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#26
Platinum Member Posted 2007-10-22 05:50:31
Is there a photo of this hotel out there? Would be easier for people to remember a picture as people I know book last minute and often don't pay much attention to names. 
#27
Rare Species Member Eating Tough Leaves Posted 2007-10-22 06:12:29
The maid doesn't need the codes from management. Before the room is occupied, the maid, or whomever, cleans the safe's number keys. Then, they touch the side of their nose and smear the number keys with a touch of grease. Guest arrives. If the safe is used, there will be fingerprint marks on the number keys he used. As the code is only four digits, it doesn't take long to try all the combinations of a four digit number. A very old method for opening room safes and used in many countries. Well, even if one knows the 4 digits used for ANY combination, used by the guest (remember, there were 21 guests complaining they were robbed.....), it will take a long time to try all the combinations... They must have used another method, much simpler than that. I had a problem with a hotel room safe once; the manager came with an electronic device and opened it in 1 minute.... LaoPo #28
Shaved Member Posted 2007-10-22 08:43:39
4 digit combo (presuming its correct and the user didnt unlock with one code and relock with another, or smudge a key, or notice the greasyness)..
Would still be 4 to the power of 4 (or 256 permutations) versus the full 10 (keys) to the power of 4 or 10,000 combinations.. Plus you would need someone with a logical mind to analyse the 4 digits and create a system to cycle through the 256 permutations in a systematic way. Not the task of most hotel cleaning staff IMO. Now if you had only 3 keys smudged (indicating that they had used one digit twice) it cuts down the systematic trials but gets complex in devising the fastest trial route, again ask a hotel cleaner to devise the logical permutations of a 3 digits used 4 digit pin ?? And get that look like a puppy thats just been shown a card trick. #29
Member Posted 2007-10-22 08:54:21
I have stayed at two different hotels, when I was not able to get into the room safe. The first time the safe battery went dead and the night clerk came to the room with a small tool and in only a minute opened the safe. The second time I must of pushed the reset switch that is located on the inside of the door as I was closing the safe and this caused it to not open when I keyed in the combination. Again the hotel manager came up to the room with a small tool and opened the safe in only a minute.
I have seen at stores the same safes that are at hotels selling for about 3,000 baht. If I buy one of these safes at the store I could also get my own tool for my safe. I do not think this tool would be unique to a hotels room safes. Hotel room safes are a relativley new addition to Thai hotels. Cheap safes like these are only good security to keep honest people honest. #30
Senior Member Posted 2007-10-22 19:56:32
4 digit combo (presuming its correct and the user didnt unlock with one code and relock with another, or smudge a key, or notice the greasyness).. Would still be 4 to the power of 4 (or 256 permutations) versus the full 10 (keys) to the power of 4 or 10,000 combinations.. Plus you would need someone with a logical mind to analyse the 4 digits and create a system to cycle through the 256 permutations in a systematic way. Not the task of most hotel cleaning staff IMO. Now if you had only 3 keys smudged (indicating that they had used one digit twice) it cuts down the systematic trials but gets complex in devising the fastest trial route, again ask a hotel cleaner to devise the logical permutations of a 3 digits used 4 digit pin ?? And get that look like a puppy thats just been shown a card trick. Many words nearly as long as wheelbarrow and scientific calculations in the above post.. be careful not to hurt brain when reading!  = stay clear! 
