Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 Next » You cannot reply to this topic Go to first unread post 103 replies to this topic

[macb]

I am starting this Topic purle as a manual for dog training lessons and tips for you; If you could keep your questions revolving around the Topic and training. Any other qestions need to go in my other Topic where Bina and I try to help you with you geberal problems



1st lesson in obedience

'Walking to Heel

Assuming you have got the right check chain and lead and play article I prefer a rag for tug of war in your left pocket. (The reason I use the rag is it keeps the dog with you while training)

Your dog will always be on your left side with the lead in your right hand Why the right hand because your left hand is for praising your dog.

So you got the dog on the left side place him/her in the sit if you do not have this then as you say the command sit slide your hand down the dogs back to the rump at the same time raising the lead above the dogs head, so the lead encourages the head up and the hand encourages the rump to the sit, important praise.
Now Now the dog is in the sit.

When you move off you will use the command HEEL, lead with you left leg and a little pursuasion with the lead to keep the dog next to your left knee at the same time praising with your left, only walk in a straight line at the moment put stops in saying Sit then praise, dont bore the dog. Little and often. At the end of the excercise over exagerate getting the rag out your pocket and play tug of war. If your dog will not play tug of war try tit bits this is the Shutzan method of training, or a ball (A ball is okay if your dog comes back with it)


Well thats a start :


Next installment lefts and rights, if you not sure ask.

[Jet Gorgon]

Sorry, Macb, this just reminds me of the time I was trying to train my beach strays. Heel worked fine as long as a) they never smelled any food lying around, there were no new dogs to check out or c) they knew that I was carrying dinner in my hand.
But, this is a great start for all canine carers. Tutsi, where are you?

[macb]

Lets talk about turning left and right


Okay so we are setting off with our dog walking to heel, if he drifts away from your left leg just bring him back with a quick tug on the lead and release immediately followed by verbal praise (Soft voice) and praise with left hand.

Continue this action un til he is walking next to you with a slack lead, (the lead must be slack at all times unless you correct him)

Okay turning left and right:

Walking in a straight line at this stage create a curve when you turn left or right and gradually reduce the curve, the same when you do an about turn (imagine a hairpin slowly curve your about turn).


Remember each time you stop your dog is in the sit:


Now as you progress and put your stops in. with the flat of you left hand in front of your dogs nose say the Command STAY Keep hold of the lead slowly walk round the front or your dog all the way round till you are back at his left side then quietly praise him with your left hand then move off again.

Now only ever say a Command once, your dog needs to re-act to your command when you say it not three repeats later.

ALSO IF POSSSIBLE DO YOU OBEDIENCE AT THE SAME LOCATION EACH TIME THAT WAY HE WILL GET TO KNOW THIS AREA IS FOR LEARNING.

Take your time little and often you will soon see results if not sure about something ask me

Edited by macb, 2007-02-07 12:07:51.

[macb]

Jet Gorgon, on 2007-02-07 05:09:36, said:

Sorry, Macb, this just reminds me of the time I was trying to train my beach strays. Heel worked fine as long as a) they never smelled any food lying around, there were no new dogs to check out or c) they knew that I was carrying dinner in my hand.
But, this is a great start for all canine carers. Tutsi, where are you?

Quote

That sounds a bit like me JG smell food etc cant keep a staright line

[macb]

TRAINING THE DOWN

Now we have our dog walking to heel we can incorperate the down as part of his walking to heel routine:


It is easier initially to put your dog in the down from the sit posistion, so we are walking to heel we stop give the command SIT. Now from this position combine the Command DOWN as you take the lead to the ground underneath his head and with your left hand on his shoulders pushing him gently down once then when down dont forget the praise keep him there when you stand, now bring the lead up and command sit, then you can move on walking to heel.

In time you will have walking to heel, sit, and down.

DOWN is considered the safe position never recall him from the down, if you dog is down place him in the sit first then recall him.

You will find as you progress that you dog will sit on his own when you stop and will go down when you say.


The thing to rember is not try to do to much and bore the dog. always remeber praise and play at the end of a session


More soon

[solent01]

Keep it coming macb, some good advice there

[macb]

solent01, on 2007-03-06 01:09:04, said:

Keep it coming macb, some good advice there

Quote

THanks for your comments I will be adding more just been a bit busy with the New baby hang in there I mate.

In the meantime any training questions feel free to ask either here or in the Behaviour Topic.

