1995 replies to this topic
Posted 2008-01-07 14:28:29
 DamianMavis, on 2008-01-07 02:32:32, said:
meom, on 2008-01-07 00:55:53, said: DamianMavis, on 2008-01-07 00:47:46, said: YA RIGHT. Hope your witness friend has the guts to say what really happened in a court of law, but I doubt this will turn out justly.
Damian
My bet is on the girl. If she's indeed pregnant from another guy she'll probably be coerced to testify against the dead canadian, putting all blame on him which will keep her & the cop out of prison. The police volunteer fund might even step in with a few donations for the future baby.
Stuff of movies I know so would be interesting to see the final outcome.
No, unless I read this incorrectly? This is a falang woman, not bloody likely to lie against her murdered falang husband, even if she did cheat. This isnt some isaan hooker that can be pressured by her countries gangster police.
Damian
Agreed. Whoever said Thailand is safe to travel to anymore. The amount of murders (including by cops) of foreigners in recent years is astounding. It was a shock a few years back when two australian backpackers were murdered in the jungle near Mae Hong Son, but the stuff that's going on these days is rather astounding. I know of two people beaten senseless into comas (one of who eventually died from his wounds) by gangsters running these illegal bars set up on the sidewalks of Sukumvit Road in BKK.
In the above story, my guess is the drunken cop copped a feel and the hubby got angry and gave him a punch.
Posted 2008-01-07 14:29:32
I would hope that the poor, misguided people who were celebrating how safe there are in Thailand on a General Topics thread in TV this past weekend find the time to read about what really goes on here. Exactly where are the 250,000 police officers when you need one? Everyone should take precautions and have contingency plans when they live abroad. Thailand is NOT a safe place. There is no clearinghouse in Thailand for accurate statistics pertaining to violent crime. In fact I think much of any statistics spewed out by the various ministries in this country are suspect.
Posted 2008-01-07 14:34:57
pippomusic, on 2008-01-07 14:20:59, said: And in USA? Awwwwww here I could write a novel about police and unjust violence!
Police is reflection of power, anywhere. And wherever men are legally endorsed to carry and USE guns, such kind of accidents happen. It is not Thailand. The guy is a farang, so maybe something will move. At least.
Carlo Giuliani, shot in the face by a police man in the G8 riots in north italy. The policeman has been released BECAUSE HE SHOT IN THE AIR, AND HIS BULLET BOUNCED ON A FLYING STONE!!! Not even in Thailand they would have such fantasy!
love
Pippo
Right, but you are only seeing what you think are similarities and not the differences. In the U.S., cop violence is a major domestic news story, and most obvious cases are tried and convicted. I am definitely not arguing that there are no problems in the U.S. with the police and judicial system, but they would never get away with murder in cold blood on a regular basis the way they do in LOS.
Posted 2008-01-07 14:40:38
pippomusic, on 2008-01-07 15:20:59, said: Yeah sure,
but please do not say things like "THIS IS THAILAND".
I come from Italy, and in my country Plocie KILL people quite often, and then construct any kind of obviously made-up defense. And judges, legal dooctors, all of them most of the times collude with the police.
In UK, if I don't go wrong, a brazilian guy has been shot in the head in the tube not long ago. And the responsibles? Have they been punished?
And in USA? Awwwwww here I could write a novel about police and unjust violence!
Police is reflection of power, anywhere. And wherever men are legally endorsed to carry and USE guns, such kind of accidents happen. It is not Thailand. The guy is a farang, so maybe something will move. At least.
Carlo Giuliani, shot in the face by a police man in the G8 riots in north italy. The policeman has been released BECAUSE HE SHOT IN THE AIR, AND HIS BULLET BOUNCED ON A FLYING STONE!!! Not even in Thailand they would have such fantasy!
love
Pippo
You do make very valid points but remember in the two Thai cases, Pai and Kanchanaburi we have a Thai policeman who was probably drinking shot a couple each over loss of face.
