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[timekeeper]

i just said to my thai wife (a teacher) did you see the news about the accident at Siam park, she said 'yes' in a very unconcerned manner, i said does it not surprise you? she said 'everyone knows Siam park is dangerous,  government know for long time' i said you ever take kids there? she said 'no its not safe, school not want problem'. so there you go a Thais opinion of it, still very sad to hear though about the accident. i hope all concerned fully recover very soon

[Briggsy]

Ha! Just close the already-knackered 20-year-old ride. What a joke! Why not close the whole park? Until action is taken that forces the owner to comply, more needless accidents will happen.

Ah well, they get the government they deserve.

[ratcatcher]

CRIMINAL NEGLIGENCE - Definition - Wikipedia.
"In the criminal law, criminal negligence is one of the three general classes of mens rea (Latin for "guilty mind") element required to constitute a conventional as opposed to strict liability offence. It is defined as:

    careless, inattentive, neglectful, willfully blind, or in the case of gross negligence what would have been reckless in any other defendant. "
The owners of Siam Park were criminally negligent. Can anyone argue for them?

[scratt]

Jockstar, on 2008-01-12 20:19:06, said:

I would go down the slide with the kids , just for their safety.

*cough* That's your story and you're sticking to it! *cough* 'Erm, what exactly were you going to do if the ride collapsed!??! Turn into Superman!?!?!

But seriously, all these people that say they saw this ride and for some time have 'known' it was an accident waiting to happen.. What did YOU do about it then?

It's all very well blaming the kind of selfish idiot who runs or owns these places, and moaning about the government which also doesn't really give two hoots... But what have any of you done to try and solve this problem?

Edited by scratt, 2008-01-13 10:04:24.

[Jockstar]

Quote

I would have expected that after the first 2 or 3 kids, word would have been sent to the top of the slide... "Hey, stop sending kids down... they're getting expelled out and breaking femurs.

Here in lies a problem SJ. I have been to this park with the kids about 5 times over the years. Not once have i seen a steward at the top of the slide telling kids to wait. Basically what happens the kids get to the top and just train down together. No one stops them.

[khun_j]

ohmygod

guess where my daughter was yesterday, attending a b-day party?

right...

i thank for her guardian angel

[toptuan]

sriracha john, on 2008-01-13 00:22:05, said:

The Super Spiral ride will be closed for repairs, and engineers will inspect it for defects. Their findings will be reported to the media later.
- The Nation

I lived next to Thai university engineering students for two years.  The scene?  Partying 24/7.  Never once saw anyone crack a book, and only saw them attend classes at mid-terms and finals weeks.

I wonder if there's any correlation between those who are the gatekeepers of Thailand's engineering safety and their "training?"  Just a distant hunch.  

Edited by toptuan, 2008-01-13 10:14:59.

[Tony Clifton]

scratt, on 2008-01-13 10:03:29, said:

Jockstar, on 2008-01-12 20:19:06, said:

I would go down the slide with the kids , just for their safety.

*cough* That's your story and you're sticking to it! *cough* 'Erm, what exactly were you going to do if the ride collapsed!??! Turn into Superman!?!?!

But seriously, all these people that say they saw this ride and for some time have 'known' it was an accident waiting to happen.. What did YOU do about it then?

It's all very well blaming the kind of selfish idiot who runs or owns these places, and moaning about the government which also doesn't really give two hoots... But what have any of you done to try and solve this problem?

I' m afraid a public forum is the last safe frontier where one can seriously complain without putting his life at risk, especially a foreigner. Do you seriously think the local English language newspapers would publish a reader's complaint about the park and possibly get shot themselves or experience some other form of retaliation? Remember this is a place where business people sometimes have competitors murdered, policemen chop off waitresses arms and shoot tourists.

What did YOU or what will YOU NOW do about it? Spare us the guilt trip

Edited by Tony Clifton, 2008-01-13 10:34:40.

[grantbkk]

The engineers who are responsible for the safe operation of these children's rides will soon be transferring to the Department of Nuclear Reactor Building and with plans found on the INTERNET begin constructing time bombs in several areas along the beaches here in the Kingdom.  Sometimes I wish I were Thai so I could take advantage of the excellent business opportunity and guaranteed huge money maker at each site.  Thai adult entertainment is where the money is.

It is criminal that anyone has to be injured under these circumstances but TIT.  I feel very sorry for the kids that were hurt.

