846 replies to this topic
Posted 2008-06-20 15:38:56
 davejonesbkk, on 2008-06-20 03:25:41, said:
What is the actual point of this protest? Do the PAD seriously think that the Government will step down or are they hoping for another coup?
I guess they hope Samak resigns and the coallition party's jump-ship's (Banharn raised a similar opinion last week, so did Chavilit today)
to the opposition: The Democrats. I'm sure everyone agrees that a further coup is a big waste of time and no-one will gain anything (we just loose another
2-3 years and Thaksin's pro and the western world will not accept any court-ruling under military rule, even if correctly and fair done).
We need an honest party (the best honest party) with intelligent people on the top, working for the country, not for themselves, or any Puppet-Master.
Currently only K. Korn, K'Abhisit etc. would be able to guide Thailand out of this mess, in a policital correct democratic way!
Maybe this will happen soon, thanks to the PAD, who are not giving up for the right of "oppression against big time corruptions & cheatings".
Think mid-to longterm, not only see the people on the streets as the reason for economical depression. This vision is short-shighted and
the fact, what is going on already since 2001/2 when Thaksin took over, and removed most governmental check & balances and started
robbing this country, in big scale (and still is doing with tax-payers money).
Posted 2008-06-20 15:40:01
I think this is a very strange situation. Who is responsible? The entire Thai political system. I wonder whether there is any way out!
It might be that the Thai society is not yet mature enough for a real democracy. I do not intend to offend Thai people in saying this, but the way the country is going now doesn't do good for anyone....
Posted 2008-06-20 15:40:30
wrecker, on 2008-06-20 15:35:57, said: It is pretty sad that a group of a few thousand undemocratic people (no election result that goes against them will ever be accepted) can hold a country hostage. They block roads, prevent people from reaching their work, they have been able to block the UN gates so help for Burma could not go out and today we have the march of the short fuses.
Even worse is that their leaders publicly stated that they prefer dictatorship above a democratically elected government. These are sick people, and the government should come down on them in full force. Everybody has the right to demonstrate, but Chamlong is a extortionist who is given to much freedom. First they let him paralize traffic and business near MKB center for months now they do not dare to exterminate him again. This probably due to the fact that he is backed by prem and friends. Luckily for us they are all old people, which will no longer be able to push their own agenda which held Thailand backwards for so long. I am neither a Abbhisit nor a Thaksin supporter, but any country from which the happy few are in the habbit not to accept a governement which has a 2/3 majority is in dire straits.
Investors will run for cover and they will end up next door in Cambodia or Malaysia and rightly so.
block the UN gates so help for Burma could not go out 
Posted 2008-06-20 15:41:40
wrecker, on 2008-06-20 15:35:57, said: It is pretty sad that a group of a few thousand undemocratic people (no election result that goes against them will ever be accepted) can hold a country hostage. They block roads, prevent people from reaching their work, they have been able to block the UN gates so help for Burma could not go out and today we have the march of the short fuses.
Even worse is that their leaders publicly stated that they prefer dictatorship above a democratically elected government. These are sick people, and the government should come down on them in full force. Everybody has the right to demonstrate, but Chamlong is a extortionist who is given to much freedom. First they let him paralize traffic and business near MKB center for months now they do not dare to exterminate him again. This probably due to the fact that he is backed by prem and friends. Luckily for us they are all old people, which will no longer be able to push their own agenda which held Thailand backwards for so long. I am neither a Abbhisit nor a Thaksin supporter, but any country from which the happy few are in the habbit not to accept a governement which has a 2/3 majority is in dire straits.
Investors will run for cover and they will end up next door in Cambodia or Malaysia and rightly so.
Demonstrations are part of any democratic society. Mostly governments negotiate with them or ignore them. Some governments or ministers fall becuase of them. It is just democracy in action as long as they stay peaceful and Chamlong has today reiterated that they will use civil disobedience which is not violent.
We should also hope that the Daad also stick to these principles.
Posted 2008-06-20 15:42:38
moo9, on 2008-06-20 15:40:01, said: I think this is a very strange situation. Who is responsible? The entire Thai political system. I wonder whether there is any way out!
It might be that the Thai society is not yet mature enough for a real democracy. I do not intend to offend Thai people in saying this, but the way the country is going now doesn't do good for anyone....
i agree with you on this one....
