1523 replies to this topic
Posted 2008-02-28 20:03:36
 sunrise07, on 2008-02-28 18:34:56, said:
The PAD openly supported the military coup of 2006 which was comprised of the very same group which massacred students in 1976. They are detestable.
You just made that up. It was Samak, the champion of democracy, who cheered Thammasat massacre,not Sonthi, and certainly not Surayud (whose father was a communist).
Talking about distortion of truth.
Oh, and the actual perpetrators of the violence were upcountry folks, people who still vote for Samak and the likes.
Edited by Plus, 2008-02-28 20:05:10.
Posted 2008-02-28 21:54:35
I'm sure most of us would agree that Thaksin and TRT/PPP are pretty reprehensible, people have a right to choose any as+hole they want to lead them. It's sad that some of you like to fall back on the old 'well stupid people will elect people like this'...I could say (and have) exactly the same about the 40-plus-something-million Americans who re-elected Bush.
But strip away all this righteous farang talk about how thaksin's a fraud, etc (which I think is probably right) and I see a disturbing dark side - it's a venting of right-wing types, who seem to believe that rich people are rich cause they're smarter and poor people are stupid and "need to be controlled" argument....you/they are more scary than Thaksin and his (ironically also right wing) cronies.
Let democracy have its way. Elections will sort things out...maybe not this one, but maybe future ones..If they don't - then have no fear because, eventually, the masses will have their way - as they should. Then all you guys with your "if you don't like it f++k off routine' can take your own advice and go back to America or UK and cry at the momunemtns to Reagan and Thatcher. Okay??
Edited by thaigene2, 2008-02-28 21:58:34.
Posted 2008-02-29 10:47:20
Happy Days are here again.  
Posted 2008-02-29 12:17:07
thaigene2, on 2008-02-28 21:54:35, said: Let democracy have its way. Elections will sort things out...maybe not this one, but maybe future ones..If they don't - then have no fear because, eventually, the masses will have their way - as they should.
What's your time frame for eventually? Burmese next door are in the fifth decade already, and so are Vietnamese, and Chinese, and Singaporeans and countless others.
Once the country turns dictatorial with a single party/person usurping the power, "democracy" is no where to be seen, and it can last for generations. They have elections, too, and so do Cubans. Remember the latest HRW report condemning these sham democracies that rely only on having regular elections?
Or what about Khmer Rouge - truly popular movement for the poor, didn't turn out that well, did it? Would you recommend it as a blueprint for Isan taking over Thailand?
The only difference that matter is in who among 'elites" get to rule. Is it someone like Pol Pot, Suharto, or Tan Shwe, or someone like Lee or Mahathir.
Posted 2008-02-29 13:16:34
Thailand Watch Foundation in Phuket Urges Government to Seriously Look into Thaksin's Corruption Cases
The Thailand Watch Foundation in Phuket declared it will support the anti-Thaksin People's Alliance for Democracy and urged the government to closely monitor Thaksin's alleged corruption cases.
Members of the Thailand Watch Foundation in Phuket province made its first announcement today, declaring their support for the People's Alliance for Democracy following the return of deposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinnawatra to Thailand this morning.
Head of the Phuket Thailand Watch Foundation, Nutjarong Ekpermsab, stated that since the December 23rd general election that empowered the People Power Party-led government of Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej, the hope of easing the national economic and political crises looked bleak.
He criticized the government's policies lean towards the direction of the former Thaksin administration. They aim to support some groups and not the general public.
Nutjaring said this is a matter the government must take into serious consideration. He adds that the corruption cases against the deposed Prime Minister require careful scrutiny under the legal process with no regard to Thaksin's earlier political post as Prime Minister.
The Phuket Thailand Watch Foundation said it will support the People's Alliance for Democracy in fighting against corruption.
- Thailand Outlook
=========================================================================
and in a related development....
Thailand Watch Foundation Member's Disappearance Investigated
The family of Thailand Watch Foundation member Kamon Laosopapan, who disappeared from his home on February 7th, continues their search. So far, the police investigation has detected no traces of the activist.
