127 replies to this topic
Posted 2008-08-21 07:40:59
 mrtoad, on 2008-08-21 00:25:05, said:
Toxin is like a little boy with a ball. He's okay if he's winning the game, but when he loses possesion he cries foul and wants to take it home. Shame that the UK immigration weren't as stringet with Pokamon as the Thai authorities where with Glitter. Whilst there's difference in offences, there's no difference in culpability. It's about time Thailand opened up the box and investigated some of the other stuff that Toxin has been accused of, but it's probably unlikely, just as much as Thailand genuinely pushing for extradition.
Sorry but not a realistic comparison.
One did work in public office, was elected there by a majority more than once, and was removed by the gun.
The other has made a life of abusing underage girls................. I hope your moral is better than this!
The only way Taxsin is going to get a fair trial is if the majority of Thai people believe in the system he is to be tried under. That is not the case as the gun is still present.
Posted 2008-08-21 07:53:54
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New Pro-Thaksin Website Launched
In opposition to the People's Alliance for Democracy's move to request that the British Embassy consider extraditing Thailand's deposed premier Thaksin Shinawatra, the pro-Thaksin group has now opened a new website to express support for his asylum to the UK.
As an attempt to make deposed Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra return to Thailand to fight the corruption lawsuits against him, the People's Alliance for Democracy has sent a mobile rally unit to the British Embassy to Thailand yesterday to request that the UK consider extraditing Thaksin and his wife to Thailand.
The two are seeking asylum in the United Kingdom after his wife was handed a three-year jail sentence by the court for tax evasion in the Shin Corp share transfer to her foster brother.
Now, a pro-Thaksin group has created a new website to express moral support for the deposed Prime Minister and for his UK asylum. The pro-Thaksin group's new website is www.savethaksin.com.
The group is urging people to support Thaksin by sending postcards with the message "Please save Thaksin" to the British Embassy to Thailand, in order to urge the British government to consider granting asylum rights to Thaksin. They say that with or without the British government's consideration, they want to express their support for Thaksin.
The website contains a message to inform the people that there has been a maligned attempt by some to assault the government and the deposed prime minister continuously, which has caused the deposed premier to seek political asylum in the UK after he had previously decided to fight his lawsuits in Thailand.
The web founders urge the public to express their support to promote real democratic power. Pictures and web logos are allowed for downloads for use on other websites or for having pictures painted on shirts.
The "Save-Thaksin" website follows two other websites by pro-Thaksin groups that have been operating. The first is by the "New Sky" club at www.newskythailand.com and the other is www.thai-grassroots.com, which has been said to be the new form of the "Hi-Thaksin" website that was ordered banned because of a lese majeste case earlier.
- Thailand Outlook / 20 August 2008
Edited by sriracha john, 2008-08-21 07:57:29.
Posted 2008-08-21 08:06:57
Do the supporters on that website even realize Thaksin is an EX-prime minister? 
well, supposedly he is....
although I could understand if they had written DE FACTO PM in their flashing banners.
Posted 2008-08-21 10:02:14
Asylum bid
Former PM Thaksin Shinawatra and his wife are seeking political asylum in Britain, just 10 days after fleeing to London from Beijing. Thaksin also has called for unity within the PPP, urging PPP members to stand behind their leader, PM Samak. His lawyer Watchara Sangpratum yesterday confirmed Thaksin and his wife Potjaman were applying for asylum and that the couple will not show up at the Supreme Court tomorrow to defend themselves in the Ratchadaphisek land case. The last defence witness is scheduled to testify tomorrow, and Potjaman is due to appear in her defence. On Tuesday, thousands of supporters of the PAD rallied outside the British Embassy, demanding London deny the pair political asylum and extradite them to face criminal charges in Thailand. A deciding factor for the asylum seekers is thought to have been the 3-year jail term the Criminal Court handed down to Potjaman on July 31 for tax evasion in another case. Watchara said Thaksin had assigned a legal team to file libel and document forgery charges against five PAD leaders, for posting arrest warrants for him and his wife at various locations. Thaksin might also sue the Royal Thai Police Office for overstepping its authority, he said.
Continued here:
http://www.bangkokpo...s.php?id=129815
Posted 2008-08-21 10:26:57
sriracha john, on 2008-08-21 07:53:54, said: Now, a pro-Thaksin group has created a new website to express moral support for the deposed Prime Minister and for his UK asylum. The pro-Thaksin group's new website is www.savethaksin.com.
And it is registered to some "Real Democracy" in "Chamkarmon, Phnom Penh 12306", as everyone can find out in seconds... 
Posted 2008-08-21 10:32:42
Hope the prince of cowards and princess pokeman like the poor English weather, so-so food including what passes for Thai food in the UK - it's unlikely they will be able to move between countries risking deportation as they might not be welcomed elsewhere. So let's hope they are as miserable as hel_l - they certainly deserve it.
Posted 2008-08-21 10:42:16
lifeisrandom, on 2008-08-20 18:24:51, said: of course its approved he was the prime minister and thrown out in a military coup
Which makes him unaccountable for the crimes that he comitted??
Posted 2008-08-21 10:50:26
What's the travel status of asylum seekers? Are they allowed to leave the country?
Also he won't be able to publicly express his political opinions about Thailand, I believe.
Can someone clarify these two point? If true, he must be getting really desperate to agree to those terms.
Posted 2008-08-21 10:51:16
I don't know exactly how political asylum works in the UK, but I have worked in this field with the UN some years back. The standards are similar, but countries have a lot of say so in granting asylum to people they have a particular interest in.
I doubt that his original plan was to seek political asylum, because this makes it a pretty high profile situation for both gov'ts, but he really doesn't have too much choice at this point. His wife has been convicted of a crime and thus she is a wanted fugitive and it would be somewhat hard for the UK not to extradite her. Whether you believe she is guilty or not, there is nothing in her case that would support persecution per se and her jail sentence is not unduly harsh. In order for her to remain in the UK with the least amount of hassle, her husband needs to basically get refugee status, asylum or protection from the UK gov't and this same protection is then conferred to his immediate family. Therefore, she can be reasonably assured of not be extradited.
I certainly hope that the UK gov't looks carefully at the case. If he remains it should be because he has a well-founded fear.
Posted 2008-08-21 11:01:21
Plus, on 2008-08-20 22:24:48, said: PAD's demonstration outside British embassy was very timely.
The UK will not be able to hush it under the carpet.
I'm not sure the UK would have any interest in doing so.The British are used to unruly and unrepresentative mobs outside their embassies, including one in Beijing during the cultural revolution when the rabble hung the ambassador's cat.
As I have mentioned before the British Government will be very well aware of the PAD - its undemocratic agenda, its unsavoury leadership, and lack of national support.
Posted 2008-08-21 11:06:09
sriracha john, on 2008-08-21 10:02:14, said: Watchara said Thaksin had assigned a legal team to file libel and document forgery charges against five PAD leaders, for posting arrest warrants for him and his wife at various locations. Thaksin might also sue the Royal Thai Police Office for overstepping its authority, he said.
Sue-happy, but courtroom-shy, Police Lieutenant Colonel Thaksin is now even considering the Royal Thai Police? 
Quote [unnamed foes were meddling in the judicial system] "to finish off myself and my family".
"These are my political enemies. They don't care about the rule of law, facts, or internationally-recognized due process,"
- Thaksin Shinawatra's fax to the Supreme Court / Aug. 10, 2008
Edited by sriracha john, 2008-08-21 11:07:01.
Posted 2008-08-21 11:19:47
Thaksin seeks UK asylum as Thais step up protests
Thaksin Shinawatra, Thailand's ousted prime minister, is seeking political asylum in the UK, a move that could trigger diplomatic tensions as protests mount in Bangkok for his extradition.
On Tuesday about 10,000 people marched to the British embassy in the Thai capital to press for the return of Thaksin to face fraud charges. Last week a Thai judge issued arrest warrants for Thaksin and his wife after they failed to appear in court and instead flew to the UK after attending the Beijing Olympic Games.
Thaksin's wife, Pojamarn, and her brother were sentenced to three years' imprisonment last month in a separate case involving tax evasion on a share transaction.
A lawyer for Thaksin said yesterday that his client was seeking political asylum without specifying on what grounds. He said Thaksin could claim a breach of his rights or liberty or even a threat to personal safety.
