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[Groongthep]

slackula, on 2008-04-05 07:40:14, said:

The country is bankrupt in a zillion different ways, in between being raped by Spanish and American colonisers.......

mainstream, on 2008-09-26 23:04:26, said:

about culture.... its not the Philippines fault to be under some crap spanish and american abusers why it lags behind Thailand...,

Would someone please give me some specifics on just exactly how the Americans raped and abused the culture of the Philippines. It's really pretty hard to put the Spanish and American colonizations of the Philippines in the same category. The Spanish were there for centuries while the American rule lasted for only 48 years from 1898 until 1946. There was even strong political opposition in the United States against colonizing any of the former Spanish possessions after the Spanish American War, but unfortunately those against it did not prevail as the jingoists controlled the yellow press of the early 1900s and desperately wanted to compete on the same world stage with Britain, France and Holland in Southeast Asia. Elections were scheduled to elect an independent Philippine government in 1938 but were canceled at the behest of the Filipino leaders in light of Japan's invasion of China and the feared threat to the islands from Japan. Thousands of American troops died first defending the Philippines from the Japanese invasion and then later from forcing the Japanese out. One year after the war ended (and after spending tens of millions of dollars on reconstruction) the US quickly granted the Philippines it's independence and the Filipinos elected their own government. American colonization of the Philippines also differed from European colonizations in that the US exploited very few natural resources from the Philippines, mostly due to the fact that there was very little in the way of resources available in the PI that weren't more easily obtained from Central America. In the 48 years in which it controlled the Philippines, the US actually spent more money on developing the country than it gained in exports to it or imports from it. The US military did have 3 bases in the Philippines after the second world war (Subic, Clark and Camp John Hay) but they were minuscule in comparison to the size of the rest of the country and couldn't have had much effect on the culture as a whole. The overwhelming majority of Filipinos never came close to a US base never mind having ever stepped foot in one. Today there are over 4 million Filipino Americans living in the US and probably less than 50 thousand non-Filipino Americans living in the Philippines. All said and done, it was indeed wrong for the US to have colonized the Philippines, but it's hard to argue that in the end the Filipinos didn't get the better end of the whole deal.

[filguy]

Isnt that ironic that my country Philippines is sending nurses,caregivers,entertainers,engineers,doctors,teachers to other countries despite the fact that its far worst from Thailand?

[Jingthing]

filguy, on 2008-10-24 13:30:58, said:

Isnt that ironic that my country Philippines is sending nurses,caregivers,entertainers,engineers,doctors,teachers to other countries despite the fact that its far worst from Thailand?

I don't know if ironic is the word I would use unless for example you already have enough doctors for all your poor and can pay them enough to keep it attractive enough to stay in their home country. And I think your country can't, I am sorry to say. I have yet to meet anyone who knows both countries who thinks that Thailand is in worse shape; however, with the endless political crisis in Thailand, this "contest" may change.

Edited by Jingthing, 2008-10-24 13:46:14.

[filguy]

Jingthing, on 2008-10-24 13:44:38, said:

filguy, on 2008-10-24 13:30:58, said:

Isnt that ironic that my country Philippines is sending nurses,caregivers,entertainers,engineers,doctors,teachers to other countries despite the fact that its far worst from Thailand?

I don't know if ironic is the word I would use unless for example you already have enough doctors for all your poor and can pay them enough to keep it attractive enough to stay in their home country. And I think your country can't, I am sorry to say. I have yet to meet anyone who knows both countries who thinks that Thailand is in worse shape; however, with the endless political crisis in Thailand, this "contest" may change.

Government and private sectors dont pay much salary as compared to other country (Thailand too). Its becoming worse in some business sectors that there are brain drain. We can't force them to stay there. Goverment is futile on this problem. Filipinos are world class workers and they can work anywhere, anytime.

In here with political crisis, its far better here because there is monarchy.

Edited by filguy, 2008-10-24 17:11:40.

[yabs]

filguy
its even more sad then that your country is still racist towards foreigners
You can come to my country and have all the rights that i have if not more
and you take our jobs but we cannot go to yours and ever enjoy the same rights as you
have a car crash and its my fault regardless, i pay i foreigner i have money
of course. I cannot own land and i get double charged
also don't think it would go down too well if I started taking jobs you can do
out of all countries the Phils should be different in this attitide as if it wasn't for us foreigners giving you jobs in our countries
the Phils would be even more of a basket case than it is
makes my blood boil

[luvthailand]

I agree with many of the comments on this thread and generally favor Thailand, after having spent some time in both places.