[thaigene2]

JetsetBkk, on 2008-01-13 02:00:50, said:

Galong, on 2008-01-12 20:29:04, said:

"...adding that the Siam Park bought it from a company in Canada."

Expect it to be Canada's fault.  

Of course - they didn't supply a "Maintenance Manual" written in Thai.  

Just like they pinned that air crash in phuket entirely on the foreign pilot. Thailand makes no mistakes. Now repeat that..

[brahmburgers]

sriracha john, on 2008-01-13 09:15:38, said:

What I'm having particular difficulty with is the number injured... apparently only one section of the slide gave way and after the first few kids went through it and ended up getting thrown to the ground... and that the the line of kids that apparently followed the same path seems so excessively high. I would have expected that after the first 2 or 3 kids, word would have been sent to the top of the slide... "Hey, stop sending kids down... they're getting expelled out and breaking femurs."

To get to the high number of injured to 24 makes it sound like a long procession of lemmings....without any timely intervention.

My thoughts also.  Surely at least one adult saw the problem when it started happening - when the first few kids popped out and fell 2 meters.  But adults in Thailand are rarely quick to take dynamic action that's 'outside the box' with what they're familiar with.  In an instant, the first adult seeing the grave problem should have run to the break while yelling as loud as possible to 'stop the children sliding down!".  At the slide break, the adults should have eased the kids down and out of trouble as best as possible.   Knowing how Thais think and act, I can picture delayed responses, a few screams, and precious seconds ticking by while standing, staring (in shock!) while more and more kids plunged to a miserable heap of pain and crying.

It's similar to the people out on the Andaman coast, who first noticed the tide going out very fast and far.  How many realized the grave danger of a tsunami and yelled for everyone to go to higher ground?  My guess is zero people realized the danger at that juncture - and even if they had (like the man who stood taking photos from his porch) they wouldn't want to do anything so un-Thai - like shouting at people to take immediate evasive action.

Edited by brahmburgers, 2008-01-13 10:57:51.

[raro]

The only time I was sh1tscared on a roller coaster was in the old Ratchada amusement park. I expected to go off the rails anytime soon. It has been closed for good shortly after I've been there.

Sad but true...safety standards are a joke around here and we have to adhere to this...

Another short example:

I was doing go-karting at the RCA indoor track few weeks ago. Not sure how that accident exactly happened but in all my years of go-karting this was the first time everb I saw a kart flip over. The driver landed on his head and had to be rushed to the hospital. It took some 30 to 45 minutes until an ambulance arrived. None of the staff seemed to have even basic first aid skills and apart from band aid no first aid material was available.

Won't drive there again!

[geriatrickid]

toptuan, on 2008-01-13 10:11:40, said:

[I lived next to Thai university engineering students for two years. The scene? Partying 24/7. Never once saw anyone crack a book, and only saw them attend classes at mid-terms and finals weeks.

I wonder if there's any correlation between those who are the gatekeepers of Thailand's engineering safety and their "training?" Just a distant hunch.

Are you for real? Sounds like alot of undergrad students.  My 1st year roomie at a uni that coughed up 5 nobel prize winners was a drunk that  would puke on our floor when he came home. He was Canadian. My classmate in a grad class was a Dutch engineer that built flight simulators. He tried to teach me how to roll proper joints (and failed at it.) Ever since there were engineering faculties, there have been partying engineering students. They make up for it in later life  by usually being sedate and boring.  I partied alot in my early years of uni but still managed to walk away with 3 diplomas that aside from looking nice can serve as emergency  bum wipe when I retire.

[farangconnection]

I see the Thai knockers are out in force again. Unfortunately this kind of thing happens quite regually all over ther world,at least once a year. In fact I think two accidents in 20 years is not a bad safttey record. Alton Towers has had three such incidents in the last two years, so I suppose that means that all British workers are w@nkers. No, of course it doesn't. It's just that this new age load of posters on this forum, just happen to live in Thailand, and think all Thais should be thrown out of the country because they are useless. Look at the Canadian murder in Chaing Mai, you bunch had the whole story solved in about ten minutes even though most of it was utter bull-shit. What gets me, is if the majority of you hate Thailand and the Thai people  so much, what are you doing living here. If I hated it I would move. Maybe that's just because I am clever though.

[MrSquigle]

Only good thing about this accident is that it did not break higher up, then kids would have fallen much further and be dead and far more severely injured for life.

