Posted 2007-10-14 10:54:09
 Tolley, on 2007-10-14 10:29:27, said:
Interesting information and very timely for a friend of mine who was arrested yesterday and who has overstayed his visa by 15 months.
The local plod wanted 100k baht for bail but he didn't have the funds and nobody was prepared to front the money for him.
It seems that he will be charged on Monday and fined 3000 baht and then sent to IDC in Bangkok.
Even if he is deported can he still return to Thailand?
This seems strange but the OP maintains that this is the case, can anyone else confirm this?
If it is just an immigration offence, you are not black-listed. You are deported. You can jump on the next plane back to Thailand with no problems.
One point that has not been mentioned.
You will have to fly on an airline from your home country as they cannot refuse to carry you. If you are say British, but, want to fly back to England with say Thai International, the pilot of the plane is asked whether he is willing to transport a criminal. They don't tell him the offence. 9 times out of 10, the pilot will refuse. This is why you usually travel on your home countries airline.
Also, this must be a direct flight (no changing planes).
If you must change planes, then you have to get a piece of paper from that country granting you permission before you are deported.
I was in IDC in 2003. The vast majority of the long stayers were Africans, or, other exotic nationalities. They were unable to leave because their national airline did not fly to Thailand, or, they were being refused the transfer paper from the country that they needed to change planes in.
Posted 2007-10-14 11:02:54
Lot of good info there
Posted 2007-10-14 11:06:11
i visited a friend in the idc once on christmas day , he told me that he had arranged with a guard there to be taken to a bar / house of ill repute for some entertainment and female company, he treated the guard to some fun too.
this was a while ago , procedures may have changed now.
have no reason to disbelieve him , he was a long term old thai hand and had "gone native" many years before.
passed him his christmas lunch through the bars of the holding cell and gave him a paper party hat !!
he was in for no passport , 3 years overstay , working illegally. was in for a couple of months before it was all sorted out . he was fined and deported , all done in a friendly manner , he came back to thailand again and as far as i know he is still here.
Posted 2007-10-14 11:11:38
Does the Thai government, likewise give loans to its people, who overstay in foreign countries, so that they may purchase plane tickets and pay for transportation costs,and fines, in order to be repatriated to the LOS?
Posted 2007-10-14 14:24:51
Prakanong, on 2007-08-22 14:25:06, said: I currently know of a guy with 4 years overstay and a passport 2 years expired - the police even gave him his passport back a couple of weeks ago when he answered bail (which was continued) for something else.
Amazing but true.
This sort of thing happens more than you'd believe. I too know a guy on a 3 year overstay who was picked up by Lumpini Police for "unlawful entry to the country" and was jailed for 13 days. Some months before the arrest, he had his passport stolen as he was sleeping on the street (he's a homeless brit). He went to court with his police report for the stolen passport and was cleared of charges and released. He's still sleeping on the street (saw him last night) and still has no passport (cant afford one if he wanted one). The place where he sleeps has a few tables of cops who hang there nightly so clearly they dont care. I guess this means that just because non immi police pick you up, this doesnt mean you are automatically sent to the IDC. This brit got no where near the IDC or immi police.
On a side note, I have always been told by long overstayers that they take 20K and go to airport and depart when it comes time to leave the country. Going to immi with the 20K never crosses their minds and they never had any probs. A guy who's so lazy as not to get a visa normally wont be bothered to go out of his way and go to immi
Edited by Fred Sanford, 2007-10-14 14:25:33.
Posted 2007-10-14 14:26:04
Oy vey.
I need this kind of fun like a hole in my head!
Posted 2007-10-14 15:16:07
I want to clarify some things here for all as there seems to be a bit of misunderstanding.
First thing:
Yes you are right, you may be lucky when you front up and ask for your clearance to leave the country! You have still broken the law, and this doesn't go down well with some of the Immigration Police as they feel it is a slap in the face for immigration law and want to detain you further just for the heck of it!
Second thing:
The immigration police actually get a clearance from the airline before they take you to the airport to deport you! An officer escorts in a very nice manner and takes you to check in. The check in counter staff ask about your reason for deportation and if it is just and overstay they will say yes.
Most of the countries that fit the 30 day visa exemption group can fly to Hong Kong and stay overnight and then return to Thailand without any problem. No you are not blackbanned and if you have not exceeded the 180 rule I imagine you will be let back in. My advice is for you is to get a visa in an embassy and then return.