Thaksin's legal troubles have been an acute embarrassment for a government elected last December on a pro-Thaksin ticket but which has faced mass protests because of its links to the business tycoon.
Somchai Phagaphasvivat, professor of politics at Thammasat University, said: "With such pressure on the part of the people, the government needs to do something to calm things down and not be seen as just part of a pro-Thaksin conspiracy, even if deep down I really don't think they want Thaksin to come back. I think this could create a certain tension between Thailand and the UK, at least in the short term."
Officials said last week they were starting the extradition process after the Supreme Court issued warrants for the couple's arrest when they skipped bail.
Mr Thaksin was ousted in 2006 by the military, which then launched corruption investigations. Following the country's return to democracy and the election victory of Samak Sundaravej, he came back from the UK in February to face charges.
In spite of the change in government, an emboldened judiciary has since been showing its determination to press on with the cases against Thaksin and his family. The judiciary is also involved in more direct confrontations with the government, which have led to the resignation of some ministers and threaten the dissolution of the pro-Thaksin People Power's party.
- The Financial Times / Aug. 21, 2008
Posted 2008-08-21 11:21:57
It's a difficult argument claiming asylum from a government that you paid for and control (apart from Samak).
Hopefully, his well-documented human right's abuses will be presented during his hearing, if for nothing else, to wind him up.
I don't plan to head back to London anytime soon but I would like to stand outside his London house with a big banner reading "Try and sue me here for defamation you murdering cheating scum a*hole"
Everyone likes to say they heard from a highly-positioned person that.... but I did hear from a highly-positioned person that the money behind Man City is actually from a consortium of Mid-East investors. He's just the front man. He agreed because he hoped it would create more popularity for him in LOS.
Posted 2008-08-21 11:37:45
younghusband, on 2008-08-21 11:01:21, said: Plus, on 2008-08-20 22:24:48, said: PAD's demonstration outside British embassy was very timely.
The UK will not be able to hush it under the carpet.
I'm not sure the UK would have any interest in doing so.The British are used to unruly and unrepresentative mobs outside their embassies, including one in Beijing during the cultural revolution when the rabble hung the ambassador's cat.
As I have mentioned before the British Government will be very well aware of the PAD - its undemocratic agenda, its unsavoury leadership, and lack of national support.
They will wheigh the options - do they care about their perception in the host country or not? In the example of curltural revolution it was probably not the issue, it was too late to worry about that.
In case of Thailand - there might be some backlash, are they ready to take it? Who knows, it depends on whether they need Thai cooperation or not.
I tend to think they don't give a fuc_k, and pretty soon no one would give a fuc_k what they say on this or that. They certainly can't preach about democracy with any sort of credibility if they give political asylum to someone like Thaksin.
By undermining their own position they might give even more support to PAD.
Posted 2008-08-21 11:46:16
lifeisrandom, on 2008-08-21 00:05:34, said: yeah everyone on the street seems real torn up about it 
They're going to be really torn up if the 2-3 digit lottery + new ILot lottery don't go through.
Posted 2008-08-21 11:47:39
george, on 2008-08-12 22:02:37, said: Thai FM considers revoking Thaksin's diplomatic passport
Thailand's foreign ministry is considering revoking the diplomatic passport of ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra after a Thai court issued arrest warrants for him and his wife Pojaman for failing to appear at a court hearing in regard to a land purchase case in Bangkok on Monday, said Foreign Minister Tej Bunnag on Tuesday.
Mr. Tej told journalists that the Supreme Court which issued the arrest warrants for the couple on Monday must first officially inform the ministry. The ministry of foreign affairs has not received information regarding the matter from the court or the prosecutor, he said, adding that ministry officials would need also to review regulations regarding the revocation of diplomatic passports.
The study will be conducted as soon as possible in order to ensure that it does not violate Thai law and the ministry's regulations, Mr. Tej said.
Mr. Thaksin had his diplomatic passport returned to him by former foreign minister Noppadon Pattama who had previously been the ousted premier's legal advisor.
-- TNA 2008-08-12
time for a little follow-through...
