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[sriracha john]

"PAD is warning this government the political crisis will be worse than in 2006 if it continues to whitewash the charges against Thaksin," PAD spokesman Suriyasai Takasila said. "Thousands will take to the streets again if Thaksin returns and does not face trial in court in accordance with the law."

- Associated Press

[Ricardo]

sriracha john, on 2008-02-26 12:15:04, said:

He also warned the PAD not to stage any violent activity against Thaksin's return, because it could dampen hope for an improved economy.

So without Thaksin's safe & un-protested return, the PPP-led coalition government might fail, to deliver upon all their pre-election promises to improve the economy ? Well that's a new excuse, anyway ! Full marks for originality & creativity.

[sriracha john]

Ricardo, on 2008-02-26 13:40:38, said:

sriracha john, on 2008-02-26 12:15:04, said:

He also warned the PAD not to stage any violent activity against Thaksin's return, because it could dampen hope for an improved economy.

So without Thaksin's safe & un-protested return, the PPP-led coalition government might fail, to deliver upon all their pre-election promises to improve the economy ? Well that's a new excuse, anyway ! Full marks for originality & creativity.

With an extra special gold star for hypocrisy & audacity...

PM's Office Minister Jakrapob:



who was arrested and charged as a leader and an instigator of this:



and this:



is now warning the victims of violence like this:



and this:



NOT to use violence in their protests...

[chownah]

Quote

Chalerm: Obstructing Thaksin return may be illegal

of course he is right, it is illegal.
chownah

[Insight]

Utterly polarized Thai people, Chownah.

Amongst the people I know, the hatred for Thaksin is very much still there. They are sick to their stomach with the way this has turned out, especially given the credibility of the ruling PM, and have no faith in the views of at least half the population being represented fairly. Patience with people who will sell the country out at 200 baht a pop is also at an all time low.

I hate melodramatic posts sprinkled with doom and gloom, but optimism is in short supply amongst the locals I hear from.

[chownah]

Quote

The instigator and leader of a riot is warning others not to be violent???????????

Yes, of course, its his job to warn them, then it is his job to supress them if they turn violent...thats how it works. Seems to me that its not difficult to understand. Riots are often instigated specifically so that the authorities will cause blood to flow which arouses the emotions of yet greater masses...its the martyr thing....sick...but sometimes effective. In case you don't know...the way the game works is that if he doesn't warn them then they can say the violence came without warning...but since he's warned them he can feel free to act and then after the violence he can say, "I warned you!" That's the way the game is played......maybe you don't like this game?....if not then my suggestion is to not follow current events so closely...if you follow current events closely in Thailand it is almost inevitable that you will see this game played...if you don't want to see it then don't look.

Chownah, you caloused idiot...you talk as if this was a game and you are a cheerleader...how insensitive you are to the awful treatement blah blah blah....and besides your not really striking enough to be a cheerleader.

Sorry to seem so flippant....this is serious business....but it is not a secret how it works so might as well try to keep a clear mind free from emotional disturbance so that one can see clearly what is happening and come to some understanding....or not.

Chownah

[chevykanteve]

BREAKING NEWS

Army chief urges all sides to accept Thaksin return


(BangkokPost.com) - Army chief Gen Anupong Paojinda has urged all sides to accept the imminent return of ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra so that he can fight corruption charges against him.


He also warned of the possibility that a third party may seek to create unrest if Mr Thaksin returned.


"So far we have detected no suspicious activity that may point to possible violence," he said. "Personally, I don't think that there will be anti-Thaksin protests."


He stressed that it is the police's priority to ensure public orderliness but if military assistance is needed, the government would first have to approve of the plan.

Edited by chevykanteve, 2008-02-26 17:22:24.

[Johpa]

plachon, on 2008-02-26 09:25:51, said:

Johpa, on 2008-02-25 15:52:42, said:

Their only interest, especially Sondhi, is that there not be a another PM like Thaksin who refused to share the pie to their own peculiar standards of appropriateness. All the groups still hold that old school Thai belief that politics is all about kin muang.

I think you do a disservice to many in the PAD, if not most. What evidence do you have that people like Suriyasai or Pipob have ever gin muang themselves or supported others to?

Quite curious Johpa, as you normally come across as having a good grasp on Thai politics, but this time you've lost me.

I of course have no evidence about specific people having kin muang. I did attend a talk by Sondhi last year that leads me to believe that his hostility towards anything smacking of "populist" policies and his clear disdain for the rural poor make him little different than the countless political leaders before him, although he did disavow any claims to being a politician. But perhaps kin muang politics is no longer the appropriate metaphor as the corporate age emerges in Bangkok providing new layers of complexity and shadows to political corruption. I would be willing to give PAD more respect if they would kick Sondhi's sorry derriere out of the picture.

