Zundapp For Sale?!?!?
8 replies to this topic
Posted 2008-06-19 18:29:09
Just saw this post. What Zundapp was it? As the link no longer works ("Posting expired"). I am only interested in the KS 50 series (529 primarily) or the KS 175.
On E-Bay (Germany) there are always some, and they fetch CRAZY prices. Like all those 517's which 15 years ago were put in sheds and forgotten or simply thrown away (!) because nobody wanted "that old junk" anymore, now they sell for up to 3,500 Euros (!!) in good condition and still beyond 1,000 Euro for one that looks like fresh from the junk yard.......
If i still had all the mopeds and parts that i've thrown away or sold for pennies myself in 1996 when i moved, i would become a millionaire - and that's not a joke.
Maybe some day i'll get a KS 50 engine in here and hang it under an RXZ....... i guess having an engine change registered in the book is way cheaper than importing a bike and getting THAT street legal
Posted 2008-06-19 18:41:36
My first antique bike, a zundapp 650 I believe with steib sidecar. What a fine machine, caged needle bearings on every surface of the crank and piston, chain and sprocket gearbox, what a joy. I believe it was about 15 metric tons dry, felt like it anyway.
Posted 2008-06-19 19:17:38
Some from E-Bay:
A 517 KS 50 SuperSport, sold for 3,900 Euros
A 518 KS 100, those are rather rare - but look at it, NOTHING original, badly painted etc.... cheap at 2,850 Euros
One of the last to leave the Zundapp factory in 1984 - 540 GTS 50 WC. Close to 1,000 Euros.
517 KS 50 Cross (incorrectly labeled as a "SuperSport") at 3,200 Euros - i bought one such for 50 Euros (!!) in junky condition in 1993 or so and sold it for 400 (converted from 100 respective 800 Deutschmark - there was no Euro back then)
A real beauty - 529 C50 Sport, sold for 980 Euros. I had one of that same type, in that same colour and all, i did more than 50.000 kilometers on it, no moped could ever be more reliable...... i sold mine (in little worse condition) for 500 DM (250 Euros).
VERY rare! 520 GS 125 Scrambler, but at over 4,000 Euros (!!!) definitely wayyyyy overpriced
A 530 KS 80 with lots of modifications, at an absolutely crazy 4,999 Euros "direct buy" and been offered 2,079 Euros......
This is only a front light housing, on "sale" for 375 Euros (!!) I have thrown a number of these away because i didn't know what to do with - they only fit the 517 models and nobody wanted to buy them off me!
Another one such, this time with light.... sold for an absolutely insane 590 Euros.
A poor 529 GTS 50...... with KS 50 WC engine, many bits missing, no papers, no keys and not driveable. Sold for 303 Euros (i would have bought it for that price, too! For the engine alone).
Another 517 KS 50, sold for 1,870 Euros.....
A 517 GTS 50, looks almost like the KS 50 (very small difference, primarily the engine power as the KS is unrestricted "class A" while the GTS is a moped), sold for almost identical price - 1,811 Euros.
A 529 KS 50, minus engine, exhaust and carb, and with non-original wheels.... still sold for 634 Euros. guess what? I had such one, same year (1977) and colour (it and my C560 Sport were like twins really) and was able to sell it for the equivalent of 250 Euros - complete and original! In 1996.
You see, plenty of Zundapp's available for those with large bank accounts.... unfortunately not for me, so i keep riding RXZ
Posted 2008-06-20 00:27:53
I was wondering why you were so quiet! You may not have been interested in it. It was a 1960 Zundapp "Super Sabre" 250cc singe/2-stroke. There was a picture and description in the ad. The engine was in the bike and running. The bodywork/sheetmetal was taken off of the bike (it looked like they were in the process of restoring it) and was included (you just had to put it back on the bike). All for $1,000 USD (or best offer). I think the Euro is more than the dollar, so it was less than 1,000 Euros.
This was the only time I have ever seen a Zundapp for sale in the U.S. I don't actually think they were imported here after the 1960's (at least officially--I have never heard of the brand nor ever seen it for sale). I would also add that German collectors are picking up their old machines from America and taking them back. I ended up shipping a 1965 Porsche 911 (the 1,891st ever made) back to Germany to some collector. I picked it up for $1,500 out of some guy's yard, and after selling the spare parts (he was going to put an aftermarket fiberglass 'update' kit on it) the car was free. I sold it for $3,000 to some German named Mannfred Herring who was so overjoyed just to find one (I guess the ones still in Germany were all rusted). This was a few years ago, and when I realize how much it is worth now, I kick myself.
Posted 2008-06-20 14:51:52
I have no idea what a "Super Sabre" is but, judging by the year it was made and the engine size it could be one of the "DB" series, probably a 201 or 201 S.
