Posted 2010-01-21 23:42:03
 Richb2004v2, on 2009-01-11 16:07:06, said:
johnnymoretti, on 2008-11-19 03:28:43, said: Neeranam, on 2007-09-05 01:34:27, said: If you don't get a baby seat, make sure that if anyone holds the baby in the front seat, to do it strongly with two arms.
If carrying a baby on a motorcycle, put the baby between the front and back big passengers. The person behind holding.
Don't let the toddler sit on the front holding on to the handlebars until they are at least 2.
Never carry kids in the back of a pickup, it's very dangerous.
OMG!!! Unbelievable! Sorry, but I couldn't help but respond.
It is NEVER okay to carry any child on a motorbike. And letting any child hold the handlebars (assuming you let them on the motorbike in the first place) is unspeakable. Wait until their at least 2??? Oh...that must be the age at which they are qualified to steer.
And so we are to believe that carrying kids in the back of a truck is "very dangerous", but on a motorbike is okay.
Moms...do what's right. Never put them on a motorbike or in the back of a truck. Call a taxi and use a quality carseat. That is being the best mom you can be. After all, its about the safety of your children...and nothing else!
Sorry if I seemed condescending...but I assume most Westerners knew the difference. Many Thai's have simply not been properly educated on keeping their babies safe. Perhaps helping them understand the dangers might save a life.
I was going to make a similar reply, but assumed the post was either a wind up or from a Thai.
Come on guys! Can you really be this naive. Have you ever, just for a slight second, considered that perhaps they could not afford to call a taxi to go wherever they wanted? Or to buy a car seat that costs you almost as much as the car? What are you doing in these third world countries? Do you walk with blinkers on? Or do you just choose not to see the poverty around you? Catch a wake-up call! Do you really think that mothers would put their kids in harms way on purpose? Did you ever consider that this might be their only option?
Posted 2010-01-25 10:33:20
Hanlie, on 2010-01-22 00:42:03, said: Come on guys! Can you really be this naive. Have you ever, just for a slight second, considered that perhaps they could not afford to call a taxi to go wherever they wanted? Or to buy a car seat that costs you almost as much as the car? What are you doing in these third world countries? Do you walk with blinkers on? Or do you just choose not to see the poverty around you? Catch a wake-up call! Do you really think that mothers would put their kids in harms way on purpose? Did you ever consider that this might be their only option?
Sure there is villagers that don't have the financial means. But what about the hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions of families owning a car that simply take new borns out of hospital by placing them in the back seat of pick up truck or their sedan? And continue to do so for the years coming. How many child have lost their life or injured seriously just due to ignorance of their parents and/or lack of knowledge and common sense.
If you can afford to buy 500K car you certainly can afford to drop by in Tesco for 5K car seat. Same goes with bikes in cities, if you can afford to buy 30K bike you certainly can affod to take the 5 baht public bus to town where your kid is much safer than hanging in the handlebars.
Visit Bangkok or any other city in Thailand and you shall see...
Posted 2010-01-25 17:39:22
it is all about a question of priorities.
If you can afford a car, you can afford a car seat. Simple really. My kids are priceless, and if it means I sacrifice something else, then so be it.
signed - someone not on an expat salary.
Posted 2010-01-25 17:59:11
I couldn't agree more, car seats are essential. If you have a car there's no excuse for not having one.
Posted 2010-01-26 09:23:35
since when did a car seat cost the same as a car? I picked up a great new born car seat in Koh saui when my son was 3 months old & it cost 3k baht. Hardly in the same price realm of a 200k baht 2nd hand old pick up truck???
Posted 2010-06-13 20:28:28
My twins were born 6 days ago and were just transferred out of the NICU into the normal care nursery today. My son is likely to be coming home late next week or early the following week, and my daughter should follow about a week or two after. They were born 8 weeks premature so it all depends on how quickly they can learn to eat. Other than their sucking reflex being undeveloped and my daughter in particular being really small, they seem normal and healthy.