However, after reading through this thread, one thing I did not see mentioned is how dedicated Filipinas are to their (foreigner) men. I had never seen anything like this anywhere. The local men in the countryside seem to have a reputation for drinking and gambling. I could not believe how well attended the cock fights were.

Also, I found the people in the Philippines to be friendlier, a lot friendlier, than any other country I have traveled to on the planet.

There seems to be a greater expectation in the Phils for the foreigner to pick up the restaurant bill and, if married, to send money home to the extended family.

I really do not understand why the Phils are so much more expensive than Thailand, either, but they are.

Luvthailand

[Jingthing]

yabs, on 2008-10-25 01:11:47, said:

filguy
its even more sad then that your country is still racist towards foreigners
You can come to my country and have all the rights that i have if not more
and you take our jobs but we cannot go to yours and ever enjoy the same rights as you
have a car crash and its my fault regardless, i pay i foreigner i have money
of course. I cannot own land and i get double charged
also don't think it would go down too well if I started taking jobs you can do
out of all countries the Phils should be different in this attitide as if it wasn't for us foreigners giving you jobs in our countries
the Phils would be even more of a basket case than it is
makes my blood boil

I think the Filipino people in general are lovely people. Being from an impoverished country takes its toll, but you can't blame individuals for seeking opportunities abroad when they are available. In the US anyway, the vast majority of Filipinos are legal.

 d87cf9b0.jpg   4.22K   8 downloads

Edited by Jingthing, 2008-10-25 02:15:34.

[yabs]

you are missing the point jin
My point is they should sppreciate the foreigner more as if it wasn't for our countries providoing themn jobs they would have nothing
which is why it gets my goat that they won't grant us foreigners the same rights in their countries that they have in ours

[Jingthing]

yabs, on 2008-10-25 22:53:42, said:

you are missing the point jin
My point is they should sppreciate the foreigner more as if it wasn't for our countries providoing themn jobs they would have nothing
which is why it gets my goat that they won't grant us foreigners the same rights in their countries that they have in ours

That's not realistic. First world and second/third world countries are not the same.

[filguy]

Jingthing, on 2008-10-25 23:05:55, said:

yabs, on 2008-10-25 22:53:42, said:

you are missing the point jin
My point is they should sppreciate the foreigner more as if it wasn't for our countries providoing themn jobs they would have nothing
which is why it gets my goat that they won't grant us foreigners the same rights in their countries that they have in ours

That's not realistic. First world and second/third world countries are not the same.

I agree.

[John_Rambo]

opebo, on 2008-09-27 15:20:10, said:

Acquiesce, on 2007-02-07 03:47:56, said:

Sound like a bunch of sex tourists to me.

I'll certainly own to the title, and proudly.

You've really lost your way in life if you think that's something to be proud of.

[Ulysses G.]

What are you in South East Asia for? The culture?
Honesty is a lot more admirable than pretentiousness.

Edited by Ulysses G., 2008-10-29 19:12:42.

[John_Rambo]

There are a number of good reasons why i am in South East Asia, one of which is work related. If i was to choose a place to reside just for the women, Thailand and South East Asia would not be my preference. Not everyone has the motivations or actions of a sex tourist, but i realise it must be hard for someone who does to understand otherwise.

Even if someone is a sex tourist, do they really need to feel proud about exploiting impoverished women, and having to travel halfway around the world just so that they can pay money every time they get laid? That's more than a bit sad.

Edited by John_Rambo, 2008-10-29 21:55:48.

[benjamat]

Groongthep, on 2008-10-22 19:06:00, said:

slackula, on 2008-04-05 07:40:14, said:

The country is bankrupt in a zillion different ways, in between being raped by Spanish and American colonisers.......

mainstream, on 2008-09-26 23:04:26, said:

about culture.... its not the Philippines fault to be under some crap spanish and american abusers why it lags behind Thailand...,

