153 replies to this topic
Posted 2007-12-02 23:36:10
 'nuff said, on 2007-12-02 16:56:26, said:
Sorry ding, dual pricing occurs in many places in the USA. When I lived in Virginia, the county park was FREE for locals, visitors paid $7 dollars per car. Same in Pennsylvania. Locals pay $20 for a hunting license. Out of state $110, over 5 times the price. All PA state parks have a low price or free to residents and much higher fees for tourists. If you work for Walmart, you get a discount and first choice on sale items. No one seems upset about the fairness of these things in the USA. Different people are treated differently.
All the people complaining about dual pricing going on in Thailand should get out and see the world a bit and realize that it goes on everywhere. Considering all the other things that are very cheap and reasonable in Thailand, it seems silly to complain about this.
I see nothing wrong with Thai citizens paying a lower price than non-Thais.
'nuff said
Nuffy, you miss the point here. In the above US based examples, fees are based solely on residency. You show a drivers license which demonstrates residency and you don't pay the entrance fee. Same applies to other fees, including State college tuitions. And nothing prevents one from establishing residency in a State.
In Thailand, the implementation of the dual pricing fees are based upon things such as race and nationality. Perhaps I am not as well traveled as you, but I have not typically seen dual pricing elsewhere where the implementation of that policy is based upon such standards. And comparing it to employee discounts is absolutely ridiculous.
As for the other ridiculous posting by Sunrise"
Quote Oh, the terrible plight of the caucasian man being visciously discriminated against in every corner of the world! Woe is us! Let's all hold hands and sing "We shall overcome"!
These are complaints of a mildly irritating yet discriminating act in a very specific location of the globe about an equally specific government policy. You might want to get some professional counseling about those choral voices you are hearing in your head.
Posted 2007-12-02 23:37:07
sunrise07, on 2007-12-02 22:54:28, said: Just to repeat, never, ever is race mentioned in any entrance requirements; citizenship status is. Do citizens of a country have rights and priveleges non-citizens don't have? Around the world, yes!
good comment
Posted 2007-12-02 23:38:10
sunrise07, on 2007-12-02 22:54:28, said: Just to repeat, never, ever is race mentioned in any entrance requirements; citizenship status is. Do citizens of a country have rights and priveleges non-citizens don't have? Around the world, yes!
you may be correct, to me the point is WHO is paying the bills to maintain these parks. i cannot see the income tax structure of Thailand spending a significant portion of it's revenue on it's park system anywhere near the cost they want to charge foreigners. and that is NOT fair pricing. Thailand just does not want to take care of THESE types of responsibility, WITH THEIR MONEY.
Posted 2007-12-03 01:00:53
Nothing is fare in life. Why would anyone expect fairness in Thailand? Thais can do whatever they want. It's their country, their laws, and their tactics. If you don't like it, then go elsewhere! The world is a big place.
Posted 2007-12-03 01:32:30
The bottom line for me is that it is far cheaper to visit a Thai national park than a US national park for my family. Visited Yosemite last week and it was nice, but I'd much rather be in Thailand. In either case, National Park entrance fees are not a major part of anyone's budget!
Posted 2007-12-03 01:35:17
I hope that the tourists stop paying all theese rediculous costs (yeea right "oh so cheap"), that would make them think about it. I agree completly with some of you and when I have the chance I will charge thaipeople 20 times as much. They think it's okay I will do the same to them. Anfortunaly it is the tourist and government people that think this is okay as I understand. Like Koh Samui people, there would be no problem to charge almost anyone there 20 times more since they all do it there to us as farangs. In other parts and in villages you pay as the natives and they don't understand why you should pay more. Sorry about my temper but all this really piss me off. Next time I visit something I will cover myself head to toe and use a shirt around my face and a hat -look like a native with bad throut...(how do you spell that ...neck.)
Edited by MichaelShort, 2007-12-03 01:37:09.
Posted 2007-12-03 02:36:08
I always find it amaizing to see the protectors of all that is thai - but obviously wrong - come crawling out of their little holes. A pathetic bunch - would definately do well in UK councils. They are easily recognisable by their appearance - usually short (having short man syndrome), bald, and with bad dental hygene. However, they adopt the most ridiculous contentious view points - it is a sort of psycholical reaction to having bad teeth, or like standing on a box to give them stature. They know who they are!!
Posted 2007-12-03 06:51:38
p1p, on 2007-11-29 08:31:21, said: seri thai, on 2007-11-29 07:21:20, said: The discrimination is not on race but nationality so its natioalist, not racist.
