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[Artisi]

chiangdan, on 2009-10-27 12:07:42, said:

fishhooks, on 2008-01-11 12:38:22, said:

Did I read somewhere on T.V. a while back that the Age Pension (65+) for a male, almost cuts out if you are married to a younger lady who is still considered able to wok and provide family income.

I think a male member quoted that he was living in Thailand and had his pension almost zeroed when he advised Centrelink that he was married in the above circumstance.

Yes that is true. My father who is 68 yrs and his partner is 53yrs gets next to nothing on the aged pension because his partner is considered to be of working age until 55 for a woman and is forced by centrelink to actively seek employment. So all you 65+ men married to 20 something yr old thai women planning on retiring in Thailand on the pension forget it. By the time your wife reaches 55 and you become allegable for the pension the tree you were planted under will already be bearing fruit.

All of the above is incorrect, if you are 65+ and retired and married to a younger women you are assessed for part of the singles pension - in my case I am married to a younger lady, my pension is based on the amount of assets that I have and my wife is considered as being able to work, ever though she is a fulltime university student (PhD) and not working. My pension considering it is assets based and my wife is capable of employment is still nearly the full single rate.
No complaints from me - love the Aussie government and their support I get

[fishhooks]

Artisi:

If on-record with Centrelink as being married, how does your classification swing around to being looked at in a single situation.
I don't doubt you in any way, you know what you are getting, but I was always under the impression that Centrelink will always go for the lowest form of denominator and if they can pay out less to a married couple they would certainly use that avenue.
I'm not trying to be a "Sm..t A', just learning as not in the situation yet.

[ozzydom]

Artisi, on 2009-11-06 16:29:02, said:

chiangdan, on 2009-10-27 12:07:42, said:

fishhooks, on 2008-01-11 12:38:22, said:

Did I read somewhere on T.V. a while back that the Age Pension (65+) for a male, almost cuts out if you are married to a younger lady who is still considered able to wok and provide family income.

I think a male member quoted that he was living in Thailand and had his pension almost zeroed when he advised Centrelink that he was married in the above circumstance.

Yes that is true. My father who is 68 yrs and his partner is 53yrs gets next to nothing on the aged pension because his partner is considered to be of working age until 55 for a woman and is forced by centrelink to actively seek employment. So all you 65+ men married to 20 something yr old thai women planning on retiring in Thailand on the pension forget it. By the time your wife reaches 55 and you become allegable for the pension the tree you were planted under will already be bearing fruit.

All of the above is incorrect, if you are 65+ and retired and married to a younger women you are assessed for part of the singles pension - in my case I am married to a younger lady, my pension is based on the amount of assets that I have and my wife is considered as being able to work, ever though she is a fulltime university student (PhD) and not working. My pension considering it is assets based and my wife is capable of employment is still

nearly the full single rate.
No complaints from me - love the Aussie government and their support I get

I have difficulty reconciling the above post, as you are in one of the three main catagories ,these being Single, Couple both eligible or Couple one eligible partner.
For the information of members I will quote from the latest edition of Australia Pensioner News International edition
RATES=Overseas Pension Rates .

Single Couple both eligible Couple one eligible partner
Per Year AUD $16010-80 AUD 24138-40 AUD $ 12069-20
supplement $509-60 $852-80 $426-40

As you state that your Pension is Asset Based ,I assume you are saying that you have assets in excess of the Allowable threshhold , and if so the amount would be deemed as earning 3%, this amount will reduce the pension you receive by 50 cents in the $ as a single or 25 cents in the $ as a couple.
Rate of payment is calculated under both income and assets tests. The test that results in the lower rate will be applied.
If your circumstances are as you state ,then your pension should be about $4000 per annum less than the Single Pension and that does not take into account any reductions from the assets and incomes tests.

[xerostar]

More on: The Return to Oz for a Paltry Pension Quandary

I've been in LOS for almost a year with my TW (who is many years younger than I).
I am a citizen by birth and have worked most of my life in Oz.
I had to return to Oz in March to finalise the sale of my house.
I have no assets and no income.
I've established a nice home here in LOS for myself, my wife and her family.
I've been doing part-time voluntary English teaching.
I've only a few thousand dollars left in savings.

