248 replies to this topic
Posted 2007-04-05 18:47:55
 dantilley, on 2007-04-05 18:23:28, said:
CobraSnakeNecktie, on 2007-04-05 18:13:58, said: Quote YT is now owned by google who succumbed to pressure from China, censoring some of their stuff when they saw their dollars threatened. The Thai market is not so big so perhaps they don't care. A case of freedom of expression being dependent on the degree of commerce involved.
What do you mean Google censors for China? Your just pulling a statement like that out of your a#$. Go to Google and do a query on Chinese occupation of Tibet, Taiwan, China Human rights, china animal cruelty, china currency manipulation, china human trafficking, china pollution, China communist corruption etc etc. You will spend months just trying to read it all. I have seen plenty of very negative YT videos about china also. Look at "China dog and cat killing fields" when you can get access to YT again.
Yahoo censored internally for China in exchange for access and they nearly opened hearings in Washington to investigate. Did huge damage to Yahoo's reputation.
China does 99% of their censoring from their gateways are very good at filtering what is allowed to come in thru its firewalls.
Google China is censored. Source
WTF. They are limiting data inside China. Of course they are a totalitarian govt that is rated next to last for press freedoms.
Anyone or company can set up a Google indexed database that is a limited subset of all data. Lets say I want to index just the things from my own website. Its a subset of data. China has chosen to allow Google to work inside its borders with a limited subset of data in the same way they would work for a company.
If China allowed uncensored searches of the global Google database they would see tons of china negative news.
They aren't censoring in favor of China in any other country. Correct me if you have any information.
So let's see there are 170 some countries and in 169 of the countries they are not censoring any china information and they have sold out??????????
Posted 2007-04-05 18:59:15
rtaxron, on 2007-04-05 06:22:44, said: What a lot of fuss about a website being barred, have you not got more interesting things in your life to look at?
Nope! 
Posted 2007-04-05 19:20:23
And after my point about about the big difference between not indexing and removing content..
When has youtube ever removed content based on mockery or simple defamation ?? Consider the hillary 1984 stuff recently posted on youtube that was mocking, that also had the possiility of effecting a campaign run, US elections, even when you think about it possible global future.. should (or was) that be pulled because it was mocking or defamation ??
Posted 2007-04-05 19:45:44
FWIW, "This video has been removed by the user." is the message I get when I try to play the offending video. Hopefully YouTube can now be unblocked?
Posted 2007-04-05 19:55:54
CobraSnakeNecktie, on 2007-04-05 18:47:55, said: dantilley, on 2007-04-05 18:23:28, said: CobraSnakeNecktie, on 2007-04-05 18:13:58, said: Quote YT is now owned by google who succumbed to pressure from China, censoring some of their stuff when they saw their dollars threatened. The Thai market is not so big so perhaps they don't care. A case of freedom of expression being dependent on the degree of commerce involved.
What do you mean Google censors for China? Your just pulling a statement like that out of your a#$. Go to Google and do a query on Chinese occupation of Tibet, Taiwan, China Human rights, china animal cruelty, china currency manipulation, china human trafficking, china pollution, China communist corruption etc etc. You will spend months just trying to read it all. I have seen plenty of very negative YT videos about china also. Look at "China dog and cat killing fields" when you can get access to YT again.
Yahoo censored internally for China in exchange for access and they nearly opened hearings in Washington to investigate. Did huge damage to Yahoo's reputation.
China does 99% of their censoring from their gateways are very good at filtering what is allowed to come in thru its firewalls.
Google China is censored. Source
WTF. They are limiting data inside China. Of course they are a totalitarian govt that is rated next to last for press freedoms.
Anyone or company can set up a Google indexed database that is a limited subset of all data. Lets say I want to index just the things from my own website. Its a subset of data. China has chosen to allow Google to work inside its borders with a limited subset of data in the same way they would work for a company.
If China allowed uncensored searches of the global Google database they would see tons of china negative news.
They aren't censoring in favor of China in any other country. Correct me if you have any information.
So let's see there are 170 some countries and in 169 of the countries they are not censoring any china information and they have sold out??????????
