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[jackk]

There are some users who cannot run Ubuntu 7.10 + Compiz without a crash (system freezes, only mouse is working). There's nothing to do for now, maybe your problem will be solved with Ubuntu 8.04 next month as it will include the latest xorg. For now, just disable any visual effects and that should/will be OK.
Also, using Automatix is absolutely not recommanded for now, as it can mess a lot with any Ubuntu updates. It seems using it with 8.04 will be OK, but that has to be verified.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello

Well, my system is DEAD - yet again.  I still seem to be following the typical Linux routine of "fix one problem, introduce two new problems".

So ever since installing Gutsy there was no boot splash screen. At first i decided to live with that - it looked strange that right after GRUB the monitor turned off and came back with the login-window a while later.

Ok, so i got all my software installations done, all my updating done (still worked fine even after Automatix) and because it was such a well working system i decided to hunt down that last problem (apart from that dodgy Nvidia driver which i just decided to ignore as everything worked).

Googled for a while, found that 90% of Gutsy users have the same problem, and found a solution too. It had to do with the resolution - there is an entry in two different files, both related to booting (one ends in .lst, sorry i can't remember those file names now) and that was different while it should be identical. So i changed it according to instructions on the net, and shut down to test. Yes, there was a splash screen/moving status bar so it seemed to work.

After the computer had shut down, i started it again.

And nothing. No boot. AGAIN!

Ok so i know the GRUB menu now, chose the recovery mode, and nope - didn't get THAT either! What i got was this:

Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block (0,0)

So after further googling (thanks god i have a second machine running Windows!!) i found that it is apparently possible to edit the boot commands, i tried that - yup, got some bash thingy that enables editing - but no SAVING! So what good is that?? My boot line looks weird - where it should say something like "root=/dev/hda0" it says "root=UMII213535483215843543" or like that, a funny very long chain of numbers. No wonder the poor kernel panics - if someone would throw that line of numbers in MY face i'd panic, too.

So i edited that to /dev/hda0" and looked for a "save" option - narda, no have. Hmm just reboot? So i did - nope. That same long string of numbers is still there, on both kernels by the way, including the recovery one.

So i booted the live CD - first look, no, i was wrong - there is NOT a "repair install" or it has disappeared. However according to some things found on Googl;e, i should be able to edit my boot files while being on the live CD. So i tried. fFound them, the file system was mounted ok - nothing wrong with the HDD, everything there - but again it does NOT let me edit anything - i "don't have permission". Fed up with this "don't have permission" BS!! Trusty "sudo" failed as well - because i don't know how to address the hard drive, if i just try to edit the files in "/boot/grub/" it doesn't work because it only goes to the "live" session ones! Aaaaargh!

So i prepared mentally for yet-another-OS-install-from-scratch but this time wanted to backup first - plugged in my big thumb drive (which worked fine!) and tried to copy/paste my "home" folder where all the downloads are - NO!! "You don't have permission to do that!!"

So if i may bother you experienced Linuxers here - my system is apparently still fine and kicking, yet i don't get to it because there is a single dodgy entry in a single dodgy "boot" file that is "hiding" the root FS. IS there a way to edit this file from "outside", i.e. from the live CD or from within GRUB or from anywhere? I can't do regular command line work because i don't even get the command line due to the kernel panic.

And also, HOW in the world did that entry get messed up in first place??

And, is there a way to bypass all this "permission" crap and copy my "home" folder to a thumbdrive, using the GUI or terminal from the live CD?

There is NO WAY i am going to put this on my main machine any time soon........ it would go like "Need to convert a picture - ok, no problem, reinstall OS, convert it, save, shut down, boot, reinstall OS, look at picture, upload to web, shut down, boot, reinstall OS......."

Way too geeky, this stuff!

Best regards.....

Thanh

[Thanh-BKK]

Download of 8.04 BETA runs

Thanh

[slackula]

I think you should take a few steps back. If you really want to have a machine running some flavour of Linux then pick a distro, read all the documentation you can find, and stick with it.

I am not trying to be unhelpful, but all of the Compiz and Automatix stuff that you are trying to get running is probably tripping you up rather than helping, especially considering the age of the machine that you say you are using.

I'm pretty sure that Vista would not install on that machine (any version) and yet you are expecting a Linux distro to give you the same sort of functionality and eye candy.

Since it is not a mission critical server or something then why not take a deep breath, sit down and slowly plug your way through the issues that appear? Reading documentation and searching for similar problems and solutions are part and parcel of using a Linux system. Hit up a site like LinuxQuestions.org and it's almost certain that you'll find a solution with enough time and patience. Re-installing every day is not the best solution and will only cause more frustration.

Use whatever system works for you. I am posting this message from my iMac, I like the GUI it gives me and I like the 'feel' of the GUI, I think it is light years ahead of anything from MS and probably any Linux distro, but my beloved Thinkpad running a heavily modified Slackware 11 is rock solid serving up web pages and I also enjoy using FluxBox because it is so configurable, but it took a LOT of reading and fiddling to get it how I like it.


Meh, I apologise for the rant, but I really think that if you want to learn and appreciate using a properly configured Linux machine then you should consider taking the time to install and configure the basics (using a shell when necessary) and then move up. It is actually very rewarding imh(umble)o.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi

Posting this from Firefox 3 under Ubuntu 8.04.

While i fully agree with you, you may also understand my frustration during the process - fiddling with the system to get it to work the way i want it, and then, kaboom - i am back at stage zero.

