I have been a pasenger many times on planes that have landed in storms. I can just picture the plane comming in on instruments maybe a little bump here and there. Set for a perfect landing and then a burst of downward wind (wind shear) caused by a sudden downpour. 100 meters can be the difference between no wind(or upward) to a strong downward wind. This could have the effect of slamming the plane to the ground so hard that it damages or breaks the wings off (as noted earlier fire comming from wing after first bounce). After this damage I am sure the pilot has little control of what happens. There is equipment that can detect this wind shear and who knows if the equipment is available in this case. Also maybe the winds could have come up so sudden as the equipment only detects current situation. The video of the passengers getting out of the plane while no wind or rain was present does not mean that wind did not bring down the plane. Just a few yards can make the difference with wind shear. From the reports the plane used alot of the runway before skidding off and that sudden stop.
RIP
Windshear is caused by thunderstorm downdrafts not rain, but you're right about the difference between the moment of impact and when the film was shot. Weather can change very fast around Phuket. Especially at this time of year.
Wind shear is a sudden change in either wind speed or direction within a short distance, causing a sudden gain or loss of lift for aircraft.
It is generally associated with frontal weather systems, particularly thunderstorms, and can also be affected by the topography of the area.
It can easily destabilise an aircraft and is one of the most challenging conditions a pilot can face.
Wind sheer poses the greatest risk to an aircraft during take off or landing when it is flying just above stall speed.
A particularly dangerous form is vertical wind shear (also known as a microburst), where wind suddenly reverses from blowing slightly upwards under the aircraft to a downward direction, creating a downward force on the aircraft.
So we can see that atleast 3 minutes past touchdown there is NO sign of any rescue trucks. That is NOT a good thing. And they had recently done a 'successful' exercise.
Edit- although there is fairly strong wind in the video it doesn't appear to be raining hard. That said, however, the guys in the video are soaked which suggests it was raining heavily a few moments before.
CDNVIC: there was a report from an eyewitness who observed the crash from a plane which was said to have landed after the MD-82. I would have thought all flights would have been diverted immediately.
Regarding IFR, VFR etc, on final approach it doesn't matter which flight rules are being used, or perhaps none at all. The aircraft must be flown within the defined glide slope parameters. This requires the pilot in command to fly the plane (focus external) and the other pilot to observe the cockpit instruments and aircraft performence (focus internal).
Therefore the pilot flying the plane would have been fully visually aware of the external weather conditions throughout the final approach.
A clear case of pilot error for choosing to land in unsafe weather conditions.....ie. conditions which, if they were to deteriorate, could exceed the aircraft's specification and the pilot not allowing enough margin to inititiate a "go-around" successfully before those specifications were exceeded.
As stated elsewhere in this thread, the pilot took a chance, gambled and lost.
How can you be so sure its a clear case of anything? Have you listened to the black box voice recordings? Have you analysed all the technical flight data on there? Plotted the flight path? Inspected the wreckage?
I asked this early on in this thread, but now with 21 pages, I am not going to read them all.
Does anyone know if Phuket airport has Doppler radar? It shows directions and speeds of winds and is most useful during storms. After some tragic crashes in the US 15-20 years ago, most airports now use it. Still, I would imagine there are still some smaller airports which haven't upgraded their radar equipment. Is Phuket one of these?
Phuket doesn't have equipment to detect windshear according to CNN.
Thanks. The link below contains info on the airline crash I had in mind when asking about Phuket's Dopplar capabilities. It was after this tragic crash that DFW put in Dopplar radar so that its control tower could avoid this in the future. For those in the US, these days you will be used to The Weather Channel constantly referring to Dopplar radar to show wind conditions in storms.
For those interested in Dopplar radar, you can google it and find out more about it than you would ever want to know.
PHUKET: The emergency response drill at Phuket International Airport (PIA) on Thursday was a “success”, PIA Director Sq Ldr Pornchai Eua-aree told a press conference after the event.
The drill started at 10 am with PIA air traffic control guiding a Thai Airways International Airbus A300-600 simulating engine trouble in to land.
Once safely stopped on the tarmac, the aircraft was quickly doused by fire trucks and firemen on the ground in high-heat-resistant firefighting suits.
Fake red smoke bellowed from the aircraft’s engine and a simulated explosion boomed across the airport.
SEE THE REST OF THE ARTICLE ONLINE ON THE ABOVE LINK...
British backpacker hailed as hero of Sunday's air crash
A British backpacker was hailed a hero of the Thailand air crash after dragging a pal from the blazing wreckage — then going back in to save other passengers, London-based the Sun online reported.
Peter Hill, 35, was in seat 24a, next to an emergency exit, when the holiday jet slewed off the runway at Phuket airport and burst into flames, killing 88 people on Saturday.
He was alongside fellow UK traveller Ashley Scott Harrow and managed to haul him clear. Ashley, 27, of Craigavon, Northern Ireland, escaped with cuts and burns.
Then Peter forced his way back through acrid, black smoke and rescued two Israelis — Vladimir Freylikham, 28, and his wife Isabella, 29.
Peter, from Manchester, and Ashley were two of at least five people from the UK among 42 people who survived when the One-Two-GO budget airline jet from Bangkok to Phuket crashed in a monsoon.
