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[Mapguy]

I have not been able to locate an "organized" up-to-date discussion on Maharaj (also commonly known as Suan Dok), the "teaching hospital" of the Faculty of Medicine and Faculty of Nursing of Chiang Mai University. The Maharaj "complex" is found on Suthep Road just west of the moat between the moat and Sirimangkalajan Road. It is a large government hospital with a special clinic called the Special Medical Center. That clinic is located on the 13th floor of the building immediately west of and adjacent to the Faculty of Nursing. It is the tall building closest to the moat. It has its own outside entrance (marked by a sign) close to the road.

This is an invitation to discuss this hospital clinic specifically, not other hospitals, in an attempt to focus the discussion. The Service Center (clinic) is where most farang would go for treatment at the facility. In addition to the clinic, there is a floor (14th) of very, very nice rooms comparable to or better than those at Chiang Mai Ram.

In a similar thread on Chiang Mai Ram I Hospital, it was noted quite reasonably that hospital experiences are largely subjective, but I still believe a lot can be learned. To start things off, here are some general comments from limited experience of my own thus far including those of friends.

The clinic is a relatively crowded place where you might not be seen immediately on a "drop in" visit, but it is a clinic for many medical school faculty. Many specialists are available. Many do not work exclusively there, but there are more of them generally

For general cost, previous comments in various threads indicate that services and drugs are cheaper than at Chiang Mai Ram Hospital, which is designed to serve farang with the least "fuss" (with greater expense to them).

Another previous post indicated that English is not as widely spoken at Maharaj as at Ram. My personal experience is that this is certainly not true of the doctors and many nurses, and that a little patience and a smile will get you the help you need in a hurry.

It seems that sometimes the administrative and communications lines are awkward between the service center and the government side of Maharaj, which might cause a problem upon admission to the trauma center, but all that can be ironed out. It seems some doctors don't necessarily work both "sides" of the hospital. If you have a physician, say a cardiologist, who doesn't work the government side, then you should clarify that with your doctor in advance in case you might be rushed to the trauma center some day. This is not to say you won't find a highly qualified doctor to attend to you at the center. It is not a hot shots to the right and charletans to the left situation. But you should be clear what area of the hospital to which you want to be admitted in case you start at the trauma center. The government side has regular, better and best rooms. The 14th Floor above the center is very classy.

Regarding practitioners at the hospital, I'd like to start with a question. Does anyone have anything to tell us about Dr. Arnon Chotironiramit, a surgeon?

[Ulysses G.]

I get the feeling that Suan Doc Hospital is the best deal for foreigners who speak some Thai and feel at home in Thailand. The few times that I have been there, I was pleased, but if I had not spoken Thai to the point that I do, there would have been little communication.
Hopefully, any kind of specialists would have spoken English well because there are Medical questions that must be answered exactly and my Thai is not up to that.

[p1p]

The one time I went to see a doctor there, I was seen by an American! He teaches at the medical school and practices at both the Family Center and the 13th floor special clinic on a couple of mornings a week. Dr Greg, if memory serves me correctly..
I have also had to go there to have special prescriptions filled. Written by a doctor at his clinic outside the hospital for drugs that are unavailable elsewhere, even Ram. The Thai pharmacy will not fill them but insist I go to the special clinic to pay then collect the medicine from downstairs.
TIT I suppose!

[chiangmaibruce]

OK well we have been to the Special Medical Service many times now. My wife had our son there - I'm pretty sure she stayed in a room on the 14th floor. She had a great doctor (can't remember his name just now) and I really could not fault either him or the care she received. Add in the fact that the cost was very reasonable, they get full marks. In the birth room there was the doctor and three nurses for example, and they had a surgery room on standby in case a cesarian was required. We got some sort of package that included two nights stay, but they threw in a third because she was not released from the maternity ward till very late on the first night.

We have not been so impressed with subsequent visits related to health issues with our son, and I have mentioned this in another thread about kids doctors. Basically seems to be a case of different pills every time (at least one of which is invariably a strong anti-biotic) but no clear idea of the root cause of the problem. But the doctors have always been pleasant, spoke adequate or good english, and were happy to answer questions.

Yes, you will wait there to see a doctor, but we have never had to wait an outrageously long time - maybe one hour tops. And there is a good little shop there (13th floor) where the mini apple crumbles and coconut cake are not bad at all, plus a canteen on a lower floor.