I KNOW that Vista wouldn't install on this hardware, yet isn't it Linux that always claim to be soooo backwards-friendly? All i want is for it to offer me the same functionality as XP - which was on this very computer right until i started with Linux. And so far, Ubuntu only gives me the graphical abilities of Windows 95...... needless to say, that "Nvidia" driver fails just as miserably under 8.04 as it did under 6.10 and 7.10. Oh, and that graphic card DOES work under Windows 95, and of course under XP as well.

I spent quite a LOT of time trying to get Ubuntu, any version, to do something for me. What on Windows would have been a multi-hour story here became two weeks, and still not there. Ok, don't want to rant, i knew what Linux would be like before i popped that CD in here, however that it doesn't get me ANYwhere i did NOT expect.

And yes, i also used Google to a very great extend, and tested many many solutions - just for some reason none of them worked (in order to fix my last problem i tried about 15 different things, which i brought home from the office on no less that 52 sheets of paper!) without convincing my 7.10 to give me a boot. So i gave IT the boot and went for 8.04.

So for now i got a splash screen - good, one bug not present in here. Tomorrow i'll start the process of updating yet again, then the software.... oh, and why some people highly recommend to use "Automatix" yet others say "Noooo don't use that!"..?? As they are both experienced (certainly more than me) what am i supposed to do, use it or not? Or use it like 50%??

And for configuring things in a shell one needs the knowledge on shells - i can fix an engine and build a computer from parts, but "shell" is for me like "jet propulsion" to the average gardener. And having a second computer (running Windows, ironically!) to spend hours in forums or waiting a day for an answer to a single question - that way maybe i'll have my system working on my 50th birthday - just another 17 years from now.

Hence the title of my topic - "Ubuntu - still way too geeky". I could have named it "Windows is better than Linux" or "Windows beats Ubuntu" but i didn't - for a reason. I LIKE Ubuntu and WANT Ubuntu - but it's way too geeky.

Best regards......

Thanh

[dave_boo]

Thanh, the average user probably shouldn't be messing around in a terminal.  Having said that, Ubuntu has a really messed up implementation of sudo.  You should not be able to type in sudo and your password and be able to use that for 10 minutes without typing in your password again.  That's just asking for someone to write something that gets you to type in your password once and than get root access later.
/rant

I think that you're also expecting too much from your hardware.  Take for instance your videocard....there's nothing wrong with it per se, but it does have its limitations.  These limitations are both hardware and software based.  The hardware based problems come from its age (you couldn't run the latest games under Windows with that card!), and the software problems arise from the drivers that nVidia wrote for it.  I don't know if Ubuntu has 'legacy' drivers in its repositories, but if you were to follow that guide I wrote up for you earlier in the thread, you can quite easily install the drivers for that card from nVidia's website.

You also need to consider what you're running.....Copmiz is currently at version 0.6.2--That's beta software.  Try and use beta software under Windows and see what happens.  

I have yet to see a Linux box that uses either Gnome or KDE NOT offer the same functionality, and more, of Windows XP.  Perhaps you could list why you think it doesn't, and what you expect it to do and we can help you.

Also, Linux is backwards compatabile.  Extremely much so.  However, in order to utilise the hardware you have to give some things up.  Take for instance a car analogy:  I'm sure that Michelin offers tires that can fit on cars from the 30's-60's.  And those tires will meet every current safety standard, etc.  However, you can't expect those tires to magically make your car from that period go 200 KM/H.

I can sympathise that you're just starting out on Linux and it seems overwhelming.  However, I'm going to echo Slackula and recommend you to study a problem from all angles before wading in with a sword when a scalpel will do the job.

Oh, and if you want to learn how to run a cli editor, type in vim-tutor in a terminal.  It will teach you how to use vim, including editing, saving, etc.

And your question about your grub problem:  If you boot up a LiveCD, you need to navigate to /mnt/hda* to find your operating system that was installed on your hard drive.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello

Thank you very much for the reply. You brought up several very valid points, i'm going to address them.

I fully agre that the "average user" shouldn't be bothered with terminals. Joe normal wants to fire up the computer and do his work. However with Ubuntu (and quite every other Linux flavour out there) you need to do some serious tinkering before you get there. THAT's what i'm all about - the time needed to get the system to do what it is supposed to. And the lack of user-friendliness - i.e. terminals are STILL required for way too many things.

My video card is an old one, yes. It sure wouldn't run the latest games or even the latest Windows (it actually would run Vista, minus the "Aero" thing). However it does perfectly run XP and there are no problems with 3D acceleration etc, as i mentioned earlier i did run "Need For Speed Underground" on that card without any problems - and that DOES put some requirements on graphics hardware. Now my card could cope with that, why does it, under Linux, not even get OpenGL to work??

There are "legacy" drivers for it, coming from the repos, and that very driver is the one that makes the trouble, i.e. hard freezes the system as soon as i open an application. It showed this same behaviour under 6.10, 7.10 and now under 8.04. I tried some of the provided options but no joy - to get the system to work i have to disable that driver and go with the "nv" one. No 3D but stable system.

I have used beta software under Windows and never experienced a glitch. And i'm being honest here! I still use several betas on a daily basis and can't be assed to change to the full versions - if a software works stable and does the intended job, it'll stay on my system for ever, alpha, beta or whatever. I know nothing about "compiz" (i'm honest again here!) and what it does or is supposed to do, however if it's about 3D, it doesn't work simply because i can't get the driver to work in first place (under "system - preferences - appearance - visual effects i can not turn ANYTHING on without that driver!)