This raises the question of how I am going to get them home. I *REALLY* do not have 20k to spend on infant car seats. Please do not tell me I don't love my children because of this, or that my family should starve for 2 months in order to pay this. All the safety in the world does nothing if we are all dead from hunger. I get the feeling some posters on this board have no idea what it is like to truly struggle. That spending 7k per seat for 2 car seats at Central means nothing more than giving up an afternoon of caviar at the club. I love my children with all my heart, and that is why I am trying to find any solution other than doing without. But I need 2 seats in the maximum 1000 - 2000 baht range. I understand these may not be the highest German engineered quality, but for those of us who are struggling financially it is a matter of having something vs. nothing at all.
Does anyone know of a place that sells second hand infant car seats? Barring that, what inexpensive options are available in Thailand, and where do I find them?
Posted 2010-06-22 22:03:18
^ my only suggestion is to ask @ a few shops that sell infant/childrens clothes, not the large department stores. They might have one or two used ones. I saw one in Chiang Mai for 3000 baht second hand, it was for a toddler aged 6 months, but was sold next time we went back.
Its a shame that import tax is placed on items such as infant child seats
Posted 2010-06-23 17:41:24
I've seen some in Cash Converters in Pattaya, maybe try your local one.
#59
saraburioz
Posted 2010-07-01 12:12:00
Hanlie, on 2010-01-21 23:35:56, said:
Neeranam, on 2007-09-05 11:33:06, said: Daewoo, on 2007-09-05 10:49:31, said: Neeranam, on 2007-09-05 03:34:27, said: If you don't get a baby seat, make sure that if anyone holds the baby in the front seat, to do it strongly with two arms.
Neeranam, I know you are only trying to help, but it is never safe to carry a baby in any seat of any car.
In a 50km/h crash, a 10-pound infant slams forward with a force of 300 pounds. It is just as though the baby fell from a third-story window. An unrestrained child can be thrown against the inside of the vehicle, or out of the vehicle, with enough force to cause serious injury or death.
Holding a child on your lap may seem comforting, but it is not safe. At 50 km/h, a 125-pound adult smashes forward with a force of nearly two tons. A child on an adult's lap can be crushed between the adult and the dashboard. And research proves that seat-belted adults holding a dummy "baby" in mock test crashes cannot hold onto the dummy. This is true even when they know when the "crash" will occur. The "baby-in-arms" seating position is not safe. http://recall.djgusa...es/brochure.htm
No adult, no matter how strong, can hold onto a baby in a car crash. The sooner that ALL parents understand this, the sooner that good quality carriers will become available at reasonable prices, and the sooner more
babies will live into adulthood.
Cheers,
Daewoo
Daewo, thanks for pointing that out. I was pointing out the lesser of two evils.
All the comments so far I can safely assume was made my expats earning a big fat salary!
What is one to do that does not earn a fat expat salary! Have you seen the prices of these 'must have' car seats! It's like paying off a car! Some people just simply can not afford these car seats. They also love their children and want what is best and safest for them, but some just do not have the unlimited funds you guys have. Some people just have to settle for what they can actually afford, if they can afford it at all.
You expats that go to other countries and earn these huge salaries, have forgotten where you come from, and the reality of other peoples lives! Stop criticizing and condemning for a moment, and realize that not all people live on your level. And guess what, it's okey...
Well said. Although I have plenty money I don't go over the top regarding safety. I don't wrap my kids in cotton wool - it's good to give them some freedom. My mother recently commented on my teenage son on a motorbike with no helmet. I reminded her that all her kids used to rode around with no helmets on our land in oz.
Please leave that stupid western attitude at your own country. Much better to drive slow with no seat belt than to drive fast with one.
Thai people have faith that whatevr is meant tto happen does. Do you not have faith in god , Buddha etc?
Maybe that's why all those farang and all their safety gadgets are so fill of anxiety all the time .
Posted 2010-11-05 19:39:01
I bought a Cool Kids car seat from Central. Cost 5000 (or maybe 4500 after discounts) and it supports kids all the way from infant to 4 years old, it has several different adjustments and inserts that can be changed as the kid grows. I didn't want to buy a new seat each year.
However when bringing our son out of the hospital (with a doctor and nurse helping us to the door) the doc/nurse and wife were all protesting that it was "dangerous" to put him in the car seat and wife should hold him.
I stuck to my guns (as i'd done research online previously about the dangers of no car seat) and demanded he placed in the car...to their surprise he fit in there really snugly and looked very secure, and he didn't mind a bit.
