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[Boater]

With all the threads going on at the moment, please add your political comments whether they are support or bashing of the PAD here, thus we can keep the news threads clean.

Also i have added a poll to see who does or doesnt support the PAD on Thaivisa, please vote.....

Thanks

Boater

[unomi]

One of the reasons why I think the PADs actions are necessary:

Among the amendment proposed was removal of Article 237 which would dissolve a political party if one of the executives was involved in vote buying. Yongyuth Tiyapairat, People's Power Party executive who was also the Parliament president after the election, was being tried for vote buying.[7] Yongyuth was later found guilty by the Supreme Court on July 8, 2008.[8]

As for their extreme xenophobia or whatnot. I have met PAD protesters, I was at the government house at the night of the 10pm ultimatum. Everyone was friendly towards this farang.

I also do not believe that thais should stop their desire for political reform in order to appease tourists or those that are in the business of making money from tourism. The incredible hubris involved in demanding the primacy of foreigners over thai interests are probably the source of the quotes attributed to Sonthi.

[Colonel_Mustard]

So you think parties should be dissolved on the basis of the behaviour of one of it's executives?  Ban the guilty person for life but a bit harsh punishing all for the sins of one.

I assume your comments regarding tourism relate to shutting down the airport at Phuket.  Please explain how this helps.  Their problem is supposed to be with the government, not holidaymakers.

[wasabi]

Protesting is fine but stopping flights, transit and communications is taking it too far and putting your fellow citizens in harms way. These guys are acting like a bunch of spoiled brats. Samak may or may not be a suitable leader but he was elected. Wait til he finishes office then offer another candidate if you don't like him, no one can please all the people all the time but if everyone follows the law then everyone benefits. This trying to force him out quite frankly makes Thailand look like a banana republic that no one is going to want to invest in. They are hurting not helping their country. I think the government has handled the situation well and I hope it doesn't get violent.

[unomi]

Colonel_Mustard, on 2008-08-30 14:10:25, said:

So you think parties should be dissolved on the basis of the behaviour of one of it's executives?  Ban the guilty person for life but a bit harsh punishing all for the sins of one.

That is the content of the constitution. A  Party  should be committed to ensuring that their executives do not partake in undemocratic activities, I would say that vote buying is undemocratic.

Colonel_Mustard, on 2008-08-30 14:10:25, said:

I assume your comments regarding tourism relate to shutting down the airport at Phuket.  Please explain how this helps.  Their problem is supposed to be with the government, not holidaymakers.

The PAD have been demonstrating for months, with just about zero international attention and everything being Business as usual. The PAD upping the ante is hardly surprising, as there are important time constraints at play here. 

Hopefully the tourists that come will spend some time to find out the cause of their inconvenience and applaud the people for standing up for political justice. 


I will say that I am not a fan of Sonthi nor do I think that the upper echelons necessarily have anything but their personal interests at heart, however, I think that the idea of nonviolent public disobedience is one that we could do with more examples of. It is unfortunate that it disrupts the itiniaries of tourists, but in the greater scope of things I find their inconvenience absolutely insignificant. I find it much more troubling that holiday makers would continue to turn a blind eye to the ills of the regimes that they help fund. 

[unomi]

wasabi, on 2008-08-30 14:12:53, said:

Samak may or may not be a suitable leader but he was elected. Wait til he finishes office then offer another candidate if you don't like him, no one can please all the people all the time but if everyone follows the law then everyone benefits.

Perhaps you didnt read my first post, according to the Constitution of Thailand, Samaks party must be dissolved. As I understand it Samak is indeed not legally 'in office'. Considering that the executives of PPP have been charged AND convicted of vote buying, how can you say that he was 'elected'. ? 

[unomi]

http://www.upiasiaon...stitution/5212/

Article regarding some of the amendments of the constitution desired by the PPP

Yongyuth Tiyapairat isn't just 'one bad apple' he was the PPP's Parliament president.

More detail on his escapade here: http://news.xinhuane...ent_8512158.htm

[unomi]

double post, sorry

Edited by unomi, 2008-08-30 14:56:29.