Posted 2008-06-20 15:47:37
hammered, on 2008-06-20 15:41:40, said: wrecker, on 2008-06-20 15:35:57, said: It is pretty sad that a group of a few thousand undemocratic people (no election result that goes against them will ever be accepted) can hold a country hostage. They block roads, prevent people from reaching their work, they have been able to block the UN gates so help for Burma could not go out and today we have the march of the short fuses.
Even worse is that their leaders publicly stated that they prefer dictatorship above a democratically elected government. These are sick people, and the government should come down on them in full force. Everybody has the right to demonstrate, but Chamlong is a extortionist who is given to much freedom. First they let him paralize traffic and business near MKB center for months now they do not dare to exterminate him again. This probably due to the fact that he is backed by prem and friends. Luckily for us they are all old people, which will no longer be able to push their own agenda which held Thailand backwards for so long. I am neither a Abbhisit nor a Thaksin supporter, but any country from which the happy few are in the habbit not to accept a governement which has a 2/3 majority is in dire straits.
Investors will run for cover and they will end up next door in Cambodia or Malaysia and rightly so.
Demonstrations are part of any democratic society. Mostly governments negotiate with them or ignore them. Some governments or ministers fall becuase of them. It is just democracy in action as long as they stay peaceful and Chamlong has today reiterated that they will use civil disobedience which is not violent.
We should also hope that the Daad also stick to these principles.
What was the estimated turn out for the DAAD? 500? Small blip on the radar by the sounds of it.
Of course, there could be an active, last minute recruitment effort going on in the sticks, or maybe the cost of hiring these "protesters" is starting to take its toll?
Posted 2008-06-20 15:49:01
moo9, on 2008-06-20 15:40:01, said: I think this is a very strange situation. Who is responsible? The entire Thai political system. I wonder whether there is any way out!
It might be that the Thai society is not yet mature enough for a real democracy. I do not intend to offend Thai people in saying this, but the way the country is going now doesn't do good for anyone....
When you remember Thaksin was the first democratically elected PM ever to serve a full term... Ever !!! In the entire course of Thailands history..
As simple a thing as voting in a government, letting them serve thier term.. then voting again for the next lot based on their performance.. Has happened once..
Its just us new arrivals who see this as a circus... this is normal Thai politics.
Posted 2008-06-20 15:49:46
Insight, on 2008-06-20 15:47:37, said: hammered, on 2008-06-20 15:41:40, said: wrecker, on 2008-06-20 15:35:57, said: It is pretty sad that a group of a few thousand undemocratic people (no election result that goes against them will ever be accepted) can hold a country hostage. They block roads, prevent people from reaching their work, they have been able to block the UN gates so help for Burma could not go out and today we have the march of the short fuses.
Even worse is that their leaders publicly stated that they prefer dictatorship above a democratically elected government. These are sick people, and the government should come down on them in full force. Everybody has the right to demonstrate, but Chamlong is a extortionist who is given to much freedom. First they let him paralize traffic and business near MKB center for months now they do not dare to exterminate him again. This probably due to the fact that he is backed by prem and friends. Luckily for us they are all old people, which will no longer be able to push their own agenda which held Thailand backwards for so long. I am neither a Abbhisit nor a Thaksin supporter, but any country from which the happy few are in the habbit not to accept a governement which has a 2/3 majority is in dire straits.
Investors will run for cover and they will end up next door in Cambodia or Malaysia and rightly so.
Demonstrations are part of any democratic society. Mostly governments negotiate with them or ignore them. Some governments or ministers fall becuase of them. It is just democracy in action as long as they stay peaceful and Chamlong has today reiterated that they will use civil disobedience which is not violent.
We should also hope that the Daad also stick to these principles.
What was the estimated turn out for the DAAD? 500? Small blip on the radar by the sounds of it.
Of course, there could be an active, last minute recruitment effort going on in the sticks, or maybe the cost of hiring these "protesters" is starting to take its toll?
I noticed no shortage of motorbike taxi's working today. 
Posted 2008-06-20 15:49:49
The sooner Thaksin faces justice, the sooner these wounds in society will heal.
Posted 2008-06-20 15:49:52
Prakanong, on 2008-06-20 15:23:35, said: Plus, on 2008-06-20 16:19:25, said:
Why do you not go along instead of being a keyboard hero - still time big man - go show you have a pair!