I will be 65 next June.
I have a brand-new passport.
I am due to apply for the extension to my Non-Imm-O visa before the 8th December.

The quandary is, should I apply for the extension and get a big stamp in my passport
that says I want to stay in LOS for another 12 months or do I leave quietly and just
get a little exit stamp with no apparent intention to come back.

What I mean is, it won't look too good when trying to prove my resident status if they see
that I have a 12 month extension to stay (in LOS) in my passport.

I don't want to leave any "earlier than neccessary" so I was thinking about applying for a
30 day extension and then leaving for Oz in early January.

Six months away from my wife and our new baby is not going to be easy and should
not even be required!

Plus the expenses of air-fares, rent, insurance, setting up a cheap(?) flat with a bed,
a fridge and buying a cheap car will make the 6 months un-economic to say the least.
I'm not even sure if I can get more than a part-time job as my health is not too good.
Taking my TW and child with me would be a very costly exercise and besides she
doesn't want to go away from her mum and family and I agree, rightly so.

All because of stupid immigration laws that were designed to stop new immigrants
cashing in and returning to their homelands.

It has left us early-retired Aussie expats in an untenable position when applying for our pension.
It's like being sent to purgatory for no bloody reason!
My sin is that I gave up my job early and ceased to be a burden to the Oz economy.
We deserve better treatment!

After getting the pension (on the basis of being a resident) in June, I hope to apply for
a new Non-Imm-O Visa and return HOME to LOS for good!

The idea that my wife could also earn an income in LOS and be classed as
a supporting partner equivalent to a wife in Australia, is ridiculous.
She has no formal qualifications, so at most she would only get a Thai farm labourer's wage.

So I will be forced to declare our separation so that I can get the full single pension.
Well it is a separation isn't it?
Forced upon me!
I do have a choice I know ("do as we say or get lost and starve, for all we care!")
So I won't be telling a lie!
Besides, I want something in return for my involuntary sojourn in "the lucky country".

But I refuse to stay in Oz for 2 years because some nerdy pen-pusher in Canberra
made a rule one day so he could justify his job.
Jumping through hoops to the heedless will of politicians and their staff goes heavily against my grain!

I really sympathise with you guys who retired earlier than me because trying to prove
your resident status is going to be a devil of a job (and should not even be neccessary!)

Any advice or helpful suggestions gratefully accepted.

P.S. I am now fully qualified to join the: "thebitchersmoanersandwhinersclub.blogspot.com"
and you are cordially invited to join me!

[fishhooks]

Does one need to show their Passport to Centrelink when applying for an OAP?

You seem (xerostar) seem to be concerned about them noting your Thai Visa Status!

Centrelink definitely (if you have any record with them for Newstart etc) does have all of your entries and exit info directly from Immigration, but as to Visa info in your Passport?????

[GungaDin]

CL have no need to look at your passport, they're only interested in time spent abroad and in Aus.
Like the poster above said, they track you thru Aus Immigration info.

[Artisi]

xerostar - trust you aren't working (volunteer) in Thailand without a work permit - Thailand also has rules that many might not agree with - but rules are rules.

[xerostar]

When you apply for the pension, one of the first things they ask in the application form
is that you must prove your identity.

They give you a list of documents that you can use with their worth as ID in points.
You need 100 points.

Passport (current) 70
Citizenship Certificate 70
Birth Certificate 70
Certificate of Evidence of Resident Status 70
Australian Entry Visa 70
Driver’s Licence 40
Marriage Certificate 40
Divorce Papers 40
Birth Certificate(s) of any of your child(ren) 40
Education Examination Certificates 40
Bank Card or Statements 40
Mortgage Papers 40
Certificate of Name Change 40
Rates Notices 20
Financial Papers (inc. share or superannuation statements) 10
Taxation Assessment Notice 10

I think if you present your passport as proof of ID, they would most likely take the opportunity
to take a look through it to see what visas you have.

I suppose it depends on the officer.

If they are trying to determine if you are genuinely intending to stay in Australia, then finding a 12 month Non-Imm O visa
for Thailand in your passport would not strengthen your case.

