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[bbcsamui]

Update

Due to the continued rain ... nothing is happening - no construction, no demolition. At least it is keeping the smell of the septic tanks away from the house (have got to find something positive about all of this water)

Although unfortunately the house we were going to rent acros the road is no longer available as the owner has decided to sell it rather than rent it. I offered to put a clause in the rental agreement to vacate with a months notice upon a sale, but he appears to prefer to leave it empty. His house, he can do what he likes.

So if you have a 3+ bedroom home near to BBC up for rent, please PM me the details.

In the meantime we have had to move Anna out of her room due to extra flooding (even if Squatter Dim did pay to fix the damaged wall and roof, it is unlikely we could get it done at the moment anyway). Makes our small home a bit moe cosy than we would like and I might have to get a smaller TV as the 42 inch TV in a smaller living room makes the kids go a bit crazy.

All I can say is I am glad we have no major flooding, unlike many others on Samui.

[koheesti]

bbcsamui, on 2007-11-06 21:27:05, said:

The youngest child is 20 but Mum still wants to have them at home in a tin shack and look after them while they go and work in their jobs at 4 Seasons Hotel etc. No money, but in the last 3 days thay have demolished their walls and replaced them again ... let alone the 3 bedrooms plus kitchen they constructed over the last 3 months. The children all have good jobs so they are not destitute.

If the kids have good jobs with foreign companies like the Four Seasons it would be a shame if they lost those jobs due to customer complaints just because the kids have been brought up as poorly as the stories about the parents would suggest (what kind of people dump their raw sewage into the sea?). Imagine the hardship the family would face then. Just awful.

Speaking of the Four Seasons, I've been thinking of checking out their buffet or maybe even staying there a night or two when the weather clears a bit. Any idea what this 20-yr old does there?

Edited by koheesti, 2007-11-08 10:55:43.

[mattias33]

Quote

So if you have a 3+ bedroom home near to BBC up for rent, please PM me the details.

You could go to blessing resort and have a chat with Nok. She and her husband owns some houses in that area, and also some townhouses in ban rak village. I know that they are moving out of their own house near bbc around new year, maybe that comes for rent. Anyway she is worth having a chat with because they are always pretty good in prices and there houses are always well mantained.

[bbcsamui]

koheesti, on 2007-11-08 10:54:56, said:

If the kids have good jobs with foreign companies like the Four Seasons it would be a shame if they lost those jobs due to customer complaints just because the kids have been brought up as poorly as the stories about the parents would suggest (what kind of people dump their raw sewage into the sea?). Imagine the hardship the family would face then. Just awful.

Speaking of the Four Seasons, I've been thinking of checking out their buffet or maybe even staying there a night or two when the weather clears a bit. Any idea what this 20-yr old does there?

I certainly would not like to see the sons lose their job because of this. The older one Ng is a nice guy, always polite and helpful over the years ... and I believe genuinely so. He has not been seen much around lately and I feel it is because he is shy about the situation. He told me he was working in the mail room at four seasons and I believe his brother is a porter or something like that - helping drive buggies etc.

Also, I feel it should be taken in perspective that the mother brought up 4 kids without a father and they are now all doing quite well - she has done a great job there. I think the issue is that they just did not think it through properly when they started constructing their larger house and were encouraged by Papa (who is the one that does most of the yelling at me to go away) and other external family members and then once it was pointed out to them, they had gone too far and therefore to back down would have been seen as loss of face. It is a pity, because now that it has reached the authorities there is more loss of face and also after the tirade of abuse and nastiness there is no way I am intending to back down totally - I believe there is room for them to have a sidewalk bar, but there needs to be removal of the large house and cleaning up of the beach.



I am sure there will be a compromise, but it has to be more than just moving back 50cm from our boundary as they have done so far.

