[luuk holland]

Hello,
I want to rent a bar in Thailand and live there with my Isaan GF. I have got an offer for a bar near Kalasin with about 60 seats with live music every day. It's closed now for about 4 months because the previous farang renter moved back to Europe. My GF have been there before and said it was a succesfull bar, but a Thai bar (no farangs with lots of money). My question now is : Can I make enough money from this bar to live from with my GF and after some children (and be able to visit my relatives in Holland sometimes). You people out there who are familiar with Isaan please advise me on this.
Any help is very much apreciated.

Luuk

[Ken]

luuk holland, on 2004-11-06 02:29:35, said:

Hello,
I want to rent a bar in Thailand and live there with my Isaan GF. I have got an offer for a bar near Kalasin with about 60 seats with live music every day. It's closed now for about 4 months because the previous farang renter moved back to Europe. My GF have been there before and said it was a succesfull bar, but a Thai bar (no farangs with lots of money). My question now is : Can I make enough money from this bar to live from with my GF and after some children (and be able to visit my relatives in Holland sometimes). You people out there who are familiar with Isaan please advise me on this.
Any help is very much apreciated.

Luuk
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I would say you have about a 99.9 percent chance of going bust if you do it. Sorry. Nothing in you post sounds realistic to me.

[alleypanda]

I dont see any profit out of this..... Isaan people are mostly farmers I dnt know how many time amoth they are out for drinking in a bar because if they drink at home with friends cost almost nothing forget the idea that you can make money enough to buy a trip back home to holland. Here is the list you might have to consider.

How much for rent?
How much for live band?
How much for kitchen crews, waiters?
Electricity?
Do you have a permition to sell alcohol?
How much do you pay yourself?

[Flummoxed]

Luuk,
PM me... I'll wire you 20,000 U.S. next week. We can share the risk. You'll have to run things though, I'm having my frontal lobes reconstructed for the next couple of years.
Who am I?

[RamdomChances]

I don’t know about that area but around here bars with live music are very popular, if you go into the nearest town to me there are quite a few there and usually lots of people in them, even farmers like to get out sometimes

If you want to open somewhere outside the "tourist" areas you will have to aim at a Thai market, this means much less mark up on you beers food ect.

Is the place in a town or city, if not I’d forget it, why has it been shut for 4 months.

Seriously ask yourself the questions allypanda suggested, you might be able to live off it but I don’t think you will make what most westerners would consider good money.

Have you been there and seen it ? or spent much time around the area ? look at similar businesses are they busy, what do they offer, how much are their drinks ect

Anyway best of luck if you go through with it, you will probably need it

[Sulaphat]

Alleypanda's questions are very valid. You will need to do much more research to figure out whether it would be a viable enterprise.

By itself, it would probably not generate enough income to support you very well, assuming it is viable to begin with. But combined with other investments and/or work, you could perhaps make a go of it.

[jayenram]

A Thai friend of mine had a "live band" bar in town a couple of years ago. The live band was very good (her husband was the leader) given the circumstances. The bar was "open" and you could hear the band some distance away. She was charging Bht 45.00 for *Chang*. The surrounding bars/restaurants/shops were charging Bht 35.00 for *Chang* so you don't need telling what happened.

She now has two bars in Phuket but she didn't open them on the proceeds of what she made here.

Give it a miss, in my opinion.

[lambada]

Have you been to Issan? Personally I couldn't / wouldn't. Too ###### boring, too ###### poor and too ###### spicy. The women are stunning though!

[IamMaiC]

I dont see any profit out of this..... Isaan people are mostly farmers I dnt know how many time amoth they are out for drinking in a bar because if they drink at home with friends cost almost nothing

Very Much True Thai People in Issan usually drink at home, You might get Thai Girls and their Farang BF's. But that will be a small number of people.

[gburns57au]

Is it in the city,
Are there other bars nearby,
What are the costs involved in starting up,
What are the local laws for this business in that area,
Why did it close before,

All valid questions

A city bar has more chance of success as there is generally more money in the city areas. Not all of Isan is farmland.