They meant to kill and they did this while off duty and not trying to prevent law breaking - yes the Menendez case in the UK meant an innocent was dead but it was police acting on orders who thought they were about to prevent a bomb being set offf in an atmosphere of fear and uncertainty just after another terrorist outrage.
I am not trying to defend the police in the UK or elsewhere but the Thai cases are qualitively different.
Posted 2008-01-07 14:42:49
The story was in TITV this morning. Their account is as follows:
A very brawney, hunskey Canadian was having physical battle with his farang wife in a Pai restaurant.
The policemen tried to intervene and the farang guy got angry and physical with the policeman for trying to interfere.
The policeman shot and killed the guy and also shot the farang wife who is now in hospital in CM.
Canadian embassy authorities are now involved and waiting to interview the farang wife.
well that's the TITV version of events.
Posted 2008-01-07 14:51:45
Quote The story was in TITV this morning. Their account is as follows:
A very brawney, hunskey Canadian was having physical battle with his farang wife in a Pai restaurant.
The policemen tried to intervene and the farang guy got angry and physical with the policeman for trying to interfere.
Totally implausible. As if it were true, this would mean that the policeman isn't entirely to blame which of course has already been proven by posters here to be incorrect.
Posted 2008-01-07 14:51:46
sonnyJ, on 2008-01-06 19:10:43, said: Rinrada what is your point here?
What about driving in Pakistan, Somalian free economy and the motorbikes of Viet Nam?
This is just jibberish, and please quote the source if you didn't go through all the trouble making it up.
We can travel all these countries if we know how to behave.
1,365 viewers reading this topic at 7-30 am ........thats the point.....
anyway gotta go to work...deepest Islington but safe at the moment apart from the usual low life and happy slappy tourists beaters...yeah. 
Posted 2008-01-07 14:56:10
Prakanong, on 2008-01-06 22:53:18, said: How far can an Embassy really go though - they can do the public thing as well as the quiet word that may have more influence but how much does it help?
I think the families of the Kanchanaburi couple and Kirsty Young were supported and even Welsh police helped with the Young case and probably know who did it but still murderers get away.
JONES !! Kirsty Jones - please quote the correct name to keep a case in the public spotlight 
Prakanong, on 2008-01-06 22:53:18, said: Then the Brit Embassy tried to have criticism of Thailand repressed I seem to recall saying it would hurt the tourist industry.
Absolute Rot! You're confusing cases - TAT requested speedy resolution of the Kanchanaburi, Samui, and Sukhothai murder cases because it would hurt tourism. In fact, they made statements to that effect even before the police had given official statements. The British Embassy would never allow a staff member to make such a statement - the person who did would be pulled back to UK and dismissed from the Foreign Service faster than their feet could touch the ground.
WISteve, on 2008-01-07 04:18:26, said: You never brandish a weapon in the hope it will cool off the parties involved; it only escalates matters.
~WISteve
Old western-countries saying "Don't pull a knife or gun unless you're willing to use it"
.... expats know that Thai's will do just that, but do tourists? And is it emphasised in guidebooks?
Jai Dee, on 2008-01-07 12:07:30, said: Del Pinto, 25, took a shot in the mouth, from which the bullet travelled through his shoulder, and another shot on the left side of his torso, while Reisig, 24, was shot on the left side of her torso.
The officer said Uthai was beaten to the ground by the couple. After managing to get up, Uthai pointed his service pistol to threaten away both foreigners, but Del Pinto tried to snatch the pistol from him. After a scuffle, shots were fired and the couple went down.
