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[donna]

there is no more to it, taxin. what you read is exactly what happened. i was praised by my bosses and told i was an asset to the company blah blah. then they decided that i was too expensive and told me that they would not require my services any longer. they then tried to get away with SAYING they would pay me 1 month as a good will gesture but have, in fact, not paid anything to me other than the salary owing to me up until the day i finished work.

i am waiting for the money owing to me.

quite simple really.

[quiksilva]

Go get em Donna, I agree with Bendix. The Thai courts are definitely on the side of the employee, regardless of whether you are a local or not. Stick to your guns!

[freespace]

geronimo, on 2007-07-08 03:12:43, said:

bendix, on 2007-07-06 09:44:02, said:

Oleg_Rus, on 2007-07-06 09:30:19, said:

taxin, on 2007-07-05 19:34:29, said:

I have a question too.
What if a farang was shown the door from his employer but the farang did not have a contract with them ?
Would he be still liable for severance compensation ?

No contract - no job, right? And to confirm that you were actually working w/o contract means you've been working illegally, hence claiming your compensation is aknowledgement of the crime against present labor law.

So to speak, say thank you and hit the door. next time get a written contract.

Hey bendix, what is this riddle :
>>work in management for an international law firm, but I'm not a lawyer.
hm... HR ? PR ? HZ ?
makes me curious

Having no formal contract doesn't necessarily mean you're working illegally, so long as you have a work permit. I'm sure noone working without a work permit would be stupid enough to assume they can claim severance. I could be wrong.

Why curious about a management role in a lawfirm? While I accept I'm fascinating, I wouldn't recommend anyone losing sleep over how I make a crust.

I won a dismissal case without a work permit. I just told the judge I repeatedly asked for one. It wasn't held against me and the judge blasted my employer for failing to do that.

Did this not require any type of documentation on your part regarding your prepeated requests? Very interesting...

[raybkk]

donna, on 2007-07-06 17:58:40, said:

bendix, on 2007-07-05 16:38:12, said:

Do NOT take no for an answer donna. You are entitled to severance pay and a month's notice. The severance depends on how long you have been working for that employer as you already know.

The fact that it was a fixed term contract is irrelevant despite what they say. Talk to a lawyer such as sunbelt and don't for a second think you are screwing the hotel; quite the reverse, that is exactly what they are trying to do to you.

thanks bendix. i have contacted a lawyer in bangkok and he has ems'd some documents down to the hotel. the hotel then have to send the docs to the owning company in singapore. i expect that this will take some time, but the hotel is quite clearly in breach of thai law so they will have to pay up.

i hope it doesnt take too long though. if they want to play hard, i will play harder. i am not letting them get away with not paying me what i am entitled to.

Just go to the Labout Court on Rama4. They have advisors for free and handle all the paperwork! When the Hotel receives a letter from them it will all go very very fast.

[Oleg_Rus]

raybkk, on 2007-07-10 11:29:02, said:

Just go to the Labout Court on Rama4. They have advisors for free and handle all the paperwork! When the Hotel receives a letter from them it will all go very very fast.

Great idea! don't use blood s**kin' lawyers, Ray just gave the right answer for your problem.
Many things can be done faster and cheaper here if you do them on your own. Good luck and keep posted.

[donna]

thanks for the advice raybkk, but i have already been to a lawyer. i didnt go to the labour office simply because a girlfriend took me to her lawyer. i hope to have some news soon and will keep you posted.

[v8tfcorty]

ok let me get my head around this.
im here from australia working on a yearly contract basis after the year is up if they choose to keep me here the contract is renewed for another 12 month term etc etc etc ..

now in my contract it says upon termination of contract iam entitled to either 1 months notice or 1 months pay in lieu at the employers discretion...

from what im reading here if after the contract is due for renewal (and not renewed)or even terminated iam supposed to recieve a severance payout of 3 months wages....

can anyone provide a link to the labor law site that states this as this would be a nice little earner to head back home with

[bendix]

I's not quite as simple as that, although let me deal with the terms first.