Third thing:
Things must have changed as the majority of people of African decent staying in the IDC leave through several airport connections. I know the man that does the arranging for then. Biggest problem for them is to get the money to pay for the passport and ticket to return home. I know several that have flown home to Ghana through Egypt and South Africa!
Fourth thing:
As I said in my original post. The IDC is not all that bad and substantially better that any Thai jail. They have a system that allows a person to be visited every day and food of almost any sort may be brought in and after inspection given directly to the prisoner. Cash money can be held by the prisoner and with discretion a cellphone can also be kept in your cell.
Fifth thing:
No the Thai government doesn't give loans to anyone to finance your return home. There are several refugee agencies that do have money and after 6 months in the IDC, if it can be verified that you are who you say you are they will foot the ticket and have you on a plane to get home. Most embassies will also arrange to contact your family or in a worst case loan you the money and give you a one way passport with one page in it to allow your return to your country of birth.
There are a number of people in the IDC that have been there for 6 + years! They don't want to leave and do not have any desire to return to their home country. Most of them are wanted in their home country on serious charges and have not admitted to a name. Several of them are mentally ill and a couple have feigned mental illness. One of them is trying to get Thai nationality after 10 years of detention. Frankly I think his chances are extremly small and he may just die there.
The IDC staff for all of their problems do a good job with the resources they are given! They are always extremely kind and very very cooperative for almost anything I ask for. Yet it is a far from perfect environment for someone to enjoy his vacation in Thailand.
"I need this kind of fun like a hole in my head!" You are right Jingthing!
If you come here get a visa and make sure you stay legal or I may see you there! 
Badbanker
Posted 2007-10-14 17:01:06
Some of the people I've known previously to get themselves into a massive overstay problem often with no passport:
- have had chronic alcohol or drug problems
- or have simply run out of money with no-one left to help them - either here or in their home country
- and have been unable to support themselves because of their addiction or lack of employment skills - education - inclination - desire - whatever -
- or have simply burnt themselves out because of BKK.
Posted 2007-10-14 17:08:17
If i'm ready to pay 20K Baht and i'm on my way to the airport i would always be
worried to stay in a hotel or even Kaosan buesthouse in Bangkok. In the past just
one hotel was not checking my passport and my visa because they were just to busy.
Will they report guests to the thai police or will they just refuse your check-in?
Posted 2007-10-14 18:40:21
Badbanker, on 2007-10-14 02:51:07, said: ...never seen anyone in court for an overstay, be fined over 3,000 baht...
There was one case, reported here, where the court sentenced an overstayer to a fine of 15,000 Baht but from your report I now understand that the court-ordered fine is usually only 3,000 Baht.
--
Maestro
Posted 2007-10-14 19:48:34
Maestro, on 2007-10-14 18:40:21, said: Badbanker, on 2007-10-14 02:51:07, said: ...never seen anyone in court for an overstay, be fined over 3,000 baht...
There was one case, reported here, where the court sentenced an overstayer to a fine of 15,000 Baht but from your report I now understand that the court-ordered fine is usually only 3,000 Baht.
--
Maestro
Maestro
I respect your input to this board immensly but I have been in Bangna Court house 3 times this year. On each occassion I was also the court translator! My 3 friends were given a 3,000 baht fine and this was discounted by 200 baht for each day in police detention. I went to pay this fine and I can get you a copy of this document if you wish.
I think it also depends on which court you go to for your deportation order! Thonburi is not a court commonly used for deportation hearings but Bangna for some strange reason is. It always takes literally 2 mins to finish the case.
We go in the Judge asks the guy if his name is Mr. Smith. I translate this and Mr. Smith says it is. They then ask Mr. Smith if he realises he has overstayed his visa. After translation and he says yes, the judge says you are in breach of immigration law and because of this, I fine you 3,000 baht minus 200 baht per day for each day you have been in Police Detention. Case closed!
I then go upstairs to the clerk and pay the money and get a receipt and then come down and give it to the police officer who then takes my man back to the police car to be sent back to the lockup and then to the IDC.
BB
Edited by Badbanker, 2007-10-14 19:49:04.
Posted 2007-10-14 20:19:27
I always try to stay legal as I stay usally 30 to 60 days right now as i still need to take care of bussi ness intrrest in the US.
But when I am in LOS i usally dont carry me Pastport on me just a copy in my pocket. I know you are supposed to carry it on you. But how important is this . I dont carry it usally because I dont want
to lose it . My ? is will the police take the copy if they check this , I a have never been checked and I have been coming back anf forth for 8 years.
