2626 replies to this topic
Posted 2008-09-02 10:07:27
 Maxi101, on 2008-09-02 11:45:26, said:
Chua, on 2008-09-02 08:30:40, said: From 2008-09-02 08:13:12: The state of emergency also prohibits news publicity in a way that terrifies the public.
Doesn't that mean this order is in violation of itself? Obviously Samak has only concern for himself, and have no clue what a HUGE negative impact the declaration of a state of emergency means to the rest of the world, especially investors & tourists. Samak's short-sighted efforts to save his own neck will be at the expense of all of Thailand.
Samak obviously intended and wanted this to happen. He & the PPP paid for buses to bring their supporters in from the North so they could deliberately start a fight and cause violence.
The PAD have been demonstrating peacefully for weeks and continue to be peaceful.
100% of the trouble is due to Samak & the PPP who organized and deliberately intended their supporters to cause the recent violence that now gives them the excuse to attack the PAD.
Samak Ow Pai!
OK Samak is an ....... but to underline peaceful demonstration while disrupting and endangering the whole country is just naiv.
What you expect - that he just backs off?
Naiv again.
He has to play his role in the game like anybody else, and his role is to show that actions like that can't succeed.
For the sake of future ( uhhh ... maybe now I sound naiv  )
maxi
I hope Mr. Samak is not going to give up to the bunch of hooligans, otherway we will be going back to elections and , You know what, Mr. Samak party will win again, and again....good luck Mr. Samak
Posted 2008-09-02 10:09:42
Thailand declares emergency in Bangkok after clashes leave one dead
September 2, 2008, 11:13 am
Source: AFP
BANGKOK (AFP) - Thailand declared a state of emergency in Bangkok Tuesday, banning gatherings of more than five people in a bid to clamp down on anti-government protests that erupted into deadly clashes overnight.
The announcement came just hours after street fights broke out between thousands of supporters and opponents of embattled Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej, who has resisted mounting pressure to step down.
One person was killed and dozens injured in the violence near the main government complex occupied for a week by activists who want Samak to resign, claiming he is merely a puppet for ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra.
"Because last night there was unrest affecting the peaceful law and order in the country and obstructing the democratic process, the government has declared a state of emergency, which will affect people's individual freedoms," said the announcement read on state radio.
News of the declaration comes as Samak made a confident appearence after invoking the emergency decree, telling reporters he had done his duty as leader.
"I didn't sleep last night. I have carried out my duty," he said, adding that he would hold a press conference at the Thai army headquarters at 0200 GMT.
Samak appointed the powerful army commander General Anupong Paojinda to head a special team tasked with enforcing the emergency decree, with the national police chief and Bangkok's regional army commander as his deputies.
The announcement said Anupong now had the power to break up any gathering and to force people to leave any location.
"By invoking this emergency decree, Anupong can ban people from entering any specific place and can evacuate people from any specific place," it said.
Thai police called in army reinforcements early Tuesday to rein in the protests, setting nerves on edge in a country that has seen 18 military coups since the end of absolute monarchy in 1932.
Thai television showed pro- and anti-government protesters wearing helmets and carrying batons running though the streets, fighting with each other and throwing rocks, as people lay bleeding on the street.
"Initial reports which need to be confirmed later are that one died and 38 were injured," said local government spokesman Peeratong Saichoew.
"There is a report that one person was injured from gun shots while the rest were injured from fighting," he said.
"Now they are being treated at six hospitals nearby."
Anti-government protesters from the so-called People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) stormed Samak's Government House complex one week ago, with thousands still squatting on the grounds.
The activists accuse Samak of acting on behalf of ousted prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, who now lives in exile in Britain after the same protest group helped topple his government in 2006.
The protesters received a boost Monday when Thailand's biggest union called for a strike to add to the pressure on Samak, threatening to disrupt Bangkok's water and power supplies from Wednesday.
Tuesday's violence was the worst since the start of the campaign to oust Samak. No one was killed during months of protests against Thaksin in 2006 or in the coup that followed.
Thaksin was toppled by royalist generals in a military coup in 2006, and is now living in exile in Britain to avoid corruption charges at home.
But his allies still fill many top seats in government, and Samak won elections in December by campaigning as Thaksin's proxy.
PAD gathers most of its support from Bangkok's traditional elite and a portion of the middle class. Its leaders openly disparage the merit of votes cast by the nation's rural poor, who have thrown their support behind Thaksin and now Samak.
