice
Is that not over simplifying things a little? Guys, seems we have all got it wrong. I suggest we all fly back to our home countries, purchase a house for a few hundred thousand quid, then fly back to LOS and live off the rent. We have all got it so, so, so wrong fellas.

CCC – my take on the subject; (and I have lived on Samui and ran a bar, ok?)

Owning a bar in Samui can be a healthy living if you get it right. More often than not, the chances of making decent money are very, very slim. Bars such as tropical Murphy's, The Islander et al all began many years ago when the lease rates were far cheaper, and established a nice market. That said, for £40,000 you are not in this market anyway. Obviously your market is the smaller variety.

£40,000 will get you a substantial enough bar in most areas outside of Mango. £40,000 in the Mango area will give you a nice enough bar – even bars such as The London Inn which underwent a complete re-build from top to bottom only cost around 2 million, including the lease, cost of build etc. However, I would suggest setting a bar up in a different area. Mango is tough and really, you would probably need girls….. and that would cause massive headaches – mamasans stitching you up, girls letting you down, leaving to work other bars. And anyway, who wants to run a bar with girls? No fun at all. Honestly, its not. You could set up a non girly bar in Mango, but its tough to get right. Take The Pharmacy for example – cost mega bucks to build and completely failed. That said, The Pharmacy was completely unsuited to a tropical island tourist haunt – way too ‘trendy’. The Kangaroo Bar is a good example of Ferang success in the Mango area; owned by a British guy who remained in Britain, and employed a Ferang Manager. The manager would regularly send home £7/8000 month profit to the owner, who only came to Samui twice a year. The reason for this success is simple; big, fun bar, no cheesy loud girls (just service staff), fun employees, great western music and and emphasis on getting pissed in a party atmosphere (vodka red bull buckets cheap, a DJ playing requests etc). Simple formula. Trying to build a bar which would be better suited in London SoHo is asking for trouble. The kangaroo bar was taken over by the Thai owner, when the lease expired. I believe he gave it to fammily. I may be wrong on that, but i believe thats the case. Either way, despite the fact that the british guy who owned it was making a small fortune, the Thai landlord did not shoot him and replace him.... he patiently waited several years until the lease ran out, and then took over.

My advice would be to spend 6 months on the island getting to know the place, and its people. Try setting a bar up on somewhere like Soi Reggae… lots of locals drink down there and these are the guys who would cover your overhead if you get to know them, and set a bar up that the locals would enjoy. Join the pool league. Get palsy with the locals. Make an effort. The few tourists that also come in would give you a little profit. You wouldn’t make a lot of money probably, but I would guess through the year, 30-70K per month profit would be a good guess and you would defiantly not need to spend anything close to £40,000. In this area, you could take over an established Thai owned bar, pay the rent for a couple years in advance, spend a few quid on improving the place and making it look appealing, throw in a decent pool table all for under a million baht. Some may possibly disagree with this, but I know it can be done. If you don’t like your new venture, you can sell. It may take a long time to find a buyer, but you will eventually, if you tire of it. Selling a bar you invested £15,000 in would be easier than selling a bar you invested £40,000 in.

There is one place for sale in Mango right now. I think its going for around 1.5 million, excluding the rent which would be another 500K for the year, paid in advance. The Ferang guy that owns it right now makes around 50/60K per month (I know this for a fact). But it is a small bar, lots of girls who cause him lots of grief. It would drive you crazy after a while. Much more fun to set up a bar for half the money, that looks ten times better with less hassle. Something like this can be achieved on Soi reggae.

Either way, its not easy and the chances are at some point, you will fall out with your partner. But if you get a few basic points right such as music policy (no crap techno – decent stuff like Chili Peppers, U2, Arctic Monkeys etc), throw in a good pool table, make the place look like a pub as apposed to a crap girly bar and make an effort with the locals, you have a far greater chance.

After a year or two, there is a very good chance you will be bored of it all, and you wont have made very much money. However, you would have had a great time running a bar in the tropics, probably earned enough money to get by and you can always sell it when you have had enough.

