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[Flatouthruthefog]

bri1guy, on 2008-03-02 22:08:48, said:

What's next ? No more thai Chili peppers, maybe switching to jalapenos!!!

authentic Thai food is the most delicious food in the world, in my opinion !!!

Yes, and also one of the most nutritious!
Around 10 to 12 years ago some high falutin American nutrition boffin came to Bangkok to deliver a speech in front of the great and the good on the benefits of healthy food.
After a long obsequious welcome by the chairman, the large audience applauded politely and he stood up at the lecturn.
"Ladies and gentlemen" he boomed, "I bring you a vital message from America about your Thai cuisine!" Dramatic pause.
"Do NOT change a thing!" And he sat down.
It was only after a few seconds of silent amazement that the audience got the message and gave him rousing applause!
Then he stood up again and got on with his speech!
Pretty impressive attention grabber, eh?
True too, I think.
Up here in the north, my only worry concerns all the chemicals I hear that the orange and other fruit farmers pump into their plants, the ground, the local streams etc etc etc........................

[geriatrickid]

As others have stated, Thai farmers can't simply cut their prices. Sure maybe that holds for the few large "factory" farms where they can perhaps use more chemicals to boost yields (and also produce similar chinese quality) but I think most of the farmers that produce these crops are already near subsistence levels. I suppose if Thailand adopted the Chinese model where the army owned large chunks of the industrial and agriculture base they might be able to pull it off. However, this would require the use of near slave like conditions for rural workers and the use of prison labour. I haven't heard of any Thai workers being kidnapped to work in mines or brick factories as was the case in China etc. If we want the Thai people in rural areas to have a better standard of living, that means we have to accept paying a bit more. I'm willing to pay more. I just want the big box stores to give me the frickin choice.

[CuriousGeorge77]

By that logic we'll all be eating super processed foods imported from 3000 km away all the time.  But really,  the production methods aren't the same.  China is actively depressing worker salary in many sector to keep export prices down.  Do you really want a race to see who can pay the workers the least amount of money?  


And don't forget to add in the pollution factor of the vehicles required to transport it all the way,  and also the pollution factor and other associated risks (such as disease) created by the giant factory farms operations.  

dumball, on 2008-03-02 20:52:48, said:

tingtong, on 2008-03-02 12:32:07, said:

"Garlic from Cambodia, Laos, Burma and some parts of China is similar in size to Thailand, so it's difficult for consumers to tell the difference. The point is, imported garlic is a lot cheaper than local garlic," she said.


How is this?
As far as I know thai farm workers aren't overpaid yet. So, where this lots of extra cost coming from then?

Some years ago i asked this question of a Canadian fruit grower , he said"It costs more to grow in Canada " My response " Am American and a Canadian plant apple trees on thier farm , it rains and the sun shines in both countries , fruit finaly grows on both the American and Canadian trees , people pick the fruit and you offer it for sell ouside your farms , why is yours more expensive ? " "Well , i uh "" . Then it costs the American farmer to send it to Canada , who is trying to get rich quick ? I think this also applies to Thai garlic growers , drop the price and the Chinese will be gone .

[CuriousGeorge77]

geriatrickid, on 2008-03-02 13:56:05, said:

 Garlic from china was described as having qualities along the lines of cardboard

They must use the same chefs ...  
http://www.slashfood.com/2007/07/12/chines...from-cardboard/

[waveydavey]

The advantages of living in a village - the girlfriend has just come back from the market with a few days worth of garlic. Grown 500 metres away, transport costs zero, unless you count wear and tear on the farmers bicycle....

Edited by waveydavey, 2008-03-03 07:29:17.

[pampal]

cclub75, on 2008-03-02 14:33:13, said:

pampal, on 2008-03-02 15:08:07, said:

I like chinese garlic

And you certainly like too the heavy metals and the chemicals provided by the chinese garlic.


As a good french, I can only hate the chinese garlic, that has no taste. We have real one, strong and spicy, in the south of France, where garlic is broadly used in cocking.

Therefore I support the "garlic campaign" in Thailand. We need to fight back !

I like Heavy Metal, especially Metallica. 

Rock ON


btw  What is a good French?
from the garlic you mentioned, it's more like smelly French

[jrbkk64]

I would not be too sure about the quality of the local raw material. Rules and regulations are very flexible when it comes to the raw material on the local market. Thailand is a major agricultural produce exporter and most if not all the best (meaning grown/bred in a controlled environment) raw material is exported. Trust me I know. We battle daily with our suppliers and buy 10's of millions THB per month!! Especially local seafood, tangerines/oranges, any meats bought at fresh markets in the neighbourhood etc are of suspicious quality most of the time!! Greed being the main driver of this.