If you're liable for severance you would only get three months after you have worked for MORE THAN one year, and less than three. A year, i think, would only qualify you for 1 month. A year and a day, three months.

The one month in lieu or one month notice is over and above that.

HOWEVER, it depends on the nature of your role. If you are on a fixed term contract because the nature of what you're doing is a special project out of the normal run of your company's ordinary activities or if it's seasonal work, for example, then you wouldn't get severance.

But if you are a regular employee and they just have you on a fixed term contract for no good reason, then - yes - you are right.

In fact, in your situation, you should be aware that there are instances where labor courts in Thailand have not only ruled in your favour, but made the employer pay your fare back home (if that's not already covered in your contract).

Can't find a link, but I have confirmed this with several specialist lawyers at my place AND read the relevant legislation which is relatively easy to find. I'm sure if you sent an email to Sunbelt, they will endorse my view.

[bendix]

###### I'm good. I've found the entire text of the Labour Protection Act 1998 online. The relevant sections are 118-122.

http://www.unicz.it/...HAI_LPA(98).htm

[v8tfcorty]

cool cool ty bendix,

my job AFAIK isnt under any kind of threat,
the company im working for was set-up from my australian employer it is not seasonal,or any type of special project.

my contract is renewable every 12 months but was asking just incase they dont re-new one year lol..

and yes ticket home is included

[Ijustwannateach]

Out of curiousity, what would happen to someone who was forced to retire, for example at 60 when work permits are no longer issued? Would they receive severance based on years worked?

"Steven"

[TerryLH]

"... what would happen to someone who was forced to retire, for example at 60 when work permits are no longer issued?"

The part about what would happen to someone being forced to retire is a good question.

The second part, about WP's not being issued after 60, is not true.
Terry

[geronimo]

[quote name='freespace' post='1408643' date='2007-07-09 18:11:20'][quote name='geronimo' post='1405670' date='2007-07-08 03:12:43'][quote name='bendix' post='1402398' date='2007-07-06 09:44:02'][quote name='Oleg_Rus' post='1402369' date='2007-07-06 09:30:19'][quote name='taxin' post='1401537' date='2007-07-05 19:34:29']I have a question too.
What if a farang was shown the door from his employer but the farang did not have a contract with them ?
Would he be still liable for severance compensation ?[/quote]
No contract - no job, right? And to confirm that you were actually working w/o contract means you've been working illegally, hence claiming your compensation is aknowledgement of the crime against present labor law.

So to speak, say thank you and hit the door. next time get a written contract.

Hey bendix, what is this riddle :
>>work in management for an international law firm, but I'm not a lawyer.
hm... HR ? PR ? HZ ?
makes me curious
[/quote]


Having no formal contract doesn't necessarily mean you're working illegally, so long as you have a work permit. I'm sure noone working without a work permit would be stupid enough to assume they can claim severance. I could be wrong.

Why curious about a management role in a lawfirm? While I accept I'm fascinating, I wouldn't recommend anyone losing sleep over how I make a crust.
[/quote]

I won a dismissal case without a work permit. I just told the judge I repeatedly asked for one. It wasn't held against me and the judge blasted my employer for failing to do that.

[/quote]

Did this not require any type of documentation on your part regarding your prepeated requests? Very interesting...
[/quote]

No, just my word under oath

[quiksilva]

There is some seriously valuable information in this thread, (thank you Bendix), I really think this should be pinned.

[wcr]

This is an excellent topic and I have learnt a lot reading stuff here as an employer.

One thing I can't seem to find is holiday entitlement. Can someone please tell me what the law states about the amount of paid holiday employees are entitled to.

Thanks,

Edited by wcr, 2007-07-14 11:07:56.

[v8tfcorty]

AFAIK all the thai people at my work get 2 weeks per year ....

we work 6 days a week so they get 12 days per year.

and according to my work contract there is 30 days sick leave per year ( not sure if this applies to the locals or not)

[donna]

the minimum annual leave is 6 days per year. public holidays add on another 14 days or so (depending on what is decided at the time i guess - look at songkran). minimum sick days with full pay is 30.