[Tony121]

They must of known what they were doing was wrong, i presume they got planning permission for there new house and know the laws , if they wanted beach land so much they shouldn't have sold it, and are most probably quite jealous of you as beachland prices have gone through the roof in the last few years.
I hope the whole lot get's taken down they don't deserve this land, and if they get to keep the shacks it will only make more people think they can do the same.
What you have had to do and progress to date just shows the people in power don't care much of the interest of the island just the interest of the locals it's a shame.

Good luck & keep us updated

[bbcsamui]

Tony121, on 2007-11-08 21:37:09, said:

They must of known what they were doing was wrong, i presume they got planning permission for there new house and know the laws , if they wanted beach land so much they shouldn't have sold it, and are most probably quite jealous of you as beachland prices have gone through the roof in the last few years.
I hope the whole lot get's taken down they don't deserve this land, and if they get to keep the shacks it will only make more people think they can do the same.
What you have had to do and progress to date just shows the people in power don't care much of the interest of the island just the interest of the locals it's a shame.

Good luck & keep us updated

They obviously don't think they are doing anything wrong and are confident they are not going to have to move as today in the sunshine they are plastering up the wall they they have just constructed outside the 50cm from our boundary - but still encroaching on the kings land and still stealing road side etc.



and just throwing all of the rubbish on the beach...



I had to go away for a couple of hours as I was so angry with their arrogance and was potentially going to do something silly.

I post regular updates and more photos on my website if you want to have a look at more...
Progress on Bangrak squatters

The Tessaban need to come soon please....

[sbk]

Have you tried emailing some of the concerned authorities with your photos directly? If the local govt won't take action, perhaps they just need a little nudge in the right direction by the proper authorities.

land development: cit_1@ ldd.go.th

Pollution control dept complaints hotlline: www.pcd.go.th/Info_serv/Hotline/default.cfm Tel. 66 2298 2000
Fax. 66 2298 2002 or e-petition@ pcd.go.th

email : info@crownproperty. com Tel : 02-687-3379-82

[ClaudeFeller]

BBCSamui,
You know J&P Supermart/Postoffice in Bangrak?
The owners of this building are living behind, Pee Poum and Pee Ran, they dont run the shop anymore.
Ms. Pee Poum is member of the Samui Meermaid group, they clean the beach regulary.
She is a local from Bangrak, her english is very good and she maybe can help you out.
Say "Hello from Claude" when you go to see her.

[beamer]

BBC Im so sorry to hear of this situation !

I think i met u a couple of years ago when having dinner at your place !

I would happily let you stay at my villa with your kids till things are sorted out ! But I bought at Coco palm villlas ( A rite mess should have been completed 2 years ago I wont go into details here)

Samui since this was going to be my little paradise to get away from Hong Kong for long weekends !

I hope you can get things sorted out !

Living in Hong Kong may not be paradise but it sure has a good legal system and developers finish thier projects on time

Hang in there you have a lovely place on the beach !!!

[Tony121]

Is there a an office that is meant to look after crown land in bkk ?
might be worth looking into

[bbcsamui]

Tony121, on 2007-11-11 01:04:26, said:

Is there a an office that is meant to look after crown land in bkk ?
might be worth looking into

Because of all of the positive response from Thai Visa people we now have a long list of numbers and emails for various Government departments - thanks for that (if you have some more keep sending them through though as we might be here a while).

I am getting a summary letter done in Thai that clearly states the problems, illegalities etc and shows some photos. Once it is complete, it will be on the website and emailed and faxed around Thailand ... plus possibly put on a large sign next to the illegal dwelling (the sign will be on our land of course).

11 November update...

Well woke up at 7am today hoping to have a bit of a sleep in ... but not to be

Beautiful day outside but the smell was very bad and when we looked out the window we could see them dumping their sewerage onto the beach. I asked why they were doing it that way and they said because every time they try to connect it to their tanks on the beach, I take photos ... so I took a photo of that...