As to the car analogy, if my car runs 150 with "Firestone" tyres, i expect it to run 150 with "Michelin". I know it won't go 250 then, but if it goes only 50 i'm pissed at Michelin. What i mean is - the computer i'm trying this Ubuntu on had no problems running XP and just about any piece of software (apart from latest games, but then i'm no gamer anyway) so why wouldn't Linux? And 3D acceleration is something extremely basic.

About "studying problems from all angles", yes, if i have someone rich in the west that supports me with a steady inflow of money, i can sit here for days, weks and months troubleshooting a problem, posting on forums and waiting for answers. But as i have a couple of hours in the morning and another couple of hours in the evening, unfortunately i have to get my system working - because the rest of the time i spend working for a living. And it is very difficult to study a problem if one doesn't know what problem it is, it suddenly appeared all by itself and renders the computer in question unbootable.

Sadly, under Linux, just about EVERY glitch results in the "no boot" symptom, where under Windows it would show an error message and you could close the offending piece of software or at least have an error code on the blue screen to google for. Under Linux you always get the same - nothing.

regarding the Grub problem, turned out it wasn't a Grub problem - because even after successfully editing the boot file, it wouldn't boot, and a complete rebuild of Grub (Super Grub CD!) didn't help either - my installed system was found and all but refused to boot with the exact same error message. So it must have been the kernel itself that somehow got screwed up - by enabling a freakin' splash screen!Let's put some car analogy again - if you put a spoiler on your trunk lid (which was supposed to be there ex factory) and as a result the engine explodes, wouldn't you wonder if you REALLY had a good car there?

Best regards......

Thanh

[dave_boo]

Thanh-BKK, on 2008-04-01 05:13:58, said:

Hello

Thank you very much for the reply. You brought up several very valid points, i'm going to address them.

I fully agre that the "average user" shouldn't be bothered with terminals. Joe normal wants to fire up the computer and do his work. However with Ubuntu (and quite every other Linux flavour out there) you need to do some serious tinkering before you get there. THAT's what i'm all about - the time needed to get the system to do what it is supposed to. And the lack of user-friendliness - i.e. terminals are STILL required for way too many things.

**By your own admission, it does exactly that.  However, you have been trying to fix the cosmetics.  That's an advanced task.  There are similar programs for XP (Windowblinds or something) that will hose your XP install just as badly as someone rummaging around in a Linux install.

My video card is an old one, yes. It sure wouldn't run the latest games or even the latest Windows (it actually would run Vista, minus the "Aero" thing). However it does perfectly run XP and there are no problems with 3D acceleration etc, as i mentioned earlier i did run "Need For Speed Underground" on that card without any problems - and that DOES put some requirements on graphics hardware. Now my card could cope with that, why does it, under Linux, not even get OpenGL to work??

**Good question.  Perhaps you should email nVidia, since you're trying to install their driver and ask them why it is not working properly.  Remember that without the driver (which is supplied by the manufacturer, not the OpenSource Community), your card is just a fancy vesa display adapter.

There are "legacy" drivers for it, coming from the repos, and that very driver is the one that makes the trouble, i.e. hard freezes the system as soon as i open an application. It showed this same behaviour under 6.10, 7.10 and now under 8.04. I tried some of the provided options but no joy - to get the system to work i have to disable that driver and go with the "nv" one. No 3D but stable system.

**Did you try and use a driver that's older/newer than the one in the repository?  Go to nvidia.com and look for an older version, or possibly newer.  I'm sure that for something that critical Ubuntu uses the most stable (i.e. one of the oldest) driver possible.

I have used beta software under Windows and never experienced a glitch. And i'm being honest here! I still use several betas on a daily basis and can't be assed to change to the full versions - if a software works stable and does the intended job, it'll stay on my system for ever, alpha, beta or whatever. I know nothing about "compiz" (i'm honest again here!) and what it does or is supposed to do, however if it's about 3D, it doesn't work simply because i can't get the driver to work in first place (under "system - preferences - appearance - visual effects i can not turn ANYTHING on without that driver!)

As to the car analogy, if my car runs 150 with "Firestone" tyres, i expect it to run 150 with "Michelin". I know it won't go 250 then, but if it goes only 50 i'm pissed at Michelin. What i mean is - the computer i'm trying this Ubuntu on had no problems running XP and just about any piece of software (apart from latest games, but then i'm no gamer anyway) so why wouldn't Linux? And 3D acceleration is something extremely basic.

**You're starting to understand.  There's no problem with the vehicle....it's with the tires if you can't perform after putting them in.  So, if your system was fine before putting in the nVidia driver, and it wasn't after, do you suppose it's nVidia's fault or Ubuntu's?

About "studying problems from all angles", yes, if i have someone rich in the west that supports me with a steady inflow of money, i can sit here for days, weks and months troubleshooting a problem, posting on forums and waiting for answers. But as i have a couple of hours in the morning and another couple of hours in the evening, unfortunately i have to get my system working - because the rest of the time i spend working for a living. And it is very difficult to study a problem if one doesn't know what problem it is, it suddenly appeared all by itself and renders the computer in question unbootable.

**But it doesn't appear just by itself does it?  It happens after you've tinkered with the system.  Please learn how to fix whatever you're planning to do before you do it.  You say you know how to rebuild engines.  Would you take a carb apart to tinker with it before you knew how to put it back together?

