702 replies to this topic
Posted 2008-01-13 18:46:50
 VOICEOVER, on 2008-01-12 21:34:40, said:
Thanks again for all the info, May I now prevail upon you good folk to enlighten me on the following:
1: Have a One Third share in a house in Aust along with my daughter and my to be Ex-wife (She and my lady here have met both here and in Aust. They get along well...Lucky me!) (The Aussie "Ex-to-be"and I have been married twice to each other ,the last time was 15 years ago and we broke up after only a few weeks) I imagine from what I have seen on Thaivisa.com that my "interest" in the Aussie house won't cause a problem when I apply for Aged Pension. Am I correct?
2:My lady is 11 years younger than I am. We also intend to adopt a 7 year old child (not my Lady's) but the child of a distant relative. I gather that once all the above takes place it should be simple enough to get PR Status and then in time Aussie Citizenship for both of them. Again, am I correct?
Sorry to sound so dumb but when I came to live in Thailand two years ago it was to WORK. Never intended having a relationship, let alone adopting a child but I now wouldn't change my situation for all the money in the world, not even the Australian Aged Pension!
Cheers,
VOICEOVER.
1. Old aged pension.
Have alook at the forms that are available here:
http://myaccount.cen...nt?initURL=true
and from memory these forms are also available in THAI!!!!
http://myaccount.centrelink.gov.au/
2. Adoption: beware here and contact OZ immigation. There are very strict rules re adoption and bringing the child back to OZ. We were going to adopt my wifes (7YO) neice but gave up after reading all the rules: you can't choose who to adopt!!! There is some provision regarding being overseas > a year ...best I not go on as I am unsure...but please follow up before you act.
Good luck.
Here is OZ Immigration 'fact sheet' that may startle you..
http://www.immi.gov..../36adopting.htm
...................................................
Posted 2008-01-14 05:11:02
oxymoron, on 2008-01-13 13:14:16, said: david96, on 2008-01-12 13:57:17, said: bgood, on 2008-01-12 10:53:22, said: Thanks for the link, david96.
I'm married (TW) with a 7y/o son (Oz citizen).
If I'm reading the info. on that link correctly:
I could have an income of up to A$ 6,000 p/a or assets of up to A$ 357,500 and receive the full AP.
I could earn less than A$ 60,000 p/a or have assets less than A$ 960,500 and receive part AP.
I would need to return to Oz and become a resident.
My wife would probably need to sell our family house, and the house her family live in here in Thailand, for us to prove residency in Oz.
While it is good to know that the 'safety net' is there if things go tits-up here, the above does not sound attractive, especially when you consider the cost of living in Oz compared to that of Thailand. it is not part of your assets as far as a pension is concerned. If you were to rent it out it would become an income producing asset. I would get the opinion of a chartered accountant in Australia regarding any Thai property that your wife owns, they would give you the correct advice.
The first point is not exactly right, 'The property you own and in which you reside is not assessable for either the income or assets test.
Do not bother with Accountants in Australia when it comes to Centrelink they do not know shiiite from clay. The only authorative person is the Centrelink Case Officer.
Be prepared to fill in a book as big as Tolstoy's War and Peace and divulge every aspect of your life if you want a Health Card or OAP.
All assets Real "as defined by the law of Torts" and cash anywhere in the world must be declared, if you do not want to commit fraud when you sign Centrelink Documents.
If you own your own home in Australia and are out of the country for long periods of time , centrelink deem your house as available to rent , to avoid losing payments we engage housesitters, and get round it thisway but centrelink still try to screw us out of our pension, roll on july when my last pension becomes available, then centrelink can keep their money , at last we will be free Nignoy
redwine
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Posted 2008-01-15 07:58:10
Just to add to all the confusion over aged pension payments.
I was in Aus in October and I went to Centrelink to try and find out what the rules are. I was told I would be eligible for the full pension but that I would not be eligible for payments until 2 years AFTER I turned 65. In other words for people who were living overseas before the age of 65 and who re entered the country to make the application, then returned to their overseas home, payments would not begin for 2 years.
Of course we have also had a change of goverment so who knows what changes to the existing legislation are in store.
oziboy
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Posted 2008-01-15 09:38:13
After two and a half years in the process of attempting to get an aged pension through Centre Link I profess to be an authourity on the subject.
It is difficult to know where to start in addressing this issue.
First, There is the two year rule which states that an applicant returning from overseas must be informed IN DETAIL by the CL rep. of all the rules pertaining to this rule. Problem? not many CL reps even know of the rules and so can not fulfill their obligation. and will either give you false information or no information at all. Both can be disasterous to your cause.