#31
Platinum Member Posted 2007-10-22 21:34:36
A couple of other review sites:
http://www.sawadee.com/hotel/phuket/seasun/review.html http://www.asiarooms.com/thailand/phuket/s...el-reviews.html #32
Rare Species Member Eating Tough Leaves Posted 2007-10-22 23:00:20
A couple of other review sites: <a href="http://www.sawadee.com/hotel/phuket/seasun/review.html" target="_blank">http://www.sawadee.com/hotel/phuket/seasun/review.html</a> <a href="http://www.asiarooms.com/thailand/phuket/sea_sun_sand-hotel-reviews.html" target="_blank">http://www.asiarooms.com/thailand/phuket/s...el-reviews.html</a> Not one review mentioning thefts and some reviews are from October 2007 although the dates are not mentioned. That leaves the impression that the thefts started just recently... LaoPo #33
Platinum Member Posted 2007-10-23 02:41:20
A couple of other review sites: <a href="http://www.sawadee.com/hotel/phuket/seasun/review.html" target="_blank">http://www.sawadee.com/hotel/phuket/seasun/review.html</a> <a href="http://www.asiarooms.com/thailand/phuket/sea_sun_sand-hotel-reviews.html" target="_blank">http://www.asiarooms.com/thailand/phuket/s...el-reviews.html</a> Not one review mentioning thefts and some reviews are from October 2007 although the dates are not mentioned. That leaves the impression that the thefts started just recently... LaoPo Sounds like a cleaner got hold of a key and went on a rampage, rather than a pattern of thefts. Posting on these forums now will leave the hotel's reputation tarnished for years to come, and deservedly. #34
The Night Prowler Posted 2007-10-23 03:35:30
I'm sorry to read this as I stayed at sea sun sand in july and I enjoyed my stay.....apart from the gay waiter trying to hit on me and my mate.
 I can't comment on the safety boxes as I never use them. I carry ATM cards and withdraw money as I need it. lose out slightly with bank service charges but better than risking this type of scenario IMO. #35
Platinum Member Posted 2007-10-23 04:06:03
I'm waiting to hear the whole story on this, but it appears to me someone "trusted" in management was given the keys to the candy store, so to speak - and probably has relatives in the police department. I can't see how a maid would be able to do this so easily to so many rooms without some sort of "assistance".
If there are no satisfactory answers coming from SSS any time soon - it takes only a few seconds for me to cut them out of my (in-progress) reservations system - and another few minutes to fax them back a cancelled contract with reasons. Not a chance in hel_l will I send any future customer to a hotel which is not safe... or even "reputedly" not safe... Edited by onethailand, 2007-10-23 04:07:49. #36
The JesterBkk Posted 2007-10-23 04:35:00
4 digit combo (presuming its correct and the user didnt unlock with one code and relock with another, or smudge a key, or notice the greasyness).. Would still be 4 to the power of 4 (or 256 permutations) 
#37
Super Member Posted 2007-10-23 07:33:23
Sounds like a cleaner got hold of a key and went on a rampage, rather than a pattern of thefts. I think that there are a bunch of people involved here, and in on the scam. If it was one cleaner acting alone, the management / police would have taken action. Got me wondering about the safe though, and the "manager" function. If the thief used an electronic reset tool, would the safe retain the personal number entered by the guest? How could the guest open it if their unique code had been reset? The OP says that the surveillance tape shows that the maid spent about 15 minutes in the room.... would have been enough time to try the variations of the 4 digit combination. If the maid had easy access to the safe, she could have been in and out in a minute or two. #38
Kata Posted 2007-10-23 08:38:28
It's a mechanical reset tool. I bought one of these safes (for just 1,900 baht in Carrefor) and at the time I wondered if these keys were all the same, or different patterns. So all the maid needed was access to the mechanical key/tool (or a spare/copy). The idea of 'grease on the keys' seems unlikely to me.
#39
Platinum Member Posted 2007-10-23 09:24:04
4 digit combo (presuming its correct and the user didnt unlock with one code and relock with another, or smudge a key, or notice the greasyness).. Would still be 4 to the power of 4 (or 256 permutations) Quite right Jetset. For codes starting with 1 1234 1243 1324 1342 1423 1432 Similar for numbers starting with 2 , 3 , 4 Oh and Bump Naka. #40
Kata Posted 2007-10-23 09:49:18
My safe is 6 digit code and most hotels have 6 key code safes. Never come across 4 digit codes ??