And this was at a fairly upscale private Bangkok hospital, it seems that car seat education has not yet caught on in Thailand.
The price of some car seat is pretty crazy though. Initially we were looking at Paragon and there were car seats costing 50K!
Edited by dave111223, 2010-11-05 19:49:03.
ExpatDad
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Posted 2010-11-07 22:18:16
Anyone know of a good baby car seat that fits well into the Bangkok taxis (Toyota Altis/Vios)?
We do not have car. Do you think a car is needed in Bangkok for a couple with a new born?
We are doing fine without a car at the moment, pre-baby.
Posted 2011-02-26 15:48:59
I also want to know the same thing as ExpatDad - can you put baby seats in Bangkok taxis?
When I was in Australia in Jan I went to the Red Cross and they had ex-rental baby capsules for $82, that were still certified until Oct 2012, so there is one at my parents there now for when we visit.
They said you needed the car to have an anchor point behind the seat and that all cars in Aus have had them for 20 years.
I couldn't find the anchor point in my mums car I was driving there...
How do the baby capsules fit that you buy at Mothercare and Central? Seatbelts only or anchor points also?
Edited by redfish44, 2011-02-26 15:50:11.
Posted 2011-02-27 07:46:47
redfish44, on 2011-02-26 15:48:59, said:
I also want to know the same thing as ExpatDad - can you put baby seats in Bangkok taxis?
When I was in Australia in Jan I went to the Red Cross and they had ex-rental baby capsules for $82, that were still certified until Oct 2012, so there is one at my parents there now for when we visit.
They said you needed the car to have an anchor point behind the seat and that all cars in Aus have had them for 20 years.
I couldn't find the anchor point in my mums car I was driving there...
How do the baby capsules fit that you buy at Mothercare and Central? Seatbelts only or anchor points also?
I recently bought a baby chair from central. It had 4 different ways to secure it, unfortunately,my toyota fortuner did not support any of them except that standard seat belt system. There is nothing wrong with this as it works perfectly, but would seem the cars here are behind baby seat technology/ development.
Posted 2011-02-28 14:08:40
redfish44, on 2011-02-26 15:48:59, said: <br>I also want to know the same thing as ExpatDad - can you put baby seats in Bangkok taxis?<br><br>When I was in Australia in Jan I went to the Red Cross and they had ex-rental baby capsules for $82, that were still certified until Oct 2012, so there is one at my parents there now for when we visit.<br>They said you needed the car to have an anchor point behind the seat and that all cars in Aus have had them for 20 years.<br>I couldn't find the anchor point in my mums car I was driving there...<br><br>How do the baby capsules fit that you buy at Mothercare and Central? Seatbelts only or anchor points also?<br> Frankly, I would never EVER put an infant in the hands of a randomly selected Bangkok taxi driver. Period. In addition, I have yet to actually see a taxi with functional rear seat safety belts.
Rent a car if you need to go somewhere that requires a car, get in contact with a reputable limousine service company with cars that still has the rear seat belts, try everything - but I wouldn't gamble with the safety of my child.
Judging from a western perspective and using the standards and values someone from the western world can relate to; It is NOT easy to raise a baby in Bangkok without a car, I would find it almost impossible. Get a car, get a baby car seat. End of discussion.
Edited by Forethat, 2011-02-28 14:10:31.
Posted 2011-03-04 11:00:37
Since I am the one that drives the cars, and the one with the licenses, and am from the country and small town Aus, driving a car in Bangkok is out of the question, let alone just after giving birth.
There is no way in hell me driving a car in Bangkok for the the first time after giving birth is going to be safer than getting a local to drive.
There is also no way in hell I would ever figure out how to get from A to B in Bangkok before the kid has outgrown the safety seat.
Buying a car for a month and not being able to drive it in that time is unrealistic. We are going to have to get a driver we trust.
We have a brother of a mate that we use for taxi service often, and his cabs have always had seatbelts in the back, as do many we use.
This is why I ask about Bangkok taxis - we have the option here of using one with our own driver.
Not much point buying a car anywhere in Thailand if they don't have an anchor point though, as if have to use seatbelts to secure then it is going to provide the same effect.
