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[cloudhopper]

chrislarsson, on 2008-07-19 14:15:51, said:

On average there are about 1 casualty per year due to air accidents in Thailand. In contrast, there are about 30,000 casualties in traffic accidents.

I forget who once said "There are, lies, damned lies and statistics" but this is an example of all 3.

[cloudhopper]

sibeymai, on 2008-07-20 14:07:11, said:

1-2-Go's license to fly was suspended by the Thai Department of Civil Aviation about a week prior to Udom's announcement that the airline was suspending operations due to "financual restructuring", according to the investigateudom website. !-2-Go was given an extra week before the license was withdrawn, apparently so Udom could concoct a face saving story.

Udom has been caught lying again.

Anyone who now contemplates flying Orient Thai must be crazy. The question being asked now is if 1-2-Go is not safe to fly, and it shares management with Orient Thai, how can Orent Thai still be flying ?

THAT is certainly the question. Hopefully or I guess I should say wishfully this process will continue and bring greater transparency and accountability to the budget airline industry.

Fly AirSuperCheap - now everyone can die.

[Krungthepian]

Story from the Times in London:

http://www.timesonli...icle4364087.ece.

Families blame lax safety for budget airline crash
Britons are joining a £125m lawsuit over the Phuket disaster

From The Sunday Times
July 20, 2008
Michael Sheridan in Bangkok

LAWYERS for the British and American families of victims of an air crash in Thailand are seeking £125m compensation in the US courts in a case that may shed a harsh light on cost-cutting and safety standards at some budget airlines.
  The lawsuits follow the disaster on the holiday island of Phuket when an MD82 airliner operated by One-Two-Go, a Thai low-cost carrier, crashed on landing in heavy rain and wind on September 16 last year.
  Eight Britons were among the 89 people who died. There were 41 survivors, some of them badly burnt after the plane slewed off the runway, hit an embankment and caught fire.
  The captain, Arief Mulyadi, 56, from Indonesia, and his Thai co-pilot were killed on impact. Thai press reports say government investigators have reached an initial finding that pilot error was to blame.
  Since the accident the airline has denied allegations by some of its former pilots that crews worked excessive hours and that maintenance standards were lax.
  “We believe the air crash was completely avoidable and those responsible should be held to account,” said a statement from the parents of Alex Collins and Bethan Jones, a British couple who died.
  “While we accept that nothing can bring Alex and Bethan and the other people who lost their lives back, we are keen to make sure we prevent this from happening again.”
  Some British relatives of the victims have lent their names to an internet campaign by Bonnie Rind, an American whose brother died in the crash, calling for prosecutions in Thailand. Rind is also asking for an inquiry by the US National Transportation Safety Board.
  She has obtained numerous documents, including what she says is a transcript of material from the flight recorders. Rind said she was confident that the chilling details of the transcript, which appear to show confusion on the flight deck, were accurate.
  Flight OG269 from Bangkok was buffeted by heavy weather as it came in for landing. After a warning from the control tower of wind shear - a sudden, violent gust - the Thai co-pilot, who was flying the aircraft, opted to “go around” for a second approach.
  However, according to the transcript provided by Rind, neither he nor Arief engaged the correct controls after retracting the wheels. As the MD82 continued to sink towards the runway, the co-pilot’s last words were, “You have control.” There was no response from Arief.
  For 15 seconds the engines could be heard idling as the MD82 descended, then for four seconds they roared to full power as an attempt was apparently made to save the aircraft.
  Two seconds before the crash a wind shear alarm went off. Then there was silence.
  “It was clearly pilot error,” said Rind, a software engineer with a background in aviation. “There was no evidence of anything wrong with the plane.” She believes the captain was incompetent and was probably suffering from fatigue.
  Arief had a history of freezing at the controls during crises and had been working excessive hours, according to a documentary by Australia’s Channel Nine television.
  Crew rosters showed that at the time of the crash Arief had worked longer than the 110 hours a month allowed by Thai regulators. These rosters were handed to the authorities by the makers of the documentary.
  The programme interviewed François Wurst, a former pilot for One-Two-Go, who said he was flying with Arief on a charter for the United Nations in 2006 into Kabul to pick up Hamid Karzai, the Afghan president, when the Indonesian “mentally froze” during rough weather on the approach.
  Other former pilots gave hair-raising stories of shoddy maintenance and pressure to work excessive hours as the airline cut costs when tourism collapsed after the 2004 tsunami. They claimed there were constant faults with electronics, hydraulics and engines on the fleet of MD82s and Boeing 757s.
  Udom Tantiprasongchai, the founder of One-Two-Go, has firmly denied the allegations.
James Healy-Pratt of Stew-arts Law, a London firm acting for six Britons, said: “The families and victims are taking action in the US courts to force One-Two-Go to prove that they are not a low-cost, low-safety airline.”
  The American courts are involved because the Thai airline has business connections in the United States and the plane was made by McDonnell Doug-las, later bought by Boeing. The MD82 that crashed was first delivered to American Airlines in December 1983.
  US lawyers intend to name Boeing in the lawsuits, along with One-Two-Go, its parent company Orient Thai Airlines and Grandmax Group, a company connected to them which leased the doomed aircraft.
  The action will be closely watched in the London aviation insurance market because One-Two-Go and Orient Thai are insured by syndicates at Lloyd’s, plus other insurers.
Udom said the company had paid medical expenses and other costs for survivors and had settled claims in 26 cases.
  “We, with our insurers, are trying to resolve the remaining claims as quickly and fairly as possible,” he added.
  Yesterday Thai media reports said One-Two-Go is to cease flying “temporarily” due to cost pressures caused by oil prices and market conditions.

