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[AnotherATM]

Local communities, like the small farming village I live in near Chiang Rai, and Thai culture in general, will suffer immensely at the hands of these companies. It's the start of the process of removing people from the land and making them dependent on the monopolies such as the demon in question, as is the case in all 'developed' nations. They have recently opened a small branch in the nearby town and, while the car park is rarely at half capacity, it won't be long before they resort to such dirty tricks as running free bus services from local villages to fill their store, as they have all over rural England. When I left the UK the small town I lived in for 20 years had around 40% of the shops it had when I arrived there thanks to outfits like Tescos, Sainsburies, Homebase, Halfords and Do-It-All. No more butchers, bakers, hardware shops or post office. Only one greengrocer where there used to be three. Do all those people now work for these leaches? I don't think so.
I started boycotting the big out-of-town nationals in the UK years before I left the place. Unfortunately the damage is done and it's a difficult task just finding someone who would be prepared to give it up in that country. Now, since they arrived just 15Km away, I actively discourage locals from going to Tescos, to the extent that I have anti-Tescos posters up around the village. My partner has done a wonderful job of explaining what has happened in England and the West. Tell a farmer or market trader that their livelihood is under serious threat, especially from a Farang multinational, and they want to do something about it. Word spreads, and Thai villagers, mostly being related to each other, tend to pull together at times of need. I don't want Thailand to become like England. I think everyone who cares for Thai culture and Thai people can do something along the same lines. Every Little Helps! (I'd forgotten that that was Tescos slogan until after I'd typed it... Honestly!)

[AnotherATM]

That said, check this out. http://www.guardian....2/supermarkets1

[JetsetBkk]

waveydavey, on 2008-03-18 19:58:23, said:

Ironically the owner of my local store drives 45 km to the nearest Lotus every week to buy her stock for the shop!

Nothing wrong in that - buy cheap at Lotus, add a mark-up for costs and profit margin, and sell to people who don't/can't go to the supermarket.

Once these stores are open, they will be packed. It's what the majority of people want. And then there's the 7/11 for the things you run out of in between trips to the supermarket.

[plachon]

AnotherATM, on 2008-03-18 21:06:48, said:

Local communities, like the small farming village I live in near Chiang Rai, and Thai culture in general, will suffer immensely at the hands of these companies. It's the start of the process of removing people from the land and making them dependent on the monopolies such as the demon in question, as is the case in all 'developed' nations. They have recently opened a small branch in the nearby town and, while the car park is rarely at half capacity, it won't be long before they resort to such dirty tricks as running free bus services from local villages to fill their store, as they have all over rural England. When I left the UK the small town I lived in for 20 years had around 40% of the shops it had when I arrived there thanks to outfits like Tescos, Sainsburies, Homebase, Halfords and Do-It-All. No more butchers, bakers, hardware shops or post office. Only one greengrocer where there used to be three. Do all those people now work for these leaches? I don't think so.
I started boycotting the big out-of-town nationals in the UK years before I left the place. Unfortunately the damage is done and it's a difficult task just finding someone who would be prepared to give it up in that country. Now, since they arrived just 15Km away, I actively discourage locals from going to Tescos, to the extent that I have anti-Tescos posters up around the village. My partner has done a wonderful job of explaining what has happened in England and the West. Tell a farmer or market trader that their livelihood is under serious threat, especially from a Farang multinational, and they want to do something about it. Word spreads, and Thai villagers, mostly being related to each other, tend to pull together at times of need. I don't want Thailand to become like England. I think everyone who cares for Thai culture and Thai people can do something along the same lines. Every Little Helps! (I'd forgotten that that was Tescos slogan until after I'd typed it... Honestly!)

Well done that man! I fully agree with your sentiments and applaud your actions. It is so easy to be lulled into a false sense of security / economy by the (rapacious supermarket chains, and then only realising too late that what one thought was cheap and good choice, has actually left one with little choice but to travel a much further distance to shop from one single retail outlet.