Thai Prime Minister Surayud Chulanont and Foreign Minister Nitya Pibulsonggram visited Peter on Monday in hospital, where he was being treated for burns and a head injury.
Nitya Pibulsonghram gave him flowers and fruit and said: "He is a hero. He pulled people out at his own risk. He is now doing pretty well, sitting up and smiling."
Peter was still too ill to speak at length about his ordeal.
He said: "I can't really remember. I might have got it open a crack (the emergency exit) but it was Scott (Ashley Scott) who smashed it open."
The other injured Brits were Bethan Jones, 22 — who had 90 per cent burns — Christopher Cooley and Benjamin Green, who is thought to have suffered only superficial wounds.
Alex Collins, 22, of Maesteg, South Wales — boyfriend of Bethan, from Porth, Rhondda — was believed dead.
The Sun quoted UK Ambassador to Thailand Quinton Quayle as saying, "We fear there are several British dead but we can't confirm the number and it may be some time before we can give a figure."
I'm Not A Complete Idiot Some Parts Of Me Are Missing!
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Posted 2007-09-18 13:14:37
Quote
A clear case of pilot error for choosing to land in unsafe weather conditions.....ie. conditions which, if they were to deteriorate, could exceed the aircraft's specification and the pilot not allowing enough margin to inititiate a "go-around" successfully before those specifications were exceeded.
British backpacker hailed as hero of Sunday's air crash
A British backpacker was hailed a hero of the Thailand air crash after dragging a pal from the blazing wreckage — then going back in to save other passengers
Well we don't yet know what caused the crash, or who's fault it is, but we can at least agree that what this guy did was heroic. Good on him
British backpacker hailed as hero of Sunday's air crash
A British backpacker was hailed a hero of the Thailand air crash after dragging a pal from the blazing wreckage — then going back in to save other passengers
Well we don't yet know what caused the crash, or who's fault it is, but we can at least agree that what this guy did was heroic. Good on him
Can I book the guy to sit next to me for my next trip ? ;-)
Well done, and hope life will treat him well for what he's done..........
... A clear case of pilot error for choosing to land in unsafe weather conditions.....ie. conditions which, if they were to deteriorate, could exceed the aircraft's specification and the pilot not allowing enough margin to inititiate a "go-around" successfully before those specifications were exceeded...
There's NO way you can know that and it is quite inappropriate to post such a thing. I've been rapped for speculating but this is too much.
TAWP, on 2007-09-18 12:40:22, said:
...So we can see that atleast 3 minutes past touchdown there is NO sign of any rescue trucks. That is NOT a good thing...
Not a 'good thing'? It's an absolute bloody disgrace. Heads should roll. I know 'This is Thailand' but there are limits.
Edit- although there is fairly strong wind in the video it doesn't appear to be raining hard. That said, however, the guys in the video are soaked which suggests it was raining heavily a few moments before.
Notice their animated re-enactment of the flightpath prior to the crash. It looks like a dangerous turn to the right towards the mountain was done. Could be wind and non-controlled, but it was done anyway. Hopefully a fully factual animation from the flightstats of the black box will be released later.
...So we can see that atleast 3 minutes past touchdown there is NO sign of any rescue trucks. That is NOT a good thing...
Not a 'good thing'? It's an absolute bloody disgrace. Heads should roll. I know 'This is Thailand' but there are limits.
To be fair, was this a declared emergency landing? I don't recall any reference to that. If not, the tower would have to notify the emergency services, they wouldn't be standing by on the runway.
...So we can see that atleast 3 minutes past touchdown there is NO sign of any rescue trucks. That is NOT a good thing...
Not a 'good thing'? It's an absolute bloody disgrace. Heads should roll. I know 'This is Thailand' but there are limits.
I was being diplomatic. But I agree. On both counts.
Thanks. I guessed you were. The more I read about this crash, the airline, and the possible cultural and human factor issues the more enraged I become. 'An accident waiting for a grid reference' someone said.
... A clear case of pilot error for choosing to land in unsafe weather conditions.....ie. conditions which, if they were to deteriorate, could exceed the aircraft's specification and the pilot not allowing enough margin to inititiate a "go-around" successfully before those specifications were exceeded...
There's NO way you can know that and it is quite inappropriate to post such a thing. I've been rapped for speculating but this is too much.
TAWP, on 2007-09-18 12:40:22, said:
...So we can see that atleast 3 minutes past touchdown there is NO sign of any rescue trucks. That is NOT a good thing...
Not a 'good thing'? It's an absolute bloody disgrace. Heads should roll. I know 'This is Thailand' but there are limits.
It does sound like a bit too long.But these are pretty strong words, and also a bit rascist.
How long is the average respond time in other countries? If u can back up your words with facts, I will respect your opinions, otherwise I know whom I think is a disgrace.
And you know what's even more disturbing? The guy in the video running across the runway after the airplane crashed. What if another airplane had landed right behind?
Pretty certain that the crash was the end of flights into Phuket.
And can also explain why the fire/rescue vehicles were not there immediately. The pattern had to be cleared before vehicles can safely cross active runways.
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threelegcowboy, on 2007-09-18 12:22:18, said:
