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[PadThaiGuy]

Thai system of apartheid.
Price discrimination is unfair and they know it.
Why else would operators use Thai numbers for entry fees for locals and ordinary numbers for tourists?
Pure and simple, it's deceitfull.

[NBT TV Phuket]

Interview - Preecha Chansiritanon, Deputy Director General, National Park, Wildlife & Plant Conservation Department,
To see or download mini-video, go to http://news.prd.go.t...p?newsid=215348
Our interview is with Preecha Chansiritanon, Deputy Director General, National Park, Wildlife & Plant Conservation Department, through an Interpreter, Peeranuch Dul-kul, who is also a Technical Forest official, during a meeting held at the Merlin Hotel Phuket yesterday on revising park fees and limiting numbers plus safety. As she explains with effect 1 December 2007, some fragile marine park fees go up, some smaller ones go down, but first talks about the meeting:
…….
Current fee: foreign child: 200 baht, adult 400 baht
Marine park: Thai child 40 baht, adult 80 baht;
Land park: Thai child 20 baht, adult 40 baht.
--
Contact: www.dnp.go.th/index_eng.asp

Interview for Andaman News TV11 (VHF dial) 8.30am + maybe FM90.5 Radio Thailand 6pm, both broadcast to Phang Nga, Krabi & Phuket provinces, FM108 Mazz Radio 7.30pm in Phuket & Phuket Cable TV Channel 1 at 7, 10.30 or 11pm, Wednesday 28 November 2007 & http://news.prd.go.th

-------

New national park fees are to take effect on 1st December.

Thailand’s new national park entry fees were announced on 22nd November and will take effect on 1st December 2007. The new fee regulation, which covers national parks nationwide, categorizes the parks into four lists, based on their numbers of visitors, natural resources, attractions, and facilities. The parks in the Andaman region are mostly rated in the 1st list. The entry fee for Surin and Similan national parks are 80 baht for Thai adults and 40 for Thai children, while foreign adults will be charged 400 baht with 200 baht for foreign children. The Lanta national park which covers Rog and Ngai islands and the Noparat Tara park plus the Phi Phi islands are listed on the no. 2 list with 40 baht and 20 baht fees for Thai adults and children, while foreign adults and children are still 400 and 200 baht.

MiniVDO should be on http://news.prd.go.t...p?newsid=215377 by this afternoon

from Andaman News TV11 (VHF dial) 8.30am + maybe FM90.5 Radio Thailand 6pm, both broadcast to Phang Nga, Krabi & Phuket provinces, FM108 Mazz Radio 7.30pm in Phuket & Phuket Cable TV Channel 1 at 7, 10.30 or 11pm, Thursday 29 November 2007 & http://news.prd.go.th

[sriracha john]

victor15, on 2007-11-29 09:01:29, said:

sriracha john, on 2007-11-29 08:26:59, said:

astral, on 2007-11-28 22:59:18, said:

It is a slap in the face for all Western tourists, as no doubt those
with Asian faces will still continue to get in at local rates.

seri thai, on 2007-11-29 07:21:20, said:

The discrimination is not on race but nationality so its nationalist, not racist.

The aspect of this issue described above is what makes it racist.
Simple to eliminate. Check everyone at the gate for a Thai National ID card. If no have, charge foreigner rate.

If you go in the parks with Thai's (family) and have Thai driving license, show it when you go in and 9 times out of ten you will get in at Thai prices, especially if you joke that you are falaang Lao and not falaang tourist.

Also at some parks the driver go's in free. That always upsets the person collecting the fees when the driver is a falaang.

As with many things in Thailand... different experiences in similar situations abound.
I've experienced no greater than perhaps a 20% success rate with what you describe in approximately 30 different National Parks all around the country.

It involves many different factors which can sometimes be as trivial as which employee is manning the gate on any particular day (successful at the same park one day and unsuccessful on another day) or even the mood of the same employee on any given day (successful at the same park one time and unsuccessful on another day with the same employee both times).

Irregardless of whether or not it's successful, it contradicts the official rules on the National Park's own website which dictate simply that there is a rate for Thais and a rate for Foreigners.

[Jai Dee]

A full range of the new fees and service charges can be found in English language at the National Park, Wildlife and Plant Conservation Department's website here.

[Old Man River]

For those of us living in Thailand it pisses us off (OK, it pisses me off if it doesn't piss you off). However, these national parks don't cater to us (the odd farang showing up with his or her family). They cater to the high volumes that tour buses bring and these tourists pay for the higher price in their all in one fee for their trips to Thailand. Hence, they never know they are paying a higher price than locals as they never see it and it would never cross their minds as their countries don't do this.