Where previously you could chose between 5 bakers, 6 butchers and 10 grocers, now you just have the one under a single roof. Great if you live right next door, but for those that live some distance away and are old, frail, non-drivers, etc., can mean great loss of convenience and increased expense on travel just to do their weekly shopping. Then, as there is no longer any competition to worry about, the supermarket is at liberty to put up their prices as they see fit. In many towns in UK, even if there are 2 or 3 supermarkets in any one town, they still in most cases have an effective monopoly position under the broader definition of the word. In other words, their market share is sufficient to not have to worry about the competition. So now they spread their tendrils into every other corner of the market place and squeeze out every other retailer they can - insurance, garden centres, internet, credit, etc. Soon the consumer does nearly all their shopping with one company and when they get their customer loyalty card, then BINGO! they hooked, line and sinker. Zero choice and can be squeezed like a tube of toothpaste for every penny, baht, cent they earn. That is the ultimate goal of these places, and Tescos is one of the most predatory in this game in the UK.

So yes, good for anyone in Thailand who stands up to them and fights back! Posters in windows, boycotts, camping up in trees to be bulldozed for the newest mall! Go for it!

(By the way, you posted the same Guardian link as I had earlier. Nevermind - its good reading.)

[Plus]

What happens here is that Tesco and others, especially Macro, have effectively become suppliers of small shops and all the trouble is stirred by suppliers who were squeezed out, not mom&pop shops themselves.

They protested specifically against Tesco Express outlets last year but not against 7-Elevens who outnumber them twenty to one.

People who were sued have clearly destorted the reality, for whatever reasons.

[BigSnake]

Way to Tesco, good luck

[AnotherATM]

plachon, on 2008-03-19 09:57:23, said:

(By the way, you posted the same Guardian link as I had earlier. Nevermind - its good reading.)

Yeah, sorry about that, I didn't see it until after I'd posted. I get a little impatient to say something once I'm involved, and anything regarding Tesco gets my blood close to boiling very quickly.
I'm now using the 'Every little helps hurts' slogan on the posters.


Power to the people!

[plachon]

emperor_tud, on 2008-03-19 11:30:49, said:

Quote

but for those that live some distance away and are old, frail, non-drivers, etc., can mean great loss of convenience and increased expense on travel just to do their weekly shopping.

Erm, all these big stores deliver.

They even offer online shopping in the UK.

So more choice and more convenient!

No wonder the 'mom and pop' stores can't compete.

Of course they do! It's all part of the process of monopolisation process! And when they've destroyed the opposition by using all these gimmicks like "free delivery" or "free buses" or "cheapest fuel" , then they will be at liberty to charge what the hel_l they like. Which has been borne out in US and UK already in so many towns. There is no choice but Tescos for some people. Like it or lump it. Hopefully, Thailand will never get as bad as that and people will resist before the corporate takeover is complete.

[Plus]

It's not like people had a choice before Tesco. Small shops got their stuff from the same suppliers/wholesalers in the area, and those suppliers lacked the power to negotiate with big vendors. Tesco changed that, and, hopefully, competition will continue to keep it on its toes.

There are at least four major superstore chains competing with each other on the national level, even if Tesco or Big C monopolise one particular city it doesn't reflect on their prices as those are set nationwide.

[clausewitz]

plachon, on 2008-03-21 08:14:41, said:

Of course they do! It's all part of the process of monopolisation process! And when they've destroyed the opposition by using all these gimmicks like "free delivery" or "free buses" or "cheapest fuel" , then they will be at liberty to charge what the hel_l they like. Which has been borne out in US and UK already in so many towns. There is no choice but Tescos for some people. Like it or lump it. Hopefully, Thailand will never get as bad as that and people will resist before the corporate takeover is complete.

Where I live super large TESCO and Carrefour branches are opposite each other. I walk out of tesco, straight onto an overbridge and into Carrefour. Outside both are hundreds of small stall owners. But you want to get rid of Tesco- how will that give me more choice?

[kmart]

The nature of big business is similar to that of big politics. Assimilate, and stamp out diversity, then you control the market. Yuo would hope that checks and balances are in place to curb the worst extremes of this...?

But I think Tesco have cut out a lot of middle-men and uncompetitive suppliers to cause the rumpus that they have, which to me is no bad thing here in LoS, btw.

[Plus]

Tesco are not the angels, but the anger here is misplaced, plus a lot of public opposition is manipulated by competing business interests.

