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[sonicdragon]

Perhaps the powers that be might consider pinning this thread to avoid repeated discussions.

The onshore/offshore dichotomy exists as a result of capital controls introduced by the BoT to reduce speculative inflows intending to profit from an appreciation in the baht. These controls put an effective 10% tax on large inward speculative remittances and introduced a ban on certain inter-bank transactions between onshore and offshore institutions. This leads to an artificially stronger baht in the offshore market. See post #119 here for further details on this:
http://www.thaivisa....h...2702&st=115

For people wanting to send money to Thailand by bank transfer (sometimes called a "wire transfer" or a "swift transfer" or a "telegraphic transfer"), in order to get the onshore rate, the money must be sent in foreign currency and converted "onshore". The best way to do that is to specify the "correspondent bank" details to the sending bank. The "correspondent bank" is an intermediary bank that sits between the sending bank and the receiving bank and the details comprise of 1. the bank name & address, 2. swift code and 3. the receiving bank's account number with the correspondent bank; and the details will be available from the receiving bank if you ask. If you don't specify the correspondent bank details, or if you are vague about whether you are sending baht or foreign currency, then the sending bank could easily convert it at the offshore rate (since they are located offshore from thailand) and send the baht to thailand. It is normal banking practice in the UK to do this.

Another way to get the onshore rate is obviously to bring physical cash into thailand and exchange it there.

Yet another way is to take advantage of certain banks that offer free overseas ATM transactions AND also give the onshore rate. Nationwide in the UK is currently one such bank that does so.

[samran]

thanks sonic.

Have pinned it....

[kolohe]

Good info.  Thank you.  Any chance we could create a list of the "correspondent" banks so people could easily get this info?  In particular I would like to find out what they are for Bangkok Bank and Siam Commercial Bank.

[pkrv]

Thanks sonicdragon - very well informed and as I have live access to this market I can see what you have said is true. I am cross referencing your comments/post on the Real Estate forum.

Sorry I re-posted to an old thread assuming the worst about my UK broker World First this turns out to be erroneous, but they cannot help me in this instance. I should have researched first.

Edited by pkrv, 2007-07-18 13:52:47.

[lotus eater]

kolohe, on 2007-07-18 06:21:07, said:

Good info.  Thank you.  Any chance we could create a list of the "correspondent" banks so people could easily get this info?  In particular I would like to find out what they are for Bangkok Bank and Siam Commercial Bank.

When I do SWIFT transfers from Nationwide to Siam Commercial Bank I simply instruct them to "remit in sterling not currency", and I give the SWIFT details of SCB. This has worked every time to get me the onshore rate. Never had to give correspondent bank details - nor do I know those.

[kolohe]

Thanks.  The transfer form I have to fill out has a 3rd section for financial institution information.  I've never used it and figured that this is what it was for.  However, now that I think about it, I think that I'm already getting the onshore rate.  I remember when I first went to the bank and asked them if I could send in THB they said "no".  I had to transfer my money in USD.  At the time I thought it was an inconvenience because I wanted a specific figure to arrive there and I didn't want to try to guess the right conversion rate to get that.  Now that I read this, it was for my benefit (for once).

K

[pkrv]

lotus eater, on 2007-07-18 08:25:21, said:

kolohe, on 2007-07-18 06:21:07, said:

Good info. Thank you. Any chance we could create a list of the "correspondent" banks so people could easily get this info? In particular I would like to find out what they are for Bangkok Bank and Siam Commercial Bank.

When I do SWIFT transfers from Nationwide to Siam Commercial Bank I simply instruct them to "remit in sterling not currency", and I give the SWIFT details of SCB. This has worked every time to get me the onshore rate. Never had to give correspondent bank details - nor do I know those.

You are absolutly correct this is what it comes down to. Whilst Nationwide no longer offer THB conversion they will act as a SWIFT agent you can transfer Sterling, (The card works fine BTW for THB and other currencies, I use it, great stuff).

For me personally I have a problem with this. Although I never traded in the FX market I was globally responsible for the introduction and on design teams of some of the products that conducted 50% of global trade (2.1bn per day), so I sort of know.

Part of my remit was 'market transparency'. (due to some banks activities). The BoT has introduced a 'market distortion' that can easily be deeply abused. I will be forced to trade 'blind' and will report back to this thread on what happened to me.

I am not happy with this outcome.

[orlandoiam]

Hi--- I'm in the process of returning to the U.S. after living here for about 4 years...so now I'm transfering my Thai Baht back to my American account.  I've already done one transaction, where I got a dollar for 33.5 baht.  But I'm trying to figure out if I can get a better rate. I've been reading your onshore, offshore posts...but I don't understand them.

(this is the first time i've ever taken note of fluctuations of the dollar/baht...as it's the first time it could ever noticeably effect me...)     

Is there a way to transfer Thai baht to America so I get a better rate?   I'm mildly confused--- Could someone explain this to me?