In addition to demanding that Samak resign, PAD wants an overhaul of Thailand's system of government, saying only 30 percent of seats in parliament should be elected, with the rest appointed.
Posted 2008-09-02 10:12:04
phutoie2, on 2008-09-02 10:00:27, said: Samak = wily old fox. Surprisingly the out of town, paid for, rent a mob were not mobilized sooner.
Once it was clear that Bangkok's finest were not going to follow his orders, note: the removal of Bangkok Police boss to an inactive post!.
Timing is not surprising at all. ((edit))
Talks with the army and police lead to comments that they will not support either side (for now).
After nobody else will do his dirty work, it is time for Samak to roll up his sleeves and do the task himself. So the timing is absolutely logical (and he got the state of emergency now he wanted so dearly for days).
Posted 2008-09-02 10:12:40
jts-khorat, on 2008-09-02 04:07:05, said: OlRedEyes, on 2008-09-02 09:53:37, said: A country gets the government it deserves. If the whole culture is accepting of corruption at every level, and contributes to it, no good crying when those kids that grew up with it get into power.
Good post. Hits the nail on the head.
Unfortunately thats the core of the matter.
Posted 2008-09-02 10:13:32
old wanderer, on 2008-09-02 10:04:23, said: OlRedEyes, on 2008-09-01 18:53:37, said: Austeyr, on 2008-09-02 09:36:15, said: Sad times.
Just ask yourself if this were your own country and the goverment which was in power was saturated with corruption and was'nt prepared to bring an ex leader to justice even though he had ripped off millions of tax payers money. Which side of the fence would you be on?
I'd ask myself if I contributed to the corruption, or ever spoke out against it.
Corruption in government would be a lot less if it isn't endemic all the way up from grassroots. No hope of finding moral people for government as long as corruption is mai-pen-rai'ed in every household and institution in the country.
A country gets the government it deserves. If the whole culture is accepting of corruption at every level, and contributes to it, no good crying when those kids that grew up with it get into power.
Are we all blind,,,,or cannot it be seen clearly that when the court refused the 2 million baht bribe, put some of the shirt-tail relatives of Pochiman in jail, then sentenced her and a few more corrupt relives to 3 years in jail the tide was finally starting to turn. Thaskin was next, and since it was in front of the Supreme court, had he be found guilty, he would leave the court room for the jail house with no appeal. He understood this, and ran.
If Samak is allowed to continue he will change the laws, to where what were serious crimes, are no longer crimes, and it will be a further license to steal by those in power.
You'll never root out corruption from the top down. It has to be done from the bottom up. The same court granted bail, in what I believe is an understanding that flight will follow. No real attempt at justice, simply window-dressing.
If they really wanted Thaksin to stay, they could have revoked his passport pending the case. His wife was released on bail after sentencing. One must be very blind or self-delusional to not see they wanted them outta here.
I don't believe for a second, and I'd think most foreigners here agree, that the PAD is any less corrupt than anyone else.
Rooting out corruption is a very thin excuse for getting to the trough.
There is no sign at all that the tide is turning.
Edited by OlRedEyes, 2008-09-02 10:14:29.
Posted 2008-09-02 10:14:00
kumsamut, on 2008-09-02 02:33:56, said: That is a good news.
Why do people assume that all gov are bad?
This gov is from the majority votes and the protestors are back supported by the opponants.
Wake up!!!!
Uhhhm correction: bought majority votes...
Posted 2008-09-02 10:14:29
Thai style:
No steps forward , 5 steps back.
Just watch the tourists canceling in the next few days.
Posted 2008-09-02 10:16:38
It's the first time I feel relieved hearing a state of emergency has been declared. And from what I heard from friends and relatives, and very few of them are Samak's suporters, I'm far from the only one.
As eastwest says rightly " If the military stays behind Samak and the principles of elected government, Thai democracy and the rule of law might very well be strengthened."
Hope at last !
Posted 2008-09-02 10:18:34
PM vows full investigation into fatal clashes
Same kind of investigation thrown by the police with ALL of the Bangkok bombings of the last few years where NOTHING was conveniently concluded.  Right in the peoples faces. 
Posted 2008-09-02 10:20:17
OlRedEyes, on 2008-09-02 02:53:37, said: Austeyr, on 2008-09-02 09:36:15, said: Sad times.
Just ask yourself if this were your own country and the goverment which was in power was saturated with corruption and was'nt prepared to bring an ex leader to justice even though he had ripped off millions of tax payers money. Which side of the fence would you be on?