If there are a lot of other bars in the area, there could be too many for the custom, if there are no bars, it could be that local laws restrict that business or maybe it is not viable there. Thai owned bars may have an edge over farang owned bars.

Redecorating, getting power supply, hiring of Staff and/or bands, Licence fees for selling alcohol, Buying of stock are just some things that need to be considered.

They maybe local laws that could restrict the trading times or even the ability to trade.

Did the farang owner quit because he wasnt making money, because of Visa probs, ill health etc...Try asking around the local area to find out why he quit.

[mowlem]

Some questions to think about.


How much money are you going to invest in the bar?

How much profit are you projecting to make? (In actual cash terms, and as a percentage)

How much money are you planning to live on? (Is this amount a guess, or do you live on that amount of money now?)

I know Isaan is cheap, but remember, you want to have kids and flights to Holland, so some money must be put into savings.

Do you speak Thai?

Do you live on Thai food now, or must you have European food?

Have you run a bar before? Has she?

Have you lived in Kalasin? Are there farang there? What entertainment is there? (Cinema? Swimming pool etc) Are you going to get bored?

Why does gf want you to go there? Family? Are they expecting you to employ them in the bar? (If so, how do you sack the idiot brother/sister/aunt/whoever?)

Will you be a competitor to other bars? (NOT a good idea here in Isaan for a newbie farang)




STANDARD ADVICE FOR FARANG THINKING OF LIVING HERE IN ISAAN FULL TIME.

Come and teach English for a full year. Put your money far away from you. See if you can survive on real wages, in real life. Also you can check various options out with the gf, and see if you like living here.

Isaan is NOT like Pattaya, Bangkok, or Phuket, and many farang who like these places hate Isaan. OK, that's their opinion, but it might be yours also.

Whatever you do though, good luck. I am trying to be honest and realistic, and I hope I have given you food for thought.

[Totster]

lambada, on 2004-11-06 12:32:17, said:

Have you been to Issan?  Personally I couldn't / wouldn't.  Too ###### boring, too ###### poor and too ###### spicy.  The women are stunning though!
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well ... you sound like a real ###### !

totster

[Tornado]

Bor kow jai

[jayenram]

I've done a little research. There was a bar near Kalasin operated by a Belgian. We passed on the way to Sisaket some months ago with the option of calling for a lunchtime pint. The bar was desolate but not empty. It is being used as a cow shed by a local farmer. The cows are obviously oblivious to the yellow and purple painted walls.

If this is the bar you are talking about, I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole. It's too far out of town, parking would be virtually impossible during the rainy season and remember that Thailand now has a "breathaliser".

Say no more.

[chonabot]

I'm very familiar with Kalasin and the surrounding areas , those who say the people are poor etc are generalising BIG TIME.
There are a LOT of peeps in the area that go on the piss every night and quite a few bars are heaving every evening. The big problem with Kalasin and KK these days are the Police. A Thai could run the place and only be expected to tip the police a few grand a month , as soon as a farang becomes attached , those rates would increase ten fold , whether or not the bar was successful.
The posters above that ask whether or not farang are in Kalasin? This is redundant , the young Thais have enough dosh to make these places a potential goldmine , my wifes aunt runs a very succesful C and W style bar in Kalasin , the problem remains are the ###### police.

[markt]

TIT. Is it any different anywhere else in Thailand?

[lampard10]

luuk holland, on 2004-11-06 02:29:35, said:

Hello,
I want to rent a bar in Thailand and live there with my Isaan GF. I have got an offer for a bar near Kalasin with about 60 seats with live music every day. It's closed now for about 4 months because the previous farang renter moved back to Europe. My GF have been there before and said it was a succesfull bar, but a Thai bar (no farangs with lots of money). My question now is : Can I make enough money from this bar to live from with my GF and after some children (and be able to visit my relatives in Holland sometimes). You people out there who are familiar with Isaan please advise me on this.
Any help is very much apreciated.