Posted 2007-10-14 20:26:25
As long as you have a copy or other Thai photo ID you will normally be OK. There were a few pub busts under a former Interior Minister where police demanded to see passports before releasing foreigners but have not heard of any such actions since that time. That said I usually carry passport myself as my drivers photo is about 37 years old and although I might think it looks like me; suspect others might not.
Posted 2007-10-14 21:13:10
In 20 years of being here I have never once been asked for an ID!
I am wondering if the sudden spate of overstay interest is, because there are a growing number of people that are tired of trying to stay here legally and wonder if the other option is all that bad!
There are some that would say it isn't, but I wouldn't trade my comforts and freedom, for the IDC for anything. Actually the Sarawat at the IDC would probably say to me "go and get yourself out of Dodge" if I ever did overstay and got caught!
The crack down on visa runners and genuine people wanting to stay long term in Thailand is already having a serious effect on many of my friends. Eventually this is going to translate into new visa regulations or a lack of revenue for many!
This is the worst exodus I have seen in 20 years!
BB
Edited by Badbanker, 2007-10-14 21:14:01.
Posted 2007-10-14 23:41:20
Hi badbanker, and anyone else reading this.
This information is interesting, and although it doesn't directly affect me, I have a question. This is a purely theoretical question, I'm totally 100% within the rules and intend to stay that way. But as you know in the LoS, many other things may cause problems…
The question is as follows: what happens if you are arrested for overstay (or anything else for that matter) with regard to necessary medication whilst languishing in the cells? I have a complicated chronic medical condition that requires me to take a specialised medicine every 12 hours which is, (i) not available in Thailand, and (ii) is very expensive. That medicine causes side effects which have to be counteracted by other medicines, one of which again cannot be obtained here (as with the first medicine mentioned, I have checked availability at the Bangkok Hospital), and is also extortionately priced. Can you take your own medications into the monkey house with you? If not, what do they do, as I really cannot imagine Thai police, whether of the immigration ilk or any other sort, happily paying my medicine bills? I can hardly afford them myself!
I just wanted to ask this out of curiosity. From your regular visits to the IDC you must occasionally come across someone with something like my medical situation. Thanks for any insights.
Posted 2007-10-15 00:22:16
Thai police paying medicine bills? nope that aint going to happen
Posted 2007-10-15 00:24:19
Thailand can be very brutal that way.
Posted 2007-10-15 01:18:47
Thanks am I right in my understanding a copy of my US passsport and a US drivers license would most likley be ok if I get checked . And like I said I know you are supposed to keep it with You.
But i dont want it(passport ) to get loast or pickpocketed
Posted 2007-10-15 06:04:17
Guderian, on 2007-10-14 23:41:20, said: Hi badbanker, and anyone else reading this.
This information is interesting, and although it doesn't directly affect me, I have a question. This is a purely theoretical question, I'm totally 100% within the rules and intend to stay that way. But as you know in the LoS, many other things may cause problems…
The question is as follows: what happens if you are arrested for overstay (or anything else for that matter) with regard to necessary medication whilst languishing in the cells? I have a complicated chronic medical condition that requires me to take a specialised medicine every 12 hours which is, (i) not available in Thailand, and (ii) is very expensive. That medicine causes side effects which have to be counteracted by other medicines, one of which again cannot be obtained here (as with the first medicine mentioned, I have checked availability at the Bangkok Hospital), and is also extortionately priced. Can you take your own medications into the monkey house with you? If not, what do they do, as I really cannot imagine Thai police, whether of the immigration ilk or any other sort, happily paying my medicine bills? I can hardly afford them myself!
I just wanted to ask this out of curiosity. From your regular visits to the IDC you must occasionally come across someone with something like my medical situation. Thanks for any insights.
There is a full clinic with a nurse and doctor in attendance at the IDC. Sadly this facility would not be able to cope with your medical requirements. Every morning at 9am there is a nurse that goes round every cell to check on the condition of each detainee. If you require medication you can ask to see the doctor at 10am. As in any institution there are people that want to take advantage of the system and so till they know you, it is difficult to get what you need.
Yes they will happily allow you to take you medication with you and keep it in a cell. In a case such as this your embassy would need to be EXTREMELY heavily involved to ensure your needs are met. I do know of a number of cases of Patients that are regularly taken out of the IDC to the Police Hospital for further more complex treatment.