[solent01]

Yes, not so much a question, but an observation regarding dominance. My boy is 6 months coming on 7, and I think he is going to be a handful, he is always trying to "mouth" me when we play, when we sit down in the evening I like to groom him (to keep the bonding going & to keep giving him the message that I'm Alpha) yet he always tries to turn the table and groom me. In the house (he lives indoors) I don't let him get his own way so to speak, he is not allowed upstairs, has to wait for either myself or my wife to walk through doorways then he can follow, he has many toys in the house but we keep them in his bed, we don't like them all over the living room, so we are always trying to show him he is part of the pack, but way down in the pecking order, just wondering what else we can do. Also when it comes to telling a dog off, what is the best way? I should have added above that I have tried the test where you put the dog on its back and gently hold him there with your hand on his belly, he lasts about 15 secs...... like I said very dominant and strong willed.

Edited by solent01, 2007-03-06 14:19:38.

[macb]

solent01, on 2007-03-06 14:18:24, said:

Yes, not so much a question, but an observation regarding dominance. My boy is 6 months coming on 7, and I think he is going to be a handful, he is always trying to "mouth" me when we play, when we sit down in the evening I like to groom him (to keep the bonding going & to keep giving him the message that I'm Alpha) yet he always tries to turn the table and groom me. In the house (he lives indoors) I don't let him get his own way so to speak, he is not allowed upstairs, has to wait for either myself or my wife to walk through doorways then he can follow, he has many toys in the house but we keep them in his bed, we don't like them all over the living room, so we are always trying to show him he is part of the pack, but way down in the pecking order, just wondering what else we can do. Also when it comes to telling a dog off, what is the best way? I should have added above that I have tried the test where you put the dog on its back and gently hold him there with your hand on his belly, he lasts about 15 secs...... like I said very dominant and strong willed.

Quote

Have you done any obedience with him ?

Obedience is the key to dogs understanding you are the Master (Forget the pack thing) Your human he is a dog and your best friend.

Answer this first then we go from there :

[macb]

TRAINING THE RECALL

Assuming that basic obedience is going well and you have your dog sitting on command !


As your walking with your dog to heel in time you will find that when you stop he will sit automatically, so with your dog in the sit holding an exrended training lead in your right hand with the palm of your left hand in front of his nose give thge Command
STAY now walk forward to the length of the training lead turn and face your dog wait a few seconds then give the Command at the same time bringing him into to you with the lead when he arrives lots of gentle praise, out with the play rag and big Fuss.

Keep doing this method till he pre-empts you tugging the lead and comes to you of his own accord include it as an excercise with what you have alreadsy achieved.

Always finish an excercise with your dog sitting on your left side in the sit.

[solent01]

Started training him properly two weeks ago, up until then he was far too excitable to take it seriously, so I let him get a little older before demanding too much from him. Right now he is walking to heel quite well with a choke chain (hate that word, do we still call it choker in the UK or a check chain?), and sits when told 7 out of ten times, the other 3 times I have to ease him to sit, I have started the down command, but not progressing much with that, I always have ease him down, I am also working on Stay, but again not doing too well, but Down & Stay I have only introduced over the last few days, I think within the next 3 or 4 days I should be seeing much better results? This is my first dog, I have always had dogs in my family as a child, so I'm not new to them, just I have never had to train one before, that was always my dads department.

I am aware though that even the most well trained young dog can revert to the wild, my dads last male GSD (he has had two bitches since then, and three or for males before that) turned from being obedient to a monster at the age of 1 and a half, he was well trained, and never showed any sign of being aggressive, then one day he flipped and went in on my dad (whilst they were playing tug), not just a quick snap, he repeatedly came in to attack, my dad had to hit him 4 or 5 times with a broom to stop him (the dog only stopped after my dad fearing serious injury struck the dog over the head, which broke the broom), my dad had to have medical attention. After this he spoke to the local constabulary whether they could work him and after a visit was told "no, too aggresive, try the forces", which he did and was also told no, unfortunately the dog had to be put to sleep.

(Please don’t read this and think my father is an animal abuser, he has kept animals all his life, this is the only time I have ever seen him raise a hand to any animal, but I do think he was justified in doing so).

[solent01]

Wanted to add this above but Edit is not working for some reason, anyhow

I refer to the term "Pack" because so many websites that I have looked at for information regarding training seem to teach with a philosophy of dogs in packs do this, that or the other...... so we should approach "whatever" like this......., guess you know what I'm talking about though right?