Well they were right ... later in the day they were trying to pipe the waste away and so I took a photo. Papa was overseeing it again and called me a crazy man ("ee-baa") ... and he is probably right as it is driving me nuts.

They also started getting ready to do some more plastering inside the dwelling.

This is not the action of someone intending to go soon.



More info here...
Progress 11 Nov 2007

I might not have any updates for a day or so as my wife and some of the locals in the restaurant are telling me I should just relax and get away from it for a while and let the process take its course. At the moment, I am standing and looking and watching and thinking about it all of the time... so tomorrow when the kids are at school, we will go to the other side of the Island. (I can now see how obsessions can get to people)

[Mark Wolfe]

TO BBCSAMUI:

You say that you would not want the sons to lose their jobs over this...why not? If they are not part of the solution, they are part of the problem. Within the law, the gloves must come off.

There are a number of things that baffle me (even though I have lived in Asia for 22 years) about this situation.
I have a few questions, but I will hold them for now.

For me, the most unreal thing is the abject lack of concern for esthetics.
I realize that most Southeast Asian people have a different concept of pollution than Westerners. Throwing rubbish around, not cleaning up after construction and so on is the norm here, to varying degrees, but humans generally don't foul their own nests.
If you smell the effluent, they must too. If the beach is an eyesore to you it must be to them as well.
Sorry to say, but these people are uncivilized.
Moreover, what would compel someone to continue creating a visual disaster area (aside from the waste issue) when they know full well that they are creating disharmony? What kind of culture is this?
You imply that these people are not mentally ill or criminally insane, so what sort of folk are we dealing with here?
I hope you have full success evicting them from the land and that they have to pay for the restoration of the property even (and hopefully) if it means they have to bankrupt themselves to do it.

As a journalist, I would also recommend you work up a press package for distribution to every outlet you can think of, particularly those who would be embarrassed by the portrail of the "Land of smiles," or who would feel that this situation brought to the attention of the public could damage the reputation of the island as a beautiful tourist site. Your pressure alone isn't as weighty as that of the Tourism Bureau and the like, for example.

PM me if you need guidance on how to do this.

M

[ClaudeFeller]

bbcsamui, on 2007-11-11 15:02:06, said:

Well they were right ... later in the day they were trying to pipe the waste away and so I took a photo. Papa was overseeing it again and called me a crazy man ("ee-baa") ... and he is probably right as it is driving me nuts.

Dont you let any Thai call you "ee-baa" - it is time for this hillbilly to show you some respect. Unfortunatley those kind of people understand only one kind of arguments: Pure violence.

[highdiver]

ClaudeFeller, on 2007-11-12 19:26:26, said:

bbcsamui, on 2007-11-11 15:02:06, said:

Well they were right ... later in the day they were trying to pipe the waste away and so I took a photo. Papa was overseeing it again and called me a crazy man ("ee-baa") ... and he is probably right as it is driving me nuts.

Dont you let any Thai call you "ee-baa" - it is time for this hillbilly to show you some respect. Unfortunatley those kind of people understand only one kind of arguments: Pure violence.

on the contrary Claud. resorting to violence is not an option!!!
Thailand is a class system and poorer people dont f..k around with rich people.
if you discuss this isuue with them or confront them then you are stating that you accept that they are in your social status.
This isuue has to be taken care of by Lawyers acting on behalf of the rich man.
As SBK pointed out there are various Agencies with online contats who will take action if they are notified.
another member has sugested getting the press to do an article.
you can create many problems for them with out them knowing that you are behind it.

if approcahed you should say like the rich people do...I dont know and i dont understand.. my lawyer takes care of those matters.

[bbcsamui]

Mark Wolfe, on 2007-11-12 10:55:23, said:

TO BBCSAMUI:

You say that you would not want the sons to lose their jobs over this...why not? If they are not part of the solution, they are part of the problem. Within the law, the gloves must come off.

There are a number of things that baffle me (even though I have lived in Asia for 22 years) about this situation.
I have a few questions, but I will hold them for now.