[JetsetBkk]

unomi, on 2008-08-30 13:43:09, said:

...Among the amendment proposed was removal of Article 237 which would dissolve a political party if one of the executives was involved in vote buying. Yongyuth Tiyapairat, People's Power Party executive who was also the Parliament president after the election, was being tried for vote buying.[7] Yongyuth was later found guilty by the Supreme Court on July 8, 2008.[8]

unomi, on 2008-08-30 14:37:49, said:

...according to the Constitution of Thailand, Samaks party must be dissolved. As I understand it Samak is indeed not legally 'in office'. Considering that the executives of PPP have been charged AND convicted of vote buying, how can you say that he was 'elected'. ?

First I've heard of this. Is it possible for an MP to be Prime Minister if his party doesn't exist?

[Colonel_Mustard]

JetsetBkk, on 2008-08-30 15:02:52, said:

unomi, on 2008-08-30 13:43:09, said:

...Among the amendment proposed was removal of Article 237 which would dissolve a political party if one of the executives was involved in vote buying. Yongyuth Tiyapairat, People's Power Party executive who was also the Parliament president after the election, was being tried for vote buying.[7] Yongyuth was later found guilty by the Supreme Court on July 8, 2008.[8]

unomi, on 2008-08-30 14:37:49, said:

...according to the Constitution of Thailand, Samaks party must be dissolved. As I understand it Samak is indeed not legally 'in office'. Considering that the executives of PPP have been charged AND convicted of vote buying, how can you say that he was 'elected'. ?

First I've heard of this. Is it possible for an MP to be Prime Minister if his party doesn't exist?

The party does still exist (though probably not for long) but if dissolved the MPs are likely to just move to another or a new party, which I believe has already been set up for that purpose.

[Colonel_Mustard]

unomi, on 2008-08-30 14:53:52, said:

http://www.upiasiaon...stitution/5212/

Article regarding some of the amendments of the constitution desired by the PPP

Yongyuth Tiyapairat isn't just 'one bad apple' he was the PPP's Parliament president.

More detail on his escapade here: http://news.xinhuane...ent_8512158.htm

And here's one relating to the PAD's desires (put forward by it's own bad apple leader):

http://www.asiasenti...i...1&Itemid=35

[Boater]

Does anyone know the rough amount that this protest has cost the economy?

[Jingthing]

Here is a more specific poll about PM Samak vs. PAD for all you Oriental politics followers:

http://www.thaivisa....63#entry2170563

[DP25]

I don't think polls are of much use here given the huge number of anti PAD sockpuppet accounts posting on this forum.

[Jingthing]

DP25, on 2008-08-30 17:11:05, said:

I don't think polls are of much use here given the huge number of anti PAD sockpuppet accounts posting on this forum.

As a liberal democrat from the US, I can't find any political faction here that appeals to me very much at all. The closest thing would be Abhisit but his party seems incapable of building enough popular support. Samak is obviously a Thaksin puppet with a history of brutality in the past, and the PAD movement is a very reactionary RIGHT WING movement. All I can feel is a hope that this ends without people getting hurt. Can't see any celebration is in order whichever side "wins" Orientalland loses.

Edited by Jingthing, 2008-08-30 17:15:19.

[Boater]

DP25, on 2008-08-30 17:11:05, said:

I don't think polls are of much use here given the huge number of anti PAD sockpuppet accounts posting on this forum.

Well this is why i started to the poll, and the results are quiet interesting so far

Yes   [ 8 ]   [24.24%]   No   [ 19 ]   [57.58%]   Unsure   [ 6 ]   [18.18%]

As you can see 1/3 of people here are voting FOR the PAD, which i did not expect, i thought the No section would be the only one people would click on...

[Tywais]

Boater, on 2008-08-30 17:33:25, said:

i thought the No section would be the only one people would click on...

Problem with the poll setup is one can vote for all three options at the same time rather then only one selection.

[unomi]

Boater, on 2008-08-30 17:33:25, said:

DP25, on 2008-08-30 17:11:05, said:

I don't think polls are of much use here given the huge number of anti PAD sockpuppet accounts posting on this forum.

Well this is why i started to the poll, and the results are quiet interesting so far

Yes   [ 8 ]   [24.24%]   No   [ 19 ]   [57.58%]   Unsure   [ 6 ]   [18.18%]

As you can see 1/3 of people here are voting FOR the PAD, which i did not expect, i thought the No section would be the only one people would click on...