Second. There are many CL reps who are out to get you and will lay all sorts of traps for you by giving you incorrect info. and then denieing your application.
Most CL reps are totally uninformed about overseas details so go directly to the overseas division in Hobart. Do not rely on any verbal communications. GET EVERY THING IN WRITING from them as you will often get conflicting info from different officers. Keep all records and details of phone coversations IE: time subject and who you spoke to. This is vital if a conflick arrises at a later date. If things really get sticky then you can apply to the freedom of information people to get detailed records of you file. This is some times complicated and very time consuming.
AS you have to show with out a doubt that you intend in remaining in Australia indefinately make sure that you and your spouse DO NOT OWN ANY PROPERTY IN THAILAND. This will indicate that your real intended permanent residence is Thailand and not Australia. Giving an immediate disqualification
During any conversations or correspondence do not intimate for a second that you eventually intend to resume residence back in Thailand after your two year probation period in Auistralia. This will be taken by some uninformed CL reps that to are trying to defraud the system.
At all times be as wise as sepents and as meek as doves. While there are many CL reps who are genuinely helpful and sympathetic to your needs. There are just as many who have missed their true calling and should have been employed by ASIO. THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT YOUR FRIENDS. One of Australias leading Phyciatrists has found though exaustive studies that up to 10% of civil service employees are pathalogical liars or Phycopaths. Beware, they are out there with you in their sights.
Hope fully there will be some changes at the top in Centre Link for here in lies the problem. Now that we have a more friendly and compassionate government and a Minister, Jenny Macklin,who has a track record of A FAIR GO ATTITUDE.
I could go on ad infinitem, suffice to say that I have documentation to support every thing I have said.
Cheated 
Edited by oziboy, 2008-01-15 09:40:08.
Posted 2008-01-15 10:29:43
Thanks oziboy, an informative post.
I had a similar experience a few years back when I went to a medicare office. I wanted to inquire about putting my son onto my card so that he had health coverage while in Australia. The reaction from the rep I spoke to came as a shock. She told me I would need to provide all sorts on evidence that I and my son were resident in Oz. These included evidence of sale of any family owned property in Thailand, cancelation of any lease agreements, cancelation of all bank accounts in Thailand, and evidence of a property ownership or rental agreement in Oz. There were many more requirements but I can't recall them all.
When we travel to Oz now I take out family travel insurance.
Posted 2008-01-15 13:04:27
So, how do they (CL) deem that you must serve this 2 year probation period after 65, before becoming eligible for the pension payments.
One could be a fairly regular visitor to Thailand have a Thai wife and NOT be a property owner in Thailand, so where is the yardstick that you are not really residing in Australia, assuming that you own your home in Oz and spend most of each year in Oz.
Seems to me that CL would need to have a very specific formula to determine "if" or "if not" you need to serve this probation.
Other than a trip to Hobart and sitting down with a reasonable CL officer (I wouldn't trust phone conversations, even if you get the name, rank and serial number)
This is a very informative thread and with many of us in the Baby Boomer category at this time, would be well worth keeping this thread alive with practical experiences.
Agree that the new government may be a tad more receptive to the type of concerns raised here, but this will I feel may need many representations to local members of parliament and much time.
This OAP should be based on what we have done within the country over our working lives, not where we choose to ride out our time now.
In actual fact, OA Pensioners residing overseas are less of a drain on the nation's resources such as Medicare, Public Hospitals, HealthCards, SeniorCards etc.
Posted 2008-01-15 14:53:08
fishhooks, on 2008-01-15 14:04:27, said: So, how do they (CL) deem that you must serve this 2 year probation period after 65, before becoming eligible for the pension payments.
One could be a fairly regular visitor to Thailand have a Thai wife and NOT be a property owner in Thailand, so where is the yardstick that you are not really residing in Australia, assuming that you own your home in Oz and spend most of each year in Oz.
Seems to me that CL would need to have a very specific formula to determine "if" or "if not" you need to serve this probation.
Other than a trip to Hobart and sitting down with a reasonable CL officer (I wouldn't trust phone conversations, even if you get the name, rank and serial number)
This is a very informative thread and with many of us in the Baby Boomer category at this time, would be well worth keeping this thread alive with practical experiences.
Agree that the new government may be a tad more receptive to the type of concerns raised here, but this will I feel may need many representations to local members of parliament and much time.
This OAP should be based on what we have done within the country over our working lives, not where we choose to ride out our time now.