[jrbkk64]

jrbkk64, on 2008-03-03 16:18:17, said:

I would not be too sure about the quality of the local raw material. Rules and regulations are very flexible when it comes to the raw material on the local market. Thailand is a major agricultural produce exporter and most if not all the best (meaning grown/bred in a controlled environment) raw material is exported. Trust me I know. We battle daily with our suppliers and buy 10's of millions THB per month!! Especially local seafood, tangerines/oranges, any meats bought at fresh markets in the neighbourhood etc are of suspicious quality most of the time!! Greed being the main driver of this.

By the way: I live and work in Thailand and obviously do eat the local food, although I am not a big fan mostly because many (thai) restaurants use very poor/old raw material.

[john b good]

farang prince, on 2008-03-02 13:20:31, said:

Jeeeesus. First it was the inflation of the baht. Then it was the return of Thaksin. And now the garlic is a goner. Beam me up Scotty. I'm outta here.

'

economy, business or first class ???

[Martin]

As 'chownah' said, in post #24,:

"Us poor rural villagers always have the best garlic, and peppers, and eggplant, and lettuce, and corn, and squash, and tomatoes, and ...and...and...and...

Local organic produce is best!!!! Words to live by."

My wife and I also have our own ricefields, and, from our garden, lemon grass, chillies, onions, tomatoes, bananas, mangos, coconuts, tamarinds, papaya, and three fruits that seem to have only unpronounceable-by-me Thai names.
'Aunty' across the soi has a market garden behind her house and sells us salad, flowers, and some more things to put in curries.

I'd be poor old man, pretty skint, just getting through Third Age, in an England city; but it is a rich Second Youth for me in this Isaan village.

Lucky are we who have ended up settled in Ban Nork.

[astral]

Surely authentic Thai food contains local garlic??

I cannot see the people of the countryside rushing to the supermarket to by imported cloves.

[Shah Jahan]

Up here in the North...

in 2006 a few folks made a killing by buying fresh garlic for 10-15bht a kilo (not sure of exact numbers)
and selling it dried later in the year for 40 bht plus a kilo

what then happened in 2007 is all the rest of the villagers saw this and thought they could rinse and repeat (not that easy)
and bought up fresh garlic for 15-20bht a kilo
(also alot more people planted)

however when the time came to sell, the price of garlic plummeted and most of them could barely get 7-8bht a kilo
economics is not that simple for the villagers.

[Maizefarmer]

tingtong, on 2008-03-02 13:32:07, said:

"Garlic from Cambodia, Laos, Burma and some parts of China is similar in size to Thailand, so it's difficult for consumers to tell the difference. The point is, imported garlic is a lot cheaper than local garlic," she said.


How is this?
As far as I know thai farm workers aren't overpaid yet. So, where this lots of extra cost coming from then?

How is it possible - well, its a problem not confined to garlic, it affects the Thai dairy and rice industries as well - for much the same reasons: the ability of other countries to produce far more competively than the average Thai farmer.

The net yields for garlic per rai or acre eqivilant in China is much higher than it is in Thailand. Same thing for rice production.

How is it Australian dairy farmers can milk a cow, process the milk (into powder or UHT liquid), then package it, then transport to Thailand, then wholesale it, then retail it - and do all this for less than it costs us in Thailand to milk a cow and deliver the milk to a co-op - never mind the processing, packaging and then distribution for retail?

How is it possible?

Because, and I hate to say it but its largely true, the Thai ag industry is hopelessly inefficient right through the production chain - from planting, to crop yields to processing and logistics. Thailand lags behind in terms of efficency and productivity some 10years compared to China and most other Asian/Pacific countries.

As much as we like to harp on about the quality of local produce, the reality is that the consumer by & large is cost conscious before they are "quality" conscious: side by side a clove of Thai garlic and a clove of Chinese garlic look much the same, as does a kg of Thai rice, or kg or milk powder when compared to the eqivilant from China or Australia.

We can idealise the subject and think of it in micro terms, and sure, there will always be some who will consciously go out selecting quality above price, but those who can afford to do so are in the minority and will stay a minority as long as a free market exists if not because of choice, then because the wholesalers and ever larger growing chain-stall type supermarkets will continuelly be looking for greater profits to satisfy shareholders - which means (in a free regional market) they will buy from which ever supplier in which ever country can offer them a product at a cheaper price. e.g. Brazlian papaya in Tesco Lotus last Saturday beng sold at the same price as Thai papaya - quality: don't know, haven't eaten it yet but it looks and feels much the same as a Thai Papaya - but bigger.

Just how did Tesco/Lotus manage to get Papaya from Brazil to Thailand and sell it fresh for the same price as papaya grown in Thailand? Because Brazilian farmers produce so much more per/rai or acre for so much less than the Thais do - and thats the problem: at a macro scale even if the quaility was/is the same, unless Thailand can produce as efficiently as other countries, suppliers will source from elswhere.

[Gumballl]

I found this article that came out in 2003. Apparently US growers from the "Garlic Capitol of the World" (Gilroy, California) were also feeling the pinch from Chinese exports.

