543 replies to this topic
Posted 2008-09-04 21:15:04
 britmaveric, on 2008-09-04 20:02:19, said:
sriracha john, on 2008-09-04 19:34:10, said: bayrider, on 2008-09-04 17:40:46, said: Too bad the Thai government do not have the courage to just slaughter a few of the PAD protesters.
same as I told Britmaveric to his "crack their heads" suggestion... napalm would be quicker
Nah non-lethal ways of dispersing a crowd....
Teargas
rubber bullets
Batons
Water Canons (mind you - prob think it was Songkran)
Looks as if Samak will wait them out, so seems he is more patient then one would think. 
"crack their heads" from Britmaveric I can recall that posting.
Posted 2008-09-04 21:16:35
oblict, on 2008-09-04 20:14:33, said: britmaveric, on 2008-09-03 21:06:29, said: Hopefully its just a rumour - Thailand doesn't need Samak, but it needs the govt to stand up and squash the PAD for this political blackmail. If he resigns this definitely isn't good for Thailand and then we will repeat the same rubbish again and again.
I agree with this 100%. Samak is trying to make changes what a lot of people do not like. He should stand up an show the PAD who is in charge.
I don't think he want to do that, because it does not look like he is in charge.
Posted 2008-09-04 21:17:30
ThaiFelix, on 2008-09-04 21:19:17, said: lor, on 2008-09-04 19:02:26, said: I do not know how many other people have said this (I know at least one) but I wish to complain about the way Thaivisa gets people to visit the site.
The mass e-mail you sent out said "Breaking News: Samak to resign Thursday, Foreign Minister already resigned"
This was not true, and when you go to your site the "News" item said Rumour. To contact all your members as if it was true was a pure ploy to increase your visitor count. Anyone who has been a member of the forum for some time can see how commercial it has become. I have no problem with money making busineses but I believe you are deliberatly misleading members just to increase your profits. This mass e-mail was just one example.
Please be a bit more ethical in your attempts to make money.
Chris Heaton
I agree. I think its called media sensationalism!! Very disappointed.
Agreed.
I've been finding that there is far more opinion on this site than fact...and most of the opinions are rarely based upon logic. This email may be the last straw as I believe I'm pretty much done with ThaiVisa.com.
It's unfortunate since the site used to be much more dependable regarding occurrences within BKK and surroundings. Many of the posts now prefer to bashing of Bush/Americans, Europeans, Thai government affairs, etc. and likely written by misfits...instead of providing valued information concerning BKK, Thailand, and environs.
Posted 2008-09-04 21:17:44
H90 - crack heads, euphemism for clamp down, however I doubt you would understand smth as subtle as that. 
Edited by britmaveric, 2008-09-04 21:18:26.
Posted 2008-09-04 21:19:21
IAmMarchHare, on 2008-09-04 21:10:56, said: jitagon, on 2008-09-03 21:45:08, said: For the 774th time. He wasn't 'democratically elected'. He didn't get nearly enough votes and had to form a coalition with the other ones who were not 'democratically elected'.
So, all those coalition governments in other countries aren't democratically elected? Face it, there are different forms of democracy, and no country comes close to the original form of democracy. Even the US is a republic. You can keep repeating that he wasn't democratically elected, but the fact remains his party received the most votes and formed a coalition. That is a valid form of democracy.
For the 775th time, massive vote buying, therefore PPP and the coalition partners are on the way to get dissolved. Vote buying is no valid form of democracy.
Posted 2008-09-04 21:19:22
crazyeddie, on 2008-09-03 20:39:13, said: I just told the wife about this "news", and she asks why it is not being reported on TV? Then I log on to here and see it is merely a rumor. Passing on rumors this way is not very helpful, in my estimation, anyone can dream up stuff like that. Let's see what happens tomorrow, huh?
I totally agree. I think it is very irresponsible! Especially in such volitile times. 
Posted 2008-09-04 21:21:25
Tony Clifton, on 2008-09-03 22:14:08, said: The coalition parties had 5 conditions they said they would respect upon joining the PPP.
Once they joined, all 5 conditions vanished in a flash.
Yeah, how unlike politicians to break their promises. 
It still doesn't invalidate the process that got them there, however. What Thailand does not seem to have is an accepted legal way to remove unpopular politicians, such as impeachment.
Posted 2008-09-04 21:23:57
britmaveric, on 2008-09-04 21:17:44, said: H90 - crack heads, euphemism for clamp down, however I doubt you would understand smth as subtle as that.
Use other euphemism which are not about killing people. Specially in regard of 1976 and 1992 were they "cracked heads".