When I went to the place that expained about the baby capsules and car seats, they said they only protect the infant if secured properly - using the anchor point, the seatbelt is an addition.
edited to add:
I meant to find out by my original post here which model of car in Thailand came with an anchor point in the back, if any, so that we could look at buying that car for use down here, where we live, not in the captial.
Edited by redfish44, 2011-03-04 11:03:38.
Posted 2011-03-05 06:16:53
I used a rear facing car seat with my son when he was a baby, it used the seat belts in the back seat as an anchor, the same method as used in the UK. I never had an issue getting around in BKK taxi's & felt my son & us were quite safe ( as you can be in any vehicle anywhere)
I wouldn't over think it. go for a secure, simple to use model that you can get in & out of the vehicle without needing a degree in physics.
Posted 2011-03-05 08:33:25
redfish44, on 2011-03-04 11:00:37, said:
Since I am the one that drives the cars, and the one with the licenses, and am from the country and small town Aus, driving a car in Bangkok is out of the question, let alone just after giving birth.
There is no way in hell me driving a car in Bangkok for the the first time after giving birth is going to be safer than getting a local to drive.
There is also no way in hell I would ever figure out how to get from A to B in Bangkok before the kid has outgrown the safety seat.
Buying a car for a month and not being able to drive it in that time is unrealistic. We are going to have to get a driver we trust.
We have a brother of a mate that we use for taxi service often, and his cabs have always had seatbelts in the back, as do many we use.
This is why I ask about Bangkok taxis - we have the option here of using one with our own driver.
Not much point buying a car anywhere in Thailand if they don't have an anchor point though, as if have to use seatbelts to secure then it is going to provide the same effect.
When I went to the place that expained about the baby capsules and car seats, they said they only protect the infant if secured properly - using the anchor point, the seatbelt is an addition.
edited to add:
I meant to find out by my original post here which model of car in Thailand came with an anchor point in the back, if any, so that we could look at buying that car for use down here, where we live, not in the captial.
As I pointed out in my post, the problem with not having a car is that selecting a Taxi in Bangkok at random is a problem since they don't have rear seat belt (or at least, I have NEVER seen a Taxi with rear seat belts).
Crossing the street with a baby is nightmare, you cant use footbridges if you're alone (I'm being realistic, a woman is unlikely to be able to carry the stroller with the baby up and down the stairs)
Walking down the street with an infant with a baby is like clearing an obstacle course at an army training ground.
Another important reason why I would refuse to raise a baby n BKK without a car is the level of air pollution, exposing an infant to Bangkok air is not recommended, especially not the first couple of months when the lungs are sensitive. There are several papers written on the risks involved (increased risk for allergies and asthma to mention a few).
I could probably go on writing a really long list with arguments against raising a baby in Bangkok, but in terms of restraining your baby in a car seat specifically made for this purpose it is always better to use a car seat than not - and keep in mind there are lots of baby car seat models specifically designed to be used WITHOUT anchor points (usually only certified to be used with baby's weighing less than 10-15kg). A big factor here is that even though you find a taxi, with anchor points AND rear seat belts, it is not easy to mount the seat - if you have a 2 min journey ahead of you it might be tempting to skip this step. Another big question: are you going to carry the baby car seat around if go shopping or go somewhere else? Our baby car seat weighs approximately 10kg with the base, and certainly cant be carried around.
None of my cars have an anchor point (one purchased in LOS, the other one is an import). I acquired anchor straps and the problem was solved - mind you this is not doable in less than 20 min if you flag down a taxi at random.
I get the impression you're only staying in Bangkok for a month? Your plan to use your own driver is excellent - rent a car and driver (or use your own as you mention) for the entire stay, mount the car seat using anchor straps and the problem is solved.
Edited by Forethat, 2011-03-05 08:34:09.
Posted 2011-03-12 19:51:42
Hi Boo and Forethat,
Thanks for the info.
Yes, we will only be in Bangkok for the end of pregnancy and a month or a bit more after the birth (the plan so far), and probably going to be homebodies a lot of the time (as we alreayd are).
Hopefully won't have to take taxis often, but would rather have a capsule than not, especially for when coming back home later, as is a few hours from the airport to our island.
We have a good driver in the south with a great car, and hopefully my mate's borther can be at our disposal in the city, otherwise we will find a new driver before the birth.
I hadn't even thought about a stroller or whatever yet... hooly dooly...