Embassies can come and go at will to the IDC with little or no restriction before 10am and after 1pm Monday to Friday. The Sarawat once told me he really feals sorry for all the people in the IDC as they are not criminals just overstayers and it is his duty to get them repatriated to their home country. This is the attitude I have sensed on a number of occassions at the IDC!
BB
PS There are also several hundred North Korean refugees waiting for repatriation at any one time!
Posted 2007-10-15 07:47:30
Great topic,very interesting,but i will still try and steer clear of the IDC. 
Posted 2007-10-15 08:14:00
Jingthing, on 2007-10-15 00:24:19, said: Thailand can be very brutal that way.
Death of Royal in Thai Jail.
http://travelwirenews.com/eTN/14AUG2006.htm
Posted 2007-10-15 10:35:11
i would hope not as we really don't need lawbreaking foreigners residing here in los. it makes all of us that abide by the laws here look bad. unfortunately, i have heard that like the op states, usually, a visa overstay is not a black-listing offense. unless there was some other hanky panky going on during the overstay (e.g., pedophilia or other criminal activity).
Posted 2007-10-15 12:10:53
PadThaiGuy, on 2007-10-15 08:14:00, said:
PadThaiGuy,
Thank you for posting that, but it doesn't make me feel in the least bit comfortable  ! I was taking a holiday in the UK last year when this happened, and so missed it. I'm very surprised that it didn't make bigger headlines outside Thailand. But it seems to answer my question. If a Prince with good connections can die from a lack of something cheap and basic like insulin in a Thai prison, then a spell inside here is simply going to be a death sentence for some people like myself. 
This really makes me wonder if I am doing the right/sensible thing, retiring to Thailand? I don't imagine for one second that prisons in The Philippines or Cambodia would be any better of course, but at least in those countries there is probably a lot more scope for paying the police off and avoiding incarceration in the event of trouble.
It's not that I am planning on doing anything criminal, but I have lived in Pattaya for 3 years and I have seen how easy it is to get into trouble through no fault of your own. And that's in a relatively tourist-friendly town.
Do you know why he was put into the Bangkok Remand Prison instead of the IDC?
Again, thanks for the informative link.
Badbanker, on 2007-10-15 06:04:17, said: There is a full clinic with a nurse and doctor in attendance at the IDC. Sadly this facility would not be able to cope with your medical requirements. Every morning at 9am there is a nurse that goes round every cell to check on the condition of each detainee. If you require medication you can ask to see the doctor at 10am. As in any institution there are people that want to take advantage of the system and so till they know you, it is difficult to get what you need.
Yes they will happily allow you to take you medication with you and keep it in a cell. In a case such as this your embassy would need to be EXTREMELY heavily involved to ensure your needs are met. I do know of a number of cases of Patients that are regularly taken out of the IDC to the Police Hospital for further more complex treatment.
Embassies can come and go at will to the IDC with little or no restriction before 10am and after 1pm Monday to Friday. The Sarawat once told me he really feals sorry for all the people in the IDC as they are not criminals just overstayers and it is his duty to get them repatriated to their home country. This is the attitude I have sensed on a number of occassions at the IDC!
BB
PS There are also several hundred North Korean refugees waiting for repatriation at any one time!
BB,
Thanks for the information. Although it's clearly a place to be avoided, the IDC sounds like it is fairly humane, presumably because simple overstay is not a criminal offence?
So the Prince in the story linked to by PadThaiGuy above was perhaps sent to his death in the Bangkok Remand Prison rather than to the IDC because he tried to forge the dates on his entry permit, which I guess IS a criminal offence? If that's correct, then people who may get into an overstay situation should be aware of it, and not be tempted to try and do anything foolish with their entry permit.
Regards.
Posted 2007-10-16 08:00:05
PadThaiGuy, on 2007-10-15 08:14:00, said:
" Concerned that he would again missed his flight, he made the innocent mistake of forging his entry card document. "
Hmm... Fair and balanced just like Fox news.
Posted 2007-10-16 08:51:25
Badbanker,
firstly thank you for your OP, very informative and I'm sure quite useful to any TV members that are in the overstay situation. I would like to commend you for your charitable nature, you are clearly a prince among men for helping those less fortunate than yourself.
If there were more expats like you in Thailand perhaps the Immigration department wouldn't feel the need to make it harder for us to come to the LOS.
Anyway, that's my Zacs worth, good on you mate.
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