PAD wants Thaksin passport revoked
Hundreds of PAD protesters marched to the Foreign Ministry on Thursday morning to call on Foreign Minister Tej Bunnag to consider revoking diplomatic passport of ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra. PAD core leader Sondhi Limthongkul spoke to the supporters before the march that the protest is done peacefully and without violence. On Wednesday, thousands of PAD supporters marched to the British embassy, demanding that London deny political asylum to Thaksin and allow his extradition so he can face criminal charges in Thailand. The move came after media reported that Thaksin and his wife Potjaman plan to seek asylum in
Continued here:
http://www.bangkokpo...s.php?id=129818
Posted 2008-08-21 12:09:29
Plus, on 2008-08-21 11:37:45, said: younghusband, on 2008-08-21 11:01:21, said: Plus, on 2008-08-20 22:24:48, said: PAD's demonstration outside British embassy was very timely.
The UK will not be able to hush it under the carpet.
I'm not sure the UK would have any interest in doing so.The British are used to unruly and unrepresentative mobs outside their embassies, including one in Beijing during the cultural revolution when the rabble hung the ambassador's cat.
As I have mentioned before the British Government will be very well aware of the PAD - its undemocratic agenda, its unsavoury leadership, and lack of national support.
They will wheigh the options - do they care about their perception in the host country or not? In the example of curltural revolution it was probably not the issue, it was too late to worry about that.
In case of Thailand - there might be some backlash, are they ready to take it? Who knows, it depends on whether they need Thai cooperation or not.
I tend to think they don't give a fuc_k, and pretty soon no one would give a fuc_k what they say on this or that. They certainly can't preach about democracy with any sort of credibility if they give political asylum to someone like Thaksin.
By undermining their own position they might give even more support to PAD.
Some valid questions.I have no detailed knowledge of procedures but am fairly certain that the perception of the UK by some Thais (albeit a sizeable minority) will not enter into UK thinking very much.I'm not quite sure what measures (backlash) you have in mind -British goods boycott,visa restrictions,lack of co-operation at a regional level (which you have mentioned before)? Wouldn't it be wonderful if the Thais frogmarched all the scummy visa running Brits from Pattaya and Lower Sukhumvit onto the plane - Gary Glitter style.I would join PAD immediately and tithe my income over to Chamlong, Sondhiand co if this was on their platform
The reality is to take but two examples -the City of London financial centre and 800,000 British tourists- is that Thailand is far more dependent on the UK than the other way round.My instinct is that if the UK is seen to demonstrate that the treatment of Thaksin is in accordance with existing procedures (ie no special favours), the sense of outrage will die down even among PAD diehards
However there are two aspects you may have overlooked:
1.The distaste which you have always shown for the British establishment/political culture etc is not shared by those who matter in Thailand.I do fully agree the British political class can be irritating given their blithe self confidence,hypocrisy and tendency to preach.I am not going into details here but I can assure you a generalised public campaign against the UK would be frowned upon.You may not fully appreciate the extent of Anglophilia among the Thai upper classes whether in business, the armed forces, the educational establishment - even the Privy Council or the court itself.
2.Pure supposition on my part but given Thai history and culture isn't there at least a possibility that a deal has been cut? This would allow for a certain amount of shadow play and street theatre but the manafactured outrage would be strictly controlled.There would also be some very clear quid pro quo requirements on the Thaksin side.
Posted 2008-08-21 12:11:37
younghusband, on 2008-08-21 05:01:21, said: Plus, on 2008-08-20 22:24:48, said: PAD's demonstration outside British embassy was very timely.
The UK will not be able to hush it under the carpet.
I'm not sure the UK would have any interest in doing so.The British are used to unruly and unrepresentative mobs outside their embassies, including one in Beijing during the cultural revolution when the rabble hung the ambassador's cat.
As I have mentioned before the British Government will be very well aware of the PAD - its undemocratic agenda, its unsavoury leadership, and lack of national support.
Lack of support? If it weren't for the likes of PAD square head would be running around riding rough shot over everyone, as he once did. I would probably have thought that the likes of the British Gov knew more about democracy than you possibly given them credit for! Thaksin should be DEPORTED, then he can come back to Thailand and face the music in jail! Where he most surely deserves to be.
