[astral]

Saturday 26th

Trashing of Orient Thai jets raises concern at U-Tapao


Intruders knew what to target on 747s

Boonsong Kositchotethana

The dogfight over Thailand's airline business has turned ugly with two Boeing 747s belonging to Orient Thai Airlines, the privately held Thai carrier that has spurred a fierce round of fare-cutting with its budget operation One-Two-Go, vandalised by intruders while parked at the Navy-run U-Tapao airport in Chon Buri.

The nature of the damage indicates that it was an act of sabotage by people knowledgeable about the aircraft, industry insiders said yesterday. They pointed out that the vandals had selectively disabled the most vital and expensive parts of the jumbo jets _ the equipment in the cockpit and the turbine engines.

Col Traisoon Niemtrabd, an U-Tapao police investigator, reinforced this theory, saying that the intruders did not intend to steal property but seemed to have wanted to inflict harm or perhaps embarrass the company or the Navy.

''At this point we do not rule out internal conflict among all the agencies concerned,'' he said.

The incident is a rare case, if not the first of its kind, to occur in the civil aviation business.

The intruders sneaked into the jetliners through the maintenance foxholes on the aircraft's fuselage, an entrance known only to aviation experts, to carry out the act last Sunday.

The damage was so extensive that the value of the airplanes has been reduced to scrap, although final damage figures are not yet available. The airline is now considering dismantling one of the two old 747-200 jetliners and selling its parts to overseas buyers.

Orient Thai Airlines expects to fetch $100,000 (4.1 million baht) from the sales of the parts, one-fifth of the money it previously expected to fetch from sales after completion of maintenance.

The other B747-200, which had been retired from service, will be given to a local institution for educational purposes.

''It looks like that the act was intended, probably by some rivals, to give the airline a lesson,'' an industry source said yesterday.

At first, executives of Orient Thai Airlines were reluctant to report the case to the U-Tapao police, but decided to do so as a matter of record.

The company did not want to make the issue public, as it was concerned about further reprisals.

Udom Tantiprasongchai, the owner and chief executive of the Orient Thai, is resigned to his ''misfortune'', according to a source close to him.

''Since his launch of One-Two-Go as the country's first budget carrier in December on domestic routes, the company has faced unfriendly reactions from competitors,'' an insider said.

One-Two-Go is competing with heavyweights such as Thai Airways International and low-cost operator Thai AirAsia, a joint venture between Shin Corp, the firm controlled by Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra's family, and AirAsia, the budget carrier of Malaysia.

Orient Thai Airlines has a fleet of eight B747 and two smaller 757 aircraft. The jumbo jets are primarily used for its scheduled and chartered services in the region. It operates scheduled services from Bangkok to Hong Kong and Seoul.


[COLOR=red]
The amazing thing is that all this happened on a military base.
It was not a five minute job, it must have taken hours and made a noise.

So much for military security!!

Think what terrorists could have done, while the military slept??[/COLOR=red]

[PvtDick]

Scary. Very scary.

[john b good]

I guess that it was better to be trashed on the ground rather than in the air.

Orient Thai buy/lease clapped out aircraft from other third world airlines.

The China Airlines 747 that flew to bits a couple of years ago was on it's last flight with China Airlines before being taken over by Orient.

Needless to say they never got to use it.

Perhaps there were more than me who don't have a high regard for Orient Thai.

[Thetyim]

"They pointed out that the vandals had selectively disabled the most vital and expensive parts of the jumbo jets _ the equipment in the cockpit and the turbine engines."

Whow, I would never have worked that out for myself.
I never knew the turbine engines were an important part of the plane,
obviously an expert job.

Well at least that rules out Taksin as the culprit because he didn't know they had engines.

[ovenman]

astral, on Sat 2004-06-26, 11:05:25, said:

The amazing thing is that all this happened on a military base.
It was not a five minute job, it must have taken hours and made a noise.

So much for military security!!

Think what terrorists could have done, while the military slept??

Assuming that nobody was asleep at the wheel, there is another conclusion that one could draw from this scenario...