The problem with someone running to the aid of these kids and shouting to stop stop etc, is the noise from below....yes the guards at the bottom have radios and yes there is always one guy up the top with a radio, not one guy for each chute...just one guy. They could have radioed to stop, but by the time they realise it has happened, by the time the thai staff usually think to do something and then the guy up top gets the message across, many more kids have jumped in to go and the momentum is immediately hard to stop.

On a day like yesterday, there would have been hundreds of kids on that slide at any one time and the screaming and yelling is impossible to hear anyone from below yelling.

I think with the amount of kids there yesterday that it was lucky only 28 actually got hurt.

I have been on the new rollercoaster twice, I figured that as it was new, should be safe, but I would not go near it in a couple of years time.

I do not think I will be returning to Siam Park again and will take my kids to Singapore or Malaysia for this kind of fun in the future.

Edited by MrSquigle, 2008-01-13 11:33:07.

[geriatrickid]

Yes this  is a  terrible event, but the attachment of all sorts of sinister motives and inventive  explanations is downright silly.   There's a double standard going on here. Amusement parks are dangerous places. It doesn't matter where they are.  Some people may not realize that even with all the safety rules and regulations in the West, similar events happen every year, including water slide injuries and drownings. There isn't a year in regulated USA and Canada that people are not seriously injured, maimed or killed at amusement parks.

This event is not exclusive to Thailand or the "third world".   Are people forgetting that it wasn't too long ago that a major bridge collapsed in the states killing a number of people or that a major overpass collapsed in Canada squashing a few people. Subsequent inspections showed that dozens of other overpasses were close to failure.  A large section of the Montreal downtown core was closed off last year because it started to collapse over the subway system, which is only 30 years old. The Boston "Big Dig" has been an unmitigated disaster, including falling chunks of brand new ceiling concrete that has killed commuters. It will take a decade before the Boston debacle winds its way through the courts.  The London tube is the scene of daily breakdowns and fires, and on and on it goes.    For all the rules and regulations in place in the west, the injuries and fatalities still happen.

I am astounded by one person's position in particular that the Thai park operators are expected to immediately admit responsibility and the failure to do so is somehow indicative of the corrupt thais.  Does anyone honestly believe that's the response in the west?  Can anyone cite one western operator taking immediate responsibility for a tragic event in the past five years?

The first rule that an implicated party must follow in the west is to stay silent and to not admit responsibility. If the individual has an insurance policy, an admission of liability can be deemed to have prejudiced the insurer's position and void the insurance contract. In the west it is up to the appropriate judicial bodies to assign liability. When events like this happen at the large amusement parks in the west (remember the girl that had her legs severed on a ride last summer?) the parks remain silent and let  legal counsel speak on their behalf. The fact that the Thai park has offered to cover medical expenses so quickly is something that would not be done in the west.  The references to insurance being there to respond immediately are bunk. An insurance policy covers legal liability to pay compensatory damages. That means that one has to be found legally liable by a court. An insurer just doesn't cough up the money unless it can obtain releases and even with those in the west, there can still be litigation.



I am  not saying everything was peachy at the park, or that the park was safe, but surely, one should not attach twisted "cultural" explanations to management actions which are not too different than those in the west, particularly with the smaller regional fair and carny operators. A prudent person should avoid these places, even though most of us, including me, do not.

[marquess]

farangconnection, on 2008-01-13 04:07:39, said:

I see the Thai knockers are out in force again. Unfortunately this kind of thing happens quite regually all over ther world,at least once a year. In fact I think two accidents in 20 years is not a bad safttey record. Alton Towers has had three such incidents in the last two years, so I suppose that means that all British workers are w@nkers. No, of course it doesn't. It's just that this new age load of posters on this forum, just happen to live in Thailand, and think all Thais should be thrown out of the country because they are useless. Look at the Canadian murder in Chaing Mai, you bunch had the whole story solved in about ten minutes even though most of it was utter bull-shit. What gets me, is if the majority of you hate Thailand and the Thai people  so much, what are you doing living here. If I hated it I would move. Maybe that's just because I am clever though.

Nowhere is perfect but the difference with say Siam Park and Alton Towers is that they learn from their mistakes, and adhere to set safety standards, that isn't too much to ask for is it when otherpeople's lives are at stake!  Therefore those who are failing to do that no matter where they are deserve to suffer the disapporbation of the public, as do the owners of Siam Park, accidents happend everywhere but this one happened in Thailand that is what is being discussed on this forum.