[ratcatcher]

[ ]]

I am wondering if The Big Boss will divorce Weeping Willy if he comes back and gets back into politics. as I believe she once said she would?
What's all this talk of violence and riots. We should be looking forward to the media frenzy at Suwanapoom on Thursday when "He" returns to earth. Think of the family, Pantong ,Pintong & Pingpong. They have been without Daddy for too long.

[bulmercke]

The PAD are on the march again, but they'll play it safe at first.

Perhaps a forum or workshop that will enable them to access and gauge the level of dissatisfaction and support amongst its core members concerning the probable return of Thaksin and other recent disturbing developments.

Then - a short while later - there will enivatably be the first public gathering of PAD supporters for a long time and this will surely be the acid test.

The 'authorities' under this mafia-led - Thaksin - Samak - gung-ho - hang 'em high - shoot first - totally lawless - without shame - corrupt - aggressive - violent outfit will undoubtedly come down hard - very hard - on any PAD protesters brave enough to show any public support for the PAD.

It's goin' to be nasty. Revenge is on the cards. The 'Night Of The Long Knives' comes to mind.

Events in BKK could even mimic events in Rangoon a few months ago. Sporadic and spontaneous small public gatherings of anti-Thaksin supporters in unannounced locations that are tenaciously and ruthlessly put-down by the terrible Samak and his newly found army cohorts and sycophants.

Count me in!

[BigSnake]

They are preparing for the return of the Big Guy. Bring it on big fella!!

[younghusband]

bulmercke, on 2008-02-26 22:27:21, said:

The PAD are on the march again, but they'll play it safe at first.

Perhaps a forum or workshop that will enable them to access and gauge the level of dissatisfaction and support amongst its core members concerning the probable return of Thaksin and other recent disturbing developments.

Then - a short while later - there will enivatably be the first public gathering of PAD supporters for a long time and this will surely be the acid test.

The 'authorities' under this mafia-led - Thaksin - Samak - gung-ho - hang 'em high - shoot first - totally lawless - without shame - corrupt - aggressive - violent outfit will undoubtedly come down hard - very hard - on any PAD protesters brave enough to show any public support for the PAD.

It's goin' to be nasty. Revenge is on the cards. The 'Night Of The Long Knives' comes to mind.

Events in BKK could even mimic events in Rangoon a few months ago. Sporadic and spontaneous small public gatherings of anti-Thaksin supporters in unannounced locations that are tenaciously and ruthlessly put-down by the terrible Samak and his newly found army cohorts and sycophants.

Count me in!

I don't do links but if anyone wants a break from overexcited farang fantasy exemplified by the post above read today's editorial in the Bangkok Post for a measured and sensible opinion on the PAD's current position.

[jayjayjayjay]

h90, on 2008-02-26 11:57:29, said:

britmaveric, on 2008-02-25 20:21:19, said:

no sarcasm here, deadly serious - PAD should try smth novel and win an election. Anything else is simply undemocratic and hinders the govt from functioning.

when do we have a free and fair election?

h90 raving again! had them now leave if you not happy!

[ando]

PAD, (AKA People Against Democracy these days), have gone off the rails.

Even at their peak, PAD had support from only a tiny fraction of Thai voters. Eg: 100,000 protesters in Bangkok back in '06 represented only 0.3% of the countries voters.
Their street protests in 2006 may have been impressive by the sheer numbers who turned out. But behind the high profile publicity seeking front they don't have much actual support as was proved at the ballot box this year.

They are just another minority political pressure group with a narrow (anti-Thaksin) agenda and appealing to a narrow section of the voting community concentrated in Bangkok.

PADs glory days are over. Their followers who were taken in by their rhetoric back in 2006 have now deserted them en mass after the fiasco they created with the subsequent coup.

Now the PAD leaders are stirring the pot again trying to get back in the limelight, but they really have no windmills to tilt at this time and very little following. They should just go home and stop their whining if they want to avoid making absolute fools of themselves.


http://www.bangkokpo...2008_news14.php

"Outside the PAD, there are no important voices that oppose Mr Thaksin's return to Thailand. In fact, there are strong reasons to support his homecoming, beyond the fact he is a Thai citizen with the rights and duties of all Thais. The first is that it will show the strength of the nation, following elections that put Thailand back on the track to democracy. The second is the undoubted confidence that the courts are perfectly capable of handling each and all charges laid against the ex-premier already, and in the future. The rule of law is a thousand times better than the would-be PAD solution of street protests and intimidating crowds, which are likely to provoke more opposing throngs. The PAD's simplistic demand to keep Mr Thaksin out may indicate that the former pro-democracy group has last track of just what democracy entails.

