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[navajo]

Make all the laws that apply to foreigners in Thailand apply to Thai people in the countries foreigners have come
from. There is nothing special about Thailand...Nothing at all. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

It is no small wonder why foreign buisness many are opening up corporations in their own names with 100% ownership of all the shares. Thailand is a closed society. They want but they return nothing.

[s.pylos]

billaaa777, on 2007-09-01 08:53:22, said:

...

How can anybody live and do business in place they modify the height of the bar constantly. And they wonder why their economy is in the dumps. The only thing that remains constant here is nothing remains constant. What an F’n JOKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You just understood a fundamental Buddhist principle: "Nothing is permanent!"

[Yukhoh]

Some of you say that Thai economy is not affected by farang having to leave Thailand.
I live in Chiang Mai and when I compare biss now against one year ago, I would say it is alot less now or better say dramatic. Reasons? Whatever one believes; coup, tsunami, smog, but probably also abandoning visa runners and other anti faranf measures.
Not only in Chiang Mai, but also much more quiet in Pattaya, Phuket and all other southern places so I am told by Thai people.
I say economy will be affected but might be half as bad as I think.

[BlackJack]

You have to look at the big picture

The stats for this year show that head of the list of retirement visa approvals is CHINA with INDIA and JAPAN close. The farang is way down the list.

So if Thai Officials allow this to continue with Mr Wong and 10 kids all under 800,000 baht retirement scheme, then the future looks grim for Thailand.

UNfortunately in the big net gets caught the small fish and so I feel for those that planned for their retirement -

Somethings in life are certain - tax, death and changes to the law.

TRY Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia

[s.pylos]

Remember a few months ago when many rejoice that Thailand was finally taking the necessary steps to get rid of "the scum backpackers, fake English teachers and tax-evaders"? Some warmed those gloating and goose-walking that Immigration might come after them next....

Here we go...
[sandy]

[fiddlehead]

Yeah, it's tough getting discriminated against.
Payback is a b1tch.
Probably someone in power has had a relative or themselves discriminated against in another country.
Sad.

Not too many comments about the map.
I wonder if my hand drawn map would suffice or will they require a govt. issued one (google earth?)

I too have not met a Thai who can read one.
Once when i was explaining to someone in Issan how to drive to Bangkok and using my map for a reference to all of the turns, the Thai lady said to me: "Where can i get one of those picture things with the town names on it?" I told her you had to go to Bangkok to get one.

I keep trying to get my wife to learn to read one but she still can't figure out which way is her home when we are at the beach. She points the wrong way more than 75% of the time! Perhaps the immigration officials are smarter.

[distortedlink]

What the new rules mean is that a foreign husband with a foreign spouse or dependant living in Thailand will have to prove that both parties are financially independent.

A retiree who was required by the imposed rules to hold 800000 baht for a Non Imm visa, now as a couple has to show double, 160000 baht.

Fair enough, Thailand is not a welfare state and foreigners wishing to stay here should be prepared for such changes prior to coming over to Thailand or other countries.

There are foreigners that are and have been abusing the immigration rule system here for years. Examples, claiming to work for friend's company, friend obtaining work permits but reality is they are giving false statement, not actually working for friend's company. Working illegally, avoiding Immigration with visa runs, marriages of convenience to Thais for business purposes and property controlling.

Immigration are fully aware of what's going on, meaning more tighter rules and difficulties for the bide by the rules legitimate long-term residents.

Discontinue the visa runs, clamp down on permanent tourists.

Edited by distortedlink, 2007-09-01 09:59:56.

[sangfroid]

BlackJack, on 2007-09-01 09:56:19, said:

You have to look at the big picture

The stats for this year show that head of the list of retirement visa approvals is CHINA with INDIA and JAPAN close. The farang is way down the list.

So if Thai Officials allow this to continue with Mr Wong and 10 kids all under 800,000 baht retirement scheme, then the future looks grim for Thailand.

UNfortunately in the big net gets caught the small fish and so I feel for those that planned for their retirement -

Somethings in life are certain - tax, death and changes to the law.