[lotus eater]

pkrv, on 2007-07-18 15:06:55, said:

...
Whilst Nationwide no longer offer THB conversion they will act as a SWIFT agent you can transfer Sterling, (The card works fine BTW for THB and other currencies, I use it, great stuff).
...

Do you know if there would be any difference in these two rates - onshore via the SWIFT transfer and the atm - and also the third option of changing actual currency in Thailand?

[pkrv]

lotus eater, on 2007-07-20 07:52:50, said:

pkrv, on 2007-07-18 15:06:55, said:

...
Whilst Nationwide no longer offer THB conversion they will act as a SWIFT agent you can transfer Sterling, (The card works fine BTW for THB and other currencies, I use it, great stuff).
...

Do you know if there would be any difference in these two rates - onshore via the SWIFT transfer and the atm - and also the third option of changing actual currency in Thailand?

You have asked quite a number of questions - I do not give advice, but I do share information - I personally use the Nationwide cash card and check the results every time, because I can. It's pretty bloody good! I have found nothing better. This is what this forum is about correct me if I am wrong.

I again will be honest I have a final payment to make at The Park Condominium, its about 10m THB. A 10% tax is not easy to digest, I have engaged but people are digesting if that makes sense. The answer is I do not yet know.

[cmsally]

Quote

Do you know if there would be any difference in these two rates - onshore via the SWIFT transfer and the atm - and also the third option of changing actual currency in Thailand?

The transfer rates I get correspond to those on the banks website - I use SCB.
I don't use Nationwide debit card often but seems to follow pretty closely too.
If anyone used it recently they can check the rates they are getting and compare here:
SCB foreign exchange rates

You should be getting lower than these rates in actual cash.

[lotus eater]

[quote name='pkrv' post='1429251' date='2007-07-20 15:33:09'][quote name='lotus eater' post='1429075' date='2007-07-20 07:52:50'][quote name='pkrv' post='1425089' date='2007-07-18 15:06:55']...
Whilst Nationwide no longer offer THB conversion they will act as a SWIFT agent you can transfer Sterling, (The card works fine BTW for THB and other currencies, I use it, great stuff).
...[/quote]


Do you know if there would be any difference in these two rates - onshore via the SWIFT transfer and the atm - and also the third option of changing actual currency in Thailand?
[/quote]


You have asked quite a number of questions - I do not give advice, but I do share information - I personally use the Nationwide cash card and check the results every time, because I can. It's pretty bloody good! I have found nothing better. This is what this forum is about correct me if I am wrong.

I again will be honest I have a final payment to make at The Park Condominium, its about 10m THB. A 10% tax is not easy to digest, I have engaged but people are digesting if that makes sense. The answer is I do not yet know.
[/quote]


I couldn't grasp the distinctions you are drawing, or the points you are making. But I'm sure you feel you answered the questions.
Yes I too found the nationwide atm rate to be nothing to complain about.
Your acquisition of the condo....umm I'm sure you're right.

[quote name='cmsally' post='1429733' date='2007-07-20 21:18:12'][quote]Do you know if there would be any difference in these two rates - onshore via the SWIFT transfer and the atm - and also the third option of changing actual currency in Thailand?[/quote]

The transfer rates I get correspond to those on the banks website - I use SCB.
I don't use Nationwide debit card often but seems to follow pretty closely too.
If anyone used it recently they can check the rates they are getting and compare here:
[url="http://www.scb.co.th/html/exchange/bk-pvsexchange.htm"]SCB foreign exchange rates[/url]

You should be getting lower than these rates in actual cash.
[/quote]

That SCB link is useful  - and duly bookmarked.  Presumably those rates are not necessarily for very large amounts.

So cash at kiosk rates are always worse.

Many thanks for the info.

[jaithai]

kolohe, on 2007-07-17 19:21:07, said:

Good info.  Thank you.  Any chance we could create a list of the "correspondent" banks so people could easily get this info?  In particular I would like to find out what they are for Bangkok Bank and Siam Commercial Bank.

Bangkok Bank
   correspondent bank: Bangkok Bank (New York Branch) aba = 026008691

Siam Commercial Bank
   correspondent bank: Bank of America aba = 026009593

[pkrv]

lotus eater - Sorry for the confusion. Essentially international trade in the FX Thai market has been broken. The reason I have confused you is probably because I too am confused as to what to do next. All open, transparent, and indeed standard international trade in the Thai Baht has utterly ceased (I did wonder why Nationwide pulled out of this market I now fundamentally understand why).

What has happened is that the internationally recognised mechanisms in place to pay for The Park have been broken or pay a 10% tax which on 10m will be guesses what, 1m THB. It would be cheaper to fly out (several times) open an account, transfer, get the correct forms and present them. (Condo purchase is in the very, very, very best Thailand has to offer, lifestyle choice)

The Nationwide cash card appears (though I have not personally checked this) to bypass all these issues. But that’s just a hand full of Thai Baht.

I am not a happy bunny and now that I am aware have flagged the issue, just not to this forum.