Posted 2008-09-04 21:28:14
IAmMarchHare, on 2008-09-04 21:21:25, said: Tony Clifton, on 2008-09-03 22:14:08, said: The coalition parties had 5 conditions they said they would respect upon joining the PPP.
Once they joined, all 5 conditions vanished in a flash.
Yeah, how unlike politicians to break their promises.
It still doesn't invalidate the process that got them there, however. What Thailand does not seem to have is an accepted legal way to remove unpopular politicians, such as impeachment.
Actually it would just need small adjustments: the laws for vote buying are OK but it shouldn't need years to dissolve parties.
Somehow it should be prevent that if a party is dissolved it can run immediately under a different name again.
Posted 2008-09-04 21:28:39
h90, on 2008-09-04 10:19:21, said: For the 775th time, massive vote buying, therefore PPP and the coalition partners are on the way to get dissolved. Vote buying is no valid form of democracy.
I believe you are confusing valid with ethical or legal. People normally vote for what they can get and/or someone who will substantiate what they believe. Sometimes it is subtle, like raising the minimum wage. Sometimes it is blatant. While I don't agree that it is a Good Thing to accept money for your vote, the fact is that all of the parties do it, and the fact is that if all of them that did it were dissolved, there would be no one left. Unethical? OK. Illegal? I guess that is why red cards are being handed out. Invalid? Not necessarily. TIT, and that is the practice.
Posted 2008-09-04 21:30:32
h90, on 2008-09-04 10:28:14, said: IAmMarchHare, on 2008-09-04 21:21:25, said: Tony Clifton, on 2008-09-03 22:14:08, said: The coalition parties had 5 conditions they said they would respect upon joining the PPP.
Once they joined, all 5 conditions vanished in a flash.
Yeah, how unlike politicians to break their promises.
It still doesn't invalidate the process that got them there, however. What Thailand does not seem to have is an accepted legal way to remove unpopular politicians, such as impeachment.
Actually it would just need small adjustments: the laws for vote buying are OK but it shouldn't need years to dissolve parties.
Somehow it should be prevent that if a party is dissolved it can run immediately under a different name again.
Unfortunately, easier said than done. So, here we are.
Posted 2008-09-04 22:52:49
Oh Dear, Its Not Final Yet
Posted by Thanong, Reader "The Nation"
Samak Sundaravej, the prime minister, felt sorry that he had disappointed several people. He would not resign, nor would he dissolve Parliament.
It is all his trick. He has no intention whatsoever to step down.
Yesterday there were rumours that he would go on Radio of Thailand at 7:30 AM today to announce his resignation. It was unusual for the prime minister to book a radio programme of the Public Relations of Thailand at that early hour of Thursday because he could always speak wherever he would like to. An army of media and reporters have been following his trails wherever he goes.
Besides, Samak has his own weekly TV and radio talk show, Conversation in the Style of Samak, on Sunday broadcast through NBT and Radio of Thailand.
In his radio address this morning, Samak repeated his determination to stay on as prime minister and defend democracy till the end. Nobody could apply pressure on him. This time around he tried to use a more amiable tone to calm the nerve of his audience.
Sorry, I have disappointed you all.
Samak outlined the similar reason of his decision to stay on that he gave on Sunday at the joint session of the Senate and Parliament, where no resolution was reached over how the lawmakers would deal with the political crises.
Known as the Great Communicator, Samak did not want to use the TV to convey his message this time. He would like to reach a broader mass of the Thais living in the countryside. Radio serves him as a better medium. He spoke with easy language to appeal to the rural mass, hoping to rally for their support of his premiership and his administration.
In the afternoon, he also went on a radio talk show hosted by Weera Thiraphat. Again, the prime minister hoped to reach his grass-roots audience, including the taxi-drivers and common people.
Weera is a famous radio host, known for his hard-hitting comment and analysis. (You get a slap in the face if you phone into his programme and ask a stupid question.)
Samak plans to speak directly to his audience via 140 radio stations nationwide. He will be handling his own propaganda war.
In between his Cabinet, which met at an army headquarters because the Government House had been hijacked, approved to resolve the political crisis by holding a national referendum.
Somsak Prisnananthakul, the deputy leader of the Chat Thai Party, proposed this idea to the Cabinet meeting. The old politician like Banharn Silapa-archa would never lose his shine. Chat Thai wants to hang on to this sinking ship to the last minute. The party has not begun yet.