Would someone please give me some specifics on just exactly how the Americans raped and abused the culture of the Philippines. It's really pretty hard to put the Spanish and American colonizations of the Philippines in the same category. The Spanish were there for centuries while the American rule lasted for only 48 years from 1898 until 1946. There was even strong political opposition in the United States against colonizing any of the former Spanish possessions after the Spanish American War, but unfortunately those against it did not prevail as the jingoists controlled the yellow press of the early 1900s and desperately wanted to compete on the same world stage with Britain, France and Holland in Southeast Asia. Elections were scheduled to elect an independent Philippine government in 1938 but were canceled at the behest of the Filipino leaders in light of Japan's invasion of China and the feared threat to the islands from Japan. Thousands of American troops died first defending the Philippines from the Japanese invasion and then later from forcing the Japanese out. One year after the war ended (and after spending tens of millions of dollars on reconstruction) the US quickly granted the Philippines it's independence and the Filipinos elected their own government. American colonization of the Philippines also differed from European colonizations in that the US exploited very few natural resources from the Philippines, mostly due to the fact that there was very little in the way of resources available in the PI that weren't more easily obtained from Central America. In the 48 years in which it controlled the Philippines, the US actually spent more money on developing the country than it gained in exports to it or imports from it. The US military did have 3 bases in the Philippines after the second world war (Subic, Clark and Camp John Hay) but they were minuscule in comparison to the size of the rest of the country and couldn't have had much effect on the culture as a whole. The overwhelming majority of Filipinos never came close to a US base never mind having ever stepped foot in one. Today there are over 4 million Filipino Americans living in the US and probably less than 50 thousand non-Filipino Americans living in the Philippines. All said and done, it was indeed wrong for the US to have colonized the Philippines, but it's hard to argue that in the end the Filipinos didn't get the better end of the whole deal.

Very good thoughtfull post.

Sadly I think the main point of US influence is missed. Virtually all developing countries see the USA as the land of milk and honey. This is brought about not by colonisation in terms of bodies but by the media and particularly the television and the plethora of American made programmes being shown all over the world. The majority of these programs depict the states as populated by people with very nice houses and expensive cars. People watch these shows assiduouisly and eventually are almost hypnotised into believing that this is what they should strive to achieve.

Its The Media!

Edited by benjamat, 2008-10-30 00:07:29.

[Edonista]

John_Rambo, on 2008-10-29 21:50:04, said:

Even if someone is a sex tourist, do they really need to feel proud about exploiting impoverished women, and having to travel halfway around the world just so that they can pay money every time they get laid? That's more than a bit sad.

I am proud to travel halfway around the world so I can pay much less each time I get laid

[Ulysses G.]

John_Rambo, on 2008-10-29 21:50:04, said:

Even if someone is a sex tourist, do they really need to feel proud about exploiting impoverished women, and having to travel halfway around the world just so that they can pay money every time they get laid? That's more than a bit sad.

If I remember correctly, rich guys back home were quite happy when they scored with women who had much less money than them and dinner and presents came up to lots more than short-time at Nana Plaza with much hotter women.
No one is starving in Thailand and the sex workers could all get different jobs if they wanted to.
Don't be such a prude. It is all how you look at it.

[LuckyFive8888]

compare the thai people and filipino people...
thai.........................................................filipino
cha yen yen.............................................do it later
smile even i don't understand.......................fcuk you! what are you looking at?
farang, wow atm machine...........................foreigners, rap|st!
beer........................................................more beer
thin.........................................................fat
laid back..................................................agressive
your the boss...........................................i'm the boss
save........................................................debts
soft.........................................................hard
security guard - stick..................................security guard - shot gun
less english speakers....................................most english speakers

compare the countries:
thailand.....................................................philippines
bangkok....................................................manila
phuket......................................................boracay
chiang mai.................................................baguio
chiang rai..................................................ifugao
andaman...................................................celebes
tasty food.................................................bland food
cheap beer................................................cheaper beer
corruption.................................................more corruption
clean.......................................................dirty
poverty....................................................more poverty
more prostitution........................................prostitution
no gambling...............................................gambling
safe.........................................................not so safe
literacy 92.6%...........................................literacy 92.6%

i conclude that thai people are my better choice. with the countries, they are more likely equal but i prefer the cleaner and safest one so thailand wins hands down at least for me.

just my 2 centavos and 2 satang...

[on-on]

ai kwaan, on 2008-10-22 11:41:18, said:

just keep off manila, and you'll be just fine

waters off cebu

capitancillo isle, cebu

peace

This is what I keep hearing. I have to spend 1/3rd of my time in Manila for work and I haven't had a chance to venture out yet. I've been studious about saying "Manila sucks, but I hear many other places are really nice." because I'm aware of just how much I couldn't possibly yet know about the place.