Perhaps I'm being paranoid here but I have learned in the past not to give the opposition too many free points.

Or in other words, expect the worst and be prepared.
As prepared as you can be, with Murphy looking over your shoulder ..

So for me, a birth certificate and a driver's licence should do the trick.

Another problem:

If you've worked overseas for any length of time and paid into a super fund, you are obliged to apply
to that country for a pension before you can begin to ask for the Australian pension.

I spent a few years working in Europe, 30 years ago, so I'm going to start early on that one.
Evidently they have a section of Centrelink that will help you apply of that foreign pension.
I'll be giving them a call.
Once that avenue has been tested and settled, only then will Centrelink consider paying you the balance.

[fishhooks]

I've often wondered what right C/Link has in scrutinising ones Passport for info, particularly stamps etc from overseas countries.

They obviously have the right and I agree with that, to know the details of your arrivals and departures from Australia, but as to other info off shore, apart from the front identity page......................?

I don't think you are being paranoid, xerostar, but I think as a general strategy, you never hand any official any document that is not specifically required.
Congrats for reopening this thread which has had a pre-Christmas holiday!

[ozzydom]

xerostar, I would not worry to much about trying to hide your movements as Centrelink has direct access to the immigration data base, you will have little trouble getting a pension at 65 years of age, keeping it will be the problem as, if you leave Oz your pension will be automatically stopped after 13 weeks out of Oz unless you have done the qualifying two years.
If your pension is stopped it means returning to Oz to reapply.
Standing on your hind legs criticizing Centrelink is an excercise in futility , sometimes we just have to toe the line no matter what we think of the system.
Having said that, I wish you every success as hassles are something we can do without in our latter years.

[reallyok]

xerostar, on 2009-12-20 13:05:33, said:

When you apply for the pension, one of the first things they ask in the application form
is that you must prove your identity.

They give you a list of documents that you can use with their worth as ID in points.
You need 100 points.

Passport (current) 70
Citizenship Certificate 70
Birth Certificate 70
Certificate of Evidence of Resident Status 70
Australian Entry Visa 70
Driver's Licence 40
Marriage Certificate 40
Divorce Papers 40
Birth Certificate(s) of any of your child(ren) 40
Education Examination Certificates 40
Bank Card or Statements 40
Mortgage Papers 40
Certificate of Name Change 40
Rates Notices 20
Financial Papers (inc. share or superannuation statements) 10
Taxation Assessment Notice 10

I think if you present your passport as proof of ID, they would most likely take the opportunity
to take a look through it to see what visas you have.

I suppose it depends on the officer.

If they are trying to determine if you are genuinely intending to stay in Australia, then finding a 12 month Non-Imm O visa
for Thailand in your passport would not strengthen your case.

Perhaps I'm being paranoid here but I have learned in the past not to give the opposition too many free points.

Or in other words, expect the worst and be prepared.
As prepared as you can be, with Murphy looking over your shoulder ..

So for me, a birth certificate and a driver's licence should do the trick.

Another problem:

If you've worked overseas for any length of time and paid into a super fund, you are obliged to apply
to that country for a pension before you can begin to ask for the Australian pension.

I spent a few years working in Europe, 30 years ago, so I'm going to start early on that one.
Evidently they have a section of Centrelink that will help you apply of that foreign pension.
I'll be giving them a call.
Once that avenue has been tested and settled, only then will Centrelink consider paying you the balance.



Working in Europe 30 yrs ago ! ..............Hope for your sake, that was'nt in the UK. I immigrated to OZ from UK aged 38 having worked since i was 15. Paid my stamp for over 23 years. But the 'buggers' froze my pension at 1973 rate and will not index it so i get a paltry few quid a month from the government who took my money for all those years.
Now if i lived in say, Germany, USA or a dozen other countries the bastards would index my pension, and i would be getting the same as a gentleman who has done a finantial migration from India or Pakistan or a dozen or so other 3rd world countries.
Don't expect anything from the bloody brit govt !

