I assume PR for Thailand would mean parlament formed on the basis of party list vote only. That sounds good, but there are caveats, too. How the local interests will be represented on the national level? Eventually there will be interest overlaps, like with Southern seaboard or nuclear power station - national projects that affect local people, but how to make their voices heard?
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Samak Will Announce Resignation Thursday Morning?UPDATE: Foreign Minister quits, Samak denies plans to resign
Started by george, 2008-09-03 20:12
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543 replies to this topic
#527
Thaitanium Member Posted 2008-09-05 15:38:58
As the Issan people are called Issan people alike a kind of race. Would you call the PAD members: Sino-Thai, Thai, Siamese or do you think the current problem has NOTHING to do with ethnic groups (if any ethnic groups in Thailand)? I do not want to be provocative. I just want to understand. + You who discuss with PAD people, did you really hear stories about Issan people being... well... not as clever as them? If yes, why: being uneducated or being Issan? If too provocative, please delete my post. If I understand what you're saying, it's not provocative at all. I don't think ethnic politics play into it. The PAD has supporters from all regions of the country, as any visit to the protest site will reveal. And there are plenty of Thais of all backgrounds who may not be fully pro-PAD but who still want Samak and PPP out. The Democrats received the highest popular vote in the 2007 elections. If Samak had treated the coalition with respect, the PAD wouldn't have come out in the first place. I haven't heard any Isan or other ethnic slurs from PAD supporters. Most of the leadership on both sides of the conflict is Chinese Thai, but that's nothing new. I believe many Isan MPs are of Chinese descent as well. #528
Star Member Posted 2008-09-05 16:07:30
Actaully, after the final tally, PPP pipped the Democrats by a few thousand in the party list votes. Democrats led the count until the last minute.
#529
Sabai Sabai Member Posted 2008-09-05 17:06:02
As the Issan people are called Issan people alike a kind of race. Would you call the PAD members: Sino-Thai, Thai, Siamese or do you think the current problem has NOTHING to do with ethnic groups (if any ethnic groups in Thailand)? I do not want to be provocative. I just want to understand. + You who discuss with PAD people, did you really hear stories about Issan people being... well... not as clever as them? If yes, why: being uneducated or being Issan? If too provocative, please delete my post. If I understand what you're saying, it's not provocative at all. I don't think ethnic politics play into it. The PAD has supporters from all regions of the country, as any visit to the protest site will reveal. And there are plenty of Thais of all backgrounds who may not be fully pro-PAD but who still want Samak and PPP out. The Democrats received the highest popular vote in the 2007 elections. If Samak had treated the coalition with respect, the PAD wouldn't have come out in the first place. I haven't heard any Isan or other ethnic slurs from PAD supporters. Most of the leadership on both sides of the conflict is Chinese Thai, but that's nothing new. I believe many Isan MPs are of Chinese descent as well. But Sondhi has said things about this, and in light of his beliefs/suggestions about new politics seems to recognise the differences between middle classes and the rural poor. "Then here I came and they all came out because I represent them. Ninety percent of the middle class have Chinese blood. They look up at me and say, he is my man who dares to speak on my behalf. And I sincerely believe and still do that if we can organize this middle class well, arouse their political rights, telling them that they have rights as much as the elite have, it's time to get up and protect our rights, that is a threat. http://www.atimes.co...a/ID27Ae02.html I don't believe the majority of PAD supporters think like this, but such a statement as this from a leader is very worrying particularly with the blame for Thailand's problems being partly laid at the rural poor's feet. #530
Senior Member Posted 2008-09-05 17:13:29
There is much being said about the rights and votes of the Isaan poor. But what about this government's 'you are either for us or against us' mentality? What about the southern poor, the central region poor? They are not being represented by this government and they are just as disenchanted as the so called urban elite. While money is being poured into those