In actual fact, OA Pensioners residing overseas are less of a drain on the nation's resources such as Medicare, Public Hospitals, HealthCards, SeniorCards etc. Centrelink have no specific formular for dealing with OAPS residing overseas,their staff are so knowledgable,We were amazed a few years ago to be interviewed by a young man who was adamant that Taiwan was the capitol of Thailand and Taiwanese was a dialect spoken in the capitol,he also could not spell to save his life, and this young man, was making decisions that decide the future of peoples lives!! we have discovered that being honest with centrelink is a huge mistake, luckily we wont have to put up with their meddling for much longer  Nignoy
Posted 2008-01-16 07:10:22
bgood, on 2008-01-15 10:29:43, said: Thanks oziboy, an informative post.
I had a similar experience a few years back when I went to a medicare office. I wanted to inquire about putting my son onto my card so that he had health coverage while in Australia. The reaction from the rep I spoke to came as a shock. She told me I would need to provide all sorts on evidence that I and my son were resident in Oz. These included evidence of sale of any family owned property in Thailand, cancelation of any lease agreements, cancelation of all bank accounts in Thailand, and evidence of a property ownership or rental agreement in Oz. There were many more requirements but I can't recall them all.
When we travel to Oz now I take out family travel insurance.
What was the visa your son was travelling on? Medicare eligibility in Australia depends on the current visa the applicant holds.
Posted 2008-01-16 07:44:43
redwine, on 2008-01-15 07:58:10, said: Just to add to all the confusion over aged pension payments.
I was in Aus in October and I went to Centrelink to try and find out what the rules are. I was told I would be eligible for the full pension but that I would not be eligible for payments until 2 years AFTER I turned 65. In other words for people who were living overseas before the age of 65 and who re entered the country to make the application, then returned to their overseas home, payments would not begin for 2 years.
Of course we have also had a change of goverment so who knows what changes to the existing legislation are in store.
If you are 65+ you are entitled to an Australian age pension if eligible. However if you have resided out of the country for a period of years and return you may have your travel periods restricted if you wish to travel overseas again for the first two years and still claim the full pension. This is why you must see Centrelink in person for any enquiries.
If asked by Centrelink if you own any property in Thailand you just state that all property is owned by the family of your wife. They are looking for income you might have from overseas investments. (You will of course have no income from Thailand.)
Residency periods were at Jan 2007 for a full pension 25 years, part pension 10 years, so if you had lived and worked in Australia for 25 years in the period before you were 65 you should be eligible for an age pension. They will certainly want to know about any investments you have overseas.
Edited by david96, 2008-01-16 07:54:21.
Posted 2008-01-16 11:40:22
Quote 'david96'
"What was the visa your son was travelling on? Medicare eligibility in Australia depends on the current visa the applicant holds."
David
My son is an Australian citizen, as I am. We don't require visas to enter Oz. My Thai wife does and has only ever been to Oz on tourist visas.
At the Medicare office there were no questions about visas, only questions about our resident status (and proof there of).
Posted 2008-01-16 12:01:17
bgood, on 2008-01-16 12:40:22, said: Quote 'david96'
"What was the visa your son was travelling on? Medicare eligibility in Australia depends on the current visa the applicant holds."
David
My son is an Australian citizen, as I am. We don't require visas to enter Oz. My Thai wife does and has only ever been to Oz on tourist visas.
At the Medicare office there were no questions about visas, only questions about our resident status (and proof there of).
Then you would have no problem if you are both Australian citizens, Medicare would have only been checking his resident status in Australia before adding the name to your card.
Posted 2008-01-16 13:59:12
Am I imagining it! or is there something strange about this computer I'm using at an Internet Cafe?
I'm getting a "tree" of reply posts on all topics and have to click on each reply individually to read same rather than scrolling through.
Posted 2008-01-16 14:19:35
david96, on 2008-01-16 05:01:17, said: bgood, on 2008-01-16 12:40:22, said: Quote 'david96'
"What was the visa your son was travelling on? Medicare eligibility in Australia depends on the current visa the applicant holds."
David
My son is an Australian citizen, as I am. We don't require visas to enter Oz. My Thai wife does and has only ever been to Oz on tourist visas.
At the Medicare office there were no questions about visas, only questions about our resident status (and proof there of).
Then you would have no problem if you are both Australian citizens, Medicare would have only been checking his resident status in Australia before adding the name to your card.
after our daughter was born here in LOS, I went down to the medicare office on my first trip back to Melbourne and got my daughter put down on my card. When was asked have you moved back to Australia permanently I said at the moment my intention is to stay here permanently. In essense I wasn't lying, as I'd finished up one contract in BKK and was waiting for a next one to be signed. Until it had been signed, I had no intention of going back to LOS. Took down a bunch of bills and letter still addressed to me in OZ to strengthen my case.