Sadly, under Linux, just about EVERY glitch results in the "no boot" symptom, where under Windows it would show an error message and you could close the offending piece of software or at least have an error code on the blue screen to google for. Under Linux you always get the same - nothing.

**I don't know what you're talking about.  Here's a quote from one of your posts:  "Kernel panic - not syncing: VFS: Unable to mount root fs on unknown-block (0,0)".  Now a google search of that returns a whole bunch of hits (26,800 to be percise).

regarding the Grub problem, turned out it wasn't a Grub problem - because even after successfully editing the boot file, it wouldn't boot, and a complete rebuild of Grub (Super Grub CD!) didn't help either - my installed system was found and all but refused to boot with the exact same error message. So it must have been the kernel itself that somehow got screwed up - by enabling a freakin' splash screen!Let's put some car analogy again - if you put a spoiler on your trunk lid (which was supposed to be there ex factory) and as a result the engine explodes, wouldn't you wonder if you REALLY had a good car there?

**Perhaps you could link to the helpful instructions that you followed to screw up your menu.lst?  I doubt your kernel got screwed, unless you were trying to recompile/reconfigure it.  And yes, if you were putting on a cosmetic spoiler with lights and wired it into your fuel injection system causing the system to run lean I would expect it to fail.

Best regards......

Thanh

**edit**
Oh, and there was a solution for your kernel panic....third link on the google search I linked to.

Edited by dave_boo, 2008-04-01 10:18:28.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello again

y friend, i don't want to bother you.... while i appreciate any help i can get on the issue, ranting about the way i am trying to get things done in a humanly time frame does not help me, it is that very stuff that throws pretty much most Linux-newbies right off in Linux forums - where the experienced ones either assume you already know everything (do this and that - if you don't know HOW, better stick to Windows) or where it takes for ever to get somewhere.

You see, i posted about my problem in the Ubuntu forum - and i got, in 24 hours, two replies, both of which didn't rectify the problem. Now this is not a rant, it's a forum after all and nobody gets paid to help n00bs like me, but to someone "like me" who needs a computer to do work with, it doesn't help having that computer non-booting for 24 hours and needing a second one to pull up the internet - to find that a suggested solution doesn't work.

About your solution (your  Google find), i tried that one, it was one of many, while booted on the live CD. The result was something to the tune of "unrecognised command - mkdir" so i tried with a "sudo" in front of it and that still did nothing. Anyway in the end i managed to get those entries in that boot thing corrected, yet the system stubbornly STILL refused to boot wit that same error message, which is why i am thinking that somehow the kernel got knackered.

Now your analogy with "Window Blinds" doesn't pull - that's an add-on which is no part of Windows, while Ubuntu's splash screen is very much a part of Ubuntu. Enabling/disabling this splash screen is like enabling/disabling an original Windows screensaver under XP - it certainly is not supposed to fcuk up the whole system! Yet, under Ubuntu, it did precisely that. Apart from that i have Window Blinds on the very machine that i am using right now and there are no problems whatsoever on it.

About the Nvidia driver, i DID try the "newest" one from Nvidia's site - that was the first one that screwed me up, under 6.10. The one that generated it's own splash screen when booting. And testing 16 driver versions, subsequently each time having to reinstall the OS, only to find that none works - no thanks, honestly, i don't have the time for that.

Error message: Yes of course that error message was there. That is because i had a second computer (running WINDOWS!) to go online and figure out what to do with the Grub boot menu to figure out if there IS an error message! Now imagine me being a TOTAL newbie with only ONE computer. I had a dead machine, which showed nothing but a pitch black screen - WITHOUT any error messages. Windows, even on a total failure, shows the BSOD and an error message right there. And i DID google such error messages before - for example a friend of mine sent me a picture he had taken off his screen when his machine crashed, hacking that exact code into Google i knew in one minute which program on his computer caused what problem and how to solve it. On my Linux issue, after finding the message, i got like 109 different possible problems with 3.518 possible solutions, more or less all of them involving some serious command line coding and assuming i had just the correct type of CD available to boot with (seems like i need the "alternate" one which i don't have).

And back to the "car" stuff - if you wire a spoiler, even one WITH a brake light, to your ignition system, then you deserve a knackered engine. Because everyone else would likely hook it up to the brake light But Linux is a car where the brake light seems to be controlled by the ignition system....... and nobody tells the driver so. What on earth does a splash screen have to do with a kernel?? Or, more correct, the setting of the screen resolution (which caused the splash screen to fail). And i am not talking about some fancy widescreen resolution here, but VGA for Pete's sake - 640x480!

Anyway, i am now on 8.04, it appears working (done updating, rebooted 125 times to make sure, double check, make sure again and prove it - it works). Haven't installed Google Earth yet (Firefox 3 doesn't seem to like that website) so now (tomorrow morning) i'll look for a way to get Firefox 2 on there - as far as i know they can co-exist, at least on Windows they can (i've got them both on Vista).

With best regards......

Thanh

[RKASA]

I don't know why your having all these problems with Ubuntu its one of the easy ones and most have good results, but when it happens to me I try something differant.  Something with gnome if you like that and googlearth Oprea, skpye preinstalled purhaps.  Right on the live cd which can be installed from GUI without using a commandline.  PClinuxOS based SAM2007. also can read and write ntfs drives.  I tested it out the other day and it fired rigth up on my laptop. I then installed it to an ext. usb drive and it ran fine.  It had a few cool things in it that I had not seen before.  I located the
m again in synaptic and added them to my reg. kde install.
The people at the sam web site were really nice, I hope you like the color green.  I ll stay with my PClinuxOS2007 I like the kde but there are suites in the repos which will which it over to gnome, and I like the ciolor blue more then green anyway.  About the nVidia even M$ is openly complaining about the cards and drivers, they say most all vista problems are related to it.  Good luck and don't give up, I can tell your above average, you'll win. 