Kamon Laosopapan is a member of the Thailand Watch Foundation. He played an important role in exposing the alleged corruption in a state-railway land rental case in Kon Kaen's Banpai District. The disappearance was reported on February 7th. Kamon disappeared from his home without a trace.
Last Tuesday, news reporters in Kon Kaen said a local fisherman from Nakorn Panom province informed them that the body of a 50-year-old male was discovered adrift in the Khong River.
The deceased was found with both his hands and legs tied with bruises across his body. After dental records were compared with the remains, it was found that the unidentified man was not Kamon's.
Kamon's family expressed hope that Kamon is still alive and urge police to hurry its investigation. Banpai police Deputy Superintendent, Lieutenant Colonel Panit Chettasing revealed that so far, no traces have been found, adding that Kamon may have been harmed. No suspects have been identified.
The police say that normally Kamon is a man with a candid character. He was an informant in more than ten cases to the police, asking for charges to be filed against state authorities allegedly involved in corruption.
49-year-old Kamon is an alumni of Suankularb School, schoolmate to the People’s Network Against Corruption Chairman Weera Somkhwamkit, and is member of the Thailand Watch Foundation.
- Thailand Outlook
Edited by sriracha john, 2008-02-29 13:21:19.
Posted 2008-02-29 18:41:18
sriracha john, on 2008-02-29 13:16:34, said: Thailand Watch Foundation in Phuket Urges Government to Seriously Look into Thaksin's Corruption Cases
The Thailand Watch Foundation in Phuket declared it will support the anti-Thaksin People's Alliance for Democracy and urged the government to closely monitor Thaksin's alleged corruption cases.
Members of the Thailand Watch Foundation in Phuket province made its first announcement today, declaring their support for the People's Alliance for Democracy following the return of deposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinnawatra to Thailand this morning.
Head of the Phuket Thailand Watch Foundation, Nutjarong Ekpermsab, stated that since the December 23rd general election that empowered the People Power Party-led government of Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej, the hope of easing the national economic and political crises looked bleak.
He criticized the government's policies lean towards the direction of the former Thaksin administration. They aim to support some groups and not the general public.
Nutjaring said this is a matter the government must take into serious consideration. He adds that the corruption cases against the deposed Prime Minister require careful scrutiny under the legal process with no regard to Thaksin's earlier political post as Prime Minister.
The Phuket Thailand Watch Foundation said it will support the People's Alliance for Democracy in fighting against corruption.
- Thailand Outlook
=========================================================================
and in a related development....
Thailand Watch Foundation Member's Disappearance Investigated
The family of Thailand Watch Foundation member Kamon Laosopapan, who disappeared from his home on February 7th, continues their search. So far, the police investigation has detected no traces of the activist.
Kamon Laosopapan is a member of the Thailand Watch Foundation. He played an important role in exposing the alleged corruption in a state-railway land rental case in Kon Kaen's Banpai District. The disappearance was reported on February 7th. Kamon disappeared from his home without a trace.
Last Tuesday, news reporters in Kon Kaen said a local fisherman from Nakorn Panom province informed them that the body of a 50-year-old male was discovered adrift in the Khong River.
The deceased was found with both his hands and legs tied with bruises across his body. After dental records were compared with the remains, it was found that the unidentified man was not Kamon's.
Kamon's family expressed hope that Kamon is still alive and urge police to hurry its investigation. Banpai police Deputy Superintendent, Lieutenant Colonel Panit Chettasing revealed that so far, no traces have been found, adding that Kamon may have been harmed. No suspects have been identified.
The police say that normally Kamon is a man with a candid character. He was an informant in more than ten cases to the police, asking for charges to be filed against state authorities allegedly involved in corruption.
49-year-old Kamon is an alumni of Suankularb School, schoolmate to the People’s Network Against Corruption Chairman Weera Somkhwamkit, and is member of the Thailand Watch Foundation.
- Thailand Outlook
How many members does the Phuket Thailand Watch Foundation have? I bet they'll send thousands to the next PAD gathering, if there is one.