Source: The Nation - 07 January 2008
There's a distinct "men plaa" here - I don't have the exact statistic to hand, but assuming it's around 85-90% of the world is RIGHT-handed, during a struggle as described, you'd expect the wounds to be in the couple's right sides - strongest and most dextrous arms towards the threat = subconcious reaction during struggle - unless they were trained to fight with spear and shield, in which case the left side would be presented to the threat in order to keep the weapon hand out of the opponent's reach. Wounds to the left side could also indicate the farangs were turning AWAY FROM the cop when they were shot - again it's a subconcious action that in unrestricted space (e.g. not restricted by someone sitting to one side or the other) most people turn to their right (clockwise seen from above) espacially Northern Hemisphere residents (there's a science justification for it but I can't find it right now) - this would have presented their left sides to the cop.
Also, assuning a short-arris Thai cop and a lanky Canadian, just how did the cop shoot him in the mouth with the bullet travelling DOWNWARDS to his shoulder - it implies the Canadian was either bent forward from the waist in an aggressive attack stance / backing away in a highly respectful hands above head wai position, or the guy was on his knees with the cop standing "above him" when he fired. The blood spatter pattern would tell a GOOD forensics team the exact positions involved. Sadly, I understand the nearest one of those is in Australia.
Has anyone else picked up that once again it is a police SGT MAJOR - the highest non-commissioned rank? Kanchanaburi was also a Pol Sgt Maj, and I believe another farang killing in the last few years was also by one of that rank - can't remember the details though. Not sure of the significance in that, but maybe Sgt Maj's should be ordered to leave their guns in their offices when not on duty?
Gaz
Posted 2008-01-07 15:01:54
GuitarRoK, on 2008-01-07 15:15:03, said: As for my honest opinion of the case, let's take this at face value and leave judgement for a later time. If you farangs here were so high set on justice, why don't you do something about finding out the truth instead of judging here and now without any truth to back up your claims.
The way you guys make it is that the farang was innocent and the cop a killer.
Most farangs behave worse than animals in Thailand.
I sadly agree with you about Farang behvaiour. But I wouldnt say "most". Many for sure. There are also travelers who honesltly enjoy visiting your country, and benefit from its positive points. And also lots of honest people working or living here because with their pension they would be impoverished and undignified in their home countries. (Cost of living is rising in europe and usa, and working class is having a really hard time)
I live on early sukhumvit, and will change home because I am fed of seeing farangs with huge stomach drinking beer at 10am. And also fed ot having transvestites try to hook me all the time with more energy just because I am below 70 kilos. After a while though they know me, and I can say I have colourful friendly neighbours.
I see your point. In a way you read the up-down tone of these posts. Assuming that because we are in Thailand, the police man is a killer and the farang an innocet victim.
Someone died, and this is terrible. A woman is hurt, and ths is terrible too. Probably the policeman will not sleep peacefully for the rest of his life (total evilness exists only in the Pope speeches).
The fact is that most of us (farangs) believe that in our countries we live in democracies, just because we are called to vote on professional leechers each 4 or 5 years. Of course this is an illusion we love to believe. And since we are mostly farang on this forum, we actually write with an assumption. Many things are good in our countries. Some of us have welfare, some of us live in places which can be called almost democratic (especially north europeans and canadians). But still, we are all in the same shit like the thais. TV, advertisement, consume, is bringing our human side away. Worse, is making us ashame to be human. What we love about Thailand is the smile... something so cheap, yet easy to make available since we all have a mouth, but it lacks so much in our countries!
IF I may give you an advice, try to be less hateful, and accept other people weaknesses and partial blindness, in the hope that others do the same with you.
Besides that, no matter who's right or wrong, we all live in the same shit. Is the factory who built the gun, and th society which allows this to happen to be blamed. Not 3 human beings who happened to cross their ways at the wrong time.
love
Pippo
Edited by pippomusic, 2008-01-07 15:03:09.
Posted 2008-01-07 15:02:16
Please do not respond to offensive posts but use the report button, thanks.
Posts have been deleted, lets try to avoid offensive, inflammatory and abusive posts.
Posted 2008-01-07 15:08:02
QUOTE (Prakanong @ 2008-01-06 22:53:18)  How far can an Embassy really go though - they can do the public thing as well as the quiet word that may have more influence but how much does it help?