[wcr]

I'm ok then. My staff get the stat. days + 12 days a/l (they work 6 days a week also). However I don't like the sick pay, very generous. I am assuming it must all be certified by a doctor, or no sick pay due?

Thanks

[v8tfcorty]

3 or more consecutive sick days requiresd a medical certificate

[geronimo]

[quote name='freespace' post='1408643' date='2007-07-09 18:11:20'][quote name='geronimo' post='1405670' date='2007-07-08 03:12:43'][quote name='bendix' post='1402398' date='2007-07-06 09:44:02'][quote name='Oleg_Rus' post='1402369' date='2007-07-06 09:30:19'][quote name='taxin' post='1401537' date='2007-07-05 19:34:29']I have a question too.
What if a farang was shown the door from his employer but the farang did not have a contract with them ?
Would he be still liable for severance compensation ?[/quote]
No contract - no job, right? And to confirm that you were actually working w/o contract means you've been working illegally, hence claiming your compensation is aknowledgement of the crime against present labor law.

So to speak, say thank you and hit the door. next time get a written contract.

Hey bendix, what is this riddle :
>>work in management for an international law firm, but I'm not a lawyer.
hm... HR ? PR ? HZ ?
makes me curious
[/quote]


Having no formal contract doesn't necessarily mean you're working illegally, so long as you have a work permit. I'm sure noone working without a work permit would be stupid enough to assume they can claim severance. I could be wrong.

Why curious about a management role in a lawfirm? While I accept I'm fascinating, I wouldn't recommend anyone losing sleep over how I make a crust.
[/quote]

I won a dismissal case without a work permit. I just told the judge I repeatedly asked for one. It wasn't held against me and the judge blasted my employer for failing to do that.

[/quote]

Did this not require any type of documentation on your part regarding your prepeated requests? Very interesting...
[/quote]

None at all, in fact the labour court judge was on my side from the word go. It took one year but I was finally awarded 8 months salary.

[onethailand]

Thai labour law is designed to protect the workers and in most cases the law sides with the worker.

That being said, if you are on a fixed-term contract there isn't likely to be much that can be done unless you feel you were unfairly dismissed. Thai labour law will *not* override any contract between employer and employee except in situations where the contract conflicts with the law. Fixed-term is certainly not prohibited by labour law and thus if the employer honors the contract and the contract does not breach the labour law, that's it.

They are, however, still required to give you notice - so if they did not do so then you are entitled to a month's pay in lieu of severance. If they do not meet this obligation, then you have the right to take them to labour court which will rule in your favor - and you could then be eligible to receive additional payments based on costs, damages, etc.

Good luck to you. No one should be unfairly treated by an employer and in this case the very least you should expect is proper notice or severance in lieu.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, the opinion presented above is mine alone and has no bearing in a court of law.

[donna]

the fact that the work i was doing was related to the every day running of the business means that the contract was not fixed term. so i am entitled to more than the 1 month severance.

[onethailand]

donna, on 2007-07-24 12:34:56, said:

the fact that the work i was doing was related to the every day running of the business means that the contract was not fixed term. so i am entitled to more than the 1 month severance.

Contract positions are available at practically any level in a company. Your relevance to the company is not likely to be accepted as an argument. The only other factor which might have any bearing is the duration of your service to the company.

[vegas]

Another point worth mentioning. Some employers will pay a minimum salary to expat employees which they declare to the tax dept. to avoid paying high amounts of tax and pay the remainder in cash to the employee.
If you are terminated you are only entitled to severance pay based on the min amount, despite the fact that your contracted salary may be twice the declared salary. Then if you try to take the employee to court, the revenue dept. will hit you for unpaid taxes if you win the case.

[Neeranam]

Quote

Termination and Severance

An employee normally must be given notice of termination at least one pay period or one month in advance of termination, whichever is shorter. This notice period does not apply to employees being terminated for cause.

Does this have to be in writing?

If I were working for a govt. university for 3 years and they told me they didn't want to renew my contract 1 month before, would I still be entitled to 3 months?

Edited by Neeranam, 2007-07-24 13:54:32.