I would say they made a very poor moral decision as far as freedom goes.
Posted 2007-04-05 20:44:01
lomatopo, on 2007-04-05 19:45:44, said: FWIW, "This video has been removed by the user." is the message I get when I try to play the offending video. Hopefully YouTube can now be unblocked?
It may have been removed by the user or maybe not. It said the user had not logged in since march 25th after the video was pulled. So maybe the user didn't pull the video, someone else did.
Posted 2007-04-05 20:51:20
lingyai, on 2007-04-05 20:44:01, said: lomatopo, on 2007-04-05 19:45:44, said: FWIW, "This video has been removed by the user." is the message I get when I try to play the offending video. Hopefully YouTube can now be unblocked?
It may have been removed by the user or maybe not. It said the user had not logged in since march 25th after the video was pulled. So maybe the user didn't pull the video, someone else did.
Regardless, the video has been removed. It does show up in a search but when trying to play you see the message that "This video has been removed by the user". I'd submit that the user felt a lot of pressure, possibly from GoogleTube, to remove the offending video. In any event, since it has been removed we can hope that the responsible Thai officials will stand behind their pledge to un-block YouTube once the video has been removed.
Edited by lomatopo, 2007-04-05 20:52:34.
Posted 2007-04-05 22:49:44
BANGKOK POST
BREAKING NEWS
YouTube video, user disappear
(BangkokPost.com) - The offensive slideshow video of His Majesty the King that triggered the government ban on YouTube disappeared from the video-sharing website on Thursday afternoon, and the anonymous user who posted it was banned.
When trying to access the 440-second video on the King, a notice on YouTube said that, "This video has been removed by the user."
Meanwhile, the video site said of the user who uploaded the video under an alias of "paddidda": "This account is closed."
The video could still be found in some YouTube searches, but could not be played.
In less than five days, the video was played more than 66,000 times, almost all of them after the sensational publicity created by Information and Communication Technology Minister Sitthichai Pookaiyaudom and his order to ban YouTube inside Thailand.
It attracted at least 953 comments, almost all of them attacking the video, and most of them rude.
Presumably, full access to YouTube will be resumed, although most Thai users who wanted to see the video had seen it despite the occasionally effective "filtering" of the video site.
Posted 2007-04-05 22:54:25
Three cheers for Sitthichai Pookaiyaudom!
He should be some struggling actor's agent.
Edited by thefusilier, 2007-04-05 22:55:10.
Posted 2007-04-05 22:54:38
jetjock, on 2007-04-05 22:49:44, said: BANGKOK POST
BREAKING NEWS
YouTube video, user disappear
(BangkokPost.com) - The offensive slideshow video of His Majesty the King that triggered the government ban on YouTube disappeared from the video-sharing website on Thursday afternoon, and the anonymous user who posted it was banned.
When trying to access the 440-second video on the King, a notice on YouTube said that, "This video has been removed by the user."
...
Accurate as always I see.
Regards
maemanee
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3 posts
Posted 2007-04-06 00:32:22
Well now that the controversial clip has been removed I hope that people in Thailand can once again enjoy the remaining 99.9% of worthwhile entertainment Youtube has to offer.
Thai web boards the past few days has been exploding on this topic and not surprisingly those living outside of Thailand have been amazed at how a 44 sec. video clip has created so much stir in this little Southeast Asia country that lots of Americans can't even point to on the map. Well as a Thai, I must say that the clip was way beyond profanity. In additon to the lese majeste insults that has been in the spotlight, the Thai national anthem was also played in the background on top of the insulting images and the comments by other users was just unthinkable. Youtube's staff seriously need some cross-cultural sensitivity training, as their site is undeniably an international forum. Mocking an individual is one thing but to disrespect and insult another country's national anthem and symbol is another. While most Americans and Brits may find it all right to mock Bush or the Queen of England in the most ridiculous ways, if either country's national anthem was being played along with the images, I wonder how many Americans or Brits would still find it amusing.