[Mapguy]

I have started both this and the most recent Chiang Mai Ram threads. Here there are three good replies thus far, but there are more than 30 on the Chiang Mai Ram thread. That might mean that a very large number of readers here only go to Chiang Mai Ram. Do you think that's true?

Oh, by the way, I have since visited a surgeon at Suan Doc. I have no complaints. It cost half the Chiang Mai Ram rate. (No, I don't work for the hospital!) I think what UG had to say is useful, but I suggest that it is not overly difficult to communicate, just easier at Ram where it is not so crowded and so on. Additionally, many Thai friends have told me that there are more qualified specialists at Suan Doc. I can't vouch for that.

Edited by Mapguy, 2008-07-16 01:36:35.

[earlofwindermere]

My opinion is that Suan DOk/ Special Medical Services is a much better hospital than Ram. The doctors seem much more competent than Ram's. I'm not sure if I agree with the Thai language bit though. It's true that many of the nurses don't speak English but I've never had a problem with the doctors.

Normal visits were quicker than Ram...but we did have to wait some time for a few specialites (like EENTs). But, a plus side is that there always seems to be a doctor available including a pediatrician 24 hours per day.

We had a child born at Ram and a child born at Special Medical Services (by the same doctor). Special Medical Services was not only much cheaper but the overall experience was better. The only negative aspect in my opinion was that it doesn't look as nice as Ram.

I've also heard that doctors at Special Medical Services have to be one of the top in their profession in the city. I believe that all teach at CMU as well. I'm not sure you can say the same about Ram's doctors.

[uptheos]

Mapguy, on 2008-07-16 01:34:38, said:

I have started both this and the most recent Chiang Mai Ram threads. Here there are three good replies thus far, but there are more than 30 on the Chiang Mai Ram thread. That might mean that a very large number of readers here only go to Chiang Mai Ram. Do you think that's true?

Oh, by the way, I have since visited a surgeon at Suan Doc. I have no complaints. It cost half the Chiang Mai Ram rate. (No, I don't work for the hospital!) I think what UG had to say is useful, but I suggest that it is not overly difficult to communicate, just easier at Ram where it is not so crowded and so on. Additionally, many Thai friends have told me that there are more qualified specialists at Suan Doc. I can't vouch for that.

I have had two sugical procedures at SM centre at Suan Doc. Both were successful and comparable to anything I'd receive on the NHS - if not better.

I don't mind giving names and procedures if it can assist others.
I had a gall bladder removed via laparoscopy, in and out in two days, by Dr Sandhu Trichak associate professor of surgery at CMU - Mob: 0818813416 (not great English but OK) and a TURP - 5 day stay, by Dr Bunnakit Mob: 0818824085 - don't know his standing but I think he's good and speaks excellent English..

I have had some symptoms recently which requires a gastroenterologist (not surgeon) but I wasn't comfortable with the guy I saw at SMC, hence my request recently for anyone knowing a gastroenterologist.

[cloudhopper]

I just had my last physical at Ram, and the rationale for and explanation of some of the tests seemed a bit dubious to me.

So if I decide to try Suan Dork next year, what do I do - just take the lift directly up to the 13th floor and ask around?

[waveydavey]

cloudhopper, on 2008-07-16 09:04:49, said:

I just had my last physical at Ram, and the rationale for and explanation of some of the tests seemed a bit dubious to me.

So if I decide to try Suan Dork next year, what do I do - just take the lift directly up to the 13th floor and ask around?

Correct. There's a counter near the lifts. If you ask there they'll give you a leaflet detailing the various options. When I went the people on the desk didn't speak English but they soon found a pleasant lady that did. She looked after me for the duration of the tests, taking me from room to room for the various procedures. I didn't need to make an appointment, I just turned up at 9am and was seen straight away.

If you just want a leaflet, they had some at the reception desk on the ground floor.

[Loaded]

the only problem I have with Suan Dok is parking. Where do you guys park you cars?

[Bill97]

Loaded, on 2008-07-16 09:56:14, said:

the only problem I have with Suan Dok is parking. Where do you guys park you cars?

If you are headed West and past the hospital buildings on Suthep Road, turn left at the first soi and quickly left again into the tree shaded lot which is on the corner of that soi. (Used to be an entrance just before the soi but could be closed now). It is a bit of a walk back to the Hospital but they usually have spaces available.

[bunta71]

I am needing both knees replaced and have been given information leading me to believe this would be the best choice here locally. Have been given the recommendation to see a Dr Sataya...I will meet him next week. In the meantime is there anyone lurking out there who have first hand experience with this particular Dr. OR had total knee replacement here locally with some stories that won't scare the stuff out of me?