[reallyok]

Nignoy, on 2008-01-11 05:04:46, said:

Sorry to be the bearer of Bad News, my wife and I are both australian old age pensioners, we were leaving australia on the 21st of september last year on a 6 month tour of asia and europe, we were informed by immigration at Brisbane if we stayed out of australia for more than 13 weeks we would both lose our age pension and have to wait a further 3 months before being eligable to apply again,so we cut short our trip and returned after 12 weeks,when we returned on the 3rd of december we contacted a solicitor to check up on this new regulation, uptil now all we are getting is conflicting informationas soon as we hear something definite in writing we will post it here Nignoy

If you want the true entitlement story DO NOT go to a general centrelink office, they know bugger all and appear to be hellbent on reducing anything and everything.
There is a special office for pensions payable overseas and they are good. I was first told by centrelink ,that if i was overseas for "X" number of weeks my pension would cease ! However i got on to the overseas pension office and they checked my file and awarded me with full pension less medical entitlements which i will get if i return from Los to OZ.
So don't be panicked until you talk with the right people.

[reallyok]

Nignoy, on 2008-01-11 14:55:57, said:

Goinghomesoon, on 2008-01-11 08:04:07, said:

I thought the 13 week rule applied to other Centrelink payments such as the dole, not aged pensions. I would take the advice of immigration officers at the airport with a large grain of salt.

There are also other rules as well as being in Australia on the day you lodge. You must have lived in Australia for a minimum number of years during your working life- I think 20 years - and paid tax during that time. It's all on the Centrelink website.

We both receive aged pension as previously stated, , on the 9th of december we were called into centrelink Caboolture for an interview, to prove that we actually did return to australia, we were informed that as aged pensioners we have to inform centrelink when leaving australia and if leaving for over 13 weeks financial penalties could apply,Nignoy

Hi Nignoy, i am from Rocksberg and also used the Caboolture office. And that is where i got all the bloody strife till i found the "overseas pension" phone number. I am now happily ensconced on Samui and get my full pension. .......ReallyOK mate !

[brianb1944]

There is a great deal of misinformation contained in the above postings.

I am an OAP living in Thailand with a young wife, in receipt of a comfortable Supernnuation, and still qualified for some Age Pension.

I am required to return to Oz after 26 weeks to remain eligible for the amount that I receive, as I have stuff to do in oz, and grandkids to visit, this is no hardship.

As many people have pointed out, the info is all available on the website, but may take a bit of finding. I would recommend writing or Emailing Centrelink with any queries, rather than phoning, you will then receive "hard copy " reply.

Incidentally, I worked for Centrelink for 26 years prior to retirement.

[Xangsamhua]

brianb1944, on 2010-02-04 17:08:55, said:

There is a great deal of misinformation contained in the above postings.

I am an OAP living in Thailand with a young wife, in receipt of a comfortable Supernnuation, and still qualified for some Age Pension.

I am required to return to Oz after 26 weeks to remain eligible for the amount that I receive, as I have stuff to do in oz, and grandkids to visit, this is no hardship.

As many people have pointed out, the info is all available on the website, but may take a bit of finding. I would recommend writing or Emailing Centrelink with any queries, rather than phoning, you will then receive "hard copy " reply.

Incidentally, I worked for Centrelink for 26 years prior to retirement.

Brian, were you continuously resident in Australia when you applied for the OAP? If so, wouldn't you be entitled to your pension payments wherever you resided subsequently?

Do you mean you have to return to Australia every 26 weeks to remain eligible for the pension or to obtain certain benefits that you would not receive without returning? That is, would you still receive some of your pension if you didn't return?

When you suggest writing or emailing Centrelink are you referring to Centrelink International in Hobart?

Thanks for your advice.

[harrry]

Xangsamhua, on 2010-02-06 19:51:11, said:

brianb1944, on 2010-02-04 17:08:55, said:

There is a great deal of misinformation contained in the above postings.

I am an OAP living in Thailand with a young wife, in receipt of a comfortable Supernnuation, and still qualified for some Age Pension.

I am required to return to Oz after 26 weeks to remain eligible for the amount that I receive, as I have stuff to do in oz, and grandkids to visit, this is no hardship.