I think the families of the Kanchanaburi couple and Kirsty Young were supported and even Welsh police helped with the Young case and probably know who did it but still murderers get away.
JONES !! Kirsty Jones - please quote the correct name to keep a case in the public spotlight
QUOTE
Yes - I always get that bloody name confused and say Kirsty Young the Scottish newsreaders name - thanks for pointing it out.
As for the letter asking for the FCO not to mention bad news about Thailand I am sure there was a thread on it here somewhere.
I do know a little bit about the FCO as my best pal is a Deputy Ambassador (not in Asia) but we do not discuss details too much - without aying too much his views on Thailand are not that good
Posted 2008-01-07 15:09:43
pippomusic, on 2008-01-07 15:01:54, said: GuitarRoK, on 2008-01-07 15:15:03, said: As for my honest opinion of the case, let's take this at face value and leave judgement for a later time. If you farangs here were so high set on justice, why don't you do something about finding out the truth instead of judging here and now without any truth to back up your claims.
The way you guys make it is that the farang was innocent and the cop a killer.
Most farangs behave worse than animals in Thailand.
I sadly agree with you about Farang behvaiour. But I wouldnt say "most". Many for sure. There are also travelers who honesltly enjoy visiting your country, and benefit from its positive points. And also lots of honest people working or living here because with their pension they would be impoverished and undignified in their home countries. (Cost of living is rising in europe and usa, and working class is having a really hard time)
I live on early sukhumvit, and will change home because I am fed of seeing farangs with huge stomach drinking beer at 10am. And also fed ot having transvestites try to hook me all the time with more energy just because I am below 70 kilos. After a while though they know me, and I can say I have colourful friendly neighbours.
I see your point. In a way you read the up-down tone of these posts. Assuming that because we are in Thailand, the police man is a killer and the farang an innocet victim.
Someone died, and this is terrible. A woman is hurt, and ths is terrible too. Probably the policeman will not sleep peacefully for the rest of his life (total evilness exists only in the Pope speeches).
The fact is that most of us (farangs) believe that in our countries we live in democracies, just because we are called to vote on professional leechers each 4 or 5 years. Of course this is an illusion we love to believe. And since we are mostly farang on this forum, we actually write with an assumption. Many things are good in our countries. Some of us have welfare, some of us live in places which can be called almost democratic (especially north europeans and canadians). But still, we are all in the same shit like the thais. TV, advertisement, consume, is bringing our human side away. Worse, is making us ashame to be human. What we love about Thailand is the smile... something so cheap, yet easy to make available since we all have a mouth, but it lacks so much in our countries!
IF I may give you an advice, try to be less hateful, and accept other people weaknesses and partial blindness, in the hope that others do the same with you.
Besides that, no matter who's right or wrong, we all live in the same shit. Is the factory who built the gun, and th society which allows this to happen to be blamed. Not 3 human beings who happened to cross their ways at the wrong time.
love
Pippo
Well, there are some guys around in every area who killed somebody once and who are free.
They look like they sleep very well to me.
I love you too Pippo but thats just naiv.
Edited by Maxi101, 2008-01-07 15:12:58.
Posted 2008-01-07 15:11:45
Gaz Chiangmai, on 2008-01-07 14:56:10, said: Wounds to the left side could also indicate the farangs were turning AWAY FROM the cop when they were shot - again it's a subconcious action that in unrestricted space (e.g. not restricted by someone sitting to one side or the other) most people turn to their right....
No, it depends on where the bullet exited. Front or Rear exit would be a better indicator.
Gaz Chiangmai, on 2008-01-07 14:56:10, said: Also, assuning a short-arris Thai cop and a lanky Canadian, just how did the cop shoot him in the mouth with the bullet travelling DOWNWARDS to his shoulder - it implies the Canadian was either bent forward from the waist in an aggressive attack stance / backing away in a highly respectful hands above head wai position, or the guy was on his knees with the cop standing "above him" when he fired.