Additional reporting by Holly Groom
=========

I believe Ms Rind thinks Orient Thai should also close because it shares the same management and mode of operation.

[Ollie]

I think everyone should thank and applaud those challenging this shoddy tale of corruption and abuse from afar.

Little support was offered from within this sorry state of a corrupt society and it was clear it was hoped it would go away. They were ably supported by the state run media and others scared of upsetting the status quo, including ex-pats.

But sometimes, things have a momentum of there own and various forums, the Australian documentary and individuals prepared to risk livelihoods have all contributed to what could be the first of many changes forced upon this Countries rulers/elite if it is to retain the respect and support of the wider international community.

Its just been announced that statistically, for Brits, Thailand is one of the most unsafe Countries to visit, what else is around the corner?

[Robbie Dye]

macduff, on 2008-07-19 01:26:04, said:

holidaybob, on 2008-07-19 02:14:52, said:

They could change the name to One Thats Gone

How about one-two-gone

Nok will be next and we should all care, even Thai Air Asia appear to be getting themselves in to trouble. It is good for all of us who travel that the low cost airlines thrive, otherwise the big boys will just put the prices up even more !

[sibeymai]

Udom, you are about to get what you deserve. Don't think this ends here. It won't end until you are in prison. The US, UK and others will not let you run away. There is nowhere for you to go. The Thai government can not save you. Thai Airways will not be sacrificed for a piece of shit like you.

[b19bry]

"It is good for all of us who travel that the low cost airlines thrive"

Yeah, so long as they don't do that on the back of low safety, the fact that 'one two are gone' is reason for applause all round, the next one should be Orient Thai.

[Tango7]

What about Destination Air ? The Air Shuttle service that flies from Phuket to Phi Phi and other areas ? Anyone know about this one ? It's website is http://www.destinationair.combut not sure if it's legit or not. Will this or has this survived the fuel issue ?

[lapamita]

there is a 700 mio ç courtcaseagainst the airline in the us.. this is the mainreason and they would loose the courtcase, not in the ammount of 700 but maybe 200 or 300 mio usd.

i never understood why they get a licence,and i am happy they stopp operating,and i hope the next one who stopp is the mother company of oriental thai,,,,who is the same dangerous aiirline.

you know as well, that AIR ASIA PLC  * airasia.com signed on planes) is not teh same like THAI AIR ASIA LTD.
wjat diffrent
airasia PLC, is a piblic company in malaysia with high capital and brand new fleet, thaiairasia is  a LTD, with mostly up todaay old 737-300 aircrafts. and oriental thai ltd is a daughter of thaiairasia
why daughter companys and LTD bcs of respnsepility.

who you can see the diffrent of the planes from airaisa
1. malaysian airasia plc are signed with airasia.com..and fly a320,,, thaiairasia, wirte on the planes THAI AIR ASIA  and until now fly 737-300 ( aprox 20yr old series)

[Johpa]

sibeymai, on 2008-07-21 12:40:40, said:

Udom, you are about to get what you deserve. Don't think this ends here. It won't end until you are in prison. The US, UK and others will not let you run away. There is nowhere for you to go. The Thai government can not save you. Thai Airways will not be sacrificed for a piece of s**t like you.