It is part of a delaying tactic. To start with, it is funny that the Samak Cabinet plans to launch a referendum on whether the Thais still prefers the Samak government to continue to run the country; or on between the People's Alliance for Democracy and the Samak Government, which side the Thais take.
A referendum is only introduced on very hard and serious issue that critically determines the future of the country, such as approval or disapproval of a new constitution, joining or not joining the Single Asian Currency. No country in this world introduces a referendum on an unregistered movement like the PAD or on a simple question of whether you like this government or not.
Anyway, it serves to show the whole world that Samak is sticking to the democratic principles against the mob rule at the Government House.
In the meantime, Samak said the protesters can continue to occupy the Government House until the referendum is finished. He would like the Council of the State, the legal advisory body of the administration, to consider the possibility of the referendum.
The referendum law, which has passed the House of Representatives, is now in the Senate process. The Senate will have to pass the law within 90 days. So when will the referendum ever get started?
But more importantly, Samak's lip service on the referendum is an answer to Army Chief Gen Anupong Paochinda, Abhisit Vejjajiva, the Democrat leader, and the public at large for him to resolve the political crises via Parliament.
If you want Parliament to solve this issue, so be it. Let's have a referendum.
In the meantime, Bangkok is going through the State of Emergency for the third day, without any incidents but with growing signs of state failure. Thailand's credit is plummeting.
Posted 2008-09-04 22:58:03
Posted 2008-09-04 23:00:37
Have to agree with Ironhut, this thread has become a farce, I have now learnt that falangs here can't see the difference between the US [mainly] and Europe [minority] and the others that are so entrenched into the [Thai] way that constructive debate is a waste of time.
I hoped this forum would give reasoned debate and information, whilst we all disagree with each other, slagging each other off and flaming lends weight to the Thai problem that there is no solution.
Think about it.
Posted 2008-09-04 23:04:37
Yep the idea of one person one vote is lost in the eather-heads..
Posted 2008-09-04 23:08:40
IAmMarchHare, on 2008-09-04 21:28:39, said: h90, on 2008-09-04 10:19:21, said: For the 775th time, massive vote buying, therefore PPP and the coalition partners are on the way to get dissolved. Vote buying is no valid form of democracy.
I believe you are confusing valid with ethical or legal. People normally vote for what they can get and/or someone who will substantiate what they believe. Sometimes it is subtle, like raising the minimum wage. Sometimes it is blatant. While I don't agree that it is a Good Thing to accept money for your vote, the fact is that all of the parties do it, and the fact is that if all of them that did it were dissolved, there would be no one left. Unethical? OK. Illegal? I guess that is why red cards are being handed out. Invalid? Not necessarily. TIT, and that is the practice.
Not all do it, at the democrats are just minor cases. And no mater who is doing it there should go to the court, and if all parties need to get dissolved than so shall it be, the next parties (not that Thailand does not has enough parties) will be more carefully.
the problem of a vacuum will be just a short time.
Posted 2008-09-04 23:10:43
IAmMarchHare, on 2008-09-04 21:30:32, said: h90, on 2008-09-04 10:28:14, said: IAmMarchHare, on 2008-09-04 21:21:25, said: Tony Clifton, on 2008-09-03 22:14:08, said: The coalition parties had 5 conditions they said they would respect upon joining the PPP.
Once they joined, all 5 conditions vanished in a flash.
Yeah, how unlike politicians to break their promises.
It still doesn't invalidate the process that got them there, however. What Thailand does not seem to have is an accepted legal way to remove unpopular politicians, such as impeachment.
Actually it would just need small adjustments: the laws for vote buying are OK but it shouldn't need years to dissolve parties.
Somehow it should be prevent that if a party is dissolved it can run immediately under a different name again.
Unfortunately, easier said than done. So, here we are.
Yes, not easy. However there seems to be more exposure and more objecton to election corruption then ever before. If the 30-50,000 PAD members agreed to man the voting sites to document and report on sites not following the proper procedures, they would accomplish so much more then their negative tactics. However, I think that would never happen because the populist party would still be elected and PAD would need to find another excuse to oppose the elected party.
Posted 2008-09-04 23:13:45
stuandchris, on 2008-09-04 23:00:37, said: Have to agree with Ironhut, this thread has become a farce, I have now learnt that falangs here can't see the difference between the US [mainly] and Europe [minority] and the others that are so entrenched into the [Thai] way that constructive debate is a waste of time.
I hoped this forum would give reasoned debate and information, whilst we all disagree with each other, slagging each other off and flaming lends weight to the Thai problem that there is no solution.
Think about it.
I agree! No news anymore, no discussion, just flaming.....