For me, the most unreal thing is the abject lack of concern for esthetics.
I realize that most Southeast Asian people have a different concept of pollution than Westerners. Throwing rubbish around, not cleaning up after construction and so on is the norm here, to varying degrees, but humans generally don't foul their own nests.
If you smell the effluent, they must too. If the beach is an eyesore to you it must be to them as well.
Sorry to say, but these people are uncivilized.
Moreover, what would compel someone to continue creating a visual disaster area (aside from the waste issue) when they know full well that they are creating disharmony? What kind of culture is this?
You imply that these people are not mentally ill or criminally insane, so what sort of folk are we dealing with here?
I hope you have full success evicting them from the land and that they have to pay for the restoration of the property even (and hopefully) if it means they have to bankrupt themselves to do it.

As a journalist, I would also recommend you work up a press package for distribution to every outlet you can think of, particularly those who would be embarrassed by the portrail of the "Land of smiles," or who would feel that this situation brought to the attention of the public could damage the reputation of the island as a beautiful tourist site. Your pressure alone isn't as weighty as that of the Tourism Bureau and the like, for example.

PM me if you need guidance on how to do this.

M

Mark Wolfe

I too have had the very same questions and thoughts etc, but one thing that keeps sticking in my mind is "don't lower myself to their level". Even though it has been going on for so long and is making me extremely angry, I have tried to believe that logic and law will prevail and if I can resist getting too dirty then it will have better long term ramifications for all.



I just want them to go and live on their own land, to continue to earn money to have a good life and hopefully look back and think that they were fortunate to live on such a nice beach with some good neighbours and manage to save some money to finish school and build their house. I don’t want the boys to lose their jobs and potentially ruin their careers at an early stage as it could push them over the edge. I want to live in Samui and not have to have a body guard following me around.



It has been an emotional roller coaster ride for 6 years and the last 24 hours are no exception … yesterday I was ready to call the GM of four seasons as we were getting threatening gestures, but then today we had the Poo Yai Ban and the Tessaban come around and take our side… and then we had some more threatening gestures.



I think that a compromise brokered by the local Poo Yai ban and the Tessaban has been reached today – but will not truly believe it until I see it carried out. The compromise is:

• The squatters have to demolish all of the living quarters on the roadside and on the beach;

• They must remove all of the concrete structures, poles, steel work, sewerage tanks etc;

• They can keep the small sala bar which is located on the roadside (and hence Tessaban land as opposed to Crown land). I am not sure about toilet facilities, but it was clear that they were not allowed to put anything on the beach itself;

• We will build (at our own cost) new steps down to the beach, some garden / landscaping and seating that anyone can use;

To me this is a very good compromise because I honestly feel that if it is done well, then a Thai style sala drink and ice cream bar right beside the gates to Big Buddha will be a good little money earner. If it is clean and inviting then there will be many people wanting to stop for a drink and look at the view. My estimates are that it could earn as much as THB10,000 a day if done properly - not a bad living for the family.



This deal sounds great but it was negotiated without the squatters being present so I am sure they will not be happy with it.



More information can be found here:12 November progress report

We are feeling slightly more positive today, but we also know that sometimes that is when we are most vulnerable and we might be hit by something else tomorrow (so no celebrations just a dinner offsite away from the squatters to try and relax a bit). Its just like a soap opera that keeps going on every day ...

[ThaidleHands]

I'm not proposing this as a serious solution, but the mental image of those shacks being razed by a long loop of cable pulled by a tugboat is just too compelling...

Good luck to the OP on a speedy and satisfactory solution.

[Tony121]

Good to hear some progress is being made, sounds like your stress level must be pretty high, at least they have demolished some of there property and sounds like there will be more to come the best thing now is to stay out of there sight let them think you are happy with what they have done & let your lawyers and tessaban do the rest just think of the cost for them,

[Rooo]

I have this funny feeling, that they had this intentions all along. Sell you their beach land then get free land next door.