Here's the link: http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn41...24/ai_n14553344

[Deesurin]

The only "real" Thai food I've ever tasted came from my wife's cooking in our kitchen. She won't "eat out" because she can't see if it's clean. My 'job" was to go to the Surin open market every day to buy the vegies and moo for our supper, always freash, always a fun trip.
I lost 25lbs eating like a horse . Garlic was local grown and a major part of the feast,as was most ,if not all of the vegies. It would be a cold day in He-l before we would eat chinese garlic... cheap is not better.

[sunreader]

As with many other cheap goods produced in China, this garlic is fake.

[Payboy]

Quote

Thai garlic is better in taste and medicinal properties, such as preventing cancer.

the nobel prize committee seem to have missed this one in their usual hurry...

[astral]

sunreader, on 2008-03-04 06:04:37, said:

As with many other cheap goods produced in China, this garlic is fake.

[dee123]

chownah, on 2008-03-02 22:38:23, said:

Us poor rural villagers always have the best garlic, and peppers, and eggplant, and lettuce, and corn, and squash, and tomatoes, and ...and...and...and...

Local organic produce is best!!!! Words to live by.

Chownah

agree with chownah......its either in rural thailand or in my wife's suitcase coming back to uk

[Plus]

I think in city markets you can't tell whether garlic is local or Chinese. They buy it from big distributors, not grow themselves.

Any one knows how to spot local garlic?

[Pond Life]

Shah Jahan, on 2008-03-04 00:53:34, said:

Up here in the North...

in 2006 a few folks made a killing by buying fresh garlic for 10-15bht a kilo (not sure of exact numbers)
and selling it dried later in the year for 40 bht plus a kilo

what then happened in 2007 is all the rest of the villagers saw this and thought they could rinse and repeat (not that easy)
and bought up fresh garlic for 15-20bht a kilo
(also alot more people planted)

however when the time came to sell, the price of garlic plummeted and most of them could barely get 7-8bht a kilo
economics is not that simple for the villagers.

Just to add to "Shah Jahan's" info, which I agree with from local knowledge.

In my village they started pulling this years garlic crop a couple of weeks ago, the big buyers (I dont know who they are) are offering 3 baht per kilo for fresh garlic, very few farmers are selling, anyone who can, is storing/drying it in the hope that prices will rise.

[Gary A]

Just yesterday I was up on the mountain at my favorite watering hole. A pickup truck pulled in. The truck was loaded with garlic. He was selling it for 20 baht per kilo. I don't know how he could afford to harvest it it for 20 baht per kilo plus drive around trying to sell it.

[Tony Clifton]

Thaksin's rushed FTA+greedy prciks willing to screw their own country's farmers by importing cheap Chinese crap.

[Johpa]

Pond Life, on 2008-03-08 11:16:30, said:

In my village they started pulling this years garlic crop a couple of weeks ago, the big buyers (I dont know who they are) are offering 3 baht per kilo for fresh garlic, very few farmers are selling, anyone who can, is storing/drying it in the hope that prices will rise.

The big buyers are the large multinational agriculture corporations, ranging from ADM to Thailand's own CP group. They control the pricing and they ensure that the farmers around the world make as little money as socially acceptable. Thus for fresh produce it is imported product from the plantations of South America or the government controlled lands of China with most of the labor provided by modern day serfs, as in servitude. Independent farmers trying to eke out a minimally decent living in Thailand, even by rural Thai standards, are simply unable to compete. Sure there might be some slightly higher yields of some products in China. But the garlic yields up north were usually petty healthy. But it is the far vaster acreage combined with the minimal labor costs elsewhere that make the difference.

For decades the independent garlic farmers up north were able to sell their product directly to stores and to the traditional markets, often bypassing corporate distributors. This did not sit well with the folks down in Bangkok and thus less expensive Chinese (homeland) garlic was allowed in with no tariff. The importers are willing to take a small profit for a few years to knock out the local little guys because, well because it is the old doggy lick rule, because they can. It was also the rule that allowed Sam Walton to be so successful in the beginning by allowing store managers to run at a loss for the first year to force the competition out of business and then raise prices back up. (Walmart has morphed into a much different business today) .

Farmers around the world are rarely allowed to make any profit in our modern corporate "free" market. Read up on the illegal tactics and price fixing by ADM and their overseas competitors and ponder as to whether regional Ag-business people are not engaged in similar shenanigans in Asia.

[Jandajoy]

naka, on 2008-03-02 14:41:04, said:

cclub75, on 2008-03-02 14:33:13, said:

pampal, on 2008-03-02 15:08:07, said:

I like chinese garlic

And you certainly like too the heavy metals and the chemicals provided by the chinese garlic.


As a good french, I can only hate the chinese garlic, that has no taste. We have real one, strong and spicy, in the south of France, where garlic is broadly used in cocking.

Therefore I support the "garlic campaign" in Thailand. We need to fight back !

Apart from doing that with it ... do you ever eat it ?

Naka.

LMFAO