I'd ask myself if I contributed to the corruption, or ever spoke out against it.
Corruption in government would be a lot less if it isn't endemic all the way up from grassroots. No hope of finding moral people for government as long as corruption is mai-pen-rai'ed in every household and institution in the country.
A country gets the government it deserves. If the whole culture is accepting of corruption at every level, and contributes to it, no good crying when those kids that grew up with it get into power.
Same as America. Only with Thailand, the rest of the world won't have to suffer for the crass stupidity of the electorate.
Posted 2008-09-02 10:20:58
I must be missing something here.
Months ago, was not the Samak government proven, in a court of law, to have corrupted the Thai voting process? (Yes, it was.) Therefore, this government is/must be illegal from the beginning and in its entirety?
The PAD is tired of waiting for the legal process of condemnation, and the obviously limited results, all of this while the ousted Prime Minister Taksin Shinawatra continues to puppeteer the entire Kingdom of Thailand?
Hence, and basically, someone had to make a move. The PAD is in fact simply affirming the democratic state. It had to.
Posted 2008-09-02 10:21:12
warriors, on 2008-09-02 09:17:11, said: Is it not sort of strange that all of a sudden all the New Bees ( new posters) all mainly seem to be pro P.P.P. supporters?
Does that mean we have now also been broken into ( this web site) by the so called invisable hand.
Watch what you say big brother is about.
I think many are just finding out about PAD's position on elected government. I doubt that many are passionate about PPP, but I assure you that many are passionate about democracy.
Posted 2008-09-02 10:21:21
jitagon, on 2008-09-02 10:03:48, said: Koo82, on 2008-09-02 02:46:11, said: The Principal Law is made by the other side and some how supports the other side. My husband and I did not vote for that Law as it gives cracks for these protestors to climb up.
Many tv channels just deliver half of the news to support the protestors. NBT is telling all truths so they were the first to be attacked last week.
The panthamai LOL (panthamit) is going against the law. This has got to stop.
In our area, if they stop and water and electricity, we'll throw stones to them. They think they own the water & power plants. No. They just work there. These belong to public.
Arai wah??? NotAnotherNewBee. 
Newbie here but oldbie in other forum 
Posted 2008-09-02 10:22:49
Pierrot, on 2008-09-02 04:16:38, said: It's the first time I feel relieved hearing a state of emergency has been declared. And from what I heard from friends and relatives, and very few of them are Samak's suporters, I'm far from the only one.
As eastwest says rightly " If the military stays behind Samak and the principles of elected government, Thai democracy and the rule of law might very well be strengthened."
Hope at last !
"IF" the military stands behind the elected government. That is not clear just yet. Unfortunately the generals have a history of backing the elite ruling class.
Posted 2008-09-02 10:23:10
To all those PAD supports every vote is equal no matter if it is from Illsan or from the Bangkok Elite so stop disrespecting your fellow Thais by claiming the farmers who put the food on your table are stupid and don’t deserve to have a equal say. It just shows your arrogance a disrespect for the poor hardworking folk who struggle everyday. No government should be appointed by few people with their own hidden agendas. PAD supporters should relize that you have gone way too far with your revolutionary rubbish and attempt to prompt a coup. You are so brainwashed that you cant even see what your leaders like Sondhi want for Thailand. You have lost all respect for people who don’t believe in your ideas. Your new politics idea is another form of dictatorship that is a step back into the troubled past. Wait for the next election and get rid of the government legally. Accept the democratic way, even if it isn't perfect its the fairest system we have to go by.
Posted 2008-09-02 10:23:10
OlRedEyes, on 2008-09-02 03:13:32, said: old wanderer, on 2008-09-02 10:04:23, said: OlRedEyes, on 2008-09-01 18:53:37, said: Austeyr, on 2008-09-02 09:36:15, said: Sad times.
Just ask yourself if this were your own country and the goverment which was in power was saturated with corruption and was'nt prepared to bring an ex leader to justice even though he had ripped off millions of tax payers money. Which side of the fence would you be on?
I'd ask myself if I contributed to the corruption, or ever spoke out against it.
Corruption in government would be a lot less if it isn't endemic all the way up from grassroots. No hope of finding moral people for government as long as corruption is mai-pen-rai'ed in every household and institution in the country.