Posted 2008-03-01 23:24:09
Plus, on 2008-02-29 12:17:07, said: thaigene2, on 2008-02-28 21:54:35, said: Let democracy have its way. Elections will sort things out...maybe not this one, but maybe future ones..If they don't - then have no fear because, eventually, the masses will have their way - as they should.
What's your time frame for eventually? Burmese next door are in the fifth decade already, and so are Vietnamese, and Chinese, and Singaporeans and countless others.
Once the country turns dictatorial with a single party/person usurping the power, "democracy" is no where to be seen, and it can last for generations. They have elections, too, and so do Cubans. Remember the latest HRW report condemning these sham democracies that rely only on having regular elections?
Or what about Khmer Rouge - truly popular movement for the poor, didn't turn out that well, did it? Would you recommend it as a blueprint for Isan taking over Thailand?
The only difference that matter is in who among 'elites" get to rule. Is it someone like Pol Pot, Suharto, or Tan Shwe, or someone like Lee or Mahathir.
Well Plus - at least you added Singapore to the list. Well done. But what about Chile under Pinochet, Argentina, Nicaragua, El Salvador, Cuba's dictatorship (prior to Castro), oh -- and wait for it -- Granada -- what the f+ck was THAT all about?
Yep - you're right "the only difference that matter is in who among the 'elites" get to rule" - Guess what? The masses rarely get a chance to rule for very long before Elite Big Brother steps in!
Posted 2008-03-02 10:41:11
Transfers give rise to new group of government critics
Will oppose any Thaksin regime revival
Former Democrat member Chaiwat Sinsuwong will lead a new anti-Thaksin group to monitor work of ministers and join the People's Alliance for Democracy to oppose any attempts to revive the Thaksin regime. His group, named ''The Assembly of People of Thailand,'' was formed in response to increasing worries over recent actions by the People Power Party-led government, especially its transfer of senior officials, during the return of ousted PM Thaksin. "Some people believe the PPP will act as a nominee of the dissolved TRT Party, and its decision to move around these senior officials corresponds with the return of Thaksin,'' said Chaiwat. He said his group would urge the public to monitor the administration led by PM Samak. Chaiwat plans to meet fellow Thaksin critics PAD every Wednesday to discuss strategies to hinder any state attempts to abuse power and interfere with prosecutions underway against Thaksin. The two groups are worried about the government's contentious transfers of senior officials, including DSI Chief Sunai Manomai-udom and National Police Chief Sereepisut Taemeeyaves. The Assembly of People of Thailand will meet Sunai on Tuesday to ask him to file a complaint with the Administrative Court over the unfair transfer.
Continued here:
http://www.bangkokpo...2008_news10.php
Edited by sriracha john, 2008-03-02 10:41:40.
Posted 2008-03-02 14:44:31
sriracha john, on 2008-03-02 10:41:11, said: Transfers give rise to new group of government critics
Will oppose any Thaksin regime revival
Former Democrat member Chaiwat Sinsuwong will lead a new anti-Thaksin group to monitor work of ministers and join the People's Alliance for Democracy to oppose any attempts to revive the Thaksin regime. His group, named ''The Assembly of People of Thailand,'' was formed in response to increasing worries over recent actions by the People Power Party-led government, especially its transfer of senior officials, during the return of ousted PM Thaksin. "Some people believe the PPP will act as a nominee of the dissolved TRT Party, and its decision to move around these senior officials corresponds with the return of Thaksin,'' said Chaiwat. He said his group would urge the public to monitor the administration led by PM Samak. Chaiwat plans to meet fellow Thaksin critics PAD every Wednesday to discuss strategies to hinder any state attempts to abuse power and interfere with prosecutions underway against Thaksin. The two groups are worried about the government's contentious transfers of senior officials, including DSI Chief Sunai Manomai-udom and National Police Chief Sereepisut Taemeeyaves. The Assembly of People of Thailand will meet Sunai on Tuesday to ask him to file a complaint with the Administrative Court over the unfair transfer.