At this moment, Thai voters and citizens have made a fresh start. The PAD's decision to go ''back to the future'' is not just stubbornly unimaginative, but troubling. The country is hoping and working for a solution to the divisions in the country. Citizens are demanding the government focus on the real problems, including the economy. Even if full reconciliation is not immediately achieved, Thais can work together to solve their problems.

The PAD wants to restart the unrest, divisions and threatened protests immediately. It is completely wrong.

When the anti-Thaksin groups came together in 2005 and began their cries of ''Thaksin auk pai'' (get out) they christened their coalition the People's Alliance for Democracy. Today, they have at least two of those words wrong. The group represents no popular will, nor is it interested in the democratic process. It is not difficult to determine that the vast majority of the nation wants Mr Thaksin to face justice, and wants to see if the Samak Sundaravej administration will run an efficient, accountable government. All members of the PAD need to take a cooling-off period and give democracy and the law a chance."

[chevykanteve]

EDITORIAL [today's Bangkok Post: partial copy]

No need for protest yet

With its flip-flop on the return of Thaksin Shinawatra, the self-styled People's Alliance for Democracy has put the proverbial cart far ahead of the horse. Mr Thaksin, it appears, is going to set foot on Thai soil tomorrow morning for the first time since September 2006.

The PAD, whose leaders and member factions have been demanding the ex-premier face the courts, suddenly has switched. On the shakiest grounds imaginable, the group now has demanded the ex-premier be kept away because they are not certain the justice system is now free of interference. The group has threatened public protests, including a return to street demonstrations, to make its point. But the PAD is wrong. For now, the group owes Mr Thaksin, the government and the country a long period of silence.

It is difficult to know just what motivated the fractured PAD to reassemble on Monday morning and issue a stirring call to street protest again. Leaders had openly avoided each other for months. In the dying days of the unlamented military regime that the PAD street protests helped to shatter, the PAD was unseen. Popular Campaign for Democracy secretary-general Suriyasai Katasila managed the occasional appearance in the run-up to the Dec 23 election. He consistently promised to give the elections, democracy and the Samak Sundaravej government a chance.

On Monday, something changed that. Suddenly, Mr Suriyasai, PAD founders Sondhi Limthongkul and Maj-Gen Chamlong Srimuang were all at the same table, reading a fiery statement against Mr Thaksin. They dismissed the elected government as ''the Thaksin regime''. Suddenly, the PAD feels that the government was meddling in the media, and interfering in the justice system.

..... ..... ..... ..... ..... ..... .....

Outside the PAD, there are no important voices that oppose Mr Thaksin's return to Thailand. In fact, there are strong reasons to support his homecoming, beyond the fact he is a Thai citizen with the rights and duties of all Thais. The first is that it will show the strength of the nation, following elections that put Thailand back on the track to democracy. The second is the undoubted confidence that the courts are perfectly capable of handling each and all charges laid against the ex-premier already, and in the future. The rule of law is a thousand times better than the would-be PAD solution of street protests and intimidating crowds, which are likely to provoke more opposing throngs. The PAD's simplistic demand to keep Mr Thaksin out may indicate that the former pro-democracy group has last track of just what democracy entails.

At this moment, Thai voters and citizens have made a fresh start. The PAD's decision to go ''back to the future'' is not just stubbornly unimaginative, but troubling. The country is hoping and working for a solution to the divisions in the country. Citizens are demanding the government focus on the real problems, including the economy. Even if full reconciliation is not immediately achieved, Thais can work together to solve their problems.

The PAD wants to restart the unrest, divisions and threatened protests immediately. It is completely wrong.

When the anti-Thaksin groups came together in 2005 and began their cries of ''Thaksin auk pai'' (get out) they christened their coalition the People's Alliance for Democracy. Today, they have at least two of those words wrong. The group represents no popular will, nor is it interested in the democratic process................

[sriracha john]

jayjayjayjay, on 2008-02-27 14:51:43, said:

h90, on 2008-02-26 11:57:29, said:

britmaveric, on 2008-02-25 20:21:19, said:

no sarcasm here, deadly serious - PAD should try smth novel and win an election. Anything else is simply undemocratic and hinders the govt from functioning.

when do we have a free and fair election?

h90 raving again! had them now leave if you not happy!

The post quoted above constitutes a "raving"????

[Plus]

ando, on 2008-02-27 17:51:02, said:

Its rediculious logic to say that since 36% of the vote went to PPP, then conclude that 36% of people support Thaksin. Just plain distortion.