What does he deserve?  He will never spend a day in prison.  Maybe he won't be able to visit the US or the UK, but most HiSo Thais don't like visiting the US anyways.  They will still be welcome throughout Southeast Asia and into China (note how his wife uses her Chinese name as head of the Grand Caymen based airplane leasing company)  And if things get too hot they can always abscond to some luxury hotel-casino along the Cambodian border until things cool down a bit.  And let's not even talk about Thai Airways, although, to their credit, despite their business incompetence does maintain some safety standards.

[GungaDin]

ONE-TWO-GO AIRLINES

Pilot error blamed for crash

AMORNRAT MAHITTHIROOK

Pilot error caused the fatal crash in Phuket last year and was the reason behind the grounding of One-Two-Go airlines, Chaisak Angsuwan, the director-general of the Civil Aviation Department, said yesterday.

His statement contradicted one from the budget airline on Friday, which cited problems including rising oil prices and strong competition as the need to temporarily cease operations and ground all eight of its MD 80 series planes.

Mr Chaisak said pilot error while trying to land at Phuket international airport on Sept 16 last year prompted the department to ban the entire MD fleet from service.

Investigations found the plane and maintenance were up to standard, but the way the pilots worked needed to improve to meet international requirements, he said.

The decision to ground One-Two-Go was based mainly on the inquiry by the National Transport Safety Board of the United States and the assessment of the department. The 56-day suspension will start tomorrow.

The temporary ban will only apply to the MD 80 aircraft. All 747 jets flying for Orient Thai airlines, which also belong to Udom Tantiprasongchai, the owner of One-Two-Go, are allowed to keep operating, but improvements are expected within 30 days, Mr Chaisak said. He refused to go into detail.

On Sept 16 last year a One-Two-Go MD-82 crashed in strong winds and heavy rain while trying to land at Phuket. The accident left 89 people dead and 41 injured. Transport Minister Santi Promphat said he was briefed on the report by the department chief on July 11.

The decision to suspend the budget airline will be announced at a press conference today.

Mr Udom said he accepted the results of the investigation, which pointed out faults by the pilots, and promised to make improvements.

A source at the department said the agency had informed One-Two-Go about the need to improve its performance, but nothing was improved.

The agency planned to ground both One-Two-Go and Orient Thai, but later decided to let Orient Thai continue operating. The source said the agency was not satisfied with the no-frills airline after finding that checks by the pilots were not being carried out properly.


http://www.bangkokpo...008_news008.php


Udom Tantiprasongchai    (Say hello if you see him around)  

Edited by GungaDin, 2008-07-22 02:04:47.

[JetsetBkk]

Maybe we could ask George to change the title of this thread from:

"One-two-go Forced To Suspend Operations, Low-cost airline victim of high oil prices"

to:

"One-two-go Grounded By The Civil Aviation Department Because Of Pilot Error That Caused The Fatal Crash In Phuket"

[A_Traveller]

There is one thing {amongst others} which troubles me, and it did originally when this was first said. Several reports, probably based on earlier statements made by CAD, say that the undercarriage was up and imply that the plane was going around for another attempt. However, as this image appears to show the undercarriage was down at impact. This image was sourced by NBT TV in the original thread LINK so there appears to be a disconnect between the statements and the evidence.

 Photo_landing_gear.jpg   11.33K   5 downloads

Regards

[cloudhopper]

A_Traveller, on 2008-07-22 11:00:08, said:

There is one thing {amongst others} which troubles me, and it did originally when this was first said. Several reports, probably based on earlier statements made by CAD, say that the undercarriage was up and imply that the plane was going around for another attempt. However, as this image appears to show the undercarriage was down at impact. This image was sourced by NBT TV in the original thread LINK so there appears to be a disconnect between the statements and the evidence.

Photo_landing_gear.jpg

Regards

The gear was probably down at impact. Normally retracting the gear is one of the last steps in a missed approach, if it is even on the checklist at all. This is because the drag is not as significant at landing/takeoff speeds as at cruise and has little effect on the initial rate of climb. Also in some types the drag can even increase during the cycle as doors open etc.

[A_Traveller]

^ Thanks for this. Whilst appreciating, from a physics perspective your point, mine was really focused on the accuracy of information being provided by CAD. If the gear was down why say it was up, if this was a mistake, it's one that has been repeated several times, and no attempt has been made to correct it. This 'fact' appears in the recent  Times article for example.

Regards

[cloudhopper]

A_Traveller, on 2008-07-22 11:47:35, said:

^ Thanks for this. Whilst appreciating, from a physics perspective your point, mine was really focused on the accuracy of information being provided by CAD. If the gear was down why say it was up, if this was a mistake, it's one that has been repeated several times, and no attempt has been made to correct it. This 'fact' appears in the recent  Times article for example.