The reason many fail at this business owes to any business failure in any country…. They didn’t have a clue, and didn’t get it right. Nothing to do with the island or market forces most of the time. Just bad business practice.

My take is, if you are switched on enough and get it right, you will do ok. You wont make lots of money, but will earn enough to tick over. The chances of failure are slim, if you get it tight.

Beachewale makes some fantastic points. I dont agree with all of them, but by and large a good post.

Either way, good luck mate..... and please try to take advice from people who have actualy lived on Samui and own bars. The best way to achieve that, as i said, is to live on Samui for a while and get to know these people.

[StickKettleOn]

Pompeynick, on 2007-02-25 15:04:25, said:

hi ya....
I am a bar owner on samui and cannot believe some of the comments and advice being offered to you!

please feel free to PM me and I will be honest in reply to any of your questions.

please remember that some people who use this forum have had bad experiences on samui or in Thailand in general , and others are still enjoying the lifestyle that living here allows.
It's not for everyone , but some of us enjoy being here and do make a living by working here.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

Pompey Nick would be a great bloke to talk to CCC. He has ran a very sucsesful bar on Samui for a few years now. Next time you are there, go and have a beer with the fella. Dont blame him for being a Pompey fan.... he is actualy quite a clued up bloke.

[Pompeynick]

Pompey Nick would be a great bloke to talk to CCC. He has ran a very sucsesful bar on Samui for a few years now. Next time you are there, go and have a beer with the fella. Dont blame him for being a Pompey fan.... he is actualy quite a clued up bloke.
[/quote]


cheers stick!

pop in and have a beer...

[RAZZELL]

SKO, Top post!!! It should be pinned in the business section If you actually look at the bars in Soi Green Mango...How many people are actually buying drinks?...The Bar next to the Swedish one is very busy, and playing good music...But are people spending?

Talk to Pompey Nick, who I met once about 3 years ago when he had his "shack" down at Soi Reggae
... rather than his new place... He, by his own admission didn't have a "pot" when he first came to Samui, but he has now set-up a good business through working-hard and doing something different...eg a non-girly bar in a street of girly-bars.

My BEST advice would be...come to Thailand for 6 months...try to learn a bit of the language...and look and learn

Keep your powder dry

What do you really want to do? Sunbathe on the beach? Shag birds? Do nothing? Well, if you want this, folllow SKO's advice...If you want to make a succesful business ...think long and hard...Good luck and keep us informed.

All the best.


RAZZ

[yabs]

well if you don't or can't see that my suggestion about living of rent is a good one then so be it
but the only succesful people living in asia, ie ones that don't end up going back home after a few years with a broken wallet, heart and future all have some income coming in from home, be it from property or other investments
Thats my early retirement plan. But perhaps its me being a fool and should take my hundreds of thousands of pounds
out of the uk and invest it in a bar in Samui.
How could have I been so foolish to invest in a solid investment like property in the uk
when the gold studded streets of soi mango beckon. Silly me

[sbk]

I am not going to start deleting posts in yet another thread. Clear?

Winding people up and responding with abuse will result in suspensions all around.

[StickKettleOn]

Ok, Yabs.... fair point. Bricks and morter is and always has been one of the better investments. With that in mind, your suggestion was sound.

I dont own propoerty in the UK - regretably. I wish I did. I agree - I would rather live off the income from real estate than run a bar.

That said, this thread is about the pro's and con's of running a bar and not various income schemes to enable one to live in LOS.

Was simply poking a bit of fun, thats all.