As long as the high volumes of tourists are willing to pay these higher fees, which when added to the cost of their trips are nominal, then the Thai government will continue to get away with it. The only end to this is if our countries began discriminating against foreigners in our national parks and this will never happen. So, I might as well get used to it.

[Mason45]

My policy in Thailand is that any pricing be it goods, services or national parks etc that I disagree with I do a U turn and never return especially the dual pricing system here. I believe everything comes under the buyers market category here and I as an individual deserve the right to pick and chose something that I consider to be fair. I can understand individuals pulling on the dual pricing system but here we're talking about a government supported department. In many foreign countries it would border on racism. In my estate there's many Thai Chinese with much better houses than mine, many own a Mercedes and a CRV and they are business men with multiple property and investment interests but they come under a different pricing category than me because of my race.

[sriracha john]

Jai Dee, on 2007-11-29 09:16:20, said:

A full range of the new fees and service charges can be found in English language at the National Park, Wildlife and Plant Conservation Department's website here.

If I'm not mistaken, Jai Dee, those are the old rates as there's no 400, 200, 100 baht and free sliding scale for Foreigners that the new rates reflect. They also report a stay of up to 7 days for one entrance fee and the new rates report 5 days.

Edited by sriracha john, 2007-11-29 09:45:39.

[Scott]

I've been to several parks over the 20+ years here in Thailand.  I haven't really experienced anything worth going back for and only go if I have friends visiting who might want to go.  

As for double pricing in other places, yes it exists, but it is far from across the board.  I had a Thai friend who came to the US with me.  He got a HUGE discount on a train ticket that took him anywhere in the region.  He cold get off whereever he wanted and simply rebook.  My ticket cost a fortune and everytime we stopped, I had to pay a rebooking fee.  

Same at a number of tourist attractions.  He showed his passport--reduced price.  My parents showed their ID (Over 60) senior discount.  I, on the other hand paid the full price.  By the way, please remember there is a standard fee and everything else is discounted.  

Here, you just never know.  I've been with an official outing, had my Work Permit, all documents and they refuse to budge--even had the boss think I should pay the difference.  It's not the price that bothers me, it's the inconvenience and being selected out in such an obvious way.  It's more embarassing than anything else.

[Mason45]

I had an instance last year in a restaurant on the Mekong River, we were charged Thai prices for the food and farang prices for the beer. They must've been watching us like hawks because my wife ate all the food and I drank all the beer. As I'm married my wife carrys our money and when she asked to settle the bill she realised that they'd helped themselves to a surcharge and she refused to pay the extra, after a good old Thai verbal stoush she told them it's the Thai price or nothing. After she showed her Thai ID showing her married farang family name and my Thai driving licence they relented but with a furious scowl and when the change was returned in the folder it was virtually thrown at her so I took the money and threw the folder back at the person who threw it at her and the cretin actually thought he was due a tip.

[dottie]

Mason45, on 2007-11-29 09:37:38, said:

My policy in Thailand is that any pricing be it goods, services or national parks etc that I disagree with I do a U turn and never return especially the dual pricing system here. I believe everything comes under the buyers market category here and I as an individual deserve the right to pick and chose something that I consider to be fair. I can understand individuals pulling on the dual pricing system but here we're talking about a government supported department. In many foreign countries it would border on racism. In my estate there's many Thai Chinese with much better houses than mine, many own a Mercedes and a CRV and they are business men with multiple property and investment interests but they come under a different pricing category than me because of my race.

True, and I must admit that I empathise with this comment when I see a very arrogant Thai person rolling up with driver and Mercedes ... but, as a proportion of the whole population, such people are just a minority.  Most Thais don't earn much and it would be a pity to price them out of a day out in the National Park.  

Dual pricing is present in other countries as some posters have mentioned.  While I don't have a problem with tourists having to pay more, I do have an issue if I have to pay the tourist rate when I work and pay tax in the country and speak the language.  

In Nepal, the VSO (similar to Peace Corps) volunteers also had to pay tourist rates at famous sites, even though they were volunteering in the country for more than 2 years at a time.  There was a huge battle by the VSO office to try to get dispensation which they did in the end, so I believe, but it wasn't easy.  I was a VSO in Bangladesh where there wasn't any such dual pricing system (and precious few sights to see anyway!), but it would have riled me if I'd been in Nepal trying to help their country and been charged the same as someone on a 2 week holiday.