I think we define distortion differently. From my point of view to claim that 36% of the vote constitutes a majority looks like a clear case of distortion.

As for parties joining the coalition - they all supported populist policies but were clearly anti-Thaksin. Forming coalition on htese terms took about a month, it also took issuing five point demand list as a precondition for joining. These demands were rather clear - drop Thaksin and TRT from the agenda.

And, in case you haven't noticed, PPP complied and gave coalition partners more cabinet posts than their proportion in the parlament. Amnesty for TRT execs has been put on the back burner even before Samak postponed it till the last two months of his rule.

TRT/PPP vote dynamics show a clear trend of sliding from the highest point in 2005 through 2006 and to the last elections.

[Plus]

Speaking of Burma, Thaksin's spokesman (who concurrently serves as a Foreign Minister) said that Thailand will stop talking about democracy and human rights and concentrate on business.

[younghusband]

Plus, on 2008-02-28 09:31:40, said:

Speaking of Burma, Thaksin's spokesman (who concurrently serves as a Foreign Minister) said that Thailand will stop talking about democracy and human rights and concentrate on business.

Correct, and thus reflecting the same shameful Burma policy conducted by all Thai governments over at least two decades.

[Tony Clifton]

Plus, on 2008-02-28 09:31:40, said:

Speaking of Burma, Thaksin's spokesman (who concurrently serves as a Foreign Minister) said that Thailand will stop talking about democracy and human rights and concentrate on business.

"Thailand has no choice but to put national economic interests before human rights concerns in dealing with Burma", Foreign Minister Noppadon Pattama said yesterday.

http://209.85.175.104/search?q=cache:_4gPi...;cd=1&gl=ca

younghusband, on 2008-02-28 09:41:39, said:

Plus, on 2008-02-28 09:31:40, said:

Speaking of Burma, Thaksin's spokesman (who concurrently serves as a Foreign Minister) said that Thailand will stop talking about democracy and human rights and concentrate on business.

Correct, and thus reflecting the same shameful Burma policy conducted by all Thai governments over at least two decades.

So because others did it IN THE PAST, it makes sense for them to perpetuate this policy of business over human rights? Even now in 2008? It would be simpler to say that many deals were made under the Thaksin rule and they're about to get going.

[Plus]

You think Surin Pitsuwan had the same policy when he was Thailand's FM? Even Thaksin wasn't so blunt, he hoped to use business ties with Neu Win and others to change the regime from inside but that backfired, as we know in the hindsight.

[younghusband]

Plus, on 2008-02-28 10:00:54, said:

You think Surin Pitsuwan had the same policy when he was Thailand's FM? Even Thaksin wasn't so blunt, he hoped to use business ties with Neu Win and others to change the regime from inside but that backfired, as we know in the hindsight.

You're right that Surin talked the talk but the substance of Thai policy didn't change.I heard Thaksin talk at a FCCT dinner years ago and he was pretty blunt about Burma then in a very sickening way.As those who have read Handley's book will know.....need I go on?

[Plus]

I'm not sure that the substance of Thai policy didn't change under Surin and Chuan, or they haven't tried to change it and it was only talk.

At one point Chuan let Burmese hostage takers free pass out of the country. Generals were incensed, and so was Burmese government. Second time around there was no mercy but you can't say Democrat policies were as insensitive as Thaksin's, imo.

[chevykanteve]

Bangkok Post (28-February) (partial copy)
ANCHORMAN

Has PAD not hurt the country enough?
M.L. NATTAKORN DEVAKULA


PAD the Sequel: It is like seeing a bunch of disgruntled losers assemble for a purpose which serves only to extend their own existence.


The irrelevant press conference which the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) held this past Monday - their first official notice since temporarily disbanding back in October 2006 - was supposed to signal to all of us politically aware people that the band was once again back together.


What are we to make of this?


Well, you can certainly make the following out of it if you happen to agree with Mr Anchorman here.


After finding himself on the outside of the inner clique that served as Thaksin Shinawatra's closest confidants, Sondhi Limthongkul went on a verbal rampage on national television, knowing full well that his show would be cancelled. On the very day of that cancellation, shirts had already been prepared stamped with the statement: "We will fight for the King." The cancelled show, which grew into a movement attracting several thousand, took to Lumpini Park, in turn allowing people to come out to banter on the latest failings of the Thaksin administration.


Then came a man who, for all intents and purposes, has become a has-been in the political community - Chamlong Srimuang. Also after having found himself on the outside looking in, an unholy alliance was made with young Suriyasai Katasila and his little NGO known as the Campaign for Popular Democracy, activist Piphob Thongchai and union head Somsak Kosaisook, and the wildly irascible academic Somkiat Pongpaiboon. Luckily for these guys, what had been planned for Sept 20, 2006 never took place because we had a military coup the day before that.