Missed out on the baby bonus though, would have like to have scammed, um sorry, been eligble for that.
Posted 2008-01-16 16:09:36
I'm 63 yo now and I have a Thai wife, we live in our home in outer Bangkok, the property is in her name. I have no property or assets in my name in Thailand but I do own my own home in Melbourne. I go back to Melbourne every year for one month just to take care of any outstanding business etc. I lived full time in Australia from 1945 till 2003 and worked full time from 1960 till 2003, the most I've been out of Australia over that period is three months. Would I be eligible under the current rules to receive the OAP at 65 yo. On my last visit to Melbourne I went to my local CL to test the water and to my amazement I was abruptly told told to forget about it now and go back to see the CL when I'm 65 yo, so much for the advice from an Australian Government department, how are we supposed to plan our lives for the future. My total assets in Australia are a moderate home and furnishings, a 8 yo car and my superannuation whilst very handy is well under the OAG income threshold. I could apply for a spouse visa for my wife but it's not our choice to live in Australia at the present time, I enjoy living in Bangkok and the cost of living here gives us a very good lifestyle, the same lifestyle I simply couldn't afford in Australia, they say that Australia is the lucky country that is true but it doesnt apply to Australians who are 50yo plus who were born in Australia.
Posted 2008-01-16 16:40:59
Mason, I would put that down to "things may Change". Change of Govt may shift goal posts?
Posted 2008-01-16 18:33:56
I'd be pleased if that happened, Chris, but I fear that with an aging population of baby boomers, it would be very difficult for any Govt to shift to any great extent.
Posted 2008-01-16 23:14:59
It's now 2.30am here in Sydney on Thu. I may get tired of this before long, in which case I'll try to add what I can at a later time.
I worked for what's now called Centrelink from '81 to 9/97. Before 9/97 it was called the Dept of Social Security, and before that......
Firstly, if phoning them always get a 'receipt' number...the name is not so important.
+ note the date. Telephone calls are made to so-called Call Centres these days, not to individual regional offices, as before (where one could actually ask for and speak a second time to the same person as before, person who would quite likely remember you - always a pleasant experience).
Age Pension: a male is - in law, repeat in law - 'eligible' for the AP from day one of 65th birthday, and the signed paper 'claim' for this may be 'lodged' (submitted) prior to this day - days or weeks before, when is irrelevant.
A paper 'claim' (for any benefit/pension) cannot be refused, under any circumstances (it resides in a cardboard file until the cows come home). (For women the qualifying age is currently 63 + 1/2).
A person 'qualifies' for AP if and 'when' certain criteria are met - mainly income, assets, residency. The words 'eligible' and 'qualify' are sancrosact within C.......k.
Assets and income: the computer does the 2 calculations (tests), and C...k pays whichever is the lower figure produced. You live in a cave but own 2 mill bucks worth of paintings (assets test hits you) or you run a brothel, earn a mill a month but own nothing (income hits you). The computer understands. It'll pay $212pf as per the A test, but $212.50 as per the I test....you get paid under the A test - this is what your first letter will tell you. Dead simple - the 'puter is 100% impartial. Subsequent letters will ask you to report upon any 'changed circumstances'.
All assets, all income, is relevant.
Residency: you lived most of your life in Botswana but only 5 years in Oz - you are joking mate, go away (mind you, you can complain - often successfully - about impolite responses, even though you are basically an opportunistic fraud - we are very PC here).
All repeat all knockbacks can be 'appealed', meaning certain experts take you even more seriously than you take yourself!
People float here on leaky boats just for the welfare system. It's a wondrous thing.
Now it's 3.15am. G'night.
Posted 2008-01-17 08:07:37
VOICEOVER. I was living in Thailand for 3 or 4 years with the Australian Disability Pension their was a 13 or 26 week rule at the time but just before returning to Australia I had a phone call with Centrelink and they changed my status to International Permanent. A year ago my status was changed again from Disability to Age. I have been receiving the Australian age pension in Thailand for nearly a year now, with no problem, You must stay in contact with them, that is a must, ie keep them informed of your present address, if they write to you, and you do not respond within about 28 days they will cut you off. I am under no obligation to return to Australia after a period of time. I receive payment every 28 days via SWIFT directly in to my Kasikorn savings account. I communicate with Centrelink International in Hobart although my last residence in Australia was Perth. Yes a while ago I was considering marrying a Thai woman. Centrelink inform me she would be "Deemed to be earning a living' so my pension would be reduced. Centrelink International Hobart. Tel 009 61 3 6222 3455 (I use 009 cheaper) they will immediately return your call in case you have no credit on your phone. or call Australian Telstra 001 999 61 1000 and ask for reverse charge call. I hope this has been some help to you. regards
ps. I do get the full pension but if I was in Australia I would get concessions like housing allowance ect. also it is seasonally adjusted twice a year in May and November.