Continued here:
http://www.bangkokpo...2008_news10.php
Mr. Samak, Dr. Thaksin, et al, must all feel very flattered that there are so many new groups, with the same old faces, "monitoring" them. It would be even more productive if some of those old faces took a long look in the mirror and asked themselves what use they are to the majority of the population of this country.
Posted 2008-03-02 19:18:06
Perhaps Dr Thaksin & PM Samak might also, as self-proclaimed 'friends of the poor', ask themselves that same question as well ?
Posted 2008-03-02 20:15:37
Ricardo, on 2008-03-02 19:18:06, said: Perhaps Dr Thaksin & PM Samak might also, as self-proclaimed 'friends of the poor', ask themselves that same question as well ?
The PPP managed to win the last election, didn't it? Details...
Posted 2008-03-02 20:40:46
Winning elections doesn't justify corruption.
Quote Yep - you're right "the only difference that matter is in who among the 'elites" get to rule" - Guess what? The masses rarely get a chance to rule for very long before Elite Big Brother steps in!
Glad you understand that. If you look at it as a choice between two evils, than Thaksin is the worst one.
I, however, see it as a natural order of things. Elites always rule, masses always follow. It doesn't work any other way. Even if masses get control, they soon choose some new elites as their new masters.
The main difference is - who gets to rule, Mahathir or Suharto. Asia doesn't offer any other choices. Dennis Hasbert from "24" was a cool president but you don't get people like that here. You get Marcoses, Lees, Hun Sens, and now Thaksin, who maid money from the farmers, sold out to Singapore and invested in England. Great fuc_king leader.
Businesmen do not have principles, they are not qualified to lead, take responsibility or make sacrifices, they look only after their own and they are simply incapable of understanding any higher values than money. Even Samak is a better leader than Thaksin in that sense.
Posted 2008-03-02 21:15:37
Quote Businesmen do not have principles, they are not qualified to lead, take responsibility or make sacrifices, they look only after their own and they are simply incapable of understanding any higher values than money.
Plus,
Think about this.....is this really what you intended to say? It seems so wrong in so many different ways.
In Thailand I think it makes more sense to say, "Politicians do not have principles, they are not qualified to lead, take responsibility or make sacrifices, they look only after their own and they are simply incapable of understanding any higher values than money."
Chownah
Quote What's your time frame for eventually? Burmese next door are in the fifth decade already, and so are Vietnamese, and Chinese, and Singaporeans and countless others.
I believe that Vietnam presently has the most democratic gov't that it has ever had in its entire history....more people's opinions are now taken into account than ever before...I think......also.....Vietnam is now having the most prosperous period in its entire history if you measure prosperity by the amount of wealth produced and consumed within a country and how widespread the wealth is distributed. The Vietnamese people have never had it so good...even people who fought against the communists are saying this....this is the most properous time in Vietnam ever.
Chownah
Quote It was Samak, the champion of democracy, who cheered Thammasat massacre,
Did Samak cheer the massacre? There has been some confusion about Samak's role in the massacre with some people suggesting that he was officially involved....now that it seems that he had no official standing at the time and was working for a right wing media (was it newspaper or was it radio?) people here have backed off from accusing him of the violence directly. Now you are accusing him of having cheered the massacre so excuse me if I'm sceptical of this claim since other claims (don't know if you made them or if it was someone else so I'm not accusing you of having made the claims) as to Samak's culpability were wrong...so I'm wondering where you got your information that Samak cheered the massacre....I'd really like to get some copies or transcript of what Samak had to say....do you have access to some of these?
Chownah
Edited by chownah, 2008-03-02 21:30:45.
Posted 2008-03-02 22:45:13
chownah, on 2008-03-02 21:15:37, said: Quote Businesmen do not have principles, they are not qualified to lead, take responsibility or make sacrifices, they look only after their own and they are simply incapable of understanding any higher values than money.
Plus,
Think about this.....is this really what you intended to say? It seems so wrong in so many different ways.