Are you ready to read PAD the Sequel?


I'm beginning to hear phrases like "these guys no longer have the legitimacy to come out and protest"; "even if they protest, they won't be able to draw that large a crowd anyway"; "it's a constitutional right to hold an assembly of the marginalised".


I'll go on the record in saying right here that the People's Alliance for Democracy is one of the biggest misnomers in the history of Thai media. The very fact that you even had minor acceptance of this putsch-facilitating group was simply because then-PM Thaksin had so many enemies and had crossed too many influential higher-ups during the first five years of his administration.


The PAD is a not a force for democratic change. It never was and it never will be. The PAD comprises an academic who has managed to capitalise politically on the fame achieved by criticising the former prime minister; a formerly bankrupt self-proclaimed media mogul whose journalistic standards are exemplified in the "Sor 7" column on his website; a plaincloth-wearing "saint-like" former leader of a party which Mr Thaksin once financed; two misdirected activists, and an impressionable young man whose main purpose in life is holding press conferences every Sunday, trying to come up with new verbiage to describe Mr Thaksin's successes.


The PAD isn't a symbol for democratic transition; rather, it is the opposite. It has no respect for electoral mandates, no recognition of decisions made by the populace at the polls, and no understanding of the requirements needed in a developing country that cannot go another day without political stability.


If four consecutive election victories are not enough at this point, I really don't know what will suffice. The landslide victories achieved by the Thai Rak Thai party in 2001, 2005 and 2006 (the last was later nullified), then another win - albeit this one by the People Power party - in 2007, prove that no matter what is said and done, at least half of this country approves of Thaksin Shinawatra.


This statement is regardless of the findings made by the junta-appointed Assets Scrutiny Committee or the upcoming court decisions against the former PM. The dissolution of the country's largest political party, combined with the purging of nearly all major names associated with the Thaksin administration, was supposed to be the ultimate death knell. Yet, it was not.


Is it not time that some of these guys learned you cannot fight with a sustained natural momentum created by the masses? This is a phase - personal popularity or political brand loyalty - that those who wind up on the losing end must learn to deal with under the confines of the rules of the game. Any attempt to sabotage this phenomenon and the concomitant results of free and fair elections will simply reinforce Thailand's image as a semi-authoritarian managed democracy.

...... ....... ....... ....... ....... ....... ....... ....... ....... ....... ....... ....... .......


The PAD never had legitimacy to overthrow a regime or force a prime minister's resignation. Former army chief Gen Sonthi Boonyaratkalin and the invisible grey hand behind him misread 100,000 protesters in September 2006 as a backdrop that in the end only became a false legitimising of the last power grab.


The sequel may read like one of the following scenarios:


- PAD protesters come out. Pro-Thaksin supporters come out. They clash and then the police send both sides home and the government imposes a temporary curfew before normalcy returns.


- PAD protesters come out. Pro-Thaksin supporters come out. The army usurps the conflict to launch a coup and install a new leadership. (The PAD can dream on; this isn't going to happen.)


- PAD protesters come out. No pro-Thaksin supporters show up. The situation drags on until the government peacefully disbands the crowd. A "third hand" throws a bomb to make it look like the government ordered the army to fire on civilians. The PAD claims the move as a rational reason to seek Samak Sundaravej's resignation as prime minister. (The PAD can again dream on; PM Samak is smarter than this.)


- PAD protesters come out. No pro-Thaksin supporters show up. The situation drags on until all protesters eventually leave and go back to their homes and offices to live normal lives, earning money by working like everyone else. The protesters finally learn that street games must end. This is a scenario I personally am dreaming will take place. Perhaps I'm fantasising, too.


At the end of the day, the PAD will do whatever it wants because it is only accountable to its six leaders. You cannot expect an organisation to cease to exist when its very purpose is to exist to cause trouble.


As long as the leader of the Democrat party doesn't waltz over to Phra Arthit road to give Sondhi Limthongkul flowers again; as long as no powers-that-be grant the green light for the PAD to be able to ride roughshod over everyone; as long as the armed forces do not take advantage of the situation, and as long as the newspapers in this capital do not unfavourably gang up on the administration the way they did leading up to Sept 19, 2006 - as long as none of these conditions are satisfied, the PAD Sequel will not draw box-office crowds like its first instalment did.

....... ....... ....... ....... .......

[jumnien]

The PAD openly supported the military coup of 2006 which was comprised of the very same group which massacred students in 1976. They are detestable.