[lotus eater]

pkrv, on 2007-07-21 15:01:24, said:

What has happened is that the internationally recognised mechanisms in place to pay for The Park have been broken or pay a 10% tax which on 10m will be guesses what, 1m THB. It would be cheaper to fly out (several times) open an account, transfer, get the correct forms and present them. (Condo purchase is in the very, very, very best Thailand has to offer, lifestyle choice)

I am not a happy bunny and now that I am aware have flagged the issue, just not to this forum.

I hope the problem with your pricey purchase will be resolved to your satisfaction, so you can be back in good spirits.

[exexpat]

Today the offshore rate hit 29.575 per dollar, onshore is still 33.5  
Yuck, the spread is over 13% now. 

It seems that basically, Americans, Japanese, Taiwanese have been hit hard.  To a lesser extent Eurozone, Chinese, Malaysians and Singaporeans.

Aussies, Brits, and Canadians, Zealanders very little.

I wonder how everyone is managing?  I wonder how high the baht will go?  It doesn't seem to stop.  

[pkrv]

exexpat, on 2007-07-23 07:16:56, said:

Today the offshore rate hit 29.575 per dollar, onshore is still 33.5
Yuck, the spread is over 13% now.

It seems that basically, Americans, Japanese, Taiwanese have been hit hard. To a lesser extent Eurozone, Chinese, Malaysians and Singaporeans.

Aussies, Brits, and Canadians, Zealanders very little.

I wonder how everyone is managing? I wonder how high the baht will go? It doesn't seem to stop.

This will not stop. The FX market is probably one of the most adversarial on the face of the planet. Believe you me it takes a huge amount of effort to exercise control and restraint with the players.

IMO our best bet is to try to work out the live onshore rates offered by each Thai institution and openly post them in a single pinned thread, that we can all see. Then trade onshore.

This is a disaster for Thailand and will, if it continues, lead to deep levels of entrenched corruption within its society.

I do not have enough local knowledge to achieve the above 'open market display', but I will try other angles.

Edited by pkrv, 2007-07-23 14:31:35.

[Naam]

pkrv, on 2007-07-23 14:27:42, said:

onshore/offshore = This is a disaster for Thailand and will, if it continues, lead to deep levels of entrenched corruption within its society.

i am quite interested in that stuff you take. what is it and how do you ingest it? by smoking, snuffing or swallowing? and in case you inject...  intravenous or subcutaneous?

[lotus eater]

Dr. Naam, on 2007-07-23 16:33:02, said:

pkrv, on 2007-07-23 14:27:42, said:

onshore/offshore = This is a disaster for Thailand and will, if it continues, lead to deep levels of entrenched corruption within its society.

i am quite interested in that stuff you take. what is it and how do you ingest it? by smoking, snuffing or swallowing? and in case you inject...  intravenous or subcutaneous?

[Naam]

exexpat, on 2007-07-23 13:16:56, said:

I wonder how everyone is managing?

i seriously consider sending my Old Lady to Germany. friends have told me she can make 12 €URos an hour wiping floors. that's nearly double what we paid our cleaning lady years ago! let's say she works 10 hours a day and i let her keep 20 €URos she could send 600 €URos every week to me. that's of course based on 6 working days. and if i could convince her to work 7 days a week... and perhaps some overtime...  

[pkrv]

lotus eater, on 2007-07-23 10:44:02, said:

Dr. Naam, on 2007-07-23 16:33:02, said:

pkrv, on 2007-07-23 14:27:42, said:

onshore/offshore = This is a disaster for Thailand and will, if it continues, lead to deep levels of entrenched corruption within its society.

i am quite interested in that stuff you take. what is it and how do you ingest it? by smoking, snuffing or swallowing? and in case you inject... intravenous or subcutaneous?

I prefer direct exposure

[pkrv]

Another useful link Bangkok Bank rates stolen from another thread

http://www.bangkokba...tes/default.htm

[pkrv]

Discussion has now moved on to the skyscraper forum here:

http://www.skyscrape...45#post14455545

As those who have to pay soon come to grips.

[agt554]

Hi, sorry if this has already been answered somewhere, but does anyone know the considerations for purchasing a condo using an offshore company, rather than an individual?  I think I understand the dynamics of how to get the funds to Thailand, but is it difficult to do this? I live in BKK and have a non-resident Baht account at Bangkok Bank in my name, but no corporate account here.  The company is based in Singapore, and I have a USD account in Singapore. Would it be possible to make a TT from my corporate account to my personal THB account in BKK (and of course stipulate that the transfer is for a condo purchase), and then register the purchase using my company name? I just feel like this is going to be tricky, especially reading all the problems people have had with simple personal purchases.  Thanks a ton for any help or advice you all have!

[ChiangMaiThai]

Where is this going to stop? I see the offshore rate dropped to 28.99 today, while the onshore rate held at 33.72. How much further can this discrepancy increase? Might we see a 23 offshore rate and a 33 onshore rate?