Regards

It appears to me that the DCA guy originally responsible for this quote was in no position to make that statement. Perhaps he was just trying to infer that the crew was actively involved in a go around (although the CVR transcript posted on TV would appear to indicate otherwise). It doesn't seem to be IMO a pivotal issue in any case.

[A_Traveller]

^ Super... the guy was/is Chaisak Angsuwan: Director General of the DCA, deputy chair of the investigating team, chair of AeroThai {provider of aircraft - airport comms}.

Guess I'll just treat it as indicative.

Regards

[JetsetBkk]

Quote

PHUKET AIR CRASH INVESTIGATION

One-Two-Go grounded, pilots' licences cancelled

AMORNRAT MAHITTHIROOK

The Civil Aviation Department has ordered One-Two-Go airlines to halt operations for 30 days due to substandard operations and revoked or suspended the flying licences of nine of its pilots.

Chaisak Angsuwan, director-general of the department, said suspension of the airline's Air Operator Certificate was effective from today.

The department had found shortcomings in the airline's aviation operations, flight schedules and maintenance, along with a lack of quality assurance.

The low-cost airline had violated aviation safety regulations and lacked proper airline management.

The flying licences of seven of the airline's foreign pilots were revoked, six Indonesians and a Venezuelan, and the licences of two Thai pilots suspended.

The department found the pilots on the airline's MD80 series aircraft had submitted documents misstating their level of expertise.

The airline and its pilots were liable to criminal penalties and the department would file charges against them in two weeks, said Mr Chaisak.

The announcement follows the department's investigation into the crash of flight OG269, an MD-82, at Phuket International Airport on Sept 16 last year, killing 89 people and injuring 41.

The airline was required to correct the flaws in its operations during the suspension period, or the department could either extend the suspension or terminate the airline's certificate.

One-Two-Go was ordered to correct its flight schedules, aircraft maintenance and quality assurance system.

Mr Chaisak said One-Two-Go's parent airline, Orient Thai, was also warned it must change its flight schedules to allow its pilots enough rest time, as required by aviation safety regulations.

Transport Minister Santi Promphat said other airlines would face similar punishment if they were found to have committed the same offences. Airlines should be more careful in examining the qualifications of their staff, especially their pilots, said Mr Santi.

Udom Tantiprasongchai, the president of One-Two-Go Airlines, said the nine pilots were sacked on July 8. He had not previously known about the pilots' incorrect documents. He believed the airline could make all the changes required within the 30 days.

http://www.bangkokpo...008_news003.php

Quote

The department found the pilots on the airline's MD80 series aircraft had submitted documents misstating their level of expertise.

Pilots with fake documents. Wonderful.

Quote

Airlines should be more careful in examining the qualifications of their staff, especially their pilots, said Mr Santi.

Really, Mr. Santi? Gosh, you are really making life hard for these guys.

Quote

Udom Tantiprasongchai, the president of One-Two-Go Airlines, said the nine pilots were sacked on July 8. He had not previously known about the pilots' incorrect documents.

Of course you didn't and we all believe you.

[Hanuman2547]

They were a crap airline anyway.  I flew them from Bkk to Chiang Mai and return.  Going up to CM the plane was about 33% full but did leave about 30 minutes late.  Return flight was delayed from a early morning flight until 4:00pm.  Good thing I wasn't making a connection!!  I doubt they will be back.......and that will be fine by me as I wouldn't fly them again anyway.

[TAWP]

Holy crap, 9 pilots.  No way this would be a coincident...

[illy]

it is so typical that all politicians and CEO's can think they can so obviously and blatantly lie and expect anyone but their cronies and connections in governmental posts to believe it. and once again it isn't just in thailand... but this Udom guy really takes the cake, he should be on the [always corrupt and rotten]olympic committee!!

[marshbags]

Robbie Dye, on 2008-07-21 11:59:17, said:

macduff, on 2008-07-19 01:26:04, said:

holidaybob, on 2008-07-19 02:14:52, said:

They could change the name to One Thats Gone

How about one-two-gone

Nok will be next and we should all care, even Thai Air Asia appear to be getting themselves in to trouble. It is good for all of us who travel that the low cost airlines thrive, otherwise the big boys will just put the prices up even more !

Nok,s middle flight to Udonthani has been cancelled already, what a ball ache that will be for those who usually arrrive ealry morning and cannot make it across town to D.M. to catch the first one ??????

Me, i always book with Thai Air when going international, in case of possible cancellations

marshbags  

Edited by marshbags, 2008-07-23 17:43:28.