[highdiver]

good luck and well done for holding on.
the solution is approved by the Tae Saban and the Poo yai Ban is very good as if they dont do as instructed the poo yai ban will loose face.

[ClaudeFeller]

This compromise seems to be the right step for you - wish you good luck for the future.
But I want to see the law that is permitting those crap people to use public land for business matters...
And I have the feeling that Tessaban doesnt want to enforce the law because just a farang is concerned.

Last not least you will have to clean up the whole rubbish and demolished construction.

I think the war is not over yet! You might better give some tea money for the local police...

[Mark Wolfe]

I am still curious as to the root cause of this.
What could compel a family to be so utterly contemptuous of others? Is it racism? They clearly seem to think that they are better than the foreigners living next door, can do anything they want regardless of what the "aliens" think or feel and can dump crap on the beach with total disregard to anyone (seemingly even their own -- I assume that they think the beach is not a place that Thai people would want to be near and is only a opening to the "big toilet" of the ocean).
If they actually had title to the land I could see a bit of their point of view, but the fact that they are wholly illegal, well, what can you make of this?
Personally, I would not compromise on anything. I would not want them to make any money out of any structure there on land that is not theirs. It would be a matter of principle to teach these bumpkins the rule of law.
And I am sorry, but the children are not to be spared. Have they made any effort, even intimated, that they thought that what was going on was not only illegal, but morally wrong?
Listen, you lie down with dogs -- you get up with fleas....
M

[GetBackJoJo]

"the Poo yai Ban is very good as if they dont do as instructed the poo yai ban will loose face."

Thats a good point. I have been reading the latest developments thinking.... 'Poo Yai Bann, Tesaban, whatever! Talk is cheap.'. Now the face issue comes into play and thinking about it, the Poo Yai Ban will not tolorate loosing face and the squaters would surley not encourage such loss of face by ignoring his demands, would they?

Face. Cripes how pathetic i have alwyas found it. I live in a village OBSESSED by face and find myself going out of my way to act a complete plonker at times, just to stick two fingers up to the whole face thing. However it does come in usefull once in a while and this may be one of those instances.

That said.... if these squaters are to save face themselves, they will not honour the Poo Yai Ban's demands immediatley - that would make them look way to subservant. They will honour his instruction, but only in a month or two, probably. You think?

Anyway. Good luck Mark. I used to come to your place a couple of times a week with either the Mrs, or Grahame ( Grahame the raving loony drunk). I always found you a decent chap, yet a misserable bloody swine and now i know why.... those hicks next door fueld your frown that i was always so puzzled by, considering you live on a beach and have a bloody huge boat.

I hope you win. That said, i also hope they get to keep there little bar. Its harmless enough. They dont deserve it but hey... why the heck not. Its only a small bar. They can stick the godforsaken house right up there backside though and i hope with a passion that your lovely restraunt will have the peace and quiet that it deserves, once there awfull shack has been demolished.

It realy does sound like a major stress you have been through with these ignorant animals.

Good luck.

[ClaudeFeller]

The "loosing face" story is not important if it is about money! If the squatters already shout at you they lost their face already, they will not care about this.
IMHO bbcsamui should visit the Poo Yai Baan regulary, otherwise everybody will forget everything.

[John 1]

Bbc Samui,

I did post a warning but looks like it's been deleted, so will try again and tone it down. The point is you appear to have won but from now watch you back you should understand life is short, enough said.

[koheesti]

ThaidleHands, on 2007-11-12 21:50:47, said:

I'm not proposing this as a serious solution, but the mental image of those shacks being razed by a long loop of cable pulled by a tugboat is just too compelling...

I had the same mental image. But I wasn't thinking tugboat. I was thinking ferry. Then I saw the ferry get torn in half because it wasn't as structurally sound as the shacks. But a tugboat would do.