TRY Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia

The Malaysians with their "Retire to Malaysia" program must be laughing their heads off

[chickencurry]

ovenman, on 2007-09-01 10:44:00, said:

Mobi, on 2007-09-01 09:28:37, said:

chiang mai, on 2007-09-01 09:24:18, said:

As pleasant and desirable as the country may be, there comes a point where Thailand is no longer a cost effective or desirable option and this type of ruling pushes us all closer to that line. Am I alone in thinking that one morning in the future I might wake up to read a post on TV announcing that Immigration has now doubled to 1,600,000 per year the amount of money required for a retirement visa each year and without the benefit of any grandfather clause? Think about it, it's a very real possibility.

You better believe it my friend....

Raising the retirement age to 60 or 65 with again, no grandfathering, would have an even bigger effect.

Yes but the trend was bringing it down wasn't it? I believe it was higher than 50 only a few years ago? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

I have only recently got my retirement visa and thankfully over 50 so not affected (yet) but this is truly dreadful news for a lot of people.

[Lite Beer]

fiddlehead, on 2007-09-01 09:57:24, said:

Perhaps the immigration officials are smarter.

[Martin]

Tai people in the region have been given a very bad impression of farangs over the centuries.

The Brits took neighbouring Burma and Malaya, and the French took neighbouring Laos and Cambodia.
The Brits forced themselves upom Siam with the Bowring Treaty.

Their underlying view of farangs is:"Farang's are aggressive and we are not, and so we are vulnerable to them."

We farangs really do have to accept that the praiseworthy view of our nations, with which we were brainwashed in our childhood, is not held by the people of this region.

And we should not be surprised that those of the Tai people who are now living within the nation state of Thailand don't want us here.

[coalminer]

The number of posts where ThaiVisa members wrote "it doesn't affect me" is specific for the fahrangs and the fahrang community.

Only "PeaceBlonde" made the right analyzis of the situation and has got the guts to write it down:

"First they came for the backpackers, but nobody objected. Then they came for the visa runners, and nobody wrote the MFA or the Immigration Police. Then they came for these men and ladies, and most of us will do nothing."

Today it's them, tomorrow it can and it will be YOU who is affected.

The fahrang community should unite, write to their specific governments abroad about these laws, and publish this racist behavior in foreign newspapers.

That would hurt the Thai economy right where it hurts the most and make them think twice about such laws.

[ovenman]

chickencurry, on 2007-09-01 10:01:10, said:

ovenman, on 2007-09-01 10:44:00, said:

Mobi, on 2007-09-01 09:28:37, said:

chiang mai, on 2007-09-01 09:24:18, said:

As pleasant and desirable as the country may be, there comes a point where Thailand is no longer a cost effective or desirable option and this type of ruling pushes us all closer to that line. Am I alone in thinking that one morning in the future I might wake up to read a post on TV announcing that Immigration has now doubled to 1,600,000 per year the amount of money required for a retirement visa each year and without the benefit of any grandfather clause? Think about it, it's a very real possibility.

You better believe it my friend....

Raising the retirement age to 60 or 65 with again, no grandfathering, would have an even bigger effect.

Yes but the trend was bringing it down wasn't it? I believe it was higher than 50 only a few years ago? Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Emphasis on was. The change from 55 to 50 happened ten years ago or so if memory serves. In case you hadn't noticed, the current "climate" is a bit different than it was then.

[otherstuff1957]

I may be wrong, but I think that there are many more retirees here who have Thai wives or girlfriends than there are Farang couples. I don't think that this change will lead to a mass exodus directly, at the most, a couple of thousand people may pack up and go.

Far more disturbing is the general trend of the imm. laws! While the number of people directly affected by this change will be relatively small, the real question is: Who's next?

Now, as for the economic effects of this sort of thing, most of Thailand is outside of the 'Farang ghetto'. While a Farang exodus would have some effect in Pattaya, Phuket and Chiang Mai, it wouldn't be noticed in Pichit or Lampang or Trang!

[BlackJack]

Martin, on 2007-09-01 10:02:32, said:

Tai people in the region have been given a very bad impression of farangs over the centuries.

The Brits took neighbouring Burma and Malaya, and the French took neighbouring Laos and Cambodia.
The Brits forced themselves upom Siam with the Bowring Treaty.

Their underlying view of farangs is:"Farang's are aggressive and we are not, and so we are vulnerable to them."