[yabs]

My point is that if Op is going to throw his life away in the uk for a new one in "paradise" he needs
to think very very carefully about it especailly with the bar option.
owning a bar is risky business anywhere let alone thailand but if all else failed at least rent from the uk
could help those dry months. putting all your investment and future income in a bar in thailand
is no better than gambling it all at a casino in my opinion.
And if it all goes wrong and he has to move back to the uk then the gap on the cv can be hard toi explain.
it would be even harder to go back with no property to live in.
the Uk sucks but if you do HAVE to go back at some point its nice not to burn all bridges
sure some people do well and good luck to them but most don't and if itsd a girly bar the you will defo have to pay off the police.
I'm going what some would call sensible others maybe boring route
i work offshore and get 5 weeks off every 5 weeks so can live where i want for those 5 weeks.
I also have two properties back in the uk which i rent out
hopefully in the next few years I can rent them out with no mortgage and live of the rent
There are other ways other than gambling everything on a bar to live in LOS
and going on holiday there and living and doing business there are two different things.

[RAZZELL]

yabs, on 2007-02-25 20:47:30, said:

My point is that if Op is going to throw his life away in the uk for a new one in "paradise" he needs
to think very very carefully about it especailly with the bar option.
owning a bar is risky business anywhere let alone thailand but if all else failed at least rent from the uk
could help those dry months. putting all your investment and future income in a bar in thailand
is no better than gambling it all at a casino in my opinion.
And if it all goes wrong and he has to move back to the uk then the gap on the cv can be hard toi explain.
it would be even harder to go back with no property to live in.
the Uk sucks but if you do HAVE to go back at some point its nice not to burn all bridges
sure some people do well and good luck to them but most don't and if itsd a girly bar the you will defo have to pay off the police.
I'm going what some would call sensible others maybe boring route
i work offshore and get 5 weeks off every 5 weeks so can live where i want for those 5 weeks.
I also have two properties back in the uk which i rent out
hopefully in the next few years I can rent them out with no mortgage and live of the rent
There are other ways other than gambling everything on a bar to live in LOS
and going on holiday there and living and doing business there are two different things.

You've made your point But life isn't always about being sensible is it?

What about the OP tries this? He get's his £40k, puts £15-20k down on a flat/house, rents it, then tries the bar idea with what's left? That way, he has an escape back home...

The "gap in the CV" is easy to fill..."I started a small business (bar) in Thailand and gained transferable business skills which would greatly benefit any future employer etc etc etc"

Problem solved, he has a go at a "new life" in Thailand and has a property in the UK, (which is hopefully going up in price).


RAZZ

Edited by RAZZELL, 2007-02-25 21:18:06.

[yabs]

good advice
life isn't about being sensible
but itsa not about just being plain stupid either
burning all bridges in the uk for a life under the palm trees
with all the eggs in a bar is plain stupid in my opinion

[StickKettleOn]

Honestly, genuinley and truly..... The police angle is false. I would not blame anyone for suggesting this, as you often hear people talk about mafia/police corruption and bars and the rumour begins. But honestly, it just is not true of Samui. Other areas of Thailand, maybe. But not Ferang bars on Samui.

You may be thinking of Go Go bars on Samui. I do not know this as 100% fact, but I believe that the few Go Go bars involve certain 'powers that be' - in terms of recieving a cut for turning a blind eye to a business that is technicaly illegal. That said, there are no heavy dudes knocking on the doors of these places making threats... it is what it is; a simple 'cut', and only applies to the Go Go bars.

Bangkok could be described as different to Samui. Take the bars of Soi 4, Bangkok. The 'powers that be' recieve a back hander every month, usualy based on number of pool tables, or number of girls. If this back hander was not paid, no one is going to create a violent response by trashing the bar, or beating people up.... it would simply mean tht the bar would be visited daily and the slightest (and i mean slightest) illegality would be picked out. For example, whilst all the other bars often remain open way past legal closing time, you can be sure that the bar that does not 'cooporate' will be made to close not 1 minute past closing time.

And also to be fair - I agree about not putting every single penny into a bar in LOS. Leaving no financial sources to fall back on would be a massive gamble. However, we do not know that the OP has not already thought if this. He may not be throwing his life away for Samui.... he may have left a few quid stashed away in the Uk and brought enough with him to gamble on making a bar. I hope he has.