Still, it's not hard to see how visitng only Manila could seriously color the average traveler's impression of the place. Good lord what a boring s@#thole (and that doesn't even count the food, yech). The people in the office are really great - smart, linguistically a good match, nice, honest. The leftover plantation culture is sickening to deal with and watching the deference coded into the lower and middle classes and the disgusting way with which many of the wealthier people treat others is nauseating, but mostly I just feel bad for the average Pinoy (even if getting pelted to death with HELLO SIR and being handled and managed everywhere I go inside the bubble gets old as hel_l). I spent the first week or so just getting everybody at work to stop calling me sir and stop thanking me or asking me when they had to go use the crapper. We had a couple of people - and these are skilled, educated employees - who reported that they got in trouble at their last places of employment simply for looking the boss in the eye when he was in the office. It's not hard to empathize with the common people there once you start hearing about their situations.

One oddball thing that I do find bizarre and I just assume it comes from the incredible lack of equality and trust one assumes must be prevalent: the simple act of buying something from a store in Manila (7-11 and mom-and-pop places notwithstanding) has got to be one of the most convoluted, absurd, rube goldberg processes I've ever seen. Anytime 5 people have to interact with you and you have to sign three different forms and get something stamped twice just to buy a floor fan, well, that's just baa!

EDIT: Also, does anyone else get gawked at when they ride the LRT? I mean gawked at as if to say "Did you slip on a banana and accidentally end up on this thing?" I swear I've not yet seen another foreigner on the thing, but I'm sure other foreigners must use it.

Edited by on-on, 2008-10-30 15:18:07.

[johnnywalkerscotland]

very sweet and nice respectfull lot, but cant be trusted all are crooks and very tricky,

[samgrowth]

Bias. Very bias. Most people in this form love Thailand or have a Thai connection (wife, gf, Nana, Cowboy, etc).

If a similar discussion is to be held in say PhilippinesVisa.com, will the view be reversed?

[chickencurry]

I've never been to the Peens but they have a very good retirement visa. I think it lasts 10 years then, if you want, you can apply for Citizenship (dual nationality allowed) - rather more permanent than the one-year Thai retirement visa. I've chosen Thailand though.

But why does everyone assume on this thread that everyone's looking for girls? There are expat women living here you know

[chickencurry]

pumper, on 2007-02-23 00:23:30, said:

my current plan is retirement on phuket this year.

what about PI 'beach communities' .. like phuket. a part of phuket that appeals to me is the farang presence .. to be in se asia with the opportunity to on occasion associate with fellow westerners.

what about PI cities along the coast with a tourist / expat / retirement farang presence. ??

what about PI forums?

more english is a plus for me.
just yesterday I was viewing a map of asia, PI is slightly further north .. i do not do well in the tropical sun

I've seen San Antonio La Union recommended by two different people on two other forums as a retirement venue. Near the coast on the North-West side (sheltered from the typhoons) and apparently a small retired expat community (I think rather more Americans though). An hours drive away is Baguio, cooler and up near the mountains. It sounds lovely but one of the guys described it as not as "clean and sparkly" as Phuket, which probably reads Tatty I guess.

Pumper - we chose Phuket for retirement too.

Edited by chickencurry, 2009-03-12 11:30:00.

[thaibeachlovers]

Edonista, on 2008-10-30 04:11:48, said:

John_Rambo, on 2008-10-29 21:50:04, said:

Even if someone is a sex tourist, do they really need to feel proud about exploiting impoverished women, and having to travel halfway around the world just so that they can pay money every time they get laid? That's more than a bit sad.

I am proud to travel halfway around the world so I can pay much less each time I get laid

Well said. I could pay a Thai lady to get laid every day for the rest of my life, and it would still be cheaper than the amount I ended up losing to my western ( thankfully ex ) partner. Compared to the wimmin that I meet in the UK, Thai women are angels!

As for being exploited, that could only be written by someone who has little or no experience as to the realities of the WESTERN bar scene ( and not going to get deeper into it here due to rules ). However, I make no such claim as to the THAI scene.
I never yet met a bar girl that couldn't leave and go work in the rice fields or on a building site ( for 50 baht a day ), if she chose to do so.

[benallos]

I can;t compare Philippines and Thailand. Well people had some bad experiences in their visit to these places and I understand that. These two countries has many magnificent places and also there are worse places.

[toybits]

The Philippines has better beer (by San Miguel Beer - Cervesa Negra, Octoberfest, Superior). Excellent brew. My complements to the brewing master.