[elfe]

macb, i like your training style and also the approach that obedience is the key and that man is the master/friend of dog and not so much the alpha dog/pack approach. i got many dogs and i don't think they see me as leader of the pack rather than their master and they behave to so called alpha dogs differently than to me although very obedient. another example is that many of my dogs sleep with me in my bed (yes...) and they like to sleep in physical contact with me like kuddling close or putting their head on my leg etc, they rarely do that with each other and never with dogs in high ranks. just an observation... funny although that they almost only eat in my presence, when i go away they leave the food alone, also some of my dogs rarely play and are not very active when i'm not with them.
keep it coming - very interesting read, thanks.

[elfe]

solent01, on 2007-03-06 14:18:24, said:

Yes, not so much a question, but an observation regarding dominance. My boy is 6 months coming on 7, and I think he is going to be a handful, he is always trying to "mouth" me when we play, when we sit down in the evening I like to groom him (to keep the bonding going & to keep giving him the message that I'm Alpha) yet he always tries to turn the table and groom me. In the house (he lives indoors) I don't let him get his own way so to speak, he is not allowed upstairs, has to wait for either myself or my wife to walk through doorways then he can follow, he has many toys in the house but we keep them in his bed, we don't like them all over the living room, so we are always trying to show him he is part of the pack, but way down in the pecking order, just wondering what else we can do. Also when it comes to telling a dog off, what is the best way? I should have added above that I have tried the test where you put the dog on its back and gently hold him there with your hand on his belly, he lasts about 15 secs...... like I said very dominant and strong willed.

i've heard many times that bangkaeows are a rather strong-willed and stubborn breed, very self secure, one-man dogs and reluctant to strangers, though very intelligent of course. so you might have to do a little bit more work on his obedience than with 'easier' breeds like gsd, golden, dalmatians etc.

[macb]

Elfe Thanks for your commments;

Solent01

Okay straight away I will say you are being to soft with the dog (Check chain) not Choker.

1 Say your Command always only once re-enforce it with correction from the check chain a tiny bit of discomfort does not harm your dog followed by praise when excercise achieved.

2. It is hard to train handlers and there dogs on here, but never mind we will get you there.

3 Have you got Skype ?

4 Are you Domiciled in THailand.

Dont worry you not been training him long I will get you there.

Heres the philosophy. First dog you make the mistakes. 2nd Dog you get things right. 3rd Dog is spot on 100%.

[solent01]

1. I try to work with that principle in mind, but often find myself repeating commands, then kick myself

2. Hope so for his sake, I want to be able to take him places with us in confidence that I can control him, I don't want him to be left at home all day.

3. No but I can install it, no problem

4. Yes, we live in Chiang Mai province

To add, our training sessions today were terrible, well maybe I am exaggerating, but we didn't seem to move forward at all, this morning was ok, but this afternoon he just didn’t want to know, I started getting annoyed having to constantly check him with the lead so called it a day, we spent the next hour playing in the garden.

Edit to ask..........

Does anybody know of a school we can go to in or around Chiang Mai that speak English, after all, as macb has rightly pointed out, we both need to learn, and I feel this type of environment would be very beneficial.

Edited by solent01, 2007-03-07 19:41:44.

[bina]

Quote

I think within the next 3 or 4 days I should be seeing much better results?

dont have high expectations. always just expect the next level (today he heeled well, and sat well, thats if for the day. and dont fight with him to sit. u can stop short and pull back a bit and he will most probably sit back. use your brains not your strenghth. if he pulls on the heel to the left, make sudden right hand turns. if he crosses in front of you, turn left suddely and bump him with your knee. do figure eights. do tight circles, ig circles. stop and start. keep him guessing a bit and paying attention to what u want from him. but FIRST!! DOES HE KNOW TO SIT? HE WONT SIT AT A HEEL IF HE DOESNT KNOW A SIT. AND DONT START A DOWN AND STAY UNTIL HE KNOWS HIS DOWN. YOU HAVE TO BUILD BLOCKS OF TRAINING, U CANT POUR IT ALL ON HIM AT ONCE . (OOps. caps sorry). and he wont stay if he doesnt sit or down well.

also

setbacks occur in training always before u up a level; they happen with us when we learn a language. there is a period of time when we feel that we just arent learning anymore, then after a short break of time, boom!! suddenly it all snaps together.

if u feel frustrated with the session. STOP. do something else, play, work on something else, do something silly, reward with free bonus , shorten the sessions, dont make it boring. remember, kids hate some school things for the same reasons. boring boring boring. and dog attention spans are shorter than most of ours so keep it short, ALWAYS QUIT WHILE U ARE AHEAD.!!!! THE MINUTE U GET THE CORRECT RESPONSE, STOP. PRAISE. GO PLAY. GO EAT AN ICECREAM. FINISH IT FOR THE DAY. the same if u are frustrated. and dont ask too much all at once. one step at a time.

also, if u arent progressing, then go back a step to something u both do well, do it well once, and quit til the next day. it keeps confidence and encourages both of u, rather then ending up frustrated.

