An engine could fall off and as long as there was not an uncontrolable fire a B747 can fly on 3 engines. In some cases even two. I wouldn't try it for fun though.
A BA B747 flew through a volcanic cloud some years back and all FOUR engines stopped. Luckily they got them going again although on landing the edges of the aircraft looked like someone had had a go at them with sandpaper !
The Boeing B747 is one very tough aircraft !
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Orient Thai Aircraft Trashed
Started by astral, 2004-06-26 11:05
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61 replies to this topic
#52
Platinum Member Posted 2004-07-12 20:38:22 Hermano Lobo, on Mon 2004-07-12, 19:30:33, said: Generally only military aircraft would be covered by such secrecy and even some of their parts have been taken from the civil field because of cost. The fact that the B747-200 was damaged at a Military Airfield seems incredible? Who has to gain and who has to lose ? From being mostly monopolised the Thai Airline industry appears to now have opened its doors to deregulation. When I was involved with some of the Hadj contracts many years ago our Company Boeing 707's suffered from bad driving from airport support vehicles. This happened in Kano in Nigeria and I remember receiving a telex(no e-mails then) that one of our B707's had been damaged(on purpose) by a ground truck. "Please send speed tape and pop-rivets we are going to make a repair!" Nigeria has always been a bit 'crooked Third-World' and this is the first time I have heard of such a thing in a country like Thailand? How did the culprits get on to a secure area on a military airfield. = Inside collusion? To effect the damage described at least one of them must have spent time as an aircraft engineer. Surely it would not be too difficult to investigate the list of licences? Unless of course a Foreign National(s) was used which is likely. I think an odour comes from this incident that resembles the smell inside those old B707's after they had finished the Hadj contract(The cleaners at the UK airfield refused to clean them they were so bad as the pilgrims had no idea what a toilet was and anywhere would do seemed to be their motto!) Another Thai crime where the culprits are not found or get off ? You have made a good point Herman. But when you allow for the local factor anything can (and very often does) happen here. You aint seen nothin yet!! 
#53
Super Member Posted 2004-07-12 20:58:47 Quote At their October meeting in the clubhouse at Fairoaks Airport, Woking Branch members of the Aircrew Association were fascinated by Retired Captain Eric Moody of British Airways, speaking on his encounter with the plume of ash and smoke issuing from Mount Galanggung, an active volcano on Java, South of Jakarta. He was flying at 37,000 feet in a Boeing 747, and carrying 247 passengers from Kuala Lumpur to Perth, when he suddenly noticed puffs of "smoke" billowing out from the air conditioning vents at floor level, and a smell which he described as "acrid, or ionised electrical", such as one finds near sparks from electrical machinery. The Flight Deck windscreens became ablaze with the most intense display of "St. Elmo’s Fire" he had ever seen, and the engine intakes were glowing as if lit from within. The electrical discharges had a stroboscopic effect which gave the illusion that the fans were turning slowly backwards! At this point, the Flight Engineer announced "Engine failure Number 4", so the crew immediately carried out the fire drill. Whilst the Captain was still worrying about the smoke coming into the aircraft, which at that time he thought was the major hazard, the remaining three engines also failed - an unbelievable event which just doesn’t happen in modern aircraft! After trimming the autopilot to control the aircraft in a gentle gliding descent the crew had time to consider all possible system faults which might explain this extraordinary situation, but it was incomprehensible. Eric Moody was one of the few BA 747 captains who had completed a simulator exercise into actions after complete engine failure, but since reality and the simulated situation were very different, this experience further added to their diagnostic problems. Indeed, they had no idea what had caused the problem until some time after they landed, as the ash cloud was only reported some days afterwards. So their initial impression was that they must have done something wrong (like fuel management, for example.) All attempts to relight the engines failed, although the fuel had been igniting outside the engines, and treating those passengers with window seats a view of, what appeared to be, four engines on fire! At about this time, the cabin pressure reached 14,000 ft, the passenger oxygen masks were deployed, and Captain Moody was contemplating the need to turn away from the mountains and to face the horrendous prospect of having to ditch the fully loaded aircraft into the sea in the dark. His thoughts were interrupted by jubilation from the other two crew members, as No. 4 engine successfully restarted. By the time the other three engines started, an interminable 90 seconds later, they were down to 12.000 feet, where the safety height was 10,500 feet. Following a Mayday call, they were cleared to Jakarta airport, but their troubles were not over. The Instrument Landing System glidepath information was not available for the duty runway, and while the aircraft was on base leg for landing, the crew had great difficulty in picking out the runway lights. Eventually the runway was spotted to the right of the aircraft out of the co-pilot’s side window; but when they lined up with the runway, the lights disappeared again, and the crew realised that their front windscreen was almost opaque. The final descent to touchdown was made using the localiser to stay on the centreline, and by peering through the outer edge of the front window, which was still clear. The delay before the wheels touched down felt like minutes rather than seconds but, downstairs in the cabin, spontaneous cheers and clapping broke out from the passengers. This incident hapened in 1982 whilst flying over Java I knew a woman from New Zealand who was on the aircraft at the time. She made no mention of the queues for the toilets afterwards. #54
Senior Member Posted 2004-07-12 23:05:28
John B Good
O senor it is Hermano = Brother Lobo = Wolf I went for the wrong entrance to the Royal Thai Air Force Museum. The security seemed good enough ! Suspicious or what ! You would need knowledge to knobble a B747 properly ! #55
Senior Member Posted 2004-07-12 23:42:47
Well enjoy yourselves looking at the blueprints. You say you know all about it. Good for you. I am happy about that.
I liked reading all this coming from some people who never spent 1 hour of official training and of course most importantly self learners who know what they are doing or saying. You can guess who. This thread is closed for me. Chow chow 
#56
Super Member Posted 2004-07-13 08:04:55
DaveYo
I don't think they are called blueprints anymore but engineering drawings but your info on the security aspect of aircraft i.e. doors and engines has been gratefuly recieved, thanks. Oh and Dave just before you ride off into the sunset, any chance of a song? #57
Solid Gold Member Posted 2004-07-13 12:08:22
If I may be so bold...
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#58
Two years cancer free Posted 2004-07-15 10:57:58 ChiangmaiJim, on Mon 2004-07-12, 20:26:27, said: Another thought, although no aviation expert myself, I would presume that if a 747 was to loose one of it's engines (God forbid), then apart from the obvious fuel leaks etc. the aircraft would become unbalanced, and totally uncontrollable. Its great to be reassured by professionals, thanks. Those babies are more resilient than you think. #59
Super Member Posted 2004-07-15 12:23:15 Quote Back in the 60's a civilian jet, probably a 707 in those days did loose and engine over southern England and still made it in to land at London Heathrow I bet the bloke who's garden it landed in is still talking about it in the pub now. #60
Senior Member Posted 2004-07-16 16:14:53 astral, on Thu 2004-07-15, 03:57:58, said: Back in the 60's a civilian jet, probably a 707 in those days did loose and engine over southern England and still made it in to land at London Heathrow. Those babies are more resilient than you think. #61
Super Member Posted 2004-07-17 07:47:29 Quote I know it sounds odd but the engines are designed to come off under certain catastrophic circumstances. Do you mean shortly after DaveYo has been working on them? #62
Platinum Member Posted 2004-07-17 12:59:58 Hermano Lobo, on Mon 2004-07-12, 23:05:28, said: John B Good O senor it is Hermano = Brother Lobo = Wolf I went for the wrong entrance to the Royal Thai Air Force Museum. The security seemed good enough ! Suspicious or what ! You would need knowledge to knobble a B747 properly ! Have been known as the fox myself 
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