In Thailand I think it makes more sense to say, "Politicians do not have principles, they are not qualified to lead, take responsibility or make sacrifices, they look only after their own and they are simply incapable of understanding any higher values than money."
No, I meant businessmen, and I didn't mean Thailand in particular. Real leaders lead their people and their countries through crises and wars. Businessmen profit from them. That's what Thaksin did in 1997, incidentally.
Quote What's your time frame for eventually? Burmese next door are in the fifth decade already, and so are Vietnamese, and Chinese, and Singaporeans and countless others.
I believe that Vietnam presently has the most democratic gov't that it has ever had in its entire history....more people's opinions are now taken into account than ever before...I think......also.....Vietnam is now having the most prosperous period in its entire history if you measure prosperity by the amount of wealth produced and consumed within a country and how widespread the wealth is distributed. The Vietnamese people have never had it so good...even people who fought against the communists are saying this....this is the most properous time in Vietnam ever.
It's a communist country, for crying out loud. I can't believe we need to discuss this. They don't even have meaningful elections and they don't tolerate any political opposition. If you think it's a suitable political model for Thailand, you'll have to physically exterminate about 15 millions of Thais to bring this kind of unity.
Vietnam's time to deal with these issues will come sooner or later. If common folk won't make noise, there will be serious power struggle in upper echelons. It's inevitable.
Quote It was Samak, the champion of democracy, who cheered Thammasat massacre,
Did Samak cheer the massacre? There has been some confusion about Samak's role in the massacre with some people suggesting that he was officially involved....now that it seems that he had no official standing at the time and was working for a right wing media (was it newspaper or was it radio?) people here have backed off from accusing him of the violence directly. Now you are accusing him of having cheered the massacre so excuse me if I'm sceptical of this claim since other claims (don't know if you made them or if it was someone else so I'm not accusing you of having made the claims) as to Samak's culpability were wrong...so I'm wondering where you got your information that Samak cheered the massacre....I'd really like to get some copies or transcript of what Samak had to say....do you have access to some of these?
It's not unusual for you to display complete ignorance of even the basic facts. Go to wikipedia article, it's all covered in there.
Edited by Plus, 2008-03-02 22:49:51.
Posted 2008-03-03 10:36:20
Plus, on 2008-03-02 22:45:13, said: It's not unusual for you to display complete ignorance of even the basic facts. Go to wikipedia article, it's all covered in there.
Yes, I am completely ignorant of the basic facts of this issue and admit it openly and freely. There is nothing wrong with being ignorant....that can easily be changed if one is open minded by simply learning the facts....I'm very fortunate that I am not closed minded since being closed minded gets in the way of dispelling igorance by learning the facts and tends to perpetuate ignorance.
Which wikipedia article (unbiased source??....maybe...maybe not) are you referring to?
Chownah
...yes...Vietnam is a communist country (more or less) but my comments still stand....in the not too distant future the Vietnamese economy will almost assuredly become more productive than the Thai economy....especially note that there is more democracy in Vietnam now then there has ever been in its history in that the decision making process is now spread among a larger number of people from a more varied background than ever before.
Chownah
Edited by chownah, 2008-03-03 10:42:39.
Posted 2008-03-03 12:00:38
chownah, on 2008-03-03 10:36:20, said: Plus, on 2008-03-02 22:45:13, said: It's not unusual for you to display complete ignorance of even the basic facts. Go to wikipedia article, it's all covered in there.
Yes, I am completely ignorant of the basic facts of this issue and admit it openly and freely. There is nothing wrong with being ignorant....that can easily be changed if one is open minded by simply learning the facts....I'm very fortunate that I am not closed minded since being closed minded gets in the way of dispelling igorance by learning the facts and tends to perpetuate ignorance.
Which wikipedia article (unbiased source??....maybe...maybe not) are you referring to?
If you think you don't know the facts maybe you should refrain from posting opinions, too.
Go to wikipedia and type "Samak" in the search field. There's only one article to choose from.
And you should have done it BEFORE you write anything about him, not after. It denigrates the value of your contributions, both past and future ones.