I'm a major proponent of First Amendment rights but needless to say, libel and defamatory laws still exist in the US to curb those taking the First Amendment and freedom of speech to the extremes. However it is understandable that the concept of monarchy to many Americans is such a 'fairy tale' idea. While the United States was founded on the premise of founding fathers fighting for independence against abuse and exploitation by a tyrannic king over 200 years ago, for over 700 years, Thailand's history is deeply rooted in our kings being the 'father' of the nation and the perception of monarchy above all political and other social institutions.
A colleague of mine asked me about the Swiss man being sentenced to 10 years in prison on lese majeste charges after spraying graffiti on a public image of the Thai king. She didn't understand why the punishment was so severe and I found it difficult to explain a cultural mindset that goes back so many generations.. 
Posted 2007-04-06 01:16:00
Thank you for that excellent post and welcome to Thaivisa.
Posted 2007-04-06 01:26:45
LESE MAJESTE
YouTube ban to remain in effect for now
Blockage of popular video website won't end until still image is removed
The blockage imposed on the YouTube website in Thailand will continue until a particular still image from a contentious video clip regarded as lese-majeste is also removed from the website, Information and Communications Technology (ICT) Minister Sitthichai Pookaiyaudom said yesterday.
He said the earlier removal of the 44-second film clip containing the content from the US-based website was not enough. "We also want that picture removed before we unblock YouTube," he added.
The ministry earlier said it would impose the blockade indefinitely until other measures were adopted or YouTube decided to remove the lese-majeste video clip without conditions.
Next Monday, police and the ministry will work out issues to deal with such a case in the future.
Sitthichai said he was "dismayed" and complained bitterly when Google Inc, which owns YouTube, refused to remove the content, citing that it still kept material mocking US President George W Bush far more harshly than what was deemed inappropriate against His Majesty the King.
Sitthichai added that YouTube insisted it would still keep the clip. "YouTube said it thought there was not enough reason to remove the clip after viewing the video and making its judgement on the content," he added.
He described the posting as "unacceptable" to all Thais.
"Thailand is a small country and has no negotiating power to get the content removed from YouTube. What we can do now is block the YouTube service locally, until the clip is removed," he added.
During the ICT Ministry-ordered blockade, any Internet service provider in Thailand found to be hosting websites containing content that insults His Majesty or the Royal Family or still leaves access to YouTube open to local users will have its operating licences revoked immediately.
The clip was later removed, not long after the blockade of YouTube began in Thailand on Tuesday night.
A message on the YouTube page where the clip was used said the 44-second video clip in Flash format was removed by the user - self-described as a US-based, 30-year old with the user name "Paddidda".
After posting the clip not long after March 25, when he or she registered to use the service, the user never logged into the page until yesterday evening, when the clip was removed, said a note posted yesterday on the YouTube page in question.
Associated Press explained how the content in the video clip violated lese-majeste law. The number of visitors accessing the YouTube page reached 66,553, before the clip was pulled.
In an e-mail statement on Wednesday night, YouTube spokeswoman Julie Supan said the company was "disappointed" its site had been blocked.
- The Nation
====================================
you're right, maemanee, there's a great deal of educating that needs to be done.
Posted 2007-04-06 02:14:25
I think that once the still image is removed there will be futher unreasonable demands by Thai officials. First they'll demand an apology, then they'll want YouTube to serve up the poster of the video by name and demand prosecution, then even more demands. I think y'all can forget about YouTube for the foreseeable future.
Posted 2007-04-06 02:34:17
Be interesting to see how much this affects speeds with that much international bandwidth shut off.
Posted 2007-04-06 03:04:44
Hobox, on 2007-04-05 04:12:47, said: In the beginning of this day I searched on google for the user name of the culprit and got 3 hits. Did it now again, almost 20 hrs later and we are up to 90 hits!
In another 24 hrs I suspect I'll going to get 200-500 hits. 
I was almost right
From google: Results 1 - 10 of about 473 for PaXXXXXa
If it not were against the law I would like to put a bet on how many hits I'll get next week. 
Posted 2007-04-06 07:15:15
I've just made a check on YouTube and I think that I can see "the video" right now. It is 42 seconds long, and it was posted less than 24 hours ago by someone named "Thaifreespeech". Not very respectful for the king... Could it be that the same video was posted again by someone else? Perhaps someone who saw the original video could check...