I have actually only had one jobsworth who insisted on charging me foreign rate despite my Thai partner being there and me showing my tax card ... that was by the Bhumibol Dam by the way.  All other times, I've had no problems at all and the other day, at Wat Arun, the lady even said I could go in free without being asked (I'd just asked in Thai if my English friend was dressed appropriately).  Suppose it all depends on the mood of the person on the day, like so many things in life.

[bunta71]

Same B.S. goes on in the Philippines but not as prevelant. Last motorbike I sold when there was advertised "55,000 Pesos for foreigners...65,000 for Philippinos !!"  I agree with the former poster about charging Thais at least double for any service. It's a little power trip thing I have

[tartempion]

sriracha john, on 2006-06-17 08:50:57, said:

Quote

Dr. Adis Israngkura, an economist at Chiang Mai University and a consultant to Thailand's first and foremost "think tank" (Thailand Development Research Institute) conducted a research project for TDRI on this very topic and wrote the best paper, "Determining entrance fees to national parks: the case of Thailand" that I have ever encountered on the subject.

The paper, published in 2001, made the following recommendations:

1. Higher fees, for all, to the more popular parks with many facilities, which can subsidize the smaller parks with very few facilities.

2. Higher fees, for all, on long week-ends/holidays when parks tend to be heavily visited to help ease congestion and lessen environmental degradation, which will result in increased visitor satisfaction.

3. Annual memberships and lifetime memberships should be offered and available to all.

4. Both Thai and foreigners should pay the same entrance fee, but special services should be made available to the foreign visitor for additional higher fees, such as English-speaking tour/travel guides or English-language information booklets/maps. "The current policy unnecessarily jeopardizes the the image of the overall tourism industry."

5. Entrances fees should be exempted for the elderly, the handicapped, and children visiting on school trips.

I think when an expert, and Thai himself, recognizes it as a problem, it's VERY telling....




now if they could just start working on #4.... we'd see a drop in the number of National Park threads... smile.gif


thanks again, meadish.... thumbsup.gif

And an increase of foreign visitors like myself  

I hope the Thai authorities who made these new decisions read this forum:

I visited Everglades National Park: 1 car, 2 people for 5 days (in-out every day) 10 usd or 400 baht, ticket valid one week.
Fantastic infrastructure, clean, caring guards everywhere.

In Thaliand the only decent infrastructure I ever saw was in Kao Yai.
Score: USA 10, Thailand 01.

I dont think Doi Inthanon will see me that soon at B400....whilst at 100 I would.
The rubbish at most parks is not worth the effort.
Have you seen the shell cimetary in Krabi province for instance, what a shame.  

Edited by tartempion, 2007-11-29 13:45:28.

[Jai Dee]

sriracha john, on 2007-11-29 10:41:37, said:

Jai Dee, on 2007-11-29 09:16:20, said:

A full range of the new fees and service charges can be found in English language at the National Park, Wildlife and Plant Conservation Department's website here.

If I'm not mistaken, Jai Dee, those are the old rates as there's no 400, 200, 100 baht and free sliding scale for Foreigners that the new rates reflect. They also report a stay of up to 7 days for one entrance fee and the new rates report 5 days.

You may be right John... the website currently states 400 baht for foreign adults and 200 baht for foreign children at all national parks.

[meadish_sweetball]

The website information is indeed out of date.

[seri thai]

p1p, on 2007-11-29 08:31:21, said:

seri thai, on 2007-11-29 07:21:20, said:

The discrimination is not on race but nationality so its natioalist, not racist.

I fear you are wrong with your assessment here. I tried to enter a park with a group of friends from Malaysia and Hong Kong. They were all charged Thai rate despite not understanding or speaking a word of Thai. The man in the booth tried to charge myself and my (half) Thai children, who have Thai citizenship, the full Farang rate.
When asked about this, the guy in charge said they regarded Asians as Thai, Farangs were Farang even when they had Thai ID. We only succeeded in getting in, all of us paying Thai admission, after a long discussion and calling his boss.

The discrimination is based on appearance, (I don't like your face,) not nationality.

I appreciate I'm meandering off topic here but it's the usual falang rant!
Unfortunately Johnny No-Stars at the ticket booth has a limited education/travel opportunities and thai-centric world view passed down to him by those who know whats good for you. Theres a lot of em in the west too tho, so its not just educational opportunity!
Have you noticed how taxi drivers the world over share the same political views?
I had that Thaksin Shinawatra in the back of my cab the other day, told him what I thought, -shootings too good for 'em etc etc.
OK so discrimination is based on appearance, so what else is new.
and where doesn't this happen? I'm not leaving because of it. Not before Kristallnacht anyways.