Superstores, suppliers, and small shops can coexist and complement each other, if there's a genuine interest in reaching a solution.

[singa-traz]

plachon, on 2008-03-21 15:27:18, said:

I think you're being a bit naive Plus. Tescos whole modus operandi, whether in UK or Thailand, is to knock out the competition one by one and eventually dominate the marketplace. I

Because Tesco's competitors don't have the same objective? Who is naive?

Do you know how many 7-11 there are in Thailand and how many more is planned in the next two-three years?

[Samuian]

singa-traz, on 2008-03-21 16:05:17, said:

Do you know how many 7-11 there are in Thailand and how many more is planned in the next two-three years?

On Samui there is one Tesco/Lotus, one Macro and recently a BigC opened... but almost every day a new 7/11 or "Family Mart" opens doors... guess there must be well over 10 dz. of them by now!

By whom 7/11 is run and stocked?

And this guy is a golf buddy of whom?

[plachon]

singa-traz, on 2008-03-21 09:05:17, said:

plachon, on 2008-03-21 15:27:18, said:

I think you're being a bit naive Plus. Tescos whole modus operandi, whether in UK or Thailand, is to knock out the competition one by one and eventually dominate the marketplace. I

Because Tesco's competitors don't have the same objective? Who is naive?

Do you know how many 7-11 there are in Thailand and how many more is planned in the next two-three years?

Who is sueing who for 16 million quid? When the boot is on the other foot, then I can maybe feel some sympathy for the individual sueing the mega-corporation down on its knees begging for mercy.

Go back to the original post and consider the circumstances cooly and calmly. If this happened in UK, there would be a revolution and Tescos would be fire-bombed from here to Aberdeen! C'mon, smell the Tesco's own brand coffee and what they are trying to achieve by this action.

[AnotherATM]

kmart, on 2008-03-21 03:49:02, said:

The nature of big business is similar to that of big politics.

I thought they were the same thing! Look at Iraq and the US arms & oil industries.

[Plus]

I'm not saying that Tesco's lawsuit is entirely justified, but the guy in question is not some kind of activist like Supinya, he's a Secretary General of Thai Chamber of Commerce and an MP, for christsakes, and he repeatedly said that Tesco gets 37% of its revenue from this region.

I'm saying that Tesco doesn't deserve the rap it gets and anti-Tesco activists are not entirely sincere.

>>>

If Tesco monopolises the market it won't be searching for solution, but the fact is it's only one of four major chains, and not the best one.

By solution I meant talking to disgruntled suppliers who instigate all this trouble, not mom&pops. I believe Tesco needs to deal with them for the sake of peace, even if they probably deserve to rot in obscurity for their greed and underhand tactics.

[AnotherATM]

Active objection is not a futile gesture. When the intention to open a branch of Tesco-Locust in Kamphaeng Phet was announced the campaign launched by local traders was successful in stopping it even being built.

Power to the People!

[Plus]

Yes, and I believe that was not the only case. Did Tesco sue any of the protesters?

The guy in this thread is in an official position, the other one is academic, they both should watch what they say in public. They CAN be sued for spreading misinformation, it comes with their position.

[plachon]

Plus, on 2008-03-22 03:03:34, said:

Yes, and I believe that was not the only case. Did Tesco sue any of the protesters?

The guy in this thread is in an official position, the other one is academic, they both should watch what they say in public. They CAN be sued for spreading misinformation, it comes with their position.

They retracted the bit out 37 % of revenue coming from Thailand. Problem solved, move on Tescos. Do you really believe that exagerrated figure is worth 16 million quid? How else have they slandered Tescos and ruined its image? A sense of proportion is required here I believe, and running to litigation every time someone has the temerity to put down a multi-national corporation that makes supendous profits each year from you (not me anymore! ). As you say yourself one is an academic, so hardly likely to be a multi-millionaire, high roller (unless he's a Shinawatra or other Assembly of the Rich member) and that's where the parallel with Supinya bears comparison.

If people were sued every time it occurred for "spreading misinformation", especially in Thailand, then the courts would have a list from here to eternity filled with politicians and I suspect, supermarket chain chiefs with their ridiculous claims. But you know as well as I do, it doesn't work like that in Thailand or most other countries and where libel is concerned, it's mostly the mega-rich protecting their assets against the poor(er) members of society. I'm quite surprised at your hearty defence of Tesco Plus. Is it totally out of altruistic concerns for their "damaged" reputation, or is there some other interest you should be declaring here?