As many people have pointed out, the info is all available on the website, but may take a bit of finding. I would recommend writing or Emailing Centrelink with any queries, rather than phoning, you will then receive "hard copy " reply.

Incidentally, I worked for Centrelink for 26 years prior to retirement.

Brian, were you continuously resident in Australia when you applied for the OAP? If so, wouldn't you be entitled to your pension payments wherever you resided subsequently?

Do you mean you have to return to Australia every 26 weeks to remain eligible for the pension or to obtain certain benefits that you would not receive without returning? That is, would you still receive some of your pension if you didn't return?

When you suggest writing or emailing Centrelink are you referring to Centrelink International in Hobart?

Thanks for your advice.

OAP is payable permanently outside australia however after 26 weels you may have the allowences reduced....you will lose about $70 a month if you do not go back not the whole lot.

[Nignoy]

Good to see this post is still active, earlier working in europe was mentioned,centrelink have actually got a german pension dept staffed with germans, who are spot on with their information and service,bit off thread but we have sold the house and moved away from the dreaded Caboolture CL are now in the vicinity of toowoomba CL there are great , some of them can even read they made it very clear no problems with travelling or living overseas, so looks like at last our life is our own!!

[Xangsamhua]

harrry, on 2010-02-06 22:35:36, said:

OAP is payable permanently outside australia however after 26 weels you may have the allowences reduced....you will lose about $70 a month if you do not go back not the whole lot.

Thank you.

[Mason45]

I lived in Australia for 60 years before marrying my Thai wife 5 years ago. I've returned to Australia on each of those 5 years that I've lived in Thailand, normally 3-4 weeks each time and I hold a Thai non immigration visa/Thai wife. I still have my home in Melbourne, I still pay for the services to this property and I still have bank accounts etc in Australia. Nothings changed except I spend long extended holidays in Thailand. Several months ago I received a letter from the Joe Ludwig, the Minisister for Human Resources and the letter stated that to claim the Age Pension I would need to be an Australian resident and be present in Australia when I apply. If the department deems that I've broken my residential status which is highly likely then I would need to return to Australia for a minimum of 2 years before my residential status is restored. Does the 2 year qualifying period mean I can't leave Australia even for a holiday? The letter also stated that 1. the nature of my accommodation in Australia. 2. the nature and extent of my family relationships in Australia. 3. the frequency and duration of my travel outside Australia. Those 3 points would come under consideration when the departnent assessed my eligibilty. I honestly believe we're all fighting a battle for an entitlement that we can't win. A major problem for expats is that they're a minority group and politicians whether they be government or opposition never go into bat for minority groups because there's no points scoring for their popularity come election time. One reference given to me was : Centrelink International Services Phone : (03) 6222 2908 Nigel Males.

[fishhooks]

Mason

It could be that even though you are maintaining Australia as a home base and paying utilities and have a bank account, on paper it looks as though you are actually spending the majority of time in Thailand and only returning to Australia for a "short Holiday" rather than Thailand being the holiday.
From what I gather earlier in posts here, one needs prior to getting the pension, to demonstrate that Australia is to all intents and purposes your main place of residence.
After the grant of the pension, if a person moves overseas, after this proof of main existence in Australia, it seems it's much easier to hang on to the payment which I think is then reduced a bit.

I'm no expert, only taking in what I have read here.

[Artisi]

Go to Google and type in INT019.0910 - this brings up the Centrelink info "Are you leaving Australia?"
This discusses all options regarding leaving Australia / various pensions.

NOTE: INT019 is (number 0 not letter O)

If you are on an Age Pension (and not subject to former residence restrictions) you will get your pension while overseas - less a few items - probably health allowance, phone allowance etc - but your basic pension remains.

Edited by Artisi, 2010-02-25 16:21:13.