I've got a trip to Laksi, then get kids from school, then offload them to their mother.
Last time I almost made it (the crackdown Saturday), unfortunately Chalerm showed up on TV and pooped the party.
>>>
Samak can very well resign without any major repercussions. Someone else will be elected from among the House members. As long as the House is not dissolved, "people" have nothing to complain about - their election job ended at ticking their local and party list MPs. Prime Minister selection is responsibility of the parlament, even forming government and opposition blocks is out of people's hands. They can only complain if the party of their choice is dissolved, leaving them without representation.
I don't see any other reason to speak of PAD "overturning of the elections" - they can legitimately persuade some political parties to change alliances.
And PAD hasn't done anything wrong if you accept that citizens participation in democracy spread way beyond the election day.
Either way - PAD is not a threat to democracy the same way a coup is.
Posted 2008-06-20 15:50:59
Boater, on 2008-06-20 15:42:38, said: moo9, on 2008-06-20 15:40:01, said: I think this is a very strange situation. Who is responsible? The entire Thai political system. I wonder whether there is any way out!
It might be that the Thai society is not yet mature enough for a real democracy. I do not intend to offend Thai people in saying this, but the way the country is going now doesn't do good for anyone....
i agree with you on this one....
Well it seems that we have got through the surround of government house without violence and lets hope it stays that way.
After this it is time for talk. There has to be an agreement on a way out of the impasse that isnt about personal agendas.
Posted 2008-06-20 15:50:59
h90, on 2008-06-20 16:34:36, said: Prakanong, on 2008-06-20 15:22:09, said: h90, on 2008-06-20 15:03:01, said: Tonyzill, on 2008-06-20 13:52:26, said: History shows when demonstrations of this kind build up as they seem to be inevitably there will be trouble. Despite the PAD saying it will be a peaceful march there will be those that want to cause trouble and once it starts the ending is always the same as the police have no choice but to do something. I hope it doesnt happen but that would contradict everything that has happened before.
Romania, If I remember right, they went into Parliament behead the Dictator and got democracy......
They did not behead the dictator in Romania - he and his wife were shot
Like it or not PPP won a democratic election - we can see that you would like violence to get your own way - that big a man in real life are we and are you prepared to behead the dictator yourself or are you a coward to sit on the sidelines egging others on?
Foreigners like you wanting to destroy democracy in Thailand if found out should be deported and all properties in the country confiscated and given to the crown!
If PAD want to remove the government maybe they should do it at the ballot box like civil members of a democratic society.
I may not like or agree with Samak et al but I would not condone viloence or a coup like small minded men
and again, they were not democratic elected.......
and again...Hitler was also democratic elected......
but that is discussed more then enough.
Please explain how they were not elected properly then formed a coalition government?
You really are clutching as very shakey intellectual straws with puny arguments
Forget all that though - show your cojones and get doen there man and fight for what you belive in -are you a man or a mouse?
Do something for once in your life - get out there
Guess not!
Posted 2008-06-20 15:52:48
hammered, on 2008-06-20 16:50:59, said: Boater, on 2008-06-20 15:42:38, said: moo9, on 2008-06-20 15:40:01, said: I think this is a very strange situation. Who is responsible? The entire Thai political system. I wonder whether there is any way out!
It might be that the Thai society is not yet mature enough for a real democracy. I do not intend to offend Thai people in saying this, but the way the country is going now doesn't do good for anyone....
i agree with you on this one....
Well it seems that we have got through the surround of government house without violence and lets hope it stays that way.
After this it is time for talk. There has to be an agreement on a way out of the impasse that isnt about personal agendas.
Another election - and what will the result of that be
Maybe the Democrats win - will that allow the people off the north and north east to demand their resignation because they do not like them even if they are in the minority or is it just Bangkok that counts in protests?
Then again who could afford to fight election after election - it might end up like American politics ;-)
Edited by Prakanong, 2008-06-20 15:53:50.
Posted 2008-06-20 15:52:53
very confusing situation. I tried to read up on all the issues. and just when you think you have an idea what is going on, more information comes in. so, I decided to just leave it alone.