Posted 2008-08-21 12:16:25
younghusband, on 2008-08-21 12:01:21, said: Plus, on 2008-08-20 22:24:48, said: PAD's demonstration outside British embassy was very timely.
The UK will not be able to hush it under the carpet.
I'm not sure the UK would have any interest in doing so.The British are used to unruly and unrepresentative mobs outside their embassies, including one in Beijing during the cultural revolution when the rabble hung the ambassador's cat.
As I have mentioned before the British Government will be very well aware of the PAD - its undemocratic agenda, its unsavoury leadership, and lack of national support.
Good post, succinct and to the point.
.
Posted 2008-08-21 12:49:47
mrtoad, on 2008-08-21 00:25:05, said: Toxin is like a little boy with a ball. He's okay if he's winning the game, but when he loses possesion he cries foul and wants to take it home. ....
I always wondered how it came that, with this obvious attitude, he could have made it so far up... he must have cried foul a lot and there got to be a lot of people which held "the ball" long before him, but he (Pokamon) always must have found a way to get hold of the ball again... and now it's over... at least for now.
It seems that he is not the only one using this particular "technique", it's a very common defense of the "bad boys" around here!
Here never anybody does anything wrong, it's always "the others"!
Posted 2008-08-21 13:43:42
younghusband, on 2008-08-21 12:09:29, said: 1.The distaste which you have always shown for the British establishment/political culture etc is not shared by those who matter in Thailand.I do fully agree the British political class can be irritating given their blithe self confidence,hypocrisy and tendency to preach.I am not going into details here but I can assure you a generalised public campaign against the UK would be frowned upon....
The cat is out of the bag now, local upper classes can frown all they want, PAD are not their puppets, and this time they'd speak the undeniable truth. And it's not some disagreement over somewehre in Kosovo or Iraq or even Georgia, it's their local business, Thais won't swallow it without thinking as they usually do with British propaganda.
Quote 2.Pure supposition on my part but given Thai history and culture isn't there at least a possibility that a deal has been cut? This would allow for a certain amount of shadow play and street theatre but the manafactured outrage would be strictly controlled.There would also be some very clear quid pro quo requirements on the Thaksin side.
There is one development that has been largely overlooked - with PAD on the streets and on the air 24 hours a day any kind of secret deal is very difficult to pull - the cover can be blown off any moment and anyone can become a target of very pulbic critisism.
Even with Thaksin's flight - it's quite possible that there was a deal with the courts that they would give him a chance to flee, but if someone hoped that the matter would just quietly go away, he was very mistaken. The courts are in the spotlight, they can't do "deals", they have to follow up on existing cases, issue warrants and so on.
Public spotlight that PAD brings to politics makes it very difficult for anyone to deviate from the prescribed course of actions even if they wanted to. The decisions are made on the streets and by the civil society, not by backroom deal makers.
Posted 2008-08-21 14:00:43
Plus, on 2008-08-21 13:43:42, said: younghusband, on 2008-08-21 12:09:29, said: 1.The distaste which you have always shown for the British establishment/political culture etc is not shared by those who matter in Thailand.I do fully agree the British political class can be irritating given their blithe self confidence,hypocrisy and tendency to preach.I am not going into details here but I can assure you a generalised public campaign against the UK would be frowned upon....
The cat is out of the bag now, local upper classes can frown all they want, PAD are not their puppets, and this time they'd speak the undeniable truth. And it's not some disagreement over somewehre in Kosovo or Iraq or even Georgia, it's their local business, Thais won't swallow it without thinking as they usually do with British propaganda.
Quote 2.Pure supposition on my part but given Thai history and culture isn't there at least a possibility that a deal has been cut? This would allow for a certain amount of shadow play and street theatre but the manafactured outrage would be strictly controlled.There would also be some very clear quid pro quo requirements on the Thaksin side.
There is one development that has been largely overlooked - with PAD on the streets and on the air 24 hours a day any kind of secret deal is very difficult to pull - the cover can be blown off any moment and anyone can become a target of very pulbic critisism.
Even with Thaksin's flight - it's quite possible that there was a deal with the courts that they would give him a chance to flee, but if someone hoped that the matter would just quietly go away, he was very mistaken. The courts are in the spotlight, they can't do "deals", they have to follow up on existing cases, issue warrants and so on.