Posted 2008-01-17 08:11:44
It seems that dealing with the Hobart office direct is the way to go for correct advice and a sympathetic hearing. Am I right?
Posted 2008-01-17 14:19:38
roskruge, on 2008-01-17 08:07:37, said: VOICEOVER. I was living in Thailand for 3 or 4 years with the Australian Disability Pension their was a 13 or 26 week rule at the time but just before returning to Australia I had a phone call with Centrelink and they changed my status to International Permanent. A year ago my status was changed again from Disability to Age. I have been receiving the Australian age pension in Thailand for nearly a year now, with no problem, You must stay in contact with them, that is a must, ie keep them informed of your present address, if they write to you, and you do not respond within about 28 days they will cut you off. I am under no obligation to return to Australia after a period of time. I receive payment every 28 days via SWIFT directly in to my Kasikorn savings account. I communicate with Centrelink International in Hobart although my last residence in Australia was Perth. Yes a while ago I was considering marrying a Thai woman. Centrelink inform me she would be "Deemed to be earning a living' so my pension would be reduced. Centrelink International Hobart. Tel 009 61 3 6222 3455 (I use 009 cheaper) they will immediately return your call in case you have no credit on your phone. or call Australian Telstra 001 999 61 1000 and ask for reverse charge call. I hope this has been some help to you. regards
ps. I do get the full pension but if I was in Australia I would get concessions like housing allowance ect. also it is seasonally adjusted twice a year in May and November.
My Thai wife will be 54 yo when I apply for the OAP, would she be deemed to be earning a living at that age, my wife hasn't done one days paid work since I met her five years ago.
Posted 2008-01-17 15:32:49
Thanks Mason45: I was going to ask a similar question!
What yardstick or formulae decides that your Thai wife (or any wife for that matter) "if" under a woman's accepted age for retirement, is deemed to be working or capable of working.
Many married woman in Australia are and have always been a "Houswife" (Their 'work' in the 'house' certainly counts in Divorce settlements.)
What is to say that she should or must work, surely this is discrimination, which in Australia seems to be getting more of a hearing these days. (Look at the 'cricket' so called scandals of discrimination in very recent times!
Let's keep this topic going, I'm sure to date not enough noise has been made about some of these very unfair tactics forced upon us.
Posted 2008-01-17 16:49:16
OK - simply, how many years must you work in Australia to be eligible for the aged pension. Do jobs at part time jobs at highschool when you were 15 count on the clock? Or does it have nothing to do with how many years you've worked, but rather, how many years you've lived on OZ?
Would be interested to know.
Posted 2008-01-17 17:36:51
Yes you are right samran it is how many years residence not actual worked. as is the case of the UK. I first entered Australia in '68 so I was eligible for the full pension. They did give me the formula but sorry I forgot it.
Posted 2008-01-17 20:00:49
fishhooks, on 2008-01-17 17:32:49, said: Thanks Mason45: I was going to ask a similar question!
What yardstick or formulae decides that your Thai wife (or any wife for that matter) "if" under a woman's accepted age for retirement, is deemed to be working or capable of working.
Many married woman in Australia are and have always been a "Houswife" (Their 'work' in the 'house' certainly counts in Divorce settlements.)
What is to say that she should or must work, surely this is discrimination, which in Australia seems to be getting more of a hearing these days. (Look at the 'cricket' so called scandals of discrimination in very recent times!
Let's keep this topic going, I'm sure to date not enough noise has been made about some of these very unfair tactics forced upon us.
If you die...she will get the widows pension....until she can transfer to an aged pension or re-marries
If she dies......???
Edited by gburns57au, 2008-01-17 20:02:02.
Posted 2008-01-18 12:32:12
Thanks Graham, but I may have phrased the question not clearly.
What I am referring to is the fact that a males OAP, which let's say he qualifies on all counts, like residency, income & assets, seems on the advice of some members to be reduced somewhat if he marries a lady who is "deemed" to be able to work.
So assuming they are both alive and kicking, 'MR' is penalised, no matter how well he scores on all other fronts to be eligible.
So basically the question is; Can the Australian Government require 'MRS' to have an income to help support 'MR' whether on our own soil or overseas? Of course in most cases which we discuss here, having a younger wife.
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