Maybe all no matter what opinion should step a bit back and increase quality
Posted 2008-09-04 23:18:51
h90, on 2008-09-04 23:08:40, said: IAmMarchHare, on 2008-09-04 21:28:39, said: h90, on 2008-09-04 10:19:21, said: For the 775th time, massive vote buying, therefore PPP and the coalition partners are on the way to get dissolved. Vote buying is no valid form of democracy.
I believe you are confusing valid with ethical or legal. People normally vote for what they can get and/or someone who will substantiate what they believe. Sometimes it is subtle, like raising the minimum wage. Sometimes it is blatant. While I don't agree that it is a Good Thing to accept money for your vote, the fact is that all of the parties do it, and the fact is that if all of them that did it were dissolved, there would be no one left. Unethical? OK. Illegal? I guess that is why red cards are being handed out. Invalid? Not necessarily. TIT, and that is the practice.
Not all do it, at the democrats are just minor cases. And no mater who is doing it there should go to the court, and if all parties need to get dissolved than so shall it be, the next parties (not that Thailand does not has enough parties) will be more carefully.
the problem of a vacuum will be just a short time.
However, if someone benefited from Thailand not having an elected government, one tactic might be to outlaw all political parties by setting voting standards that were unreasonable. There are many ways to disrupt young democracies. Easy to break, difficult to build.
Posted 2008-09-04 23:26:47
Plus, on 2008-09-04 03:03:28, said: PAD proposing to change one article in the Constutution to find a legal way out of a stalemate situation. Samak wants to alter the laws to save his ass from prosecution. Don't you see the difference?
--[snip]--
Yes, the first is blackmail, and the second is fraud. Next question...
Posted 2008-09-04 23:28:59
cmsally, on 2008-09-04 02:43:21, said: ...
For me PAD have lost all credibility unless maybe you are on some mind altering substance. It looks more like he croquet game in Alice in Wonderland where the hoops and balls etc change by the minute just so she (the character - I think it was a queen or duchess) wins.
The Queen of Hearts (if anyone cares)
Posted 2008-09-05 01:30:43
ironhut, on 2008-09-04 08:17:30, said: It's unfortunate since the site used to be much more dependable regarding occurrences within BKK and surroundings. Many of the posts now prefer to bashing of Bush/Americans, Europeans, Thai government affairs, etc. and likely written by misfits...instead of providing valued information concerning BKK, Thailand, and environs.
+1
Posted 2008-09-05 04:42:11
britmaveric, on 2008-09-04 21:17:44, said: H90 - crack heads, euphemism for clamp down, however I doubt you would understand smth as subtle as that.
Your euphemisms have no bounds.
Even more subtle in poor dead people`s topics for family and friends to read. 
http://www.thaivisa....=...t&p=2034383
Edited by Tony Clifton, 2008-09-05 04:46:02.
Posted 2008-09-05 06:43:24
IAmMarchHare, on 2008-09-04 23:26:47, said: Plus, on 2008-09-04 03:03:28, said: PAD proposing to change one article in the Constutution to find a legal way out of a stalemate situation. Samak wants to alter the laws to save his ass from prosecution. Don't you see the difference?
--[snip]--
Yes, the first is blackmail, and the second is fraud. Next question...
So Sondhi goes to the media and proposes a legal way out of a situation, and you call it "blackmail".
He also proposed an interim government by PPP commited to political reform, is it also a blackmail?
Samak has to go simply for losing control and credibility, it doesn't even matter whether PAD is right/wrong/popular/unpopular - it's gone too far for Samak to stay. Let someone else sort out this mess.
Posted 2008-09-05 07:09:32
Plus, on 2008-09-05 06:43:24, said: IAmMarchHare, on 2008-09-04 23:26:47, said: Plus, on 2008-09-04 03:03:28, said: PAD proposing to change one article in the Constutution to find a legal way out of a stalemate situation. Samak wants to alter the laws to save his ass from prosecution. Don't you see the difference?
--[snip]--
Yes, the first is blackmail, and the second is fraud. Next question...
So Sondhi goes to the media and proposes a legal way out of a situation, and you call it "blackmail".
He also proposed an interim government by PPP commited to political reform, is it also a blackmail?
Samak has to go simply for losing control and credibility, it doesn't even matter whether PAD is right/wrong/popular/unpopular - it's gone too far for Samak to stay. Let someone else sort out this mess.
Is there anyone left on that side of the fence who is NOT a criminal litigant AND who truly earned a valid university degree?
Edited by Tony Clifton, 2008-09-05 07:09:50.
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