Posted 2007-04-06 07:23:44
dolvetius, on 2007-04-06 07:15:15, said: I've just made a check on YouTube and I think that I can see "the video" right now. It is 42 seconds long, and it was posted less than 24 hours ago by someone named "Thaifreespeech". Not very respectful for the king... Could it be that the same video was posted again by someone else? Perhaps someone who saw the original video could check...
That is a different video, but equally offensive.
totster 
Posted 2007-04-06 07:59:07
a few more blatently trollish clips have popped up, in addition to the ones mentioned. 
youtube? --> trolltube?
freespeech?
Edited by Grover, 2007-04-06 08:11:32.
Posted 2007-04-06 07:59:59
^^^^^^^^
A clear example of why there needs to be a viable system in place to quickly resolve these offensive videos if YouTube ever hopes to be able to be received in Thailand... and vice versa, otherwise this moronic behavior of a select few will continue to disrupt.
Are videos pre-screened before they are accepted?
Edited by sriracha john, 2007-04-06 08:01:14.
Posted 2007-04-06 08:09:28
cdnvic, on 2007-04-06 02:34:17, said: Be interesting to see how much this affects speeds with that much international bandwidth shut off. I surely hope TOT isn't reading this, they would immediately add it to their repertoire of excuses. It wouldn't be the most ridiculous either from what's recently been reported in the press..
- Smoke in the north caused by Korean bulgogy (BKK Post)
- Bomb attacks in the south caused by free availability of 3 and 5 inch nails (The Nation)
- Slow internet caused by too many people watching YouTube videos...(coming soon!)
Back on topic, I think this has really turned into a case that YouTube has to deal with. There has got to be a whole list of content that is not allowed.
For example videos mocking the prophet Mohammad. YouTube most likely already has procedures in place to remove such a video immediately. So I think all they have to do is add "videos about the Thai Monarchy" to the list and be done with it.
Posted 2007-04-06 08:17:12
wintermute, on 2007-04-05 15:25:39, said: robert2, on 2007-04-05 15:12:43, said: Youtube refused to remove the clip? The general ban suddenly seems very justified to me.
Why should they remove it? Youtube is not owned by a thai company and it doesn't reside on Thai soil either. If Thais want to force their country's legislation on the U.S. that's another matter entirely and i'm sure the majority of the U.S. population would be _very_ opposed to that concept.
Iraq is not owned by the Americans, why should the Americans impose their 'democracy' on the Iraqis?
Posted 2007-04-06 08:20:17
YouTube incident becomes Internet crusade
A new video slideshow attacking His Majesty the King indicates that the dispute, fanned into worldwide front-page headlines by a Thai government ban on YouTube, may have only just begun. YouTube and Google wiped out the last remnants of the offensive video slideshow which was uploaded last Sunday to demean the monarch. The offensive slideshow video of His Majesty the King that triggered the government ban on YouTube disappeared from the video-sharing website on Thursday afternoon, and the anonymous user who posted it was banned. Some time early this morning Thailand time, the last remaining photo of the video in YouTube's search engine archive of the original video had disappeared from view. But within an hour of the disappearance of the first video and its uploader, a subscriber using the name "thaifreespeech" and claiming improbably to live in Iceland had placed an all new video on YouTube, containing even more offensive images of His Majesty the King than the original.
"Thaifreespeech" also added an attack on Thai lese majeste laws and asked rhetorically if "US people in the US (should) respect Thai traditions and rule of law". In an hour, the number of views of the video rocketed from 122 to 7,856 and going up. Comments in the same hour early this morning Thailand time rose from nine to 160. As before, most commenters attacked the video, often in rude terms. The new video, and the likelihood that many will follow, on YouTube and on dozens of other video services, raises the stakes hugely.
Continued here:
http://www.bangkokpo...s.php?id=117906
Posted 2007-04-06 08:37:22
Thread closed temporary, pending moderation issues.
Thanks for your understanding. 
/Admin
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