So it's factorial 6, which is a much more time consuming 'crack code' time. Also, my safe has a second 'admin' access code. So most (??) digital safes have a user code (as set by guest), AND an admin access code for management use. I personally never use hotel in-room safes. I do lock the safe with nothing of vale in it (as a decoy) and find some sort of hidey hole. bathrooms are best. #41
Platinum Member Posted 2007-10-23 09:57:25
Most hotels I've been in have 4 digits.
Naka. #42
Rare Species Member Eating Tough Leaves Posted 2007-10-23 10:28:39
Most hotels I've been in have 4 digits. Naka. Seconded, and that's worldwide. Never seen a 6-digit hotel safe. LaoPo #43
Ex Member Posted 2007-10-23 13:34:17
A few things here:
Firstly, some one posted a picture of the Sun Sea Sand and frankly I don't recognize the hotel from that picture. Mrs CM plays kim there on occasion so I do know the hotel well. For the avoidance of doubt the SS&S is next to Chritine's massage joint on what is effectively Patong's second road. Secondly, the Phuket gazette did a good job this week of setting out on the front page a series of crime's against farangs so I believe they will be interested in this story is someone cares to tell them about it. Edited by chiang mai, 2007-10-23 14:01:39. #44
"Ruly truly!" Posted 2007-10-23 14:24:22
A few things here: Firstly, some one posted a picture of the Sun Sea Sand and frankly I don't recognize the hotel from that picture. Mrs CM plays kim there on occasion so I do know the hotel well. For the avoidance of doubt the SS&S is next to Chritine's massage joint on what is effectively Patong's second road. Secondly, the Phuket gazette did a good job this week of setting out on the front page a series of crime's against farangs so I believe they will be interested in this story is someone cares to tell them about it. It seems that Phuket Gazette is doing a good job reporting crimes - but from what I have heard around the Rawai area this week, many crimes are going unreported to police or the police are not following up on these crimes. I believe Phuket Gazette only knows about a fraction of crimes committed of late. Anybody who is a victim of crime on Phuket should be calling the Gazette as well as the police!!! #45
Ex Member Posted 2007-10-23 15:47:22
We took a drive around Rawi yesterday and during our three hours in the area we counted two policemen on a motorbike. This contrasts sharply with our drive along Beach and "second" road where we counted three separate groups of policemen, about eight per group, all stopping farangs for riding motorbikes without proper ID etc. It's all a question of priorities you see and the latter is a far more interesting and rewarding pastime than looking for criminals!
Edited by chiang mai, 2007-10-23 15:48:55. #46
Senior Member Posted 2007-10-23 16:21:33
Most hotels I've been in have 4 digits. Naka. The first time I used a safe like this the manager said I should choose a number between 4-8 digits - I chose 8. It is very unlikely that the thief used anything other than the master key to open these safes - I don't believe the combination cracking theory for a second. I have been stolen from 3 times to my knowledge. When using safes I now place my wallet in a plastic bag, that I tie too tightly to be reopened. I then write the amount of money in my wallet on the bag and sign it, so I know whether it's been opened or not. It's unlikely to deter a theft like this, but at least I'm always certain I'm not being ripped off - who can remember whether they've got 5000 or 6000 in their wallets? I can't. #47
Platinum Member Posted 2007-10-23 16:23:46
- who can remember whether they've got 5000 or 6000 in their wallets? I can't.
#48
The JesterBkk Posted 2007-10-23 17:10:31
My safe is 6 digit code and most hotels have 6 key code safes. Never come across 4 digit codes ?? So it's factorial 6, which is a much more time consuming 'crack code' time. 
#49
Advanced Member Posted 2007-10-23 17:56:28
4x3x2x1 = 24 is the number of possible combos if no digit is used twice.
#50
Senior Member Posted 2007-10-23 18:06:36
Yes R.O.S. does have a 6 digit code, but most of the other in-room safes I've seen are 4 digit.
As for the recommendation to use a safety deposit box. BAD IDEA. Front Desk Safety Deposit Boxes are easier for employee theft. Think about it. A copy of a key costs 25 baht, and they don't have to sneak into anyone's room, just wait until a quiet time to open and peruse the boxes. It's not the same ethics of most countries. |
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