[earlofwindermere]

For first timers...

You will likely be directed to the proper area. The private section (Special Medical Services) has a brand new lobby area on the first floor (it is separate from the mass of people usually sitting in the main area).

There is a fluent English speaking staff on call all day long. She/he will direct you to the proper counter or area. Based on my experiences, they usually also send someone with you up the elevator so that you go to the correct area.

Because there are so many buildings, make sure to ask for the Sri Pat building. Suan Dok is technically the building beside Sri Pat. Maharaj is technically another building. By asking for Sri Pat, you'll get the proper building.

[uptheos]

Bill97, on 2008-07-16 10:09:31, said:

Loaded, on 2008-07-16 09:56:14, said:

the only problem I have with Suan Dok is parking. Where do you guys park you cars?

If you are headed West and past the hospital buildings on Suthep Road, turn left at the first soi and quickly left again into the tree shaded lot which is on the corner of that soi. (Used to be an entrance just before the soi but could be closed now). It is a bit of a walk back to the Hospital but they usually have spaces available.

True, parking can be more stressful than the surgical procedures. Park somewhere you know heading in that diirection, where there will be lots of seelors and tuk tuks. Much less stessful.

[PeaceBlondie]

I have tried to use Sri Pat exclusively since (I hate to admit it) my first motosoi fall when I was a tourist. Again this month, I have been going in about three times per week, when I was referred to a specialist in limb circulation to ensure my wounds do not get infected. I have used about a dozen doctors at Sri Pat, and they all spoke good to excellent English, including both neurologists, the cardiologist, all four eye surgeons, 2 or 3 orthopedic surgeons, etc. I was only shuffled over to the Maharaj buildings for a super orthopedic consult that resulted in my massively infected shoulder being operated on (I spent the recovery aon the 14th floor at Sri Pat, which was at least as nice as my earlier stay at CM Ram).

As p1p mentions, some prescriptions are available at Sri Pat (at very reasonable prices) that you cannot get filled elsewhere
(e.g.,Rubifen or Ritalin).

I only have gone to CM Ram as a last resort, such as when Sri Pat could not schedule emergency surgery for 72 hours, or for an eye prosthesis.

I hope Narcissus will be along soon to remind us of her laprascopic gall bladder operation and her recovery on the 14th floor.

Added: in over 5 years, I have never waited an hour, and the clinic has air con. Sometimes there is an overflow to floor 12 for certain consults. Your bill is itemized, in English, and you prepay upstairs, then go down to the Sri Pat pharmacy go get your meds on the first floor. They have a huge selection of various levels of physical exams.

Finally, that parking is a problem. We only found the car park, as mentioned, this week. They had a shuttle going back to the main entrance by the ER. Best place tp park a motorbike is at the entrance with the Siam Bank ATM, at the crosswalk, but you may have to circle the bank buiding to enter the bike parking area.

[earlofwindermere]

Perhaps I'm just reading into it but doesn't it seem like the people who've been around a long time tend to use Sri Phat while the newer people are using Ram?

[Ulysses G.]

or:

People who are frugal use Suan Doc. People who don't have to worry about money use RAM.

[PeaceBlondie]

Ulysses G., on 2008-07-17 08:22:00, said:

or:

People who are frugal use Suan Doc. People who don't have to worry about money use RAM.

I doubt it is that simple, or that Sri Pat is that much cheaper or more convenient.

I literally stumbled onto/into Sri Pat as a tourist, was satisfied, and kept using it before I ever heard of Ram. Maybe Ram has better parking. Come to think of it now, I never parked at Ram, but used to walk from a parking lot at Central Kad Keow.

[Ulysses G.]

PeaceBlondie, on 2008-07-17 09:19:36, said:

Ulysses G., on 2008-07-17 08:22:00, said:

or:

People who are frugal use Suan Doc. People who don't have to worry about money use RAM.

I doubt it is that simple, or that Sri Pat is that much cheaper.

It is reputed to be. That is why a number of farangs are going there instead of Ram.

[p1p]

I know several farangs who go to Sripat instead of Ram because they believe they receive appreciably better medical care there. One man in particular was almost killed by Ram because they supposedly not only had a miscalibrated x-ray machine but also definitely prescribed a massive overdose of radiotherapy. He had to be medevaced overseas to save his life and is now receiving his continuing treatment through Sripat.
I normally use Ram only because my insurance covers me there. At Sripat I have to pay up front and claim back later. The costs seem to vary little between the two, although drugs may be cheaper at Sripat.