[DaveYo]

Fellas, this report does indeed disturb me tremendously. They also told to the world how one sort of can accomplish this task. The entire fleets of 747 has been compromised severely.

Yes some of the secrets of this aircraft were indeed blown now thus exposing such to the terrorists and some wannabees.

The person who revealed such ought to be hung up in the sky.

The only people who knew of this were indeed 747 mechanics and the ones that knew the cockpit and turbine parts and equipment had to be mechanics.

I am a 747 & 777 mechanic and all of us are sworn to secrecy to the FAA and to the safety of the public.

Right now I pretty much know who had to have done this kind of job. The FAA should go after them pronto.

As to all out there, at the moment the security of this aircraft is indeed in great jeopardy not only at the airports around the world but also to all the public.

I fear the publics safety is at great risk.

Daveyo

[medicinebox]

Just a thought, but have they not done a search on Ebay for boeing 747 parts???

You never know.

[DaveYo]

Sorry to burst your bubble, but aircraft parts are indeed special made and have special metal and special requirements mandated by the FAA.

Nothing in E-Bay would be of any use my friend.

Daveyo

[brownsugar]

DaveYo, on Sun 2004-06-27, 02:38:59, said:

I am a 747 & 777 mechanic and all of us are sworn to secrecy to the FAA and to the safety of the public.

DaveYo

I'm just curious what so sensitive in the design of civilian aircraft that requires secrecy ? How is the secrecy protected in regions beyond FAA jurisdiction ? Does airbus also have the same provisions ? I've been an aviation enthusiast for a while but not heard of this.

cheers

[dr_Pat_Pong]

brownsugar, on Sun 2004-06-27, 03:15:41, said:

DaveYo, on Sun 2004-06-27, 02:38:59, said:

I am a 747 & 777 mechanic and all of us are sworn to secrecy to the FAA and to the safety of the public.

DaveYo

I'm just curious what so sensitive in the design of civilian aircraft that requires secrecy ? How is the secrecy protected in regions beyond FAA jurisdiction ? Does airbus also have the same provisions ? I've been an aviation enthusiast for a while but not heard of this.

cheers

Dave Yo has a bit of a habit of reading into circumstances all sorts of things unseen by other observers, and he has mastered the gift of never letting facts get in the way of a good story.

[DaveYo]

Not a habit my friend PP. Yes there are designs in the aircraft that is indeed very sensitive. Most in the public do not know a few things concerning the aircarfts internal parts and designs, except from the cabin area and seats of which they see and are involved. There are certain things in the flight attendants area inside the cabin area that is sensitive for security reasons. Even more so for the flight deck. Also the public for the most part 99.95% does not venture outside of the aircraft (except to be bussed from one area to another under escort for certain reasons such as construction of the airport terminals etc. ) to see the plane up close for inspection or what is behind the shroud that covers the engine. Also at same token the same general individual when they see this, they don't even know what they are looking at or what parts are inside. The same applies to the flight deck. It is beyond the scope to such individuals understanding.

However certain things has been revealed which now a hijacker or terrorists will go at lengths to dig up this information and perhaps use it to their advantage for perhaps some future incident. Think about it all of you. That is why I said the person who revealed such should be hung up in the sky.

FAA controls all regions of aircraft from any country due to agreements and treaties. For example say China has a defective mechanical maintenance program concerning their fleets or history that dictates incidents etc, the FAA can ban such aircraft from flying to other territories until the issues are resolved for the protection of the public. It is not to say that China cannot fly within their own country. I am talking of International routes outside of such particular country. Two different things here.

As to the design, yes, there are certain sections of the aircraft that is put there for security purposes of which the reasons for security I will not disclose.

As of the parts, yes there are parts on this aircraft that is very sensitive indeed, and damage to such can bring down that plane like a brick falling from the sky. I also will not disclose what parts is involved for security reasons.

Dr. PP, a good story yes, but when your safety is compromised severely and you have to sometimes fly this plane, I hope you arrive safely to your destination. This incident is not a story to be taken lightly, it is an incident of very dire consequences because your trust also gets compromised concerning that you are boarding a plane that is safe all around. Understand.