I fear you are wrong with your assessment here. I tried to enter a park with a group of friends from Malaysia and Hong Kong. They were all charged Thai rate despite not understanding or speaking a word of Thai. The man in the booth tried to charge myself and my (half) Thai children, who have Thai citizenship, the full Farang rate.
When asked about this, the guy in charge said they regarded Asians as Thai, Farangs were Farang even when they had Thai ID. We only succeeded in getting in, all of us paying Thai admission, after a long discussion and calling his boss.
The discrimination is based on appearance, (I don't like your face,) not nationality.
sriracha john, on 2007-11-30 11:10:08, said: It's not in the rules per say, it's in the implementation of the rules at the entrance gate level.
The employees, who are the direct representatives of the government, apply the racist pricing policy on all-too-frequent basis to the point it's discrimination on a government institutional level. sunrise07, on 2007-12-02 22:54:28, said: Just to repeat, never, ever is race mentioned in any entrance requirements; citizenship status is. Do citizens of a country have rights and priveleges non-citizens don't have? Around the world, yes!
Just to repeat, see the above.
Posted 2007-12-03 09:36:48
sunrise07, on 2007-12-02 22:54:28, said: Just to repeat, never, ever is race mentioned in any entrance requirements; citizenship status is. Do citizens of a country have rights and priveleges non-citizens don't have? Around the world, yes!
take Guantanamo Bay for a start....
Posted 2007-12-03 09:42:46
pointofview, on 2007-12-03 04:36:08, said: I always find it amaizing to see the protectors of all that is thai - but obviously wrong - come crawling out of their little holes. A pathetic bunch - would definately do well in UK councils. They are easily recognisable by their appearance - usually short (having short man syndrome), bald, and with bad dental hygene. However, they adopt the most ridiculous contentious view points - it is a sort of psycholical reaction to having bad teeth, or like standing on a box to give them stature. They know who they are!!
Can we see a picture of the handsome you?
j0hnsmith
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Posted 2007-12-03 10:29:27
Khao Prataew (Khao Phra Thaeo) National Park in Phuket is not on the list as either group 1, 2 or 3 and as far as I'm aware is not part of Sirinat National Park (it has a different name after all) so that means you don't have to pay to go there? Is that correct, can anyone confirm?
I bet those who go there today are being charged to get in.
Posted 2007-12-03 10:51:43
j0hnsmith, on 2007-12-03 10:29:27, said: Khao Prataew (Khao Phra Thaeo) National Park in Phuket is not on the list as either group 1, 2 or 3 and as far as I'm aware is not part of Sirinat National Park (it has a different name after all) so that means you don't have to pay to go there? Is that correct, can anyone confirm?
I bet those who go there today are being charged to get in.
It may not be officially classed as a "National Park" as it's not listed at all on the official NP government website.
Although I see it described as such on many travel websites, perhaps its official status is that it is not. Also, I did find this:
Quote The Khao Phra Thaeo Wildlife Sanctuary
Located in Thalang District, approximately 20 kilometers from Phuket City, the sanctuary covers an area of 13,925 rai (5,570 acres) of rich and fertile land which is home to several types of wild animals. The compound was declared a wildlife sanctuary in July 1969.
Of course, best bet would be to call them and ask their entrance fees.
btw, I noticed that the official NP website referenced to several times earlier on in this thread has since been modified to drop the information regarding entrance fees for people.... likely because it'll all be revised soon to reflect the new changes.
Edited by sriracha john, 2007-12-03 10:54:55.
Posted 2007-12-03 11:32:53
For Malaysia, Taman Negara or National Parks are RM10 for non-residents, and RM4 for residents, atleast the one I visited. Prices may vary. Doesn't matter if you are a foreigner or not, it matters if you pay taxes. To me, this is a reasonable system.
Posted 2007-12-03 12:54:00
exexpat, on 2007-12-03 11:32:53, said: For Malaysia, Taman Negara or National Parks are RM10 for non-residents, and RM4 for residents, atleast the one I visited. Prices may vary. Doesn't matter if you are a foreigner or not, it matters if you pay taxes. To me, this is a reasonable system.
I guess most people won't argue if the difference in entrance fees is reasonable (like in the above example: just 150% or 6 ringgit), AND if it is justifiable because you are a young child, senior citizen, or a taxpayer in that country/territory. But the current Thai practice of imposing multiple fees on foreigners is just out of greed and desire to 'milk foreigners as much as possible'...
Edited by 7, 2007-12-03 12:54:44.
Posted 2007-12-03 15:26:40
If you have paid taxes in Thailand then you will have a Tax ID card. I have had mine laminated and keep it in my wallet at all times. On 4 separate occasions upon presentation of the card I was able to pay the locals' rate.