Posted 2008-06-20 15:54:10
[quote name='Prakanong' post='2044110' date='2008-06-20 15:50:59'][quote name='h90' post='2044071' date='2008-06-20 16:34:36'][quote name='Prakanong' post='2044041' date='2008-06-20 15:22:09'][quote name='h90' post='2043901' date='2008-06-20 15:03:01'][quote name='Tonyzill' post='2043875' date='2008-06-20 13:52:26']History shows when demonstrations of this kind build up as they seem to be inevitably there will be trouble. Despite the PAD saying it will be a peaceful march there will be those that want to cause trouble and once it starts the ending is always the same as the police have no choice but to do something. I hope it doesnt happen but that would contradict everything that has happened before.[/quote]
Romania, If I remember right, they went into Parliament behead the Dictator and got democracy......
[/quote]
They did not behead the dictator in Romania - he and his wife were shot
Like it or not PPP won a democratic election - we can see that you would like violence to get your own way - that big a man in real life are we and are you prepared to behead the dictator yourself or are you a coward to sit on the sidelines egging others on?
Foreigners like you wanting to destroy democracy in Thailand if found out should be deported and all properties in the country confiscated and given to the crown!
If PAD want to remove the government maybe they should do it at the ballot box like civil members of a democratic society.
I may not like or agree with Samak et al but I would not condone viloence or a coup like small minded men
[/quote]
and again, they were not democratic elected.......
and again...Hitler was also democratic elected......
but that is discussed more then enough.
[/quote]
Please explain how they were not elected properly then formed a coalition government?
You really are clutching as very shakey intellectual straws with puny arguments
Forget all that though - show your cojones and get doen there man and fight for what you belive in -are you a man or a mouse?
Do something for once in your life - get out there
Guess not!
[/quote]
It really isnt the role of foreigners to get invovled in Thai politcs. Discussing it may be something some enjoym, and why not, but to get directly involvved is wrong imho
Posted 2008-06-20 15:55:59
nomoretalksin, on 2008-06-20 12:56:53, said: For those who don't know yet, you can get more or less "English live commentary coverage now on TOC"
http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/
This station belongs to one of the PAD Leaders: K. Sondhi.
Coverage is quite neutral, and also discusses the pro's and contras.
ASTV meanhwile, the Thai Station normaly covering live, is currently blocked (guess by goverment).
I was able to reach the above link about 30 minutes ago, but it's gone for me now. I'm getting a '404' error. Guess "they" have shut down that site now.
Posted 2008-06-20 15:57:22
ASTV reports that Samak called an urgent meeting with army chief Anupong Paochinda.
Posted 2008-06-20 15:57:23
Prakanong, on 2008-06-20 15:52:48, said: hammered, on 2008-06-20 16:50:59, said: Boater, on 2008-06-20 15:42:38, said: moo9, on 2008-06-20 15:40:01, said: I think this is a very strange situation. Who is responsible? The entire Thai political system. I wonder whether there is any way out!
It might be that the Thai society is not yet mature enough for a real democracy. I do not intend to offend Thai people in saying this, but the way the country is going now doesn't do good for anyone....
i agree with you on this one....
Well it seems that we have got through the surround of government house without violence and lets hope it stays that way.
After this it is time for talk. There has to be an agreement on a way out of the impasse that isnt about personal agendas.
Another election - and what will the result of that be
Maybe the Democrats win - will that allow the people off the north and north east to demand their resignation because they do not like them even if they are in the minority or is it just Bangkok that counts in protests?
Then again who could afford to fight election after election - it might end up like American politics ;-)
Persoanlly I have thought since before the coup a national unity government for a set period may be the best way. However, it doesnt seem many in Thailand with power even mention this idea.
Posted 2008-06-20 16:00:22
bubba, on 2008-06-20 15:55:59, said: nomoretalksin, on 2008-06-20 12:56:53, said: For those who don't know yet, you can get more or less "English live commentary coverage now on TOC"
http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/
This station belongs to one of the PAD Leaders: K. Sondhi.
Coverage is quite neutral, and also discusses the pro's and contras.
ASTV meanhwile, the Thai Station normaly covering live, is currently blocked (guess by goverment).
I was able to reach the above link about 30 minutes ago, but it's gone for me now. I'm getting a '404' error. Guess "they" have shut down that site now.
The page cannot be found
The page you are looking for might have been removed, had its name changed, or is temporarily unavailable.
Please try the following:
Make sure that the Web site address displayed in the address bar of your browser is spelled and formatted correctly.