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi

Download of SAM 2007 is running. Let's see... i'm open minded enough and i DO like green (i hope that changing a wallpaper won't make it "no boot" and also i hope that the dock, shown in the screenshot on that site, does not require some fancy driver that is impossible to get working.

Kind regards.....

Thanh

[hp8000]

I did a research in Google about your card and found this: Bug nvidia-glx-legacy

The link comes from the french Ubuntu forum in this thread: Forum Ubuntu FR

The dock shown in the SAM's screenshot is  wbar and should work without 3D, but don't hope to have the cube.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello

Thank you SO MUCH for that link! This is one thing i will try right tomorrow morning. Maybe that dodgy driver will then work after all. Thank you also for letting me know about SAM - yeah, i don't need the cube (i'm never switching workplaces anyway, one is enough) but i am so used to the dock on both XP and Vista now.......

@RKASA
I know you will stay with PC Linux OS 2007, but may i have your personal opinion on PC Linux OS GNOME 2008? It looks STUNNING!! I prefer Gnome due to the fact it has the taskbar where i need it (on top, that is) without any fiddling. However in the description on the site it says "Nvidia and ATI restricted drivers available after install...." so i guess there is not much difference to Ubuntu..... Since i have plenty and more space on the HDD in that computer that i'm using now to test Linux, is it possible to install several Linux systems side-by-side (as they all use GRUB it should do a dual- or triple-boot)? I really want to test my Ubuntu, SAM and this PC Linux OS with the Gnome. But somehow i wish to test them at the same time, i.e. not committing to one - i know, live CD is good for first impression but if everything works the way it should is only testable after an install. So, is that possible? Is that difficult??

@all
How can i, from within a working Linux (here Ubuntu) create a separate partition for /home? During install, the partitioner lets me do things manually but i have no idea how to do that, it asks for mount points and stuff which i know nothing about. Right now, i have over 35 GB free on that HDD (it's a 40 GB one) so Ubuntu itself stays quite small. Even installing two more Linux's on there, i'll end up with 15 GB used (provided they stay just as small) and 25 GB free, so i want to use some 15 GB or so for /home. Can three installed Linux systems use the same /home folder/partition or does each want it's own? On Windows, i can also access all data partitions from both XP and Vista (dual boot).

With best regards, and many thanks for help.....

Thanh

[hp8000]

Thanh-BKK, on 2008-04-01 21:34:53, said:

Hello

Thank you SO MUCH for that link! This is one thing i will try right tomorrow morning. Maybe that dodgy driver will then work after all. Thank you also for letting me know about SAM - yeah, i don't need the cube (i'm never switching workplaces anyway, one is enough) but i am so used to the dock on both XP and Vista now.......

@RKASA
I know you will stay with PC Linux OS 2007, but may i have your personal opinion on PC Linux OS GNOME 2008? It looks STUNNING!! I prefer Gnome due to the fact it has the taskbar where i need it (on top, that is) without any fiddling.
As I said previously, the desktop environment (Gnome/KDE) is just a graphical representation of  what you can do in a command line, you can install Gnome desktop along KDE and the login manager will allow you to choose wich environment you want to launch.

However in the description on the site it says "Nvidia and ATI restricted drivers available after install...." so i guess there is not much difference to Ubuntu..... Since i have plenty and more space on the HDD in that computer that i'm using now to test Linux, is it possible to install several Linux systems side-by-side (as they all use GRUB it should do a dual- or triple-boot)? I really want to test my Ubuntu, SAM and this PC Linux OS with the Gnome. But somehow i wish to test them at the same time, i.e. not committing to one - i know, live CD is good for first impression but if everything works the way it should is only testable after an install. So, is that possible? Is that difficult??

I will not recommend to install more than one GNU/Linux distro on your PC as long as you are not more experimented with this OS, as I would not recommend to share the same "/home" between several GNU/Linux distros. The different distros could have different software versions and as all the personnal config files are located in "/home" it could mess the desktop environment and apps configs.

@all
How can i, from within a working Linux (here Ubuntu) create a separate partition for /home? During install, the partitioner lets me do things manually but i have no idea how to do that, it asks for mount points and stuff which i know nothing about. Right now, i have over 35 GB free on that HDD (it's a 40 GB one) so Ubuntu itself stays quite small. Even installing two more Linux's on there, i'll end up with 15 GB used (provided they stay just as small) and 25 GB free, so i want to use some 15 GB or so for /home. Can three installed Linux systems use the same /home folder/partition or does each want it's own? On Windows, i can also access all data partitions from both XP and Vista (dual boot).

To partition the hard disk you can use the "fdisk" and "cfdisk" commands in a terminal or gparted who is a gui, I recommand you have a look at the doc before as you can easily destroy your partition table and the whole install.

About installing and partitioning at install, have a look at this link in pictures: Install Ubuntu Dual-boot
Much better than I can explain in this thread as I don't use Ubuntu.

With best regards, and many thanks for help.....

Thanh

Good luck and RTFM, it will help a lot more for just a little time investment.