Now those who contradict me on this, feel welcome to take a snip at me cause it will do you no good. I don't care who you are, your a human being and all deserve to be safe and sound and not have to be in fear. My job pertains to your safety and to the safety of your families and friends alike. No more or less. Period.

Have a good day folks.

Daveyo

[Darknight]

seems to me you have been bitten by the American "there a terrorist around every corner" bug.

How many mechanics with the same knowledge as you are there in the world. 100.000 ? 2, 3 400.000 ??? doesn't seem to difficult to gain acces to your knowledge.

I can understand you can't get over the trauma of 9/11 in the US but it is about time you start working on it.

I would be more afraid of people with your train of thought. Luckely you're just a mechanic.

Please don't run for president...

[maerim]

Quote

I am a 747 & 777 mechanic and all of us are sworn to secrecy to the FAA and to the safety of the public.

So much for "sworn to secrecy" keep up the good work, I will rest a lot easier now I know you are on the case.

Also the airline I fly has no 747s on their fleet so they won't let you loose on their pride and joy.

Quote

also will not disclose what parts is involved for security reasons.

Could that be an engine?

Quote

aircraft parts are indeed special made and have special metal and special requirements mandated by the FAA.

I bet none of you knew that before did you?

Quote

Also the public for the most part 99.95% does not venture outside of the aircraft

This I think is a very good idea especially when flying at 30,000 feet and at 750 knm per hour, I don't care if they do get a bit claustrophobic going for a walk on the wing is not a good idea.

Are you real?

[PvtDick]

Darknight, on Sun 2004-06-27, 07:34:01, said:

Please don't run for president...

Unfortunately, he'd be more qualified than the moron we've currently got.

[DaveYo]

1. Thanks
2. Yes
3. We airboys knew
4. My goodness in the air? A feat to accomplish indeed. Refer better on the ground . Don't you think.
5. Yes I am real indeed. I pinched myself to be sure.
6. No way for President. That job is for suckers. Prefer the Rebel status quo per se.
7. 9-11 willies. Heck no. Me part of the scare crows - No. Me one of them - No. Did it affect me - No except trying to park the beasts around the airport that was full when they suspended the flying temporarily.
8. A terrorist at every corner. Don't think so. Believe the cars and motorbikes here are more dangerous. Just had my drivers outside mirror ripped off from some biker as I stood still at a goal light and a bus rip out my right front while parked at my parking spot. I do believe the real terror lies right at home. Planes are indeed much safer on second thought.

9. What is number 9?????? OOOOOOOOOOOOps forgot. Thanks for the vote. As of foreign policy to each their own. Besides I don't want to be the cleaner for the latters mess that was created. I leave that to the next sucker.

Have a good day

Daveyo

[maerim]

Quote

1. Thanks
2. Yes
3. We airboys knew
4. My goodness in the air? A feat to accomplish indeed. Refer better on the ground . Don't you think.
5. Yes I am real indeed. I pinched myself to be sure.
6. No way for President. That job is for suckers. Prefer the Rebel status quo per se.
7. 9-11 willies. Heck no. Me part of the scare crows - No. Me one of them - No. Did it affect me - No except trying to park the beasts around the airport that was full when they suspended the flying temporarily.
8. A terrorist at every corner. Don't think so. Believe the cars and motorbikes here are more dangerous. Just had my drivers outside mirror ripped off from some biker as I stood still at a goal light and a bus rip out my right front while parked at my parking spot. I do believe the real terror lies right at home. Planes are indeed much safer on second thought.

9. What is number 9?????? OOOOOOOOOOOOps forgot. Thanks for the vote. As of foreign policy to each their own. Besides I don't want to be the cleaner for the latters mess that was created. I leave that to the next sucker.

Have a good day

Daveyo

Thank you for that most informative post the world seems so much clearer now for that.
Keep up the good work.

Do not be put off by the fact nobody can make head nor tails of your posts but it is good practise for anyone who is into anagrams, just rearrange the letters and you just might ( no guarantees) make some sense of the gems you inflict on the general populace.