[thaigene2]

farangconnection, on 2008-01-13 11:07:39, said:

I see the Thai knockers are out in force again. Unfortunately this kind of thing happens quite regually all over ther world,at least once a year. In fact I think two accidents in 20 years is not a bad safttey record. Alton Towers has had three such incidents in the last two years, so I suppose that means that all British workers are w@nkers. No, of course it doesn't. It's just that this new age load of posters on this forum, just happen to live in Thailand, and think all Thais should be thrown out of the country because they are useless. Look at the Canadian murder in Chaing Mai, you bunch had the whole story solved in about ten minutes even though most of it was utter bull-shit. What gets me, is if the majority of you hate Thailand and the Thai people  so much, what are you doing living here. If I hated it I would move. Maybe that's just because I am clever though.

Oh look it appears the "I'm a Thai fan and you're not brigade is back at work --  telling us to f-off home"

I doubt many people (if any here) "hate Thailand and the Thai people" - most (including me) love the place and "most" of the people - and many of us have thai kids who we certainly don't hate. Personally I just "hate" to see how a fairly wealthy minority, controls 90% of the economy, seems accountable to no one - even when -and especially when - things like this happen.

You think the place will get shut down? You think anything at all will happen (I mean anything that will "really" happen to the owners who are clearly liable for this..)? What would happen at Alton Towers, mate? Or the London Eye -- if a car fell off and bounced into the Thames?

The longer you live here the clearer all this becomes - it is the Wild West. It's not something you notice in the first two or three years of living here. Eventually though you realise there is no law and order and only a thin veneer of any kind of democracy that serves the needs of the majority (like an education system that teaches only the elite kids to develop enquiring minds while the other 95% get fed gruel to keep them docile - and not checking the bolts on a water slide, or the drainage off the runways of a new airport, or whether the wheels were bolted onto a bus, it goes on and on).

It means you have to be wary of EVERYTHING here all the time. That wears you down...and yes, eventually it may lead to moving "home" if that will result in greater peace of mind. But it needn't and that's the thing most of find depressing and worth positng about. But then again yhou're more clever apparently.

[meemiathai]

farangconnection, on 2008-01-13 12:07:39, said:

I see the Thai knockers are out in force again. Unfortunately this kind of thing happens quite regually all over ther world,at least once a year. In fact I think two accidents in 20 years is not a bad safttey record. Alton Towers has had three such incidents in the last two years, so I suppose that means that all British workers are w@nkers. No, of course it doesn't. It's just that this new age load of posters on this forum, just happen to live in Thailand, and think all Thais should be thrown out of the country because they are useless. Look at the Canadian murder in Chaing Mai, you bunch had the whole story solved in about ten minutes even though most of it was utter bull-shit. What gets me, is if the majority of you hate Thailand and the Thai people  so much, what are you doing living here. If I hated it I would move. Maybe that's just because I am clever though.

555
The first post after 64 posts!

I am amazed!  Aren't you people fed up yet?  Complaining about safety standards in Thailand?  Do you also go back into farang histories and complain about safety standards 100 yrs ago in farangland?  This is Thailand!  Or is it not?  It is a developing country!  What do you expect?  I would say I think the safety standard in thailand is way above what I would have expected from a developing country.  Take a look at China!

Helmets?  Do you wear them when skiing?  Wear your bloody helmets!

Would you find it strange if you don't see lamborghinis in the jungles of Africa?  Do you also bash those Africans not wearing shoes?  

Absolutely amazed!

By the way, isn't taking risks the main point of going to amusement parks?

[meemiathai]

marquess, on 2008-01-13 12:22:36, said:

farangconnection, on 2008-01-13 04:07:39, said:

I see the Thai knockers are out in force again. Unfortunately this kind of thing happens quite regually all over ther world,at least once a year. In fact I think two accidents in 20 years is not a bad safttey record. Alton Towers has had three such incidents in the last two years, so I suppose that means that all British workers are w@nkers. No, of course it doesn't. It's just that this new age load of posters on this forum, just happen to live in Thailand, and think all Thais should be thrown out of the country because they are useless. Look at the Canadian murder in Chaing Mai, you bunch had the whole story solved in about ten minutes even though most of it was utter bull-shit. What gets me, is if the majority of you hate Thailand and the Thai people  so much, what are you doing living here. If I hated it I would move. Maybe that's just because I am clever though.