Rather rare, but back then those had the image of being a "farmer's bike" and where not really popular, and that carries thru today - collector's aren't really after these, i have been offered a '60 DB 201 S once for 500 DM (250 Euros) in driveable condition, but i, too, declined - difficult to get spare parts and not much power to ride it daily, and just to put it on display i had no space.
Zuendapp has not exported all too many models - the DB series amongs them, as well as the "GS" series scramblers with 50, 75, 100 and 125 cc. The GS 50 and GS 75 are about the rarest Zundapp bikes to be found today, with the 50 NOT being a moped but an unrestricted one. Within Europe Zundapp exported mainly mopeds and the KS 125, of which the WC version was built ONLY for export. And due to their exporting moped misunderstandings can arise - so a Dutch "KS 50" is a moped while the German one is unrestricted, the Swedish is again a moped and in Austria it's available as moped AND "open".
Zundapp also exported the water cooled 125cc engines, mainly to Italy, where Laverda built a series of bikes based on that engine.
And there were license builders too - in Portugal not one but TWO firms built Zundapp 50cc engines in license and added frames of their own - "Famel" and "Casal", they carried on for a while even after the original Zundapp in Germany closed in 1984. Portugal still has Zundapp parts made today on original tooling, particularly "Jamarcol" still supplies the only decent 50cc exhaust ever made - that of the KS 50
Another license builder was "Enfield", yup the same one that is "Royal Enfield", in India. They built a number of Zundapp models, the ZX 25 (Enfield "Silver Star" but as two-seater and unrestricted), CS 25 (Enfield "Sprinter", only for export to Europe, i actually sold a number of them), CS 50 (Enfield "Explorer", unrestricted in India but moped for export to Europe) and finally the KS 175 (Enfield "Fury") which was India's most modern bike for quite some time. They even built, well in the late 90's and looong after Zundapp itself ceased to exist, an entirely new version of it - the "Fury GP", which is an extremely cool bike
And lastly, what happened to Zundapp itself? The last production line, which made the 540 models K80 and K80 WC, was completely (!) sold to China and there anew brand was born - Xunda Tianjing, which started building K80's in 1986 and continued on until about mid 90's when the factory was taken over by Honda. One model was built "inbetween" which is a Zundapp K80 with the almost-universal Honda Cub engine - 90cc this one. It's called a Honda TH 90 Xunda also boredup the engines and sold finally K100 and K120 versions, of which a number made it to Europe, imported by "Zuntrade" in Holland. They still sell brand new engines and even whole bikes, but i don't know if that is old stock or if someone in China took the leftovers of Xunda (after Honda took over) and keeps producing small-scale.
Zundapp always had a "building block" system where parts were interchangeable - for example any of Zundapp's 50, 75, 80, 100, 125 and 175 cc engines fit into any frame for any of the types - the Dutch are these days specialised in building extreme custom mopeds where they take 50cc mopeds, stuff 175 cc engines in them, add a ton of airbrush and chrome etc...... the results are stunning. And at all time youngsters tuned their Zundapps not by porting their cylinders but by simply swapping engines - a KS 50 or KS 80 engine in a GTS, a KS 125 engine if you could find one...... or simply the KS 50 cylinder on anything that had 50 cc, even the 25 km/h restricted "Mofas" which then were not quite as restricted anymore
I myself owned around 50 Zundapps, many of them only for short times as i constantly bought and sold them, but i drove a good many of them, including two of the 529 KS 50's and one KS 175. I worked in a repair shop specialized on Zundapp and had every single 50 and 80 cc model in my hands that they ever built.
My heart will always beat for ZUNDAPP.
Posted 2008-06-20 15:07:08
Here's one example of the Dutch extreme customizing (they do more than i with my Bulldozer Yamaha RXZ!):
Frame and tank: C50 Super, circa 1965
Wheels: 530 KS 80, heavily modified to take dual discs (front) and disc (rear)
Rear swing arm: 517 GTS or C50 Sport
Rear shocks: 529 C50 Sport
Front fork: heavily modified 529 KS 80, left side taking 2nd brake caliper
Headlight/housing: 517 KS 50
Steering bars: 517 KS 50 Super Sport
Seat: probably 517 GTS, as the C50 Super is a single-seater
Engine and exhaust: KS 125!!
Gotta love it........
Posted 2008-06-21 11:53:36
Used to have a KS 50 in the late 90's, bought for the equivalent of 15,000 Baht and sold for 12,000 Baht
Was very much in vogue back then for the simple reason the engines could be tuned a lot for little money.
By law in Belgium, mopeds (<50cc) are only allowed a top speed of 40 km/h. Change the exhaust and sprockets, and the Zundapp would happily (but illegally) trundle along at over 80 km/h!
Jeesus, 3500 Euros buys me 4 Honda clicks over here...