We farangs really do have to accept that the praiseworthy view of our nations, with which we were brainwashed in our childhood, is not held by the people of this region.

And we should not be surprised that those of the Tai people who are now living within the nation state of Thailand don't want us here.

Its THAI and not Tai

[bggg]

Excuse my lack of knowledge on this, but do the terms "extension of stay" and "renewal" in this case meanthe same? I am spouse to a retired husband. We renew each year based on this status. I am still quite a nember of years away from qualifying myself for retirement. I could qualify as custodial parent of a student, but that means another 800,000 baht on the bank each year at renewal time and I for one don't like bringing 800,000 baht in the country to sit in the bank what with how unstable things are here now, let alone 1,600,000 baht.

[Sateev]

navajo, on 2007-08-31 12:44:29, said:

Make all the laws that apply to foreigners in Thailand apply to Thai people in the countries foreigners have come
from. There is nothing special about Thailand...Nothing at all. What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

It is no small wonder why foreign buisness many are opening up corporations in their own names with 100% ownership of all the shares. Thailand is a closed society. They want but they return nothing.

If somebody dropped a stack of dimes to CBP in LA, you wouldn't find a single Thai restaurant open the next day. More Thai 'students' make their living, and stay indefinitely (or at least until they can find a 'green-card marriage') working illegally as wait staff in Thai restaurants than are there legally.

Still, I don't advocate 'tit-for-tat' either. I just marvel at the hypocrisy and utter disregard for the lives of people who have chosen to legally (until today) settle here, bring and spend their retirement funds, and raise their children...

I guess the 1 Sept. 2007 effectivity is designed to sort things before the 23 Dec. 'election'...

Oh, and neither am I affected, although I have a ticket back to the US for the end of this month...actually, I hope no one does retaliate, because the only krapow I'll be eating any time soon will be in Thaitown...

Sateev

[sydmike]

Does anyone on this board honestly think that the Thais have less of a right to control who comes and stays in Thailand than all the countries that the winging and moaning people on this forum come from ????

Look at the retirement/residence options that the UK, Western Europe etc. provide for non EU/UK residents - I am Australian and come here two weeks per month for business. I have NO desire to live here long term as I would rather live in Oz. However I do like Thailand and the people but also respect their sovereign right to determine who comes and goes.

I work in the finance and IT industries and we employ 12 full time and 20 part time Thais. We have never had any problems getting multiple entry visas and two of us have work permits. In my experience the Thai's are appreciative of businesses that develop the country and farangs that help them do so. However I know they are embarrassed about the faring enclaves in Pattaya and other such places and don't really put such developments in the "desirable" category.

The Thais have much bigger problems than worrying about the effect of their immigration policies on the farang "retirement" population (no one should be retired at 50!!) eg. poverty in the NE, AIDS, insurgency in the south, lack of a democracy etc. etc.

Isn't it just Western arrogance that we should assume that The Thais care about the ups and downs of westerners trying to stay here?

Also the amount of moaning about Thailand I see on this board makes me wonder that why people want to stay at all. Maybe that should all go back to "Sunny" England or wherever they come from.

[tominchaam]

Sunbelt – it would be appreciated if you could give your idea about the direct or indirect reasons behind these changes. I assume there is a specific group of people Immigration want to target.

[bobbbandung]

rainman, on 2007-09-01 02:13:39, said:

Sunbelt Asia, on 2007-09-01 00:48:51, said:

As of Sept 1st, no more dependent extension of stay permits will be issued if the foreigner has a extension of stay based on retirement. This includes any "grandfather" cases where the dependent applicant had the extension of stay before Sept 1st 2007.

Not being affected myself, I think that will be very bad news for many families currently living in Thailand. I can understand their decision to not accept new applications, but virtually kicking out those who are currently living here under the regulations they made is very very bad.

Well !! Having just returned from my hols in Issan and viewing the current falang Thai relationship thing, all was well up in reality land. Now this revalation by our sponsors just shows how insular these city people have become.

Normally I would not respond to the banter that we all love to read on this site, but this one seems to have pushed my button. I think we all love Thailand and Her people and tollerate much administrative mischief by the ruling powers in the city, as I beleive most of us are law abiding genuine people, living as guests of his Majesty in the Kingdom.