[dave_boo]

Thanh-BKK, on 2008-04-01 08:24:47, said:

Hello again

y friend, i don't want to bother you.... while i appreciate any help i can get on the issue, ranting about the way i am trying to get things done in a humanly time frame does not help me, it is that very stuff that throws pretty much most Linux-newbies right off in Linux forums - where the experienced ones either assume you already know everything (do this and that - if you don't know HOW, better stick to Windows) or where it takes for ever to get somewhere.

You see, i posted about my problem in the Ubuntu forum - and i got, in 24 hours, two replies, both of which didn't rectify the problem. Now this is not a rant, it's a forum after all and nobody gets paid to help n00bs like me, but to someone "like me" who needs a computer to do work with, it doesn't help having that computer non-booting for 24 hours and needing a second one to pull up the internet - to find that a suggested solution doesn't work.

**You do realise that for the price you paid for the OS, you can't expect someone to be sitting there waiting to answer your question, don't you?  Most F/OSS people have normal jobs, just like you and I, and help others out when they're able.

About your solution (your Google find), i tried that one, it was one of many, while booted on the live CD. The result was something to the tune of "unrecognised command - mkdir" so i tried with a "sudo" in front of it and that still did nothing. Anyway in the end i managed to get those entries in that boot thing corrected, yet the system stubbornly STILL refused to boot wit that same error message, which is why i am thinking that somehow the kernel got knackered.

Now your analogy with "Window Blinds" doesn't pull - that's an add-on which is no part of Windows, while Ubuntu's splash screen is very much a part of Ubuntu. Enabling/disabling this splash screen is like enabling/disabling an original Windows screensaver under XP - it certainly is not supposed to fcuk up the whole system! Yet, under Ubuntu, it did precisely that. Apart from that i have Window Blinds on the very machine that i am using right now and there are no problems whatsoever on it.

**You're not trying to update Ubuntu's splash screen...you're trying to make Grub's nice and purty.  If you've ever had a multi-boot Windows machine, you'd know that it's boot selector is just as ugly as a plain jane Grub one.  And you know what....it's functional if not exactly stylish.

About the Nvidia driver, i DID try the "newest" one from Nvidia's site - that was the first one that screwed me up, under 6.10. The one that generated it's own splash screen when booting. And testing 16 driver versions, subsequently each time having to reinstall the OS, only to find that none works - no thanks, honestly, i don't have the time for that.

Error message: Yes of course that error message was there. That is because i had a second computer (running WINDOWS!) to go online and figure out what to do with the Grub boot menu to figure out if there IS an error message! Now imagine me being a TOTAL newbie with only ONE computer. I had a dead machine, which showed nothing but a pitch black screen - WITHOUT any error messages. Windows, even on a total failure, shows the BSOD and an error message right there. And i DID google such error messages before - for example a friend of mine sent me a picture he had taken off his screen when his machine crashed, hacking that exact code into Google i knew in one minute which program on his computer caused what problem and how to solve it. On my Linux issue, after finding the message, i got like 109 different possible problems with 3.518 possible solutions, more or less all of them involving some serious command line coding and assuming i had just the correct type of CD available to boot with (seems like i need the "alternate" one which i don't have).

And back to the "car" stuff - if you wire a spoiler, even one WITH a brake light, to your ignition system, then you deserve a knackered engine. Because everyone else would likely hook it up to the brake light But Linux is a car where the brake light seems to be controlled by the ignition system....... and nobody tells the driver so. What on earth does a splash screen have to do with a kernel?? Or, more correct, the setting of the screen resolution (which caused the splash screen to fail). And i am not talking about some fancy widescreen resolution here, but VGA for Pete's sake - 640x480!

**OH Grasshopper, you're getting closer.  If we're to continue on the car analogy, to put on a spoiler, under Windows under go out and BUY an adapter.  Using Linux, you're given a variety of tools and instructions and told "If you need help give me a ring".  You than have to take responsibilty for your actions, but following the instructions completely, you're pretty close to being able to do it.

For instance, you know that upon installing nVidia's drivers, they create a kernel module.  Perhaps that is what's FUBARing your kernel......

Anyway, i am now on 8.04, it appears working (done updating, rebooted 125 times to make sure, double check, make sure again and prove it - it works). Haven't installed Google Earth yet (Firefox 3 doesn't seem to like that website) so now (tomorrow morning) i'll look for a way to get Firefox 2 on there - as far as i know they can co-exist, at least on Windows they can (i've got them both on Vista).

With best regards......

Thanh

I really do like helping people with Linux; but to hear lines like "Linux is totally unstable" or "I messed up my install" or the sort really sticks in my craw.  People need to remember that often times it's drivers or hardware that actually barf (excluding the owner's tinkering).  After all, taking a look at the world's top servers, you'll see that Linux is so far ahead of Windows in uptime it's ridiculous.  And any one of those servers is being pushed harder than you or I could push our desktops.

[RKASA]

Well! Thanh,   I must say my face is red and I am sorry.    I just found that in fact I am having lots of problems with SAM I didn't see before.  In fact, it won't boot right now and I know how you like that.     It seems that when the main is enablabled in the synaptic the updates don't go so well any more and lots of bad things happen.  Wish I had caught this sooner but I was out most the day.

I was running it OK but had not updated the main.  I added a repos address that would work better for me because they only had two listed at install and some how did not enter main.   All the mirrors are the same so adding an address is not an issue and using main extra nonfree kde  an stuff at any mirror site of the 14 works the same.  Just in case up dating that way was the problem I started over from insta
ll and it didn't change the main won't update.  