Luuk
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If it's the cow shed just outside Samrong Thep I wouldn't touch it. Was a Thai/Belgium bar. He was always telling me about fights there. Don't forget a thai bar fight usually ends up in murder

[pianoman]

I have been living in Kalasin now for almost four months, so not really an expert, but this area is definately not "Poor"... Kalasin has a lot of "Up Scale" people, and seems to be a really nice place... There are many "Thai Bars" in and around Kalasin, and they all seem to be at least marginally successful/busy...

Having spent most of my life invested in / involved in various business in the US, I would strongly suggest you invest the time and effort to come, research and then do a lot of homework / thinking prior to investing much money... And always have a back-up / allturnative / escape / worse-case senario plan ready..

Let me know if you head up this way, and I would love to be one of your customers...

Pianoman

[sua yai]

I agree with all the business advice given by previous posters on this thread. However, unless I've missed them, there's a couple of issues that I don't think have been addressed. Namely, your financial situation and your expectations.
I've run a bar before for 2.5 yrs. Not BKK or Pattaya etc, but also not Isaan. I had income from the UK, so was only interested in the bar taking care of itself. It gave me a 3 bedroom house, free beer and cigarettes and mainly free food during that time. Income from the UK allowed me to play golf twice a week and spend time in friends' bars. The ex g/f was also able to support her three children through school.
It was only the hours - at the time - and the boozing that ###### near killed me and prompted us to sell for a small profit.
If your expectations are not too high and you have some financial backup from Holland, you may get by OK and be happy. If you're sinking all your money into the venture, beware. Things could get difficult.
Good luck.

[Ken]

sua yai, on 2004-11-07 15:02:02, said:

I agree with all the business advice given by previous posters on this thread. However, unless I've missed them, there's a couple of issues that I don't think have been addressed. Namely, your financial situation and your expectations.
I've run a bar before for 2.5 yrs. Not BKK or Pattaya etc, but also not Isaan. I had income from the UK, so was only interested in the bar taking care of itself. It gave me a 3 bedroom house, free beer and cigarettes and mainly free food during that time. Income from the UK allowed me to play golf twice a week and spend time in friends' bars. The ex g/f was also able to support her three children through school.
It was only the hours - at the time - and the boozing that ###### near killed me and prompted us to sell for a small profit.
If your expectations are not too high and you have some financial backup from Holland, you may get by OK and be happy. If you're sinking all your money into the venture, beware. Things could get difficult.
Good luck.
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

http://[IMG]http://img128.exs.cx/img128/1411/smiley_thinking.gif[/IMG]
Geeessh. So many Farong in Thailand have gone the bar route and failed miserably. I think a very, very hard road to follow. Lots of advice here, and it would behoove you to really think thru what it is you want. Your initial post sounds very "iffy" and makes me suspect that you dont really know what running/owning a successful bar is about and using the "forum" to enlighten you is one thing, but I would be concerned that not one person who has tried this route and failed miserably in Thailand has responded (and I suspect there are many). I don't know, but obviously I am really skeptical about this. You certainly need to researh more about it than just a forum like this. Anyway, good luck, whatever you do.

[brubo1]

Ask yourself what return on the money would be if you invested the same amount of dollars (sorry, Guilders) in Holland and compare that with the best possible return if invested in LOS! Once you find the answer to that you don't have to go any further!!!!!

[lambada]

Totster. I did not actually use the F word. I bet you did! Anyway I can't speak for all areas of Issan that I haven't been too but really! There has to be better places to do this?!!! How do you spend your time in Issan? Admittedly I'm a city boy but what do you do?

[chonabot]

You can get up to all kinds of mischief in Isaan IMO , moreso than in Bkk even. You just need to be a bit more careful because when it goes tits up , it really goes tits up........

[RamdomChances]

lambada, on 2004-11-12 13:09:42, said:

Totster.  I did not actually use the F word.  I bet you did! Anyway I can't speak for all areas of Issan that I haven't been too but really!  There has to be better places to do this?!!!  How do you spend your time in Issan?  Admittedly I'm a city boy but what do you do?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dont live in Issan, but its probably very simular. How do you spend you time..... hmm well. Days- I have a buissines that takes a lot of my time, internet, TV, a lot of the time is spent runing around "sorting" things as every thing is quite spread out you do spend a fair bit of time in the car. I've had a lot of friends ask the same question, then they come up and stay. Every day is different. Today I'm going to the anuanl boat races, all the villages compete in rowing boats. Basicaly a bit of a carnival with whisky

Nights you do have options, drink with friends at house, watch TV,dvd, go out to resteraunt, bar, cinema much the same as BKK I would expect.