[plachon]

He's not letting on Maerim (cos he's sworn to secrecy), but our Dave also worked on the Shuttle. You remember the one - Need Another ........... It was at that point in his career he decided to take a break and run for Prez, but as he was sworn to secrecy, he got Kevin Kline to double for him.

[trawler]

Sorry had to reply to this one.........I have been in the aviation industry for 30 years and have never read such bu.......it.
The aircraft in question were old 747 's(25 yrs +) and there is nothing secret or sensitive in them,except where all the cockroaches hide.
You can find detailed diagrams of them all over the web and buy books on how they were built.
The engines are exactly the same,all the info needed is on the web.
They have been parked at U-Tapao for a significant period of time already.
So to summarise:no secrets on them,the only concern is the ability of the 'vandals' to access the aircraft on a secure airfield.
ciao

[Dutchy2]

trawler, on Mon 2004-06-28, 10:34:07, said:

So to summarise:no secrets on them,the only concern is the ability of the 'vandals' to access the aircraft on a secure airfield.
ciao

Agreed, this is a major issue. I remember the bomb attack at Don Muang that was supposedly aimed at our dear leader Thaksin. Airport security is still a joke in Thailand, anyone could drive a car loaded with explosives in the parking lot next to the Terminal 1 and 2, there are no checks at all or whatsoever. I have personally been able to check in for domestic flights five minutes prior to departure, regulations apparently not apply to all people in Thailand.

The new airport is supposedly a high tech organization, this however doesn't make me feel better at all. Thailand has been lucky till so far, terrorism has only been located only in the South. It's however likely that the Thai government would take it more seriously if it would happen right here in Bangkok. Why should we assume that this won't happen?

Dutchy

[maerim]

Quote

Sorry had to reply to this one.........I have been in the aviation industry for 30 years and have never read such bu.......it.

I am sorry, but according to our resident expert on anything and everything DaveYo.

I understand that you people who work in the aviation field are sworn to secrecy or do you get special dispensation to post on here with no problems?

[Serge]

Dave must be referring to the Bush's private Air Force One. Now, that particular 747 has hidden secrets!

[DaveYo]

Well you know they might be old, will need to see the serial numbers of such crafts in question. Also our member has forgotten that over the course of time the 747 aircraft was modified and changed.

Once modified and changed generally such is not revealed.

As of Air Force One, yes that is a 747, but the internal parts of such is totally different, and 5 times more secure than a commercial one. I have not been in such aircraft, and it probably would take me maybe 3 years of schooling and training just to know the ins and outs of such high security aircraft. For one the communications, the Defense Command, and many more just to start.

They have so much in that craft it will definitely make anyone get a free ticket to looney town.

Daveyo

[astral]

Darknight, on Sun 2004-06-27, 14:34:01, said:

seems to me you have been bitten by the American "there a terrorist around every corner" bug.

Not an unreasonable assumption,
given the troubles in the south of Thailand?

[ASIC]

Quote

Also our member has forgotten that over the course of time the 747 aircraft was modified and changed. Once modified and changed generally such is not revealed.

Yeah, the aircraft industry were never good at documenting anything.

Quote

As of Air Force One, yes that is a 747, but the internal parts of such is totally different, and 5 times more secure than a commercial one.

I love such genius. Where do you get the number '5' times from? Secure in what respect?

Quote

They have so much in that craft it will definitely make anyone get a free ticket to looney town.

seems like it, and you say you haven't even been Airforce One yet .....


Hey are you sure you are not that HenrikDK guy back on the forum using another nick?


ASIC

[DaveYo]

Who's he??????????

A. Too bad, yes we do document the repairs and maintenance records, mandatory by FAA

B. The number is just a guess, so you figure out what the difference is between the commercial one verses the Air Force One.

C. Yes far more secured than commercial. You can bet on that one.

D. Yes, I have never repaired Air Force One. They have their own qualified crew which happens to be the military personnel.

Thanks for your thoughts, no I happen to be JJ, or JH or just original as one can be.

Chow

Daveyo