Now it seems to be a lot of issues with essential packages and stuff.  I even try to up date only by sections and work around any issues and it borked.  

Maybe if you don't up date main its OK.     I still have it on  my test drive, but I am moving it back to testing status.  I won't re install it as there must be a way to fix it.

edit oops forgot about the other ?  Yes you can put lots of OS on the same drive and they can share the grub and the swap partition.  I always use a seperate partition for home as well and the numbers can start making the fstab hard to look at. with two partitions for each OS then the swap and all the media and stuff., but really it works pretty well.

I have to fire up a gnome PClinuxOS and take it for a few laps its been awhile.  I ll get back on that.

Edited by RKASA, 2008-04-02 02:00:23.

[hp8000]

Give a try to Mandriva One 2008, it rocks. And the Mandriva configuration center works well. Even tell you the graphical driver who will suit your card.

I've installed it on a new laptop I bought 2 1/2 months ago and it works like a charm, updates included.

Oops, forgot the links.

English: Mandriva EN

French: Mandriva FR

And Thanh-BKK, just buy a decent Nvidia graphic card and you will save us some 100 more posts complaining about GNU/Linux. Do you have less than 1000 bahts in your pocket ?

Edited by hp8000, 2008-04-02 02:08:36.

[RKASA]

hp8000, on 2008-04-02 01:59:27, said:

Give a try to Mandriva One 2008, it rocks. And the Mandriva configuration center works well. Even tell you the graphical driver who will suit your card.

I've installed it on a new laptop I bought 2 1/2 months ago and it works like a charm, updates included.

Oops, forgot the links.

English: Mandriva EN

French: Mandriva FR

I should fire that up too.  

[cophen]

I've read recently that there's a Linux distribution that installs in a Windows folder rather than needing drive repartioning. Can anyone tell me what it's called please?

[dave_boo]

cophen, on 2008-04-01 22:10:09, said:

I've read recently that there's a Linux distribution that installs in a Windows folder rather than needing drive repartioning. Can anyone tell me what it's called please?

There used to be a program called win4lin....not sure whatever happened to it.  However, if I'm understanding you correctly, why don't you just go to the Slax website and install it to a USB key?  They're cheap as chips anyways, and you can show it off to your friends on their computers without doing permanent damage.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello

Just to inform you, i have tried BOTH solutions in the link from that French Ubuntu-Forum and NEITHER worked. As soon as i open any appliction apart from, a terminal, the system freezes (hard freezes, no mouse).

I'll stick to the "nv" driver.

And no, i will NOT buy a newer graphic card - this computer is my test computer, the graphic card is the only thing not on-board and if i fail to get Linux to run on such a simple machine i won't let it anywhere near my main machine, which has tons of hardware that probably means MONTHS of tinkering and 100 OS re-installs under Linux.

Thanks for advising on the SAM 2007 - i'll not bother with it then and go straight for the PC Linux OS Gnome.

The thingy to install Linux (Ubuntu actually) under Windows is called "Wubi". Get it here:

http://wubi-installer.org/index.php

Best regards.....

Thanh

[Thanh-BKK]

And here i am - on Windows.

Unfortunately now i'll say "Good Bye Ubuntu". Reason? I installed Google Earth to see if it works (like it did under 7.10) without the Nvidia driver. It instaleed ok.

Started it - and it crashed X or something, there was a short burst of text running on a black screen too fast to see what is running, then i got the login-window again.

I know 8.04 is still beta and all, but i have now tried 6.10, 7.10 and 8.04 and none of them works the way they should without spending a horrible amount of time to try and get them there... sorry, Ubuntu, you may be free as in "no money" but the amount of time needed to get you working stands in no relation to it.

Just to tell all readesr why i am frustrated, here a brief wrap-up on my "linux-history":

early 2000: SuSE 6.4. Never got the modem and sound to work, recurring problems with the mouse. Went back to Windows 98.

2001: several distros from the back of magazines, such as "Easy Linux" and "Red Hat". Various problems with the hardware, mostly again sound and modem, specially "Red Hat" kept crashing for no apparent reason. Went to Windows 2000.

2005-2006: Various attempts with SuSE 10.0. Worked fine initially, after some software installs (Skype! Needed for work then!) got buggy and started crashing. Back to Windows XP.

2007: Playing around in VM's, SuSE 10.0, Ubuntu 6.06 and 6.10. SuSE never got the screen resolution to work, always had a tiny window on a big screen. Failed to install "VMware extensions", screwed up the system. Ubuntu 6.06 worked, did not support sound, DVD burner and USB. Ubuntu 6.10 failed to install on a VM (partitioner hung).

2007: Attempted to install Ubuntu 6.10 on three identical workstations (Compaq Deskpro) at the office. One failed to install completely (hung during install, multiple times), one installed but wouldn't boot, one installed fine but login didn't work - correct username and password but wouldn't log in. Back to Windows XP on all three.

And now - Ubuntu 6.10, 7.10 and 8.04 all refuse to accept the appropriate driver for graphics, suggested workarounds don't work, minimal tweaks such as enabling the splash screens screw up the system or software installs that also screw up the system.

Tomorrow morning i'll put that PC Linux OS on it and see what THAT does (or better, what it does NOT).

Maybe some day i'll hit the lottery, then i'll just buy a new HDD and invite one of you Linux gurus over to my place, give you the distro, point at my main machine with all hardware/USB thingies connected, and say: "Go for it, i want a working system with such-and-such software installed and working" and then i'll pay for your efforts. But right now, i can't afford that - an original Windows is cheaper and i can install it myself.