I'm from a semi rural area so it was'nt that hard to ajust, but if your from a city I can see your point, it would be more difficult. Cities they are nice to visit but I would'nt want to live there. Also usually get down to BKK, Hua Hin, phuket, pattaya about once a month for a few days, with the exeption of Phuket they are all easily drivable from here.

chonabot, on 2004-11-13 09:15:11, said:

You can get up to all kinds of mischief in Isaan IMO , moreso than in Bkk even. You just need to be a bit more careful because when it goes tits up , it really goes tits up........
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Same here mate, ther used to be a big US air force base in the nearest town to me, its probably got the biggest concentration of bars between BKK and Chaing Mai, cant do anything though, to close to home

[ray23]

RamdomChances, on 2004-11-13 02:53:00, said:

lambada, on 2004-11-12 13:09:42, said:

Totster.  I did not actually use the F word.  I bet you did! Anyway I can't speak for all areas of Issan that I haven't been too but really!  There has to be better places to do this?!!!  How do you spend your time in Issan?  Admittedly I'm a city boy but what do you do?
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I dont live in Issan, but its probably very simular. How do you spend you time..... hmm well. Days- I have a buissines that takes a lot of my time, internet, TV, a lot of the time is spent runing around "sorting" things as every thing is quite spread out you do spend a fair bit of time in the car. I've had a lot of friends ask the same question, then they come up and stay. Every day is different. Today I'm going to the anuanl boat races, all the villages compete in rowing boats. Basicaly a bit of a carnival with whisky

Nights you do have options, drink with friends at house, watch TV,dvd, go out to resteraunt, bar, cinema much the same as BKK I would expect.

I'm from a semi rural area so it was'nt that hard to ajust, but if your from a city I can see your point, it would be more difficult. Cities they are nice to visit but I would'nt want to live there. Also usually get down to BKK, Hua Hin, phuket, pattaya about once a month for a few days, with the exeption of Phuket they are all easily drivable from here.

chonabot, on 2004-11-13 09:15:11, said:

You can get up to all kinds of mischief in Isaan IMO , moreso than in Bkk even. You just need to be a bit more careful because when it goes tits up , it really goes tits up........
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Same here mate, ther used to be a big US air force base in the nearest town to me, its probably got the biggest concentration of bars between BKK and Chaing Mai, cant do anything though, to close to home
<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Someone mentioned something abuut first hand knowledge in this business, my nephew invested money with is G/F in Pattaya about four years ago. He and the G/F split up. He has spent the last three years in the states trying to recover and still hasn't made it. Owning a business with a significant other will not be easy anywhere, but here she has to own 51%, she has the controlling interest. If you think these little sweeties around here won't control, when they can. You are end for a semster in water buffalo university. Not an inulrt i think I'm in my third semester.

Visiting here and playing is one thing, living here is very different. I don't know thetown you are talking about but I have lived in Udon (Isan) for two years. If I hadn't developed hobbies I would be a in a lot of trouble these days. I live comfrtably but conservatilvely and that takes somewhere around 50K a month.

That is a very darn good living in this area, but even with that budget there is not enough money to go back to the states on a regular basis, say even once a year. You have to remember if you do go back the costs there are not going to go down because you moved here.

If G/F has worked in a bar, that hardly means she can manage one. Big difference when you have to make the bottom line as opposed to serving drinks.

What kind of Visa are you going to try to use and what are the costs in that. My friend you erally should be careful.

There are two things that I have been told since I have been here, the first is always true.

Never bring anything to Thailand that you can not afford to lose.

The second holds true most of the time.

A bar is the worst business in Thailand ( you really got to know what you are doing they are no walk in the park, they coma and go on a dailey bais, here in Udon, even with a heavy farrang population)