A country gets the government it deserves. If the whole culture is accepting of corruption at every level, and contributes to it, no good crying when those kids that grew up with it get into power.
Are we all blind,,,,or cannot it be seen clearly that when the court refused the 2 million baht bribe, put some of the shirt-tail relatives of Pochiman in jail, then sentenced her and a few more corrupt relives to 3 years in jail the tide was finally starting to turn. Thaskin was next, and since it was in front of the Supreme court, had he be found guilty, he would leave the court room for the jail house with no appeal. He understood this, and ran.
If Samak is allowed to continue he will change the laws, to where what were serious crimes, are no longer crimes, and it will be a further license to steal by those in power.
It has to be done from the bottom up. The same court granted bail, in what I believe is an understanding that flight will follow. No real attempt at justice, simply window-dressing.
If they really wanted Thaksin to stay, they could have revoked his passport pending the case. His wife was released on bail after sentencing. One must be very blind or self-delusional to not see they wanted them outta here.
I don't believe for a second, and I'd think most foreigners here agree, that the PAD is any less corrupt than anyone else.
Rooting out corruption is a very thin excuse for getting to the trough.
There is no sign at all that the tide is turning.
Oh that old chestnut. Bit like the 'trickle down effect' from the rich to the poor that's been promulgated by the capitalist establishment since time immemorial, but in reverse.
Edited by jitagon, 2008-09-02 10:23:44.
Posted 2008-09-02 10:24:10
jitagon, on 2008-09-02 10:20:17, said: OlRedEyes, on 2008-09-02 02:53:37, said: Austeyr, on 2008-09-02 09:36:15, said: Sad times.
Just ask yourself if this were your own country and the goverment which was in power was saturated with corruption and was'nt prepared to bring an ex leader to justice even though he had ripped off millions of tax payers money. Which side of the fence would you be on?
I'd ask myself if I contributed to the corruption, or ever spoke out against it.
Corruption in government would be a lot less if it isn't endemic all the way up from grassroots. No hope of finding moral people for government as long as corruption is mai-pen-rai'ed in every household and institution in the country.
A country gets the government it deserves. If the whole culture is accepting of corruption at every level, and contributes to it, no good crying when those kids that grew up with it get into power.
Same as America. Only with Thailand, the rest of the world won't have to suffer for the crass stupidity of the electorate.
Amen.
Posted 2008-09-02 10:24:23
Recap :
-New chief of police installed
*-Bomb explodes next to police booth neard PAD, same pattern as before with unsolved bombings pointing to Thaksinistas.
-Chief Immediately declares no batons, shields only
-DAAD gathers drunken yobs
-Drunken yobs are allowed to hop onto m'cycles and walk the street with weapons clearly showing in hand.
-First police lines in light riot gear had the resistance of a paper wall on many occasions during DAAD march, seemed highly intentional
-One killed, over 40 injured.
-Decision already scheduled for today Sep 2 regarding PPP party disolution.
-Everyone waiting for Samak's next move.
-Samak declares STAT OF EMERGENCY, which doesn't allow more than 5 people to gather.
-How many EC members are supposed to gather today to decide on PPP's dissolution?
WILL THE EC RULE ON DISSOLUTION AS WAS PLANNED TODAY?
DOES THE STATE OF EMERGENCY ALLOW THEM TO MEET?
Would THE PPP ACKNOWLEDGE A DECISION OF DISSOLUTION MADE UNDER STATE OF EMERGENCY?
Edited by Tony Clifton, 2008-09-02 10:27:06.
Posted 2008-09-02 10:25:11
Chua, on 2008-09-01 19:30:40, said: From 2008-09-02 08:13:12: The state of emergency also prohibits news publicity in a way that terrifies the public.
Doesn't that mean this order is in violation of itself? Obviously Samak has only concern for himself, and have no clue what a HUGE negative impact the declaration of a state of emergency means to the rest of the world, especially investors & tourists. Samak's short-sighted efforts to save his own neck will be at the expense of all of Thailand.
Samak obviously intended and wanted this to happen. He & the PPP paid for buses to bring their supporters in from the North so they could deliberately start a fight and cause violence.
The PAD have been demonstrating peacefully for weeks and continue to be peaceful.
100% of the trouble is due to Samak & the PPP who organized and deliberately intended their supporters to cause the recent violence that now gives them the excuse to attack the PAD.
Samak Ow Pai!
If you expected that Samak would go down without a fight, then you are delusional. He will do anything and everything at his disposal to save himself and his government.