Public spotlight that PAD brings to politics makes it very difficult for anyone to deviate from the prescribed course of actions even if they wanted to. The decisions are made on the streets and by the civil society, not by backroom deal makers.
If you are right in all this -and while I'm not saying you're not, your thesis sounds a bit odd given the PAD's professed position on the military and key institutions of state - we are in completely unchartered waters.In other words you evoke a Thailand where the Court,Privy Council,traditional patrician leadership in the armed forces, bureaucracy and corporate world have no or limited influence over a partisan, undemocratic splinter group.Once these checks and balances are removed, you may indeed be right matters will be decided on the streets but the outcome may well not be the one PAD wants.
Posted 2008-08-21 14:20:45
sriracha john, on 2008-08-21 11:19:47, said: Thaksin seeks UK asylum as Thais step up protests
Thaksin Shinawatra, Thailand's ousted prime minister, is seeking political asylum in the UK, a move that could trigger diplomatic tensions as protests mount in Bangkok for his extradition.
On Tuesday about 10,000 people marched to the British embassy in the Thai capital to press for the return of Thaksin to face fraud charges. Last week a Thai judge issued arrest warrants for Thaksin and his wife after they failed to appear in court and instead flew to the UK after attending the Beijing Olympic Games.
Thaksin's wife, Pojamarn, and her brother were sentenced to three years' imprisonment last month in a separate case involving tax evasion on a share transaction.
A lawyer for Thaksin said yesterday that his client was seeking political asylum without specifying on what grounds. He said Thaksin could claim a breach of his rights or liberty or even a threat to personal safety.
Thaksin's legal troubles have been an acute embarrassment for a government elected last December on a pro-Thaksin ticket but which has faced mass protests because of its links to the business tycoon.
Somchai Phagaphasvivat, professor of politics at Thammasat University, said: "With such pressure on the part of the people, the government needs to do something to calm things down and not be seen as just part of a pro-Thaksin conspiracy, even if deep down I really don't think they want Thaksin to come back. I think this could create a certain tension between Thailand and the UK, at least in the short term."
Officials said last week they were starting the extradition process after the Supreme Court issued warrants for the couple's arrest when they skipped bail.
Mr Thaksin was ousted in 2006 by the military, which then launched corruption investigations. Following the country's return to democracy and the election victory of Samak Sundaravej, he came back from the UK in February to face charges.
In spite of the change in government, an emboldened judiciary has since been showing its determination to press on with the cases against Thaksin and his family. The judiciary is also involved in more direct confrontations with the government, which have led to the resignation of some ministers and threaten the dissolution of the pro-Thaksin People Power's party.
- The Financial Times / Aug. 21, 2008
Maybe the English and Thai Governements could do a deal. Send back Thaksin and Potofjam and we will let you have Gary Glitter back. Problems solved.
Posted 2008-08-21 14:27:01
younghusband, on 2008-08-21 11:01:21, said: Plus, on 2008-08-20 22:24:48, said: PAD's demonstration outside British embassy was very timely.
The UK will not be able to hush it under the carpet.
I'm not sure the UK would have any interest in doing so.The British are used to unruly and unrepresentative mobs outside their embassies, including one in Beijing during the cultural revolution when the rabble hung the ambassador's cat.
As I have mentioned before the British Government will be very well aware of the PAD - its undemocratic agenda, its unsavoury leadership, and lack of national support.
They are most probably very symphathetic insofar as the UK government has an unelected leader who himself refused to seek a mandate.
As for political asylum being granted it appears unlikely given the circumstances and also the requirement that it must be sought in the first instance on entering, not almost 2 years later owing to him, some say, of the intent to protect his assets in the UK. His defence that the Thai legal system is "stacked" against him his somewhat strange when the following day he launched a defamation lawsuit against PAD leaders the following day in Thailand's courts.
Edited by esprit, 2008-08-21 14:28:15.
Posted 2008-08-21 14:30:35
The Uk will not return Thaksin & Co. due to Thailands poor record on human rights abuse. Mr Thaksin will be able to prove without question that - indeed during his time in office their were infact several thousand people summarily executed in the name of the 'war on drugs'.
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