[PeaceBlondie]

The only comparison I can make with costs are my two shoulder surgeries, which are not directly equal. Both included general surgery, anesthesiologist, two surgeons, recovery, etc. Costs were almost the same, but Ram was maybe 20 percent higher, for whatever reasons (such as a stainless steel plate inserted in the arm). If anything, my Ram surgeon's English was slightly inferior, but no worse than a few of the Sri Pat doctors who did not spend many years in the West.

I had no substantive conversations with nurses at Ram, but those at Sri Pat know enough medical English to do their job, and one last week brought up the memory that we had worked together in Physical Therapy, two years ago.

[Ulysses G.]

My guess is that any medical facility makes a fair number of mistakes in the course of a day - it is the nature of the game - but more foreigners go to Ram, so their mistakes get talked about more. If the price is pretty much the same as Suan Doc, I would not bother to change.

[Mapguy]

PeaceBlondie, on 2008-07-17 11:01:49, said:

The only comparison I can make with costs are my two shoulder surgeries, which are not directly equal. Both included general surgery, anesthesiologist, two surgeons, recovery, etc. Costs were almost the same, but Ram was maybe 20 percent higher, for whatever reasons (such as a stainless steel plate inserted in the arm). If anything, my Ram surgeon's English was slightly inferior, but no worse than a few of the Sri Pat doctors who did not spend many years in the West.

I had no substantive conversations with nurses at Ram, but those at Sri Pat know enough medical English to do their job, and one last week brought up the memory that we had worked together in Physical Therapy, two years ago.

A little more casual pricing information:

1. I do know that at least some drugs at Sri Pat are cheaper than at Ram comparable with the best results of comparison shopping at pharmacies around town.

2. I can not offer a direct comparison re significant medical or surgical care, but routine visits are 50% less, sometimes less than that.

Periodic Medical Care (annual physicals):

Someone noted that they found the approach at Ram somewhat questionable. I agree, too, so next time I will go to Sri Pat to check it out. The attending physician, Dr. Kitti, is bored with his job and is not, to me, thorough.

Regarding Physicians:

I personally haven't anything to complain about except for the cursory approach of the physician at Ram who does annual physical exams. I have never had any other problem otherwise with physicians at either hospital except to note on advice re surgery. The Ram surgeon gave surgery the edge as the recommended; two Sri Pat surgeons were more conservative, saying surgery was not necessary at the time;

I do know quite specifically of a missed diagnosis of a friend's illness (and resulting inappropriate drug therapy) at Ram that he himself realized, using the Internet, was "of the wall." He then went to Sri Pat where the physician was appalled at the missed diagnosis. But the same friend has been enthusiastic about some other physicians at Ram;

Once, a physician at Ram advised hospitalization that seemed unnecessary. The advice was rejected, and there were absolutely no problems;

BUT, regarding physicians generally, I think perhaps the most relevant comment is that there are good, better and best physicians regardless of hospital. It is worth getting second opinions in appropriate circumstances. That is not expensive, generally, and normally doesn't take long at all to accomplish. The edge that Sri Pat has, probably, is that there are more practitioners, generally, and specialists available.

Parking:

It is fascinating to me that, culturally among farang, parking issues seem much more important than, say, choosing investments or a spouse. It is true that parking is tight around Maharaj. I have batted 100% on the road, but maybe I am lucky. The lot mentioned previously is fine, but it is a bit of a hike. If you are ill, folks, take a tuk tuk, song tao, or cab, for pete's sake! Or take a short hop from nearby parking place west of the complex and off Suthep Road or even further away. The area is loaded with transportation. And call them to pick you up when you are done! If you don't get vertigo and know where your fenders are, Ram's parking building is fine.

Edited by Mapguy, 2008-07-17 21:42:47.

[PeaceBlondie]

Maybe I am wrong about prices at the two places being nearly equal. I seldom have paid 400 baht at Sri Pat to see a specialist like a cardiologist or a neurolgy professor, sometimes 250 including the nurses fee.

Agreed, medical care is far more important than parking.

[vagabond48]

I have only used Ram's out-patient services, I found it to be adequate but not exceptional. I found out recently that my BCBS has world-wide in network in-patient hospital coverage but unfortunately only Ram, Lanna and Rajavej are on the list not Maharaj. There is very little talk about Lanna and have never heard anything about Rajavej.