Doesn't make it fair.
Posted 2007-12-03 20:21:00
thaiman, on 2007-12-03 01:00:53, said: It's their country, their laws, and their tactics. If you don't like it, then go elsewhere! The world is a big place.
There's always one. 
MichaelShort, on 2007-12-03 01:35:17, said: Next time I visit something I will cover myself head to toe and use a shirt around my face and a hat -look like a native with bad throut...(how do you spell that ...neck.)
Hmm,  I wonder if they check under a burka?
Posted 2007-12-03 21:33:07
dkstoney, on 2007-12-03 15:26:40, said: If you have paid taxes in Thailand then you will have a Tax ID card. I have had mine laminated and keep it in my wallet at all times. On 4 separate occasions upon presentation of the card I was able to pay the locals' rate.
Doesn't make it fair.
Maybe a little pedantic of me but this last year I have paid tax on 2 new motorbikes, a new pickup and not inconsiderable savings in Thailand.
All were unavoidable and I do not have a Tax ID card as I do not work.....but still pay tax!
Probably more tax than the average Thai I would guess.
Posted 2007-12-03 22:40:24
Meadish
Excellent post. It makes very interesting reading.
Sriracha John
Printed out the announcement now. I'm armed and dangerous!
Those of you who believe you will never be charged 400 or 200 Baht.
Trust me, I speak pretty good Thai, have a non-confrontational attitude, have a tax card, driver's licence and work permit. Usually I pay the local's price. But some parks are unbending in their enforcement of the foreigner fee. It depends on what the head of the National Park has instructed the rangers to do. The heads rotate every few years so things can change. Examples of Parks that would not lower the price under any circumstances were/are Pang Sida in 2002, Khun Tan in 2004, Hat Wanagorn this year, the list goes on.
Posted 2007-12-04 06:14:58
Briggsy, on 2007-12-03 22:40:24, said: Meadish
Excellent post. It makes very interesting reading.
Sriracha John
Printed out the announcement now. I'm armed and dangerous!
Those of you who believe you will never be charged 400 or 200 Baht.
Trust me, I speak pretty good Thai, have a non-confrontational attitude, have a tax card, driver's licence and work permit. Usually I pay the local's price. But some parks are unbending in their enforcement of the foreigner fee. It depends on what the head of the National Park has instructed the rangers to do. The heads rotate every few years so things can change. Examples of Parks that would not lower the price under any circumstances were/are Pang Sida in 2002, Khun Tan in 2004, Hat Wanagorn this year, the list goes on.
I have never payed farang price, maybe its all about student card.
Especially going with a car wit my student friends.
And my Thai is shit,
Last time me, my tgf and 2 western gals, we all got thai the price after my sluggish thai talk that i'm a student at Samet.
It all depends on the park ranger.
Sukhothai we all 3 (1 farang), drove in for free since there was nobody to stop us. Nothing new I guess.
Posted 2007-12-04 08:12:10
Support democracy - Vote with your Feet ! 
Posted 2007-12-04 08:13:05
Briggsy, on 2007-12-03 22:40:24, said: Meadish
Excellent post. It makes very interesting reading.
Sriracha John
Printed out the announcement now. I'm armed and dangerous!
Those of you who believe you will never be charged 400 or 200 Baht.
Trust me, I speak pretty good Thai, have a non-confrontational attitude, have a tax card, driver's licence and work permit. Usually I pay the local's price. But some parks are unbending in their enforcement of the foreigner fee. It depends on what the head of the National Park has instructed the rangers to do. The heads rotate every few years so things can change. Examples of Parks that would not lower the price under any circumstances were/are Pang Sida in 2002, Khun Tan in 2004, Hat Wanagorn this year, the list goes on.
Good post and to extend the list (I see we share Pang Sida)...
sriracha john, on 2006-06-17 08:50:57, said: jdinasia, on 2006-06-17 02:22:22, said:
I have never heard of a tax id and work permit in tandem NOT get someone in at local prices.
Just off the top of my head and to be quite specific from personal experiences, the following parks would accept ONLY Thai National ID cards for admission at Thai prices:
Pang Sida National Park
Huay Huat National Park
Khao Sam Roi Yot National Marine Park
Perhaps the same as the NP have grouped their parks into 1, 2, 3, and 4 categories.... we can compile a listing of parks into categories of which parks always enforce the official rules, which ones usually do, which ones do so sporadically, and which ones have gate keepers napping or absent.