[merlen10002]

I have been in Thailand for two years now, I get the age pension it is paid into my Thai bank each month one the 1st , never miss, I applied in Australia before coming to Thailand, I was assessed before they gave me the pension and it took some months before a got the pension, they back paid it to the date I applied, they dont miss a thing , and the amount of things you must prove it a lot, and they want documents to prove, I you may have to be in Australia to apply because it is not easy, you may do it on line but should ask Centerlink,, the office for overseas is in Tasmania the phone number is + 613-6222 3455, I phone them from Thai and they take the charges, I informed Centerlink that I was going to live in Thailand before I left Australia, I had to supply them with an address in Thailand, I was told by Centerlink that all Australian can receive the pension in any country they go to, I have had no 26 day reduction thing and was not told about it or was anything in all the imformation I was given by Centerlink, I get the same as anyone in Australia with the same amount of assets, best to contact Centerlink in Tasmania, their email is international.services@centerlink.gov.au or their address is GPO Box 273 Hobart 7001 Australia, They are very good and help with every thing,, I have had no problem, they answer email and with in a few days, same with a letter. if you tell them every thing as it is you will get the pension,, if you live with a Thai lady the may only give you half the pension, same if you work in Thai. I have always lived on my own in a room, and tell them that if you know what I mean ?

[bapak]

merlen10002, on 2010-03-10 21:51:51, said:

I have been in Thailand for two years now, I get the age pension it is paid into my Thai bank each month one the 1st , never miss, I applied in Australia before coming to Thailand, I was assessed before they gave me the pension and it took some months before a got the pension, they back paid it to the date I applied, they dont miss a thing , and the amount of things you must prove it a lot, and they want documents to prove, I you may have to be in Australia to apply because it is not easy, you may do it on line but should ask Centerlink,, the office for overseas is in Tasmania the phone number is + 613-6222 3455, I phone them from Thai and they take the charges, I informed Centerlink that I was going to live in Thailand before I left Australia, I had to supply them with an address in Thailand, I was told by Centerlink that all Australian can receive the pension in any country they go to, I have had no 26 day reduction thing and was not told about it or was anything in all the imformation I was given by Centerlink, I get the same as anyone in Australia with the same amount of assets, best to contact Centerlink in Tasmania, their email is international.services@centerlink.gov.au or their address is GPO Box 273 Hobart 7001 Australia, They are very good and help with every thing,, I have had no problem, they answer email and with in a few days, same with a letter. if you tell them every thing as it is you will get the pension,, if you live with a Thai lady the may only give you half the pension, same if you work in Thai. I have always lived on my own in a room, and tell them that if you know what I mean ?

My experience over the years is basically the same above. Minor correction. I think international.services@centerlink.gov.au should be international.services@centrelink.gov.au

[reallyok]

Nignoy, on 2008-01-22 14:53:16, said:

This topic has been brilliant and very informative,but I think that what it all boils down too is !!which muppet you talk to in Centrelink on the day, and what type of mood they are in!! as far as the staff in hobart are concerned, they are quite capable of cocking things up too just imagine being legally entitled to 3 aged pensions or parts thereof, plus an army pension, you can imagine the mountains of paper work and interviews required by centrelink, we have persevered and got used to the fact that as soon as we step on a plane isaanbound , we will be invited down to centrelink for a chat, just persevere folks, failing that, telling them to go forth and multiply or words to that effect helps too Nignoy

Spot on Nignoy !
I made 4 visits to Caboolture CL, saw 2 different persons and got different answers from a couple of 'dropkicks'.
Eventually one of them, after a lot of arguing, told me to ring a certain person at the 'Overseas Pensions' department.
He was a pleasant and informative person who told me not to take any notice of what i had been told and to call him back the next day.
The result being i have my full pension paid into my bank fortnightly less the medical and phone benifit.............simple !
I advise anybody living here in LOS to go direct to 'Overseas pensions' for satisfaction. The other lot are so busy scrapping with 'dole bludgers' that they lump us all together.

[reallyok]

fishhooks, on 2008-05-04 19:12:36, said:

So you are saying with surety, that if one is at the correct age of 65 (for most of us), have the allowable amounts of assets etc (allowing for the sliding scale of payment), are up-front with all your dealings with Centrelink, (wise anyway), you will be placed on the "International Status List" and can live overseas and be paid monthly (probably into an Australian bank account)

I am a little concerned now, as i have not contacted CL since nov 2009. My OA pension still appears in my Commonwealth Bank account every 14 days. Question now is, should i say nothing or should i "poke the wasps nest'