Does not say much as he could have been on top of the cop when the cop fired the gun. When he falls on the ground the trajectory of the bullet would show down into the mouth and shoulder even though the bullet was fired upwards when he was above the cop.
Circumstantial evidence that can be interpreted in many ways.
Posted 2008-01-07 15:15:54
The verdict according to TV? rthe most totally unbiased a bunch of hypocrites you'd ever want to meet - right?
thank God none of you are my lawyer.
Posted 2008-01-07 15:17:26
It i sick that "off duty" officers are allowed to carry a gun. It seems another execution of an drunken idiot that is covered up.
Posted 2008-01-07 15:24:25
I trust eyewitnesses and not the news and especially not anything coming from the gov or police.
As long as Thailand makes so much money from tourism, it will be hard for the reports to be honest. As long as the culture puts more importance on 'face' than truth and honesty, the Thai population will not be honest. As long as foreign visitors spend most of their time in bars and bitching to each other or ignoring the truth, the foreign visitors will have no say about how they are treated by any corrupt regime. I'm grateful that there is a place to discuss this and learn and that more and more people are becoming more awake and aware. Thailand isn't the only place, but that is no reason to dismiss the horrendous things that go on.
Posted 2008-01-07 15:25:31
aqua4, on 2008-01-07 15:11:45, said: Gaz Chiangmai, on 2008-01-07 14:56:10, said: Wounds to the left side could also indicate the farangs were turning AWAY FROM the cop when they were shot - again it's a subconcious action that in unrestricted space (e.g. not restricted by someone sitting to one side or the other) most people turn to their right....
No, it depends on where the bullet exited. Front or Rear exit would be a better indicator.
Gaz Chiangmai, on 2008-01-07 14:56:10, said: Also, assuning a short-arris Thai cop and a lanky Canadian, just how did the cop shoot him in the mouth with the bullet travelling DOWNWARDS to his shoulder - it implies the Canadian was either bent forward from the waist in an aggressive attack stance / backing away in a highly respectful hands above head wai position, or the guy was on his knees with the cop standing "above him" when he fired.
Does not say much as he could have been on top of the cop when the cop fired the gun. When he falls on the ground the trajectory of the bullet would show down into the mouth and shoulder even though the bullet was fired upwards when he was above the cop.
Circumstantial evidence that can be interpreted in many ways.
True - though the press reports all indicate he was standing when he fired
Posted 2008-01-07 15:38:20
Bad things usually happen when you get drunk then insult, and assualt, the locals in any country. Imagine a Thai guy pushed a bloke on his arse in a east London, Glasgow or Manchester pub? He might not get shot but he would probably get beaten sensless or perhaps stabbed. In some parts of Thailand they prefer to use a gun.
Call me what you like, but if the story is true that the Canadian got drunk and started pushing people around, then serves him right. Considering his girlfriend got pregnant to a Thai bloke, one can only imagine what type of tourist we're talking about here.
Two years ago I witnessed a falang (English thug) beating up a random Thai girl outside the Q bar in Bangkok, for absolutely no reason. Everyone including the staff just stood back and watched. I intervened and got punched to the floor then the guy fled. I managed to get the Taxi drivers to locate him over the radio and hand him over to the Police. Hopefully he's still in Jail!
So the point is, My sympathy for falangs who cause trouble in Thailand?.....ZERO!
Posted 2008-01-07 15:40:02
The old hands and folks in Asia who've seen police hassled and threatened will tell you that the police here in Thailand will draw their weapon (s) if they feel threatened. This isn't Dixon of Dock Green out here.
What's one of the main 'rules' for any expat in Thailand? Keep your cool! Don't cause a big drunken scene and draw attention to yourself, especially if you are farang!