(ideas stolen from karen pryor but used by me with all animals from donkeys to goats.)

bina
edit: also, play with him a bit first before the training to get the wildness out of him; a free session. then relax a bit then train. then play, relax and finish. find out whats his weak point? doesnt like to be alone. use ignoring as a tool. likes to ignore u? keep him on leash with u wherever u go in the house and reward him often when he responds nicely like looking at u (ball, small piece of food whatever makes him tick). using a choker and pulling all the time?? then he wont respond. u have to really snap!! the chain and use it sparingly. dont pull all the time. horses tat get pulled on their mouths develop hard mouths and need strong bits. same with a dog. remember, u are bigger and smarter then him. dont be afraid to use small bits of food as prizes (NOT BRIBES). Dont know the breed but if they are like canaani, then they are very independant and u really have to figure out what makes him tick. macb's trick of rag tug of war for heeling might work there actually.

as for grooming u? he licks and cleans u ? or mouths u and treats u like a puppy or toy?

Edited by bina, 2007-03-08 00:33:17.

[solent01]

Thanks bina, you have raised some interesting points. (Coming from a Pilot training environment, I'm a professional pilot that has flown for many regional airlines in England, but got bored before I went international, so focused on training pilots, I totally understand people, and how to motivate to get the best results. However I have never come across a student that one day is totally enthused with what we are doing, yet the next day just won't listen to a word I am saying. Dogs are so different to people, well, at least mine seems to be, and my dad agrees that my dog seems to be a hard arse/head, being a Thai dog, I am starting to think he is typical Thai (not meaning to put Thai's down but I'm sure you understand what I mean), he seems so bloody hard headed at times, anyway), I will continue with the training as best I can, and of course when I have questions I will ask, thanks again.

Edit to answer :as for grooming u? he licks and cleans u ? or mouths u and treats u like a puppy or toy?

When I groom him he gets annoyed and mouths me then starts licking me (is that normal? some people say no, and I think the same) Some times when we play he tries to dominate me with the odd growl, so of course I turn it around and dominate him, is this also normal? I think no again, so going back to a question I asked, how do I stop this, how should I tell him off? What I do at the moment is in a hard voice say NO, then when he stops, I praise him, it just seems to be going on too long. Maybe I should have got a GSD.

Edited by solent01, 2007-03-08 02:40:20.

[bina]

Quote

When I groom him he gets annoyed and mouths me then starts licking me (is that normal? some people say no, and I think the same

very normal. i call it sublimated biting; that is, since we are their family they turn their initial reaction - a quick snap or bite as if a puppy or dog was bugging them,- to a lick since they know they cant or shouldnt bite us...BITE INHIBITION. its a good thing.

my boxers do this; my canaani yard dogs are very mouthy and have less 'polite' behavior and just hold on with the mouth, although they just hold and dont actually close their mouth. when he plays of course he growls. all puppies play growl. u dont have to 'dominate' him constantly. adult dogs punish puppis for inappropriate behavior but not always by domination.

if he growls when getting excited and starts mouthing u too much or raising his hackles as if he were serious and not play fighting, then stop the game immediately. get up, go to the bathroom, ignore. secondly, try to stop the play before he gets all wound up and looses control. my boxers play growl (well now just nala, the other is no longer alive) but it si very dfferent from their 'real' nasty growl which would only 'turns on' when they hear someone approachingthe house (they cant see out the door so they would hear footsteps coming up the stairs and growl until they knew who the person was).

try using more diversion techniques. for a hard headed dog,t hat works better then going head on head. as for domination techniques, i found the 'keeping the dog on leash with me at all times' method worked for my male problematic (lots of bad behavior issues i got him at year ad half old)boxer. he became a most polite gentleman .