39 votes but only 7 distinct posters. I guess it would be too much to ask to have people qualify and discuss their positions.

[Boater]

unomi, on 2008-08-30 17:45:45, said:

Boater, on 2008-08-30 17:33:25, said:

DP25, on 2008-08-30 17:11:05, said:

I don't think polls are of much use here given the huge number of anti PAD sockpuppet accounts posting on this forum.

Well this is why i started to the poll, and the results are quiet interesting so far

Yes   [ 8 ]   [24.24%]   No   [ 19 ]   [57.58%]   Unsure   [ 6 ]   [18.18%]

As you can see 1/3 of people here are voting FOR the PAD, which i did not expect, i thought the No section would be the only one people would click on...

39 votes but only 7 distinct posters. I guess it would be too much to ask to have people qualify and discuss their positions.

Agreed, i click on No as the blockade at Phuket airport has cost me money and buisness

[simon43]

Foreign tourists have about zero interest in the aims of PAD, and that also applies to their level of interest in the Thai government.  This is internal Thai politics.  The only thing that foreign tourists care about is having a care-free holiday, with minimal transportation problems.

The actions of PAD at Phuket Airport will stick in the minds of these tourists.  Do you think they will want to recommend Phuket as a holiday destination for their friends? 'Hey, don't worry about the disruption mate - PAD is trying to 'democratize' Thailand so that's ok then.....'

It seems to me that PAD is rather short on brain cells when it comes to the bigger picture

Simon

[dangbry]

PAD Should stand for "People Against Democracy" because they are trying to oust a government that was legitimised in a popular vote less than 1 year ago by the majority of Thai citizens.

Many countries have people who are unpopular with their governments, but if every country had people acting in this way when they are unhappy there would be total anarchy.

Peaceful protesting in means which are lawful is entirely justified, holding the country to ransom with ultimatums that go against the popular majoirty is absolutely unjustified !!!!.

The time for the dissatisfied to decide on a change of government is at the next election, as is the case with every civilised democracy in the world.

I feel every sympathy for the Thai businesses and people that this will affect in a negative way and also for the people who voted for this government who are now having the PAD try to take their right to vote away from them with illegal tactics.

[Seizhin]

PAD are outlaw, where they dont know any law.
Mr. Chamleong who called himself to be a religious believer is has but a few believes left.
He doesnt care for the life of the people, a communist, and has the military backing him up.

The citizens who are with PAD are uneducated and enslaves themselves for only 500baht per day, to be PAD's meat shield.
I cant believe that most of the Southerners were telling me that the news of the 500 baht per day was "just a news to degrade the PAD."

Thailand has 63 million people but around less than 1 million people can cost such a major damage to Thailand.

ASTV could go on air with those cursing 24 hours without being censored.

What is going on?
Easily concluded that Thailand never had laws. Some people can be 'untouchable' when they want to, and that doesnt go for only Mr. Thaksin.

Edited by Seizhin, 2008-08-30 20:37:54.

[unomi]

Quote

It seems to me that PAD is rather short on brain cells when it comes to the bigger picture

The bigger picture is what exactly according to you? generating revenue thru tourism? And the ideal of governments for the people should pay the price?

Quote

PAD Should stand for "People Against Democracy" because they are trying to oust a government that was legitimised in a popular vote less than 1 year ago by the majority of Thai citizens.

According to the constitution any political party which has executives involved in vote buying should be dissolved. The article of the constitution is article 237, the very article which the PPP is trying to remove. The PPP Parliament president was convicted of vote buying. I would hardly say that the PPP is 'legitimized'. Also, the PPP did NOT receive the majority vote. 

'

Quote

Hey, don't worry about the disruption mate - PAD is trying to 'democratize' Thailand so that's ok then.....'

Ofcourse. 

Quote

The time for the dissatisfied to decide on a change of government is at the next election, as is the case with every civilised democracy in the world.

The french have had this happen numerous times without anyone questioning the vibrancy of their democracy or claiming that they are uncivilised.

[britmaveric]

PAD is corrupt leaders wanting to stay out of jail. The sheep following seem to think this in defense of the monarchy and its not half bad they are being paid 500bht a day to do so. (now i know how the supporters are able to be here)

[mahtin]

Pandemonium
And
Destruction