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[chrisyork]

The actual bridge is really only the tourist freindly tip of the iceberg. The project was to build a supply route into Japanese occupied Burma of which only the section to Nam Tok is still in use. The engineering is quite heavy with many deep cuttings through solid rock and shelves in cliffs above the river. To get the whole thing in perspective take a trip up to Nam Tok on the train, realise it's only a part of the line and then reflect that, in round numbers, one person died for every sleeper (or tie for Americans) in the track today. And note that the vast majority of casualties were asian, so again the allied war cemetry is just the tip of the iceberg.

Chris

[Kan Win]

chrisyork, on 2008-11-09 17:33:13, said:

The actual bridge is really only the tourist freindly tip of the iceberg. The project was to build a supply route into Japanese occupied Burma of which only the section to Nam Tok is still in use.

The engineering is quite heavy with many deep cuttings through solid rock and shelves in cliffs above the river.



To get the whole thing in perspective take a trip up to Nam Tok on the train, realise it's only a part of the line and then reflect that, in round numbers, one person died for every sleeper (or tie for Americans) in the track today. And note that the vast majority of casualties were asian, so again the allied war cemetry is just the tip of the iceberg.

Chris

[benjamat]

Just a thought.

We have rememberence coming up tomorrow.

Is there a rememberence day for the japanese war in the same way as european war ?

[prodriver]

Could I just point out to "tommyj4", "Carib" and "IMA_FARANG" that no Thais died constructing the railway into Burma. Plenty of Tamils, Burmese and Malays did but not Thais. Remember that Thailand was allied to Japan during the war.

[nonthaburial]

I was up in Kanchanburi yet again last weekend, this time with a Chinese lady, her genuine grief and non stop tears at the cemetary made me realise that such horrors are not bound by borders.

Unfortunately it was a large tour group of elderly Europeans who really let the side down sloppily dressed, smoking and noisy. They were very firmly put in their places by the Thai Cemetary Warden- Well done to him.

Final sour note was at the River Kwai restaurant/shop next to the brisge where my companion was sold a DVD of the Bridge over the River Kwaimovie and was promised it was an original for 300 Baht.

She got it back to China to find that only the first 30 minutes of the movie was burnt onto the DVD   B**tard

If anone can tell me where I can get a decent copy in Bangkok I woul appreciate it

[CockneyGit]

Quote

Sort of off topic but not really...

Is there a service at teh town cemetary or further up the line in November?

If anyone has any details I would love to make the trip

There's a service every year on 11th November (Armistice Day) at Hellfire Pass, the most (in)famous section of the Death Railway. This year was as moving as ever with the ex POWs giving their accounts and memories of events. Always a wonderful day of remembrance.

There's also events to mark ANZAC Day at the Pass on 25th April every year, mainly to honour Australian and NZ personnel, however all people are welcomed.

Lest we forget!

[Kan Win]

CockneyGit, on 2008-11-28 17:20:15, said:

Lest we forget!

Still not forgotten as I live there at week-ends



Win

[prodriver]

benjamat, on 2008-11-05 00:45:23, said:

seonai, on 2008-02-20 12:36:55, said:

It was built by Japanese POWs as far as I am aware. Many, many, many POWs died during the construction of the bridge

This is the original small wooden bridge of which only a small section remains downstairs in the museum.

I had a real laugh the last time I was there watching all the tourists taking pictures of the steel bridge. most did not even see the real jap bridge built by prisoners which is hidden away somewhat in the museum

Actually 'seonai', very, very few POW's died constructing the two bridges on the outskirts of Kanchanaburi as this was a fairly easy stretch compared to the conditions suffered further up country.
As I've mentioned before 'tommyj4', the Asian labour used on the construction of the railway were made up of mostly Tamils, Burmese and Malays.....not Thais.
And finally 'benjamat' both the wooden and steel bridges were constructed using Japanese POWs and Asian labour....not just the wooden one. The wooden one was completed by February, 1943 and the steel one was completed just 3 months later.

[madjbs]

Unfortunately, seonai won't be getting your message as she sadly passed away a year or two ago.