Posted 2008-03-03 12:45:32
Plus, on 2008-03-03 12:00:38, said: chownah, on 2008-03-03 10:36:20, said: Plus, on 2008-03-02 22:45:13, said: It's not unusual for you to display complete ignorance of even the basic facts. Go to wikipedia article, it's all covered in there.
Yes, I am completely ignorant of the basic facts of this issue and admit it openly and freely. There is nothing wrong with being ignorant....that can easily be changed if one is open minded by simply learning the facts....I'm very fortunate that I am not closed minded since being closed minded gets in the way of dispelling igorance by learning the facts and tends to perpetuate ignorance.
Which wikipedia article (unbiased source??....maybe...maybe not) are you referring to?
If you think you don't know the facts maybe you should refrain from posting opinions, too.
Go to wikipedia and type "Samak" in the search field. There's only one article to choose from.
And you should have done it BEFORE you write anything about him, not after. It denigrates the value of your contributions, both past and future ones.
I read the article you suggested and nowhere did it claim that Samak cheered the massacre as you have asserted. Am I missing it somewhere in the article....or why do you claim that Samak cheered the massacre and then claim this article shows that?
Chownah
P.S. I think you should not expect me to have checked out every site on the internet before posting on a subject!!!...(and especially not Wikipedia for such a heavily spun topic!!).....and in this case it seems that even if I had read your reference it would not have lead me to accept the notion that Samak cheered the massacre......do you have any information that indicates that he cheered the massacre?...if not then I request that you either retract your statement or indicate that it is conjecture...or please explain what is up....I can't figure where you get it from....I'm open minded and would gladly accept evidence to support what you have claimed but I need to see some evidence for this....but maybe it actually does say that Samak cheered the massacre in the article and I'm missing it...I'll go read it again and report back later with an update if time allows.
Chownah
P.P.S. You wrote, "If you think you don't know the facts maybe you should refrain from posting opinions, too."..........being ignorant of the facts does not seem to have stopped others from posting opinions.
Chownah
P.P.P.S. I went and looked at the article again and this seems to be the relevant part:
"Accounts from witnesses, documents and published reports clearly identify Samak as chief operator of "Armored Car" radio program, an ultra-right wing broadcast that constantly expounded anticommunist and pro-right propaganda. Samak used this program to stir up hatred against Thammasat University students, and intentionally disobeyed the Prime Minister's orders at the time to "stop creating divisiveness." In defending the return of 1973-ousted General Prapas over the radio, Samak told listeners that students demonstrating against the dictator's return were committing suicide."
It doesn't say that Samak cheered the massacre....where do you get this notion from?
Chownah
Edited by chownah, 2008-03-03 12:52:32.
Posted 2008-03-03 13:40:38
chownah, on 2008-03-03 12:45:32, said: It doesn't say that Samak cheered the massacre....where do you get this notion from?
sorry to butt in here, but i thought i'd add my 2 cents.
"Cheering" means to encourage with shouts. (one dictionary definition)
"stirring up" is a type of encouragement, and "broadcasting" is a type of shouting.
eg. "samak cheered the massacre"
... "samak encouraged the massacre by shouting to the people"
... "samak stirred up the massacre by broadcasting over the radio"
The choice of word is accurate enough, not misleading IMO... and in the bigger scheme of things certainly no need to make a big fuss over, chownah. IMO.
Edited by traveller5000, 2008-03-03 13:45:32.
Posted 2008-03-03 13:47:02
"...an ultra-right wing broadcast that constantly expounded anticommunist and pro-right propaganda. Samak used this program to stir up hatred against Thammasat University students.."
What else did you expect? A photograph of Samak dancing with pom poms?
Despite alleged heavy spin I doubt you'll find any evidence to the contrary. He was always described as a cheerleder for the right wing militias, everywhere.
Posted 2008-03-03 13:54:42
Yawn.. what a bunch of losers in PAD.. nobody want them. Or need them. If they want to be someone, maybe they should have run in the election?