I actually have a degree in physics, and postgrad bits of paper in physics and spatial science, so if my brain works the car seat shouldn't be too much hassle.
When it comes to walking about I have the worlds most eager hubby who has been planning for years on wearing the baby proudly around in one of those strap on thingies every chance he gets.
He seems to know more about most babystuff than me as he is the last after a bunch of sisters all of which have bred well to make his one of the biggest families in the known world.
Good to have Thai visa members to help fill in the gaps, thanks : )
Posted 2011-03-20 15:57:33
Hi all,
I just wanted to add this for the sake of any aussies reading this and as confused as I was:
I shared a cab with a new mum and her baby in a fancy car seat I hadn't seen the likes of before, when I was in Bangkok a few days ago.
Now I undestand what is going on, and this topic makes a lot more sense.
Seems that Australia has different types of baby capsule/car seat things to Europe and UK, and the kind for sale in the stores here in Bangkok are of the UK/Europe type.
This UK style one I saw fit into the car using any over the shoulder seatbelt, there was no anchor point like in aus (in aus this is an atachment to a metal plate behind the seat that then has straps that are fixed to the capsule at the top, the seatbelt goes underneath also - so there are 2 sets of straps and takes a while to fit this base).
The one I saw on the UK model was also one stand-alone piece that is a lot lighter than the aussie ones (aussie ones have a base that is fitted in the car, and the capsule pops in and out).
This baby capsule the lovely mum had looked a lot easier to get in and out of cars, and was a hell of a lot lighter to carry than anything I have seen in aus.
The only thing I would really want to check would be the bits that the seatbelt looks through - as this would be the weak point, if it is robust - looks fine.
Am going to have another look around in Bangkok next time, as I hadn't understood this on my first look. Thanks all.
Posted 2011-03-20 17:26:02
That makes sense, we do have Isofix (the metal thing that is fixed to the car) in UK & a lot of newer car models are built with them as standard but the majority of people here use the standard rear facing car seat that harnesses with the seat belt. They are def lifter to carry too & you can find models that clip on to the buggy without having to remove the baby from the car seat when not in the car.
Posted 2011-03-21 19:56:22
redfish44, on 2011-03-20 15:57:33, said:
Hi all,
I just wanted to add this for the sake of any aussies reading this and as confused as I was:
I shared a cab with a new mum and her baby in a fancy car seat I hadn't seen the likes of before, when I was in Bangkok a few days ago.
Now I undestand what is going on, and this topic makes a lot more sense.
Seems that Australia has different types of baby capsule/car seat things to Europe and UK, and the kind for sale in the stores here in Bangkok are of the UK/Europe type.
This UK style one I saw fit into the car using any over the shoulder seatbelt, there was no anchor point like in aus (in aus this is an atachment to a metal plate behind the seat that then has straps that are fixed to the capsule at the top, the seatbelt goes underneath also - so there are 2 sets of straps and takes a while to fit this base).
The one I saw on the UK model was also one stand-alone piece that is a lot lighter than the aussie ones (aussie ones have a base that is fitted in the car, and the capsule pops in and out).
This baby capsule the lovely mum had looked a lot easier to get in and out of cars, and was a hell of a lot lighter to carry than anything I have seen in aus.
The only thing I would really want to check would be the bits that the seatbelt looks through - as this would be the weak point, if it is robust - looks fine.
Am going to have another look around in Bangkok next time, as I hadn't understood this on my first look. Thanks all.
Word of advice though, for some reason the seatbelts in the front seat are shorter than in the back seat on some cars in Thailand. The result is that the baby seat might not be mounted accordingly in the front seat depending on the brand and method a strapping. This was the case with one of our cars (Pajero Sport) and we had to replace the seatbelt to a slightly longer one.
Edited by Forethat, 2011-03-21 19:56:45.
Posted 2011-05-10 18:12:50
to those on smaller salaries this is not to make u feel bad, but may make some that paid 9k for a seat feel better.
i just shelled out just over 20k on a special japanese import car seat here. alibebe. very well made- super high safety rating.
im not bragging. i think it was one of those haywire purchases where i thought i was taking the safest route for my kid, and it doubles as a front facing, and back facing, that swivels to the side for easy loading and unloading. we can use it from newborn until the child is many years old. top of the line, yes.
did i need to spend that much? no. i think there are great ones for 15k, even 9 or 10 k.... i just didnt know that at the time. but i guess i'll never regret a measure of extra safety.
just do the best you can within your budget, and try not to compare to others higher or lower is the moral of the story here.