Posted 2008-09-02 10:25:28
The sudden influx to this Thai Visa site is astounding and must be borne in mind when reading many of these new posters comments, that is not meant in any way to disparage new posters merely to highlight the phenomenon.
Please abide by the guidelines and post politely.
Reason for edit was to correct spelling mistake.
Edited by LeungKen, 2008-09-02 10:27:02.
Posted 2008-09-02 10:26:14
JoeInSurin, on 2008-09-02 09:20:42, said: scrabbleking, on 2008-09-02 09:17:10, said: old wanderer, on 2008-09-02 08:42:47, said: I am a firm supporter of PAD and the protest....
It has always been a peaceful protest, in hopes of stopping further corruption and theft of the country to benefit a few at the top.
My wife bears the scars of the May 92 protest, when another corrupt government did the same thing to the people that were peacefully assembled. Many were killed and wounded.
The most peaceful outcome would be for word from on High to come down for Samak to find life elsewhere. I thought it would after his visit to Hua Hin last week.
RIGHT ON!!! I can't believe how many of the farangs posting on here have so little respect for the brave protesters who are standing up for a fair share of the pie, standing up to these elite few who steal from the common man. Does anybody remember the cival rights movement in America and MLK Jr. ???
You better hope it ends up better for the PAD than it did for MLK Jr..
Well funny you should mention that.
As a human and a parent and a walking talking individual it ended badly, or too soon fo MLKjr.
but for HIS GOALS it ended, no it DID NOT END, he became and icon
and his words took on a MUCH greater power than when he spoke them.
His legacy is running for president now, with a good chance of winning it.
His legacy is the great number of people who are free to do things their grandparents only hoped for.
Martin Luther King's protests in the streets that many in the opposition called illegal,
40 years on have taken on a legitimate a life of their own.
He has a national holiday and he is considered an icon of freedom,
and not just for african-americans either.
If he is looking down from above no doubt he smiles a lot.
He reached his goals, he just didn't LIVE to see it.
Posted 2008-09-02 10:27:14
TerryM, on 2008-09-02 08:31:30, said: So much for Democracy. I'm getting out of here while the getting is good before they shut down the main airport in Bangkok. I certainly don't want to be stuck here during a Revolution should it come to that.
Good! I hope you take a few more of your kind with you. Democracy comes at a cost and the Thais are paying, you need to go back to your comfortable little meaningless life and let real issues move forward. Puss!
The PM has failed to read Thai history, he will fall it is just a matter of time. A week at most. Now the RTA will have to sort all of this out on all sides.
PM out, charged
PAD go home , 6 arrested, charged
Thugs ( both sides) gathered up and re-educated
Tourist - go home for a month
Expats - live with it or jump a plane
Peace and then......
Hold new elections.
But before all that, just wait until tomorrow for a real show down.
Posted 2008-09-02 10:28:06
A protestor was so clever and used red medicine (looked like blood) in the body and claimed that police harmed people
Edited by Koo82, 2008-09-02 10:28:45.
Posted 2008-09-02 10:28:28
Koo82, on 2008-09-02 03:21:21, said: jitagon, on 2008-09-02 10:03:48, said: Koo82, on 2008-09-02 02:46:11, said: The Principal Law is made by the other side and some how supports the other side. My husband and I did not vote for that Law as it gives cracks for these protestors to climb up.
Many tv channels just deliver half of the news to support the protestors. NBT is telling all truths so they were the first to be attacked last week.
The panthamai LOL (panthamit) is going against the law. This has got to stop.
In our area, if they stop and water and electricity, we'll throw stones to them. They think they own the water & power plants. No. They just work there. These belong to public.
Arai wah??? NotAnotherNewBee.
Newbie here but oldbie in other forum
Why are you people finding it necessary to log in under new names? The rest of us don't give a flying one about who you are after all. You do realise this is only cyberspace and we don't know Where You Live under whatsoever moniker you use don't you? You all worried about your non existent reputations on a bloody expat forum? Do get a grip.
Posted 2008-09-02 10:29:23
Austeyr, on 2008-09-02 09:36:15, said: Sad times.
Just ask yourself if this were your own country and the goverment which was in power was saturated with corruption and was'nt prepared to bring an ex leader to justice even though he had ripped off millions of tax payers money. Which side of the fence would you be on?
The side that did not attempt to bring the government down with protests and civil disobedience and replace it with a government largely appointed by the military.
|
|