remember, u must read your dog. u have to use his natural instincts and manipulate them to suit u. he isnt a person who deliberately stops listening to you. if he's not responding, see what u are doing and correct yourself. maybe all he hears is u barking at him. try pitching your voice differently for heeling etc (happy lilt to voice, less 'barky') . u are male and see things as a domincance issue when it may just be lack of communication issue. (watch his tail, ears, eyes is he watching u??? i dont know this breed at all- are they hunter types? very territorial? curious? do they want to please or do they prefer their own thing? ) once u (and i) know more about them as a breed and your dogs' individual personality it is easier. and what is normal?
gsd are dogs with a highlevel of wanting to please the handler. a canaani couldnt care less. but for tangible treats using a 'lottery' type method, they will do lots of stuff. boxers get bored quick. dobies are right on the ball and love to work.
so sit back and watch how your dog plays, how he eats, he responds to others and u will find clues as to what will work... same as people!!! is he motivated to play? does he ask u to play? offer toys? or does he self entertain? what grabs his attention? maybe u have to use more frequent and shorter sessions. what is his pressure threshhold when using a choke chain? i.e. how does he respond to physical pressure? does he move away? fight back? ignore?

i know this sounds crazy, but when u work with different animals u find that these questions really are good guides and help u work with different sorts. i'm sure this breed wasnt bred to work as a gsd or rottie etc were.

hope this helps some

bina

Edited by bina, 2007-03-08 16:14:17.

[solent01]

Thanks bina, no time right now to answer your questions, but today we just walked to heel and practiced sit, it went perfect, also had a scare/laugh when my next door neighbour let her 3 dogs out (1 Bangkaeow & two Spaniels), her Bangkaeow came tearing down the soi and started having a go at Chigo, and bit him on his side, by this time the 2 Spaniels had caught up and also started to snap at him (this is the first time he has ever seen this type of behaviour, and he looked lost bless him, I was also making my way towards them with my thick bamboo in hand) but quick as a flash he jumped up, ears down, tail planted between his legs, eyes flashing and teeth bared like some thing from the film "Alien", he first bit the Bangkaeow which gave out an almighty yelp and made off for home, then promptly bit the Spaniels as they made off after their big brother, after giving chase for about 25m Chigo stopped, shock his fur and trotted back to my side By now my wife had run out from the garden and was already talking and laughing with our neighbour, who apparently was apologising profusely, and said it was good that they just learnt a lesson, her dogs always attack our other neighbours dogs, but they just run home. I guess these 3 will think twice next time. When we went inside Chigo got 2 liver snacks instead of his usual 1.

Edited by solent01, 2007-03-09 21:06:09.

[Tony Clifton]

Thanks Macb for starting this thread. I was just thinking I should search Google for some dog training tips and stumbled upon this.

I've started with the SIT command for the first time tonight. ( my previous dog would sit simply by pointing my index finger at her) She's a bout 2 or 3 months old. She sort of figured out what we were trying to achieve but I did not push it too much and for no more than 20 minutes. Leash up, hand pushing the rump with some effort while saying "sit" only once, and she would sit and stay still. I've already got her used to walking on a leash for about a week now.

She's already very attached to us after only a week or so. Spends most of her time with us as I take her to the shop as well in the daytime. She bites a bit but I'm trying to work on that as well. Rawhides help a bit.

Let's see what happens tomorrow night.


Look how playful she was after the session.

Watch it here.

Edited by Tony Clifton, 2007-03-14 00:44:20.

[macb]

Watched you short vid:

He is still very young so you must be careful with what you do with him. dont do to much and put to much pressure on him, because this will effect his temprement, keep him happy as well.

Looks like he will turn into a good dog

[Tony Clifton]

HI Macb.

Yeah, we don't exactly know how old she is but I'd say 2 to three months old. I really like her character, I want to be sure she doesn't have any hard to get rid of soi dog behaviour and I think we got her just in time for that. I don't intend on turning her into some sort of a programmed machine/robot dog but really want to work on good behaviour and good obervation/response when I command her. As I mentioned before, my previous dog would sit simply by pointing my index finger once, if I waved it up and down a few times, she knew I wasn't happy with her and would look at me with sorry puppy eyes. .

I took a break from my evening walk and her training today. As you say, best not to push her (and me) too much. Looks like she's pretty smart though, in a week or so, she has gone from wetting the floor 5-6 times a day to being house broken as of today, fetches and brings back a ball or rawhide to my hand. I'll emphasize more play than training for some weeks, develop a better buddy relationship before more serious training.

[macb]

Mods I wonder if you would consider pinning this Topic:

As it is prevelant to the dog owners, and not everone uses the search feature or scrolls through all the Topics

Your decision of course

[Luckydog]

macb, on 2007-04-30 19:54:39, said:

Mods I wonder if you would consider pinning this Topic:

As it is prevelant to the dog owners, and not everone uses the search feature or scrolls through all the Topics

Your decision of course

YES Please Mods! Pin Boy!