Nowhere is perfect but the difference with say Siam Park and Alton Towers is that they learn from their mistakes, and adhere to set safety standards, that isn't too much to ask for is it when otherpeople's lives are at stake!  Therefore those who are failing to do that no matter where they are deserve to suffer the disapporbation of the public, as do the owners of Siam Park, accidents happend everywhere but this one happened in Thailand that is what is being discussed on this forum.

Peoples' lives are at stake in every bloody corner of the world!  What are your tactics?  

[meemiathai]

Quote

(like an education system that teaches only the elite kids to develop enquiring minds while the other 95% get fed gruel to keep them docile - and not checking the bolts on a water slide, or the drainage off the runways of a new airport, or whether the wheels were bolted onto a bus, it goes on and on).

Are you saying a farang kid would check the bolts on a water slide back home in farangland?

I would guess that a thai kid especially from a poor family will more likely be looking out for his own safety when on his own than a farang one.

[marquess]

meemiathai, on 2008-01-13 04:36:19, said:

marquess, on 2008-01-13 12:22:36, said:

farangconnection, on 2008-01-13 04:07:39, said:

I see the Thai knockers are out in force again. Unfortunately this kind of thing happens quite regually all over ther world,at least once a year. In fact I think two accidents in 20 years is not a bad safttey record. Alton Towers has had three such incidents in the last two years, so I suppose that means that all British workers are w@nkers. No, of course it doesn't. It's just that this new age load of posters on this forum, just happen to live in Thailand, and think all Thais should be thrown out of the country because they are useless. Look at the Canadian murder in Chaing Mai, you bunch had the whole story solved in about ten minutes even though most of it was utter bull-shit. What gets me, is if the majority of you hate Thailand and the Thai people  so much, what are you doing living here. If I hated it I would move. Maybe that's just because I am clever though.

Nowhere is perfect but the difference with say Siam Park and Alton Towers is that they learn from their mistakes, and adhere to set safety standards, that isn't too much to ask for is it when otherpeople's lives are at stake!  Therefore those who are failing to do that no matter where they are deserve to suffer the disapporbation of the public, as do the owners of Siam Park, accidents happend everywhere but this one happened in Thailand that is what is being discussed on this forum.

Peoples' lives are at stake in every bloody corner of the world!  What are your tactics?  

Unnecessarily at risk!

[meemiathai]

marquess, on 2008-01-13 12:51:00, said:

meemiathai, on 2008-01-13 04:36:19, said:

marquess, on 2008-01-13 12:22:36, said:

farangconnection, on 2008-01-13 04:07:39, said:

I see the Thai knockers are out in force again. Unfortunately this kind of thing happens quite regually all over ther world,at least once a year. In fact I think two accidents in 20 years is not a bad safttey record. Alton Towers has had three such incidents in the last two years, so I suppose that means that all British workers are w@nkers. No, of course it doesn't. It's just that this new age load of posters on this forum, just happen to live in Thailand, and think all Thais should be thrown out of the country because they are useless. Look at the Canadian murder in Chaing Mai, you bunch had the whole story solved in about ten minutes even though most of it was utter bull-shit. What gets me, is if the majority of you hate Thailand and the Thai people  so much, what are you doing living here. If I hated it I would move. Maybe that's just because I am clever though.

Nowhere is perfect but the difference with say Siam Park and Alton Towers is that they learn from their mistakes, and adhere to set safety standards, that isn't too much to ask for is it when otherpeople's lives are at stake!  Therefore those who are failing to do that no matter where they are deserve to suffer the disapporbation of the public, as do the owners of Siam Park, accidents happend everywhere but this one happened in Thailand that is what is being discussed on this forum.

Peoples' lives are at stake in every bloody corner of the world!  What are your tactics?  

Unnecessarily at risk!

I am also unnecessarily poor.

[fishhooks]

"Kids"  to an amusement park

"Anyone"  to a bus

Great risks for anyone here!

[peterjohn]

ratcatcher you made a good point but you missed the point look at the chain of resonsibility the parents are just as much to blame as the owners of the park
trust me I dont condone what happened but people need to take more responsibilty for there actions
when they do things will sadly start to turn around and become westernised
not a good thing but if they mean to inprove there life style it must happen  :(