Posted 2007-12-04 08:24:58
sriracha john, on 2007-12-04 08:13:05, said: Perhaps the same as the NP have grouped their parks into 1, 2, 3, and 4 categories.... we can compile a listing of parks into categories of which parks always enforce the official rules, which ones usually do, which ones do so sporadically, and which ones have gate keepers napping or absent.
Coincidentally, I was musing exactly the same thing the other day, a sort of "Cheap Charlie's National Park Database". Dangerous to post it on the net though, he he.
On an aside, they've thought through the list quite well in that the best parks are generally in the pricey category and the bottom category parks are often little beyond some scorched bamboo, at least the area around the visitor centre. However, fish around and you'll find some gems in the lower divisions! Salawin for 100 Baht. That's a bargain. Although when I camped there, they didn't bother charging me anyway!
Posted 2007-12-04 10:32:08
thaiman, on 2007-12-03 02:00:53, said: Nothing is fare in life. Why would anyone expect fairness in Thailand? Thais can do whatever they want. It's their country, their laws, and their tactics. If you don't like it, then go elsewhere! The world is a big place.
fully agree with this...
to all the whiners, start preparing your exodus back home or to other asian countries that you may think batter than thailand because the time has come the smiles in thailand have already turned sour towards us foreigners and it's not the thais fault but the bad amongst us ie. sex tourists, child molesters, fake teachers, druglords, mafias, scammers, etc. i can go on and on.
Posted 2007-12-04 11:31:06
thai_narak, on 2007-12-04 10:32:08, said: thaiman, on 2007-12-03 02:00:53, said: Nothing is fare in life. Why would anyone expect fairness in Thailand? Thais can do whatever they want. It's their country, their laws, and their tactics. If you don't like it, then go elsewhere! The world is a big place.
fully agree with this...
to all the whiners, start preparing your exodus back home or to other asian countries that you may think batter than thailand because the time has come the smiles in thailand have already turned sour towards us foreigners and it's not the thais fault but the bad amongst us ie. sex tourists, child molesters, fake teachers, druglords, mafias, scammers, etc. i can go on and on.
Whilst I agree to an extent that the 'bad' foreigners here have bought about some of the tightening of the rules against expats I can't agree that it's deserved in some way. A few 'bad eggs' are not an excuse to victimise everyone of the same ethnicity, thats playing the Nationalist card in the worst way.
The sex industry will not disappear if there are no westerners in Thailand. The vast majority of customers are homegrown Thai anyway.
There was a report recently, think I read it in the Bangkok Post, detailing child sex abuse in Thailand and that the problem is much as it is worldwide, that is people abusing others in their own family or close friends, ie Thai on Thai. Yes there is farang abuse, but a tiny percentage of the total.
Fake teachers, yes there are fake teachers and good luck in getting rid of them. The fact they are here has as much to do with lack of enforcement of current rules as anything else.
Drug lords, mafia and scammers are nearly all homegrown, some of them even sit in government!
Posted 2007-12-04 14:47:08
apetley, on 2007-12-04 12:31:06, said: thai_narak, on 2007-12-04 10:32:08, said: thaiman, on 2007-12-03 02:00:53, said: Nothing is fare in life. Why would anyone expect fairness in Thailand? Thais can do whatever they want. It's their country, their laws, and their tactics. If you don't like it, then go elsewhere! The world is a big place.
fully agree with this...
to all the whiners, start preparing your exodus back home or to other asian countries that you may think batter than thailand because the time has come the smiles in thailand have already turned sour towards us foreigners and it's not the thais fault but the bad amongst us ie. sex tourists, child molesters, fake teachers, druglords, mafias, scammers, etc. i can go on and on.
Whilst I agree to an extent that the 'bad' foreigners here have bought about some of the tightening of the rules against expats I can't agree that it's deserved in some way. A few 'bad eggs' are not an excuse to victimise everyone of the same ethnicity, thats playing the Nationalist card in the worst way.
The sex industry will not disappear if there are no westerners in Thailand. The vast majority of customers are homegrown Thai anyway.
There was a report recently, think I read it in the Bangkok Post, detailing child sex abuse in Thailand and that the problem is much as it is worldwide, that is people abusing others in their own family or close friends, ie Thai on Thai. Yes there is farang abuse, but a tiny percentage of the total.
Fake teachers, yes there are fake teachers and good luck in getting rid of them. The fact they are here has as much to do with lack of enforcement of current rules as anything else.
Drug lords, mafia and scammers are nearly all homegrown, some of them even sit in government!
you have a point but i'm talking 'bout whiners, complainers, and sort and that the law were tightened because of the bad amongst us so do not complain or better yet get out of thailand...
i'm not a whiner so i'll stay and accept the facts.
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