Posted 2008-03-03 13:54:57
Plus, on 2008-03-03 13:47:02, said: What else did you expect? A photograph of Samak dancing with pom poms? 
Posted 2008-03-03 14:20:36
Polsevogn, on 2008-03-03 13:54:42, said: Yawn.. what a bunch of losers in PAD.. nobody want them. Or need them. If they want to be someone, maybe they should have run in the election?
In a way, they did, having got elected yesterday as the sole Bangkok Senator. 
Posted 2008-03-03 15:05:41
Plus, on 2008-03-03 13:47:02, said: "...an ultra-right wing broadcast that constantly expounded anticommunist and pro-right propaganda. Samak used this program to stir up hatred against Thammasat University students.."
What else did you expect? A photograph of Samak dancing with pom poms?
Despite alleged heavy spin I doubt you'll find any evidence to the contrary. He was always described as a cheerleder for the right wing militias, everywhere.
Stirring up hatred for some group does not necessarily mean you would be willing to cheer a massacre....it does not mean he was going.."yeaaaay...three more killed....yes...good work....go kill some more....." Many politicians might stir up hatred for the opposition but it does not mean that they want the opposition killed by any stretch of the imagination.
You are clearly reading your own meaning into the Wikipedia article....it clearly does not indicate that Samak cheered the massacre....nor that he cheered for the massacre either before, during, or after. Quite frankly I think that even in Thailand if he had done this on the radio there would have been legal action taken against him....of course I could be wrong.
I'm still looking for evidence that Samak cheered the massacre. You said it was in the Wikipedia article and clearly it is not. I am beginning to believe that this cheering only happened in your imagination...if I am wrong then please provide the source for this view...or admit that it is just your opinion and is not supported with evidence....or something.........stirring up hatred does not necessarily mean that you cheer a massacre....there are plenty of radio talk shows in the US and I assume elsewhere which demonstrate this.
Chownah
Posted 2008-03-03 17:46:12
Plus, on 2008-03-02 20:40:46, said: Winning elections doesn't justify corruption.
Quote Yep - you're right "the only difference that matter is in who among the 'elites" get to rule" - Guess what? The masses rarely get a chance to rule for very long before Elite Big Brother steps in!
Glad you understand that. If you look at it as a choice between two evils, than Thaksin is the worst one.
I, however, see it as a natural order of things. Elites always rule, masses always follow. It doesn't work any other way. Even if masses get control, they soon choose some new elites as their new masters.
The main difference is - who gets to rule, Mahathir or Suharto. Asia doesn't offer any other choices. Dennis Hasbert from "24" was a cool president but you don't get people like that here. You get Marcoses, Lees, Hun Sens, and now Thaksin, who maid money from the farmers, sold out to Singapore and invested in England. Great fuc_king leader.
Businesmen do not have principles, they are not qualified to lead, take responsibility or make sacrifices, they look only after their own and they are simply incapable of understanding any higher values than money. Even Samak is a better leader than Thaksin in that sense.
Winning elections means nothing at all --in your philosophy-- if the "elites" are not dominating. In Namen des Fuhrers.
Posted 2008-03-03 17:52:44
Plus, on 2008-03-03 12:00:38, said: chownah, on 2008-03-03 10:36:20, said: Plus, on 2008-03-02 22:45:13, said: It's not unusual for you to display complete ignorance of even the basic facts. Go to wikipedia article, it's all covered in there.
Yes, I am completely ignorant of the basic facts of this issue and admit it openly and freely. There is nothing wrong with being ignorant....that can easily be changed if one is open minded by simply learning the facts....I'm very fortunate that I am not closed minded since being closed minded gets in the way of dispelling igorance by learning the facts and tends to perpetuate ignorance.
Which wikipedia article (unbiased source??....maybe...maybe not) are you referring to?
Go to wikipedia and type "Samak" in the search field. There's only one article to choose from.
And you should have done it BEFORE you write anything about him, not after. It denigrates the value of your contributions, both past and future ones.
What a pompous, impolite and petty response. YOU are the biggest "denigrator" of your own cause on this thread.
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