For what it's worth and following-on from earlier discussion about the underhand methods and tactics used by supermarket chains to dominate the marketplace, vis a vis, independent traders, the following list of reasons to avoid supermarkets if one is concerned about the loss of quality, choice, service and rural community life, then this may interest some. It's from Friends of the Earth Uk's website, but much of it is still relevant to the Thai situation, especially the way that supermarkets squeeze farmers of every drop of blood.

Why supermarkets are bad for consumers, farmers and small businesses

Supermarkets don’t offer the best price to consumers. Supermarket low prices are only on a very limited range of goods. A recent survey by Friends of the Earth found that supermarkets are the most expensive place to buy apples, market stalls and greengrocers beat the supermarkets, including Morrisons and Sainsbury’s on price [1]. A survey for Sustain in 2000 found that fruit and vegetables were around 30% cheaper at market stalls than supermarkets [2] .


Supermarkets favour imports over British produce. Although 84% of shoppers say they want supermarkets to give preference to British produce when it is in season [3] the supermarkets appear to do the opposite. A Friends of the Earth survey found that at the height of the UK apple season under half of the apples on offer in the big four supermarkets were home-grown [4].


Supermarkets’ bullying tactics can put small farmers out of business. The Competition Commission [5] found that the big supermarkets enter into unfair trading practices with their suppliers. For example supermarkets pay invoices very late, and they pass costs back to suppliers for changes to transport and packaging and even for their own mistakes in ordering. Because these practices can hamper suppliers investment in new products, and makes it hard for smaller businesses to compete, the Competition Commission warned that consumer choice may be effected.


Supermarkets are squeezing prices to farmers. Last year the NFU found that for a basket of food costing the consumer £37 the farmers would only have got £11. The Competition Commission found that Tesco which has the biggest market share paid the lowest prices [5].


Supermarkets are forcing small shops out of business. About eight independent shops close every day [6]. Small independent shops cannot compete with the big multiples.


Supermarkets do not support the local economy in the same way that local shops do. The New Economics Foundation [7] has found that local shops keep more money circulating in the local economy.


When a large supermarket opens there is a net loss of jobs. The British Retail Planning Forum found that every time a large supermarket opens on average 276 jobs are lost [8].


Supermarkets import food over huge distances, often by air, resulting in large emissions of carbon dioxide. For example two kilos of baby carrots from South Africa will travel 9,622 km by plane and result in emissions of 10,969 grammes of global warming carbon dioxide [9].


Supermarkets also transport food large distances around the UK due to their distribution system. For example according to the Institute of Grocery Distribution Sainsbury’s vehicles clocked up 15.7 million km last year and Asda-Walmart clocked up 147.9 million [10].


Supermarkets waste food by placing difficult conditions on farmers for cosmetic appearance. In a Friends of the Earth survey of apple growers [11] we found that supermarkets frequently reject fruit for being the wrong shape size or colour even though it is perfectly edible

Notes
[1] In October 2002, Friends of the Earth surveyed 151 supermarkets, 58 greengrocers and 29 markets, the results revealed that the average price for a kg of cox apples was just £1.02 at market stalls, £1.07 at greengrocers, but at Morrions or Asda-Walmart would cost £1.27 and at Sainsburys would cost as much as £1.44.
[2] Sustain, 2000, A Battle in Store
[3] NOP Omnibus, carried out the poll between the 8th and 10th November, see Friends of the Earth press release 18 November 2002 New Poll Shows Public Back Farmers v Supermarkets
[4] Friends of the Earth media briefing British Apples for Sale, November 2002
[5] Competition Commission, October 2000, Supermarkets
[6] Grocer Yearbook, 2002
[7] NEF, 2002, Ghost Town Britain
[8] British Retail Planning Forum, 1998, the impact of out-of-centre food superstores on local retail employment
[9] Sustain, 2001, Eating Oil, Food Supply in a Changing Climate
[10] The Grocer, 4 January 2003
[11] Friends of the Earth media briefing, November 2002, Supermarkets and Great British Fruit





Contact details:

Friends of the Earth
26-28 Underwood St.
LONDON
N1 7JQ

Tel: 020 7490 1555
Fax: 020 7490 0881
Web: www.foe.co.uk/feedback.html

[Plus]

Quote

someone has the temerity to put down a multi-national corporation

I don't think this guy spoke for the consumers, it could be, but more likely he was speaking for Tesco's competitors, and so I don't trust him.