I did consider retiring in Thailand, having a wife step daughter and a baby of 15 months. Now this mischief has happened, and having assessed just what the adminastrative regulations offer my family and myself for a life to retire and be part of the structure here have all but dissapeared.

Without going into too much detail, my miserly income of 2 million p/a will be going elsewhere to build my childrens future in a more accomodating civilised society. Being a westerner thankfully this will not be too much hassle.

Som nom 4 the beurocrats.

[Sateev]

BlackJack, on 2007-08-31 13:11:22, said:

Martin, on 2007-09-01 10:02:32, said:

Tai people in the region have been given a very bad impression of farangs over the centuries.

The Brits took neighbouring Burma and Malaya, and the French took neighbouring Laos and Cambodia.
The Brits forced themselves upom Siam with the Bowring Treaty.

Their underlying view of farangs is:"Farang's are aggressive and we are not, and so we are vulnerable to them."

We farangs really do have to accept that the praiseworthy view of our nations, with which we were brainwashed in our childhood, is not held by the people of this region.

And we should not be surprised that those of the Tai people who are now living within the nation state of Thailand don't want us here.

Its THAI and not Tai

Actually, 'Tai' is correct, since the OP refers to historical times, before the renaming of Siam to Thailand, or even the unification of the Tai people into Siam. Tai is an ethnic name, and refers to the race of people inhabiting what is now Thailand.

I think, unless I am giving the OP more credit than due, his post is spot on. His grasp of the history of the region seems pretty good...

Sateev

[chiang mai]

coalminer, on 2007-09-01 10:04:15, said:

The number of posts where ThaiVisa members wrote "it doesn't affect me" is specific for the fahrangs and the fahrang community.

Only "PeaceBlonde" made the right analyzis of the situation and has got the guts to write it down:

"First they came for the backpackers, but nobody objected. Then they came for the visa runners, and nobody wrote the MFA or the Immigration Police. Then they came for these men and ladies, and most of us will do nothing."

Today it's them, tomorrow it can and it will be YOU who is affected.

The fahrang community should unite, write to their specific governments abroad about these laws, and publish this racist behavior in foreign newspapers.

That would hurt the Thai economy right where it hurts the most and make them think twice about such laws.

I am all in favor of some form of action, despite the fact that I do not necessarily believe it would be effective. Writing to foreign newspapers is certainly a way to start and will be interested to read if anyone else has other useful ideas. I know, we could all get together and and have a march in Bangkok on the government offices, that way we could all get kicked out together and save the anxiety of waiting for the inevitable and demonstrate our solidarity for other farangs. Sorry, couldn't resist that.

[ruddick]

BlackJack, on 2007-09-01 10:11:22, said:

Martin, on 2007-09-01 10:02:32, said:

Tai people in the region have been given a very bad impression of farangs over the centuries.

The Brits took neighbouring Burma and Malaya, and the French took neighbouring Laos and Cambodia.
The Brits forced themselves upom Siam with the Bowring Treaty.

Their underlying view of farangs is:"Farang's are aggressive and we are not, and so we are vulnerable to them."

We farangs really do have to accept that the praiseworthy view of our nations, with which we were brainwashed in our childhood, is not held by the people of this region.

And we should not be surprised that those of the Tai people who are now living within the nation state of Thailand don't want us here.

Its THAI and not Tai

The Tai were an ethnic group who were driven out of southern China a long time ago and settled in among other places the country which we now know as Thailand

[TexasRanger]

This country becomes more of a joke as the days roll by. Even my wife agrees that they are becoming a global embarrassment. This just reinforces my decision to treat this place as a NON (O) holiday place in a rented condo. People are right in saying don't burn your bridges, I could make a fortune by selling my home overseas and buy something here, but now that would just seem to be idiotic. It is still financially better for me to stay here, but I think soon that may be reviewed, after all, cheapness was pretty much all this place had going for it.
I feel very sorry for the people affected and hope they didn't burn their bridges at home.

[bully]

Of course, this is the daily surprise behind the BIG SMILE. I am not effected by this new,, out of the blue,, rule but I am going to regret the day I decided to live in Thailand. What is next ??
The property market -/- 50 % sales comparing to 2006 will sufer at least another 20 %.