[Johpa]

seri thai, on 2007-11-29 15:06:07, said:

I appreciate I'm meandering off topic here but it's the usual falang rant!
Unfortunately Johnny No-Stars at the ticket booth has a limited education/travel opportunities and thai-centric world view passed down to him by those who know whats good for you. Theres a lot of em in the west too tho, so its not just educational opportunity!
Have you noticed how taxi drivers the world over share the same political views?
I had that Thaksin Shinawatra in the back of my cab the other day, told him what I thought, -shootings too good for 'em etc etc.
OK so discrimination is based on appearance, so what else is new.
and where doesn't this happen? I'm not leaving because of it. Not before Kristallnacht anyways.

Not that I disagree totally upon the ""farang rant" aspect, but there really are not that many institutions in the more modern world that openly discriminate based upon race in the manner that the Thai elite does. Certainly at the individual level there is discrimination based upon looks and race, but it is rare outside the medieval countries in the Middle East to be so blatant at the corporate and government institutional levels.  And it is more a Sino-centric world view than a Tai-centric world view.  And although I have found many cabbies around the world to share certain personality traits, I have found their political views to be quite varied.

[sriracha john]

[quote name='Jai Dee' post='1677233' date='2007-11-29 13:56:42'][quote name='sriracha john' post='1676750' date='2007-11-29 10:41:37'][quote name='Jai Dee' post='1676714' date='2007-11-29 09:16:20']A full range of the new fees and service charges can be found in English language at the National Park, Wildlife and Plant Conservation Department's website [url="http://www.dnp.go.th/parkreserve/np_rate.asp?lg=2"]here[/url].[/quote]

If I'm not mistaken, Jai Dee, those are the old rates as there's no 400, 200, 100 baht and free sliding scale for Foreigners that the new rates reflect. They also report a stay of up to 7 days for one entrance fee and the new rates report 5 days.
[/quote]
You may be right John... the website currently states 400 baht for foreign adults and 200 baht for foreign children at all national parks.
[/quote]

[quote name='meadish_sweetball' post='1677327' date='2007-11-29 14:47:55']The website information is indeed out of date.[/quote]

That's reassuring.... especially as I used that link back on Post #17 to specifically highlight the "old" rules.

Although I would give them a break and not say it's "out of date" as the new rules don't come into effect until tomorrow...
at which time I'm sure they'll have all the new rates and rules up in place.

and also with the same probability, world peace and harmony will be fully implemented tomorrow, as well.



[quote]Johpa:
discrimination based upon looks and race to be so blatant at the government institutional levels.[/quote]

In regards to the National Parks, this is a crucial difference in Thailand and one that is particularly distasteful.

Edited by sriracha john, 2007-11-30 05:54:48.

[jumnien]

There is nothing in the entrance fees that references race in any fashion whatsoever.  It does address nationality, however.

[sriracha john]

It's not in the rules per say, it's in the implementation of the rules at the entrance gate level.

The employees, who are the direct representatives of the government, apply the racist pricing policy on all-too-frequent basis to the point it's discrimination on a government institutional level.

Edited by sriracha john, 2007-11-30 11:10:52.

[Ray1167]

get a thai driving license. its that simple . then you only pay the thai price to enter parks.

[sriracha john]

If only it was... *suggest reading the multiple posts that contradict that assessment*

[asiaworld]

Woneder, why nobody started on worldwide visa fees yet .. that'll be a good one ..

I want to enter Lao, why do i have to pay 35$, when all ASEAN guys, can get in for free ?!? RACIAL DISCRIMINATION !!!!!!!!!!!!!    Pure & simple
  Or even North Korea.. thats much more "fun" than any thai park

[jumnien]

Oh, the terrible plight of the caucasian man being visciously discriminated against in every corner of the world!  Woe is us!  Let's all hold hands and sing "We shall overcome"!

[meemiathai]

Please do not disturb when people are moaning.

[tartempion]

asiaworld, on 2007-11-30 22:48:41, said:

Woneder, why nobody started on worldwide visa fees yet .. that'll be a good one ..

I want to enter Lao, why do i have to pay 35$, when all ASEAN guys, can get in for free ?!? RACIAL DISCRIMINATION !!!!!!!!!!!!!    Pure & simple
  Or even North Korea.. thats much more "fun" than any thai park

Well, I live nearby Nong Khai and could visit Vientiane/Laos daily (and I don't need to do visa runs neither ), if it wasn't for the 1300/1500 baht.

I could buy some french wines or portugese porto.

But I don't and guess you don't know why?