As for supermarkets being bad - friends of the Earth presume that traditional stores/supply chains are better, more responsible, or "humane". Maybe it's true in the UK, but, transfer yourself back to chicken flue crisis for a moment. Who would you trust more - Tesco/Big C/Carrefour to sell you disease free meat or a local market seller who gets his chickens god knows where? 70% of pork on Bangkok fresh markets come from illegal, uncertified, unmonitored slaughterhouses. Can you honestly say that they care about you? Do you really believe they feel responsible if you get food poisoning from their substandard meat?

And I don't understand your point about boycotting Tesco - do you really extend this to Carrefour, Macro and the rest? Or do you believe that it's only Tesco that is bad for consumers? And what about smaller supermarkets like Tops. The only difference is that they carry only food and essentials, otherwise their business model and suppliers are exactly the same. Prices are not that different either.

[Lickey]

About 4 years ago, Tesco wanted to build a distribution center near Peterbourgh, UK, after all the planning ect and 15 acres of concrete, it was decided the local pumping station could not cope with the run-off of water from this, [Dog & Doublet pumping station into the River Nene near Whittlesey}, at the time it was powered by 2 1938 Crossley engines, which hand to be hand-started, my job was to take these out and replace with 2 8litre cummins engines which run on telemetry, water level high, auto start, Tesco paid the 1.5 million quid for this no prob, it has a distribution centre in the heart of the Fens which saves farmers travelling ect,

I must add that the local salad bags have a real bad effect on me, Tesco salad with some king prawns and seafood sauce make a lovely cocktail, with no bad effects,
I will continue shopping at Tesco for the following reasons, the beef mince is good, the pork cuts are good, the mixed salad bags are clean and tasty, all fruit is fresh, many household items in one place, and our nearest one is 100ks away,,,

[AnotherATM]

plachon, on 2008-03-22 12:54:58, said:

Why supermarkets are bad for consumers, farmers and small businesses

...

So refreshing to see a point supported to this extent, unlike the majority of posts that are merely unsupported objection to points raised by other posters to justify a personal position, whether that position is right or wrong.
Objectivism is the first rule of debate! (in my humble view).

[elkangorito]

Yes. Who is defending Tesco & why?

Is the evidence of years of this "supermarket society" not enough? Are you that lazy that you would buy/eat anything from a supermarket without even the slightest question like, "Where did this come from?" or "How many people lost their jobs to make this piece of steak?"

It's very simple...unless you have shares in these disgusting leeches, you will be well advised to boycott them.

[plachon]

I know I said I'd rather not go there, but what the hel_l, I was goaded.............

The Tesco, avian flu and industrial farming link can be explored here.......

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/as...mic-473244.html

Alternatively, just try googling something like "factory farming, bird flu" and see what comes up. The evidence is pretty strong, to say the least.

And as an aside, Hugh Fearnly-Whittingstall had a great programme on telly a few weeks ago, that featured none other than Tesco's and their 2 pound fifty factory farmed chickens, and what it takes to get from the farm to your shopping trolley. The supermarkets are now falling over backwards to try and sell "free-range" or "freedom food" chickens, because of the change in consumer habits this and a Jamie Oliver campaign have had. When celebs speak up for quality food from farm to plate, then it makes a big difference to what people buy. However, Jamie is in the pay of Sainsbury's and so draws the line at criticising them directly, but Hugh hates 'em and campaigns for the small trader and independent producer, retailer and consumer in UK. There is a large and growing anti-supermarket backlash going on here at moment, which is forcing them to be more responsible, ethical and answerable to the public.

The exact opposite is happening in Thailand, evidenced by this ridiculous litigation against individuals by the "Every Little Hurts" chain. BOYCOTT the buggers!