[IMA_FARANG]

Sorry, guys, but much of what you're posting here is smpley wrong.
The Bridge over the River Kwai is non existant....because in fact there then was no River Kwai bridge.
About 1960 a bridge which was built by a Japanese company as part of WW2 reparations by a Japanese company was desinated as the River Kwai bridge memorial by the then Thai government. They then changed the name of that river to the Khwae Yai...which sounds a lot like the movie title "The Bridge over the River Kwai", doesn't it?
In fact the actual river the two bridges were built over is a tributary of the Mae Klong and in the 1940's would simply have been known as part of the Mae Klong.
Two bridges were built, and both were destroyed by allied bombers during WW2 bombing raids...never by any commando raid.
When the movie became popular, the Thais were faced with the problem of tourists coming to see the bridge...but all that was left was some cement supports from the 2nd (cement) railroad bridge...the first bridge was made of wood and was totally destroyed in the war.
So the Japanese added to the old supports and put tracks across that river so there could be a bridge to show the tourists. That's why the Thais renamed it the River Kwai MEMORIAL Bridge...but over the years that memorial part has been forgotten and it is shown to tourists as the River Kwai Bridge.
The actual Bridge(s) were built by Allied POWs AND Asain "volunteers"...including Thais. Many of the locals became "volunteers" because the Japanese refused to allow them to grow food...and gave them food to work on the construction of the bridge. That local area was designated as a security area and anyone moving around in it was regarded as either an escapee or a possible person helping escappes. In both cases...they were to be shot, If a local Thai was found to be aiding or helping any escapee, he and his FAMILY also could be shot also.
Much of the work force was Asian...including Malaysians and Chinese/Singaporian nationals (as they would be called today).
I had a Dutch friend, born originally in Indonesia when it was contolled by the Dutch. He was actually taken there to work by the Jaoanese.
In the late 1950's when the movie was being made the English producers sent people to Thailand to interview him and get his story as background for the movie. He told them to go F--k themselves.
He told me the British officers controlled the camp, and regularly took food from the other Alied prisoners...and that's why he wouldn't help them with their movie.
I don't know if that is really a fact or not...but I do know he had little use for the Brits...especially the officers.

[prodriver]

I will agree with you 'IMA_FARANG', much of what the guys on here are posting is simply wrong....including yourself, I'm afraid.

I was surprised to read what you said about the local 'volunteers' not being able to grow food. I had to check first with THE expert (Rod Beattie)  before I wrote this reply but I wasn't surprised to learn that there was no way the Japanese could interfere with the domestic situation in Thailand and prevent them from growing food. I don't know where you got that info from.

Regarding Thais working on the railway, there was an agreement between the Thais and the Japanese for the Thais to construct the rail bed from Nong Pladuk to Kanchanaburi and a truck road from Kanchanaburi towards the Three Pagodas but due to the Thai's procrastination the Japanese took over the whole construction project.

By the way, during the construction of the two bridges and the adjacent section of railway nine POWs died. There were 1,500 British and 1,000 Dutch POWs plus Japanese engineers involved in the bridge construction. However, in May 1943 the Tha Makham Camp became a large hospital camp for men being shipped back down the line and many more died at that time.


Hope this helps towards putting the record straight.

[Frank La Rue]

Kan Win, on 2012-01-31 18:19:30, said:

CockneyGit, on 2008-11-28 17:20:15, said:

Lest we forget!

Still not forgotten as I live there at week-ends


YOU MAKE ME CURIOUS KAN WIN - I RECOGNIZE THE VIEW NAD THE BUILDINGS ON BOTH SIDES OF THE RAIL LINE WELL, I MAKE SURE TO GO THERE AT LEAST ONCE EVERY TIME I AM IN KANCHANABURI WITH FAMILY - INCLUDING A LUNCH ON TH FLOATING RESTAURANT. I THOUGHT YOU LIVE A FEW KM FURTHER UP? DO YOU MEAN YOU STAY IN THAT IMMEDIATE AREA, IN ONE OF TH BUILDINGS THERE FOR WEEKENDS?
I TRY TO STAY IN FELIX HOTEL WHEN WE CAN - WIFEY HAS A FRIEND WHO IS THE PURCHSING MGR THERE AND SHE GIVES US 50% DISCOUNT. WE ARE VERY FAMILIAR WITH THE DISCO-BOATS AS WELL BUT GENERALLY DON'T FEEL TOO ANOYED BY THHEM



Win