Maybe this cop is a bad guy maybe not, it could well be that they inadvertently lit the fuse that started the whole shooting.
If you want it like home, GO HOME!
Posted 2008-01-07 15:42:16
This afternoon's Thai Rath ran the story on the front page, "Young Canadian tourist murdered."
Same reporting of events as TITV mentioned previously ie a domestic argument....the cop intervenes, gets into an argument and ends up shooting both the man and woman.
Posted 2008-01-07 15:42:57
Gosh, such sensational posts! But for your information the woman (who as not the dead guy's wife), as of an hour ago, is safe and recovering in a Chiang Mai hospital after her gunshot wound to the chest. Perhaps it would be best to wait for some proper reporting before we all jump to fantastic conclusions and speculations.
Posted 2008-01-07 15:46:14
JimsKnight, on 2008-01-07 16:40:02, said: The old hands and folks in Asia who've seen police hassled and threatened will tell you that the police here in Thailand will draw their weapon (s) if they feel threatened. This isn't Dixon of Dock Green out here.
What's one of the main 'rules' for any expat in Thailand? Keep your cool! Don't cause a big drunken scene and draw attention to yourself, especially if you are farang!
Maybe this cop is a bad guy maybe not, it could well be that they inadvertently lit the fuse that started the whole shooting.
If you want it like home, GO HOME!
So you are advocating the end of tourism to Thailand then as i am sure tourists do not want to vist a place where police have a history of shooting tourists while they are drunk and over a stupid thing like loss of face.
As a old asia hand though I am sure you know better (just how much time have you spent in Asia and how many countries in Asia have you lived, worked or visited outside Thailand?)
Posted 2008-01-07 15:47:16
I think the nadian was "accidentially shot to death" not murdered. Murder carries intent. POM's call this "misadventure" Great word.
Posted 2008-01-07 15:54:42
thaiexp, on 2008-01-07 15:38:20, said: Two years ago I witnessed a falang (English thug) beating up a random Thai girl outside the Q bar in Bangkok, for absolutely no reason. Everyone including the staff just stood back and watched. I intervened and got punched to the floor then the guy fled. I managed to get the Taxi drivers to locate him over the radio and hand him over to the Police. Hopefully he's still in Jail!
thats strange, I have seen numerous farang start fights with thais and every time about ten thais leap in and leave him in a mess, I would say he was very lucky
Posted 2008-01-07 15:59:13
Prakanong, on 2008-01-07 08:46:14, said: JimsKnight, on 2008-01-07 16:40:02, said: The old hands and folks in Asia who've seen police hassled and threatened will tell you that the police here in Thailand will draw their weapon (s) if they feel threatened. This isn't Dixon of Dock Green out here.
What's one of the main 'rules' for any expat in Thailand? Keep your cool! Don't cause a big drunken scene and draw attention to yourself, especially if you are farang!
Maybe this cop is a bad guy maybe not, it could well be that they inadvertently lit the fuse that started the whole shooting.
If you want it like home, GO HOME!
So you are advocating the end of tourism to Thailand then as i am sure tourists do not want to vist a place where police have a history of shooting tourists while they are drunk and over a stupid thing like loss of face.
As a old asia hand though I am sure you know better (just how much time have you spent in Asia and how many countries in Asia have you lived, worked or visited outside Thailand?)
How is 'If you want it like home.....' advocating 'the end of tourism' a bit of a crossed wire on you're part there I think 
What that statement means (if you look at it as an expat) is if people who who come here and live here wish to change the order of things and turn the place into some plastic Disney Land like in Europe or the US then they are wasting their time cause TIT.
Time spent in Asia has little to do about this subject.
8 years in SE Asia (not that I'm counting ) Happy?
Right now there's too much talk of 'change this and change that' uproar whenever a story like this breaks on TV.
So like I said if the sensationalists and drama queens keep their hair on we'll see what really happened soon enough...
Edited by JimsKnight, 2008-01-07 16:05:44.
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