There are indeed other ways to earn a crust in LOS. If the OP has not already thought of this, he should. This is why it is a good idea to spend 6 months or so on the island before commiting. After that time, if he still feels it is a good idea then best of luck to him. Running a bar on Samui is not as rosey as many may think, but it is good fun and another experience. Again, good luck to him if he goes ahead with it.

[southwest19]

Pompeynick, on 2007-02-25 15:04:25, said:

hi ya....
I am a bar owner on samui and cannot believe some of the comments and advice being offered to you!

please feel free to PM me and I will be honest in reply to any of your questions.

please remember that some people who use this forum have had bad experiences on samui or in Thailand in general , and others are still enjoying the lifestyle that living here allows.
It's not for everyone , but some of us enjoy being here and do make a living by working here.

Good luck with whatever you choose to do.

I have posted some negative comments on this thread basically all i am trying to say is before you jump in do your research.

You cannot go far wrong by speaking to Pompey Nick who does run a successful bar on Samui sorry Nick for being a little one dimensional with my previous posts!

[yabs]

again maybe i'm too sensible
but the only thing i would even consider doing in thailand is too work for an international company.
either that or a bit of english teaching to top up rental income.
You may be right about samui but i know for a fact that in Phuket all girlie bars not just goo go bars but the beer bars as well have to pay a bribe to police as prostitution is actually illegal in LOS believe it or not. I also know that in Phuket
there are some very very unsavoury falangs themselves who own the bars. Criminals and gangsters
do own bars and will think nothing of having another bar owner done over if they end up being too succesful.
bars and nightlife industry is a murky world anywhere let alone in LOS.
Again i would only do it if you had an original idea to get a niche.
Ok i admit most of my experience is with phuket but i'm sure the situation can not be too much different on samui.
I've certainly heard from a lot of people that Samui does have a lot of Thai mafia

[StickKettleOn]

I guess its just a personal thing. Some people would hate it, others love it.

There is a lot of mafia on Samui - but they honestly have bugger all to do with your everyday ferang bar. With the exeption of one or two people, by and large the Samui mafia are pretty ok people. I know one of them personaly (many or most ferang that live on Samui probably knows at least one of these guys) and he is a nice, respectfull guy. Very aproachable and good to natter with.

I hate to use the term 'mafia'. I like to think of them more as powerfull business people that you dont mess with. Others may say different, but my experience with these guys is that they have virtualy nothing to do with Ferang and they strike me as decent people. JMHO.

[SamuiJens]

Corruption IS alive and doing well in at least 3 bars I know of, personally.

[OlRedEyes]

To the OP:

I cannot pray for you coz I like don't believe in a god, but I'll ask every Christian - of every stripe - and every Muslim, Hindu etc. I know to pray for you. My wife will go make merit for you at the temple, if she can find it.

[sbk]

Wouldn't you say that these same conditions exist everywhere in Thailand where one would want to open a bar? Why single out Samui as a den of corruption?

My understanding, at least from those in the know here on Koh P, is if you are running a bar without girls you won't be hit up for the monthly payment. If you are running anything remotely dodgy, then expect to pay.

[SamuiJens]

sbk, on 2007-02-25 16:19:02, said:

Wouldn't you say that these same conditions exist everywhere in Thailand where one would want to open a bar? Why single out Samui as a den of corruption?

My understanding, at least from those in the know here on Koh P, is if you are running a bar without girls you won't be hit up for the monthly payment. If you are running anything remotely dodgy, then expect to pay.

No girls (prostitutes) working the bars I'm talking about, nor any dodgy things except live music in 2 of them. But agree, happens in other Thai tourist places, BUT, does that make it alright???

[RAZZELL]

yabs, on 2007-02-25 21:50:38, said:

You may be right about samui but i know for a fact that in Phuket all girlie bars not just goo go bars but the beer bars as well have to pay a bribe to police as prostitution is actually illegal in LOS believe it or not.

Every single bar in Phuket? What a load of bollocks


RAZZ