An idea what needs to work on my main machine: ATI x300 graphics WITH TV-out (which is USED so MUST work!!), 500 GB second HDD with four NTFS partitions to which i need read/write access, PCI dialup modem (you'll never know when the ADSL fails the next time...), DVD burner, internal 4-in-1 memory card reader, on-board sound (just stereo, nothing fancy), HP all-in-one USB printer to be used as scanner ("printer" part is fcuked but scanner works fine), Lexmark USB printer, Bluetooth-USB adaptor, IrDA-USB adaptor, Nokia connectivity cable, Samsung data cable, Sony-Ericsson data cable, Casio serial-IR adaptor.

I need the following softwares: Skype, Google Earth, video codecs/players for EVERY format that exists (!!), video converters for EVERY format that exists (!!!), mp3/ogg/wma/asf editor/converter, picture editor, BitTorrent software, office suite (OpenOffice is fine, i like it), as many as possible different web browsers, Java, Flash, Quicktime, Adobe PDF creation and reading, zip/rar support (opening and creating), FTP, IRC, MSN, AIM, Yahoo messenger, E-Mail software that  allows downloading of e-mail to my computer and supports G-Mail AND HOTMAIL (!!) etc.

I want a separate /home partition as big as possible (obviously depends on HDD size) and all the above has to run under a resolution of 1280x1024 on an LCD and also on a 21" TV.

I also want a custom wallpaper (only one, thanks, once set i'll never change it, i'm using this same one since over 6 years already) and require the taskbar to be on the TOP of the screen and a dock on the bottom, the dock has to appear on top of any open window when i move the mouse to the bottom, and there need to be icons for my data HDD partitions and my most used programs.

The machine is a 2007 build, so the hardware may be outdated already but at least not by too much, it has plenty of "oomph" to it (2 GB RAM, 128 MB graphics, AMD 2.800 Sempron overclocked to 3.200 currently) so Linux should be able to run with all the "bells and whistles" enabled.

Are you up to the challenge? How much would you take for the job?

With best regards......

Thanh

PS @ dave_boo
Thanks for your suggestions again, as you see, in my case (maybe i'm just a complete idiot) even following the instructions by the letter does not rectify the problem at hand. I would say the graphic card is bad but then it wouldn't work under Windows, and there it DOES work, 3D and all.

Car analogy? Linux is a car where the engine explodes when the brake light bulb burns out. Also you won't be able to start the engine if the ashtray is full or the antenna extended. So much to car analogies.

"If you need help, give me a ring (but i won't answer because i have the phone in silent mode, i'll call you back when i feel like it, maybe next week.)"

My problem with 7.10 was not with Grub, as turned out. The splash screen, for one, isn't part of Grub but part of Ubuntu (for it appears AFTER Grub). Plus Grub itself loaded fine - yet Ubuntu, which Grub started, refused to start. I know boot managers under Windows are fugly, too, but just like Grub you don't get to see them for long - like on my Windows machine, the option to switch between OS's is there for three seconds then it defaults to Vista.

And lastly - uptime. Servers usually run a non-GUI system without any bells and whistles. Something like good old DOS. There sure isn't too much that could cause them to crash. But for you or me, Joe User, mouse pusher, would it be usefull? I doubt it. Servers do just that - they serve. Nothing more. And in Germany i had Windows 98 up, running and online, for several MONTHS at a time, being channel OP on an IRC network. It ran on a 486 machine with 48 MB of RAM and a 1.7 GB hard drive! And here at the office i have a Compaq Deskpro on Windows XP running since late September last year, on a UPS, it hasn't been turned off or rebooted in all that time. Plain bare bones XP and two applications - one for our security cameras to record the video during night time, the other uTorrent (this is the machine i use to grab my Linux distro iso files). Oh, the Windows by the way is SP2 and no further updates, auto-update etc is DISABLED so it can't be forced to do a reboot

Regards

Thanh

Edited by Thanh-BKK, 2008-04-02 12:27:32.

[Thanh-BKK]

By the way......

Just started download of "Mandriva Linux One". As i said, i am open minded to try them all and find one that works. On their site it says to enable 3D i need "Nvidia Geforce or later". Well, Ubuntu should mention that, too....... so at least i know now why it never works.

Regards.....

Thanh

[hp8000]

Now if you're downloading Mandriva One, why not give it a try in LiveCD mode on your main machine ? You will at least see what works or not.

And don't forget to have a look at this (very important) page: Forum Mandriva

as well as this one: Wiki Mandriva


@RKASA: Mandriva One come with most of the drivers pre-installed as it's a LiveCD. If you plan to install it on the harddrive you could then want to remove all the unwanted one as I did to keep the system cleaner and avoid useless updates. It can be done through the package manager. Good testing.

Edited by hp8000, 2008-04-02 12:53:34.

[bkkguy1970]

cophen, on 2008-04-02 02:10:09, said:

I've read recently that there's a Linux distribution that installs in a Windows folder rather than needing drive repartioning. Can anyone tell me what it's called please?

the Ubuntu 8.04 Beta includes Wubi which needs no playing around with the partition table or the MBR. it is an install routine that can be run under Windows to install Ubuntu into a large file in the Windows filesystem. It also adds Ubuntu to the Windows boot menu so you can choose at boot to start windows or Ubuntu. there is also an unitstall program that runs under windows to remove the file and the boot entry

http://www.ubuntu.co...ting/hardy/beta

http://wubi-installer.org/

bkkguy