If you reached this page by clicking a link, contact the Web site administrator to alert them that the link is incorrectly formatted.
Click the Back button to try another link.
HTTP Error 404 - File or directory not found.
Internet Information Services (IIS)
Technical Information (for support personnel)
Go to Microsoft Product Support Services and perform a title search for the words HTTP and 404.
Open IIS Help, which is accessible in IIS Manager (inetmgr), and search for topics titled Web Site Setup, Common Administrative Tasks, and About Custom Error Messages.
Nope.. Watching it and streaming quite well here... Maxnet Premier.
http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/
Posted 2008-06-20 16:02:48
"Persoanlly I have thought since before the coup a national unity government for a set period may be the best way. However, it doesnt seem many in Thailand with power even mention this idea."
Maybe but who decides who leads - its a bit like Prem trying to be the unifying guy after the coup
I just think the two sides are too far apart.
Posted 2008-06-20 16:06:21
[quote name='Prakanong' post='2044110' date='2008-06-20 15:50:59'][quote name='h90' post='2044071' date='2008-06-20 16:34:36'][quote name='Prakanong' post='2044041' date='2008-06-20 15:22:09'][quote name='h90' post='2043901' date='2008-06-20 15:03:01'][quote name='Tonyzill' post='2043875' date='2008-06-20 13:52:26']History shows when demonstrations of this kind build up as they seem to be inevitably there will be trouble. Despite the PAD saying it will be a peaceful march there will be those that want to cause trouble and once it starts the ending is always the same as the police have no choice but to do something. I hope it doesnt happen but that would contradict everything that has happened before.[/quote]
Romania, If I remember right, they went into Parliament behead the Dictator and got democracy......
[/quote]
They did not behead the dictator in Romania - he and his wife were shot
Like it or not PPP won a democratic election - we can see that you would like violence to get your own way - that big a man in real life are we and are you prepared to behead the dictator yourself or are you a coward to sit on the sidelines egging others on?
Foreigners like you wanting to destroy democracy in Thailand if found out should be deported and all properties in the country confiscated and given to the crown!
If PAD want to remove the government maybe they should do it at the ballot box like civil members of a democratic society.
I may not like or agree with Samak et al but I would not condone viloence or a coup like small minded men
[/quote]
and again, they were not democratic elected.......
and again...Hitler was also democratic elected......
but that is discussed more then enough.
[/quote]
Please explain how they were not elected properly then formed a coalition government?
You really are clutching as very shakey intellectual straws with puny arguments
Forget all that though - show your cojones and get doen there man and fight for what you belive in -are you a man or a mouse?
Do something for once in your life - get out there
Guess not!
[/quote]
Not again...vote buyin, election commission influenced etc etc....
As the PPP didn't win that much, a small change would have brought a complete different government.
But there is already 2 miles of postings about that, don't want to start that again.
The vote buying is well known, everyone knows it....and no the others are not the same.....
Posted 2008-06-20 16:08:16
"The vote buying is well known, everyone knows it....and no the others are not the same..."
Bwhaaaaaaaaaa
The others are not the same?
You are kidding me on - you just came up the Chao Phrya in banana boat?
Posted 2008-06-20 16:10:37
Is selling parliament to the highest bidder a "democracy"?
Posted 2008-06-20 16:12:34
bubba, on 2008-06-20 15:55:59, said: nomoretalksin, on 2008-06-20 12:56:53, said: For those who don't know yet, you can get more or less "English live commentary coverage now on TOC"
http://www.thailandoutlook.tv/
This station belongs to one of the PAD Leaders: K. Sondhi.
Coverage is quite neutral, and also discusses the pro's and contras.
ASTV meanhwile, the Thai Station normaly covering live, is currently blocked (guess by goverment).
I was able to reach the above link about 30 minutes ago, but it's gone for me now. I'm getting a '404' error. Guess "they" have shut down that site now.
4.12 buddy internet: Working
Posted 2008-06-20 16:15:31
Prakanong, on 2008-06-20 16:08:16, said: "The vote buying is well known, everyone knows it....and no the others are not the same..."
Bwhaaaaaaaaaa
The others are not the same?
You are kidding me on - you just came up the Chao Phrya in banana boat?
where are the complains about the Democrates bought votes?
In the south, in the north, in Isaan????
Where?
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