Posted 2011-06-03 17:21:44
I recently learned that ISOFIX anchors (or LATCH for us Americans) is now available in a handful of cars here, and is set to roll out in more and more in the years to follow. According to Britax Thailand, ISOFIX has been available in many of the European cars here for a few years now. But those types of cars are out of our price range and don't have service centers where I live, so it wasn't an option for us.
What is even better news is that many of the other car manufacturers are now also including ISOFIX in their current models. I have spoken with Toyota, and the 2011 Prius and Alphard include ISOFIX. Ford is planning to include ISOFIX in their 2012 Focus, set to release later this year.
Britax Thailand also informed me that the 2011 Nissan Teana, Suzuki Swift, and Ford Fiesta are also equipped with ISOFIX. However, when I spoke with Ford, they said it was just the 2012 Focus; and when I looked at the 2011 Fiesta, we could not find the ISOFIX anchors. So you'll have to check the actual vehicle to confirm, but this is great news.
In addition, I also wanted to add that you can purchase tether anchor kits, if you wish to tether your forward facing seat. This article outlines the different types of anchors available and how/where to install them correctly. We ordered the EZ-On Heavy Duty Anchor from Midwest Bus Parts, and installed them on our forward facing seats. For rear-facing seats that allow tethering, it is best to install them behind the passenger or driver's seat, as they can often be tether to the seat in front.
Another note, is that it is very important to use a locking clip like this on all car seat installations here, as nearly all cars have Emergency Locking Seatbelts (ELR), so they only lock in a crash, but they will not hold the seat tight for everyday use. The locking clips, which I have seen included with every seat I've seen for sale here, are essential to insure a proper installation. Some seats, include a "lockoff" which performs the same as a locking clip, but is incorporated into the seat itself.
For us, we have three children in car seats-- 5yo boy (weighs 19kg) is in a forward facing Graco Nautilus, 3.5yo girl (weighs 16kg) is in a forward facing Britax Marathon65 (she will be getting a Graco Nautilus like her brother when Grandma comes to visit this summer becuase her current seat is almost expired), and a 2.5yo girl (weights 12kg) in a rear-facing Graco ComfortSport. We drive a 2003 Toyota Sport Rider-- the two older kids are in the 3rd row (we installed two heavy duty tether anchors in the cargo area to get a better install), and the rear-facing 2.5yo is in the 2nd row (her seat does not allow rear-facing tethering). We are thinking about purchasing a new vehicle, which is why I looked into the availability of ISOFIX here, and was pleasantly surprised to see it is here, but not widely available just yet. For us, it will be worth it to wait a few years for the ISOFIX to become available in the APV/MPV type vehicles in our price range.
A few final thoughts-- if possible, it is best to have children rear-facing as long as possible (until they reach the weight limit on the seat for rear-facing); a good video with all of the current statistics and reasons why is here. And avoid purchasing a used car seat if at all possible-- there is no way to know for sure if it has been damaged at all; even if it was never in a crash, there could be hairline fractures in the frame which are impossible to see. Also, be sure to never use an expired seat. Most car seats expire after 6 years (some longer, so be sure to check the owner's manual); high back boosters and regular boosters expire after 8-10 years (again, check the manual. They expire because the material used for the straps/harness breaks down over time and the strap is not guaranteed to hold in a crash,as seen here. Also the frame of the seat (particularly if it is made of PVC) will also break down over time and, if expired, it can literally shatter in a crash with shards of broken plastic flying around the car. So buy new and replace when expired.
HTH.
Posted 2011-08-02 09:57:46
We got sick of the kids traveling with Taxis.
Most drivers were great but there was some that were plain Drunk and we wouldn't realize til we got in the car.
We've chosen to get our own vehicle and driver. We got a fortuner on a two year lease with a driver and they take care of everything including insuance, mechanic and they supplied a baby seat.
If you want there email or website just send me a private message.
Posted 2011-08-03 06:22:35
Any one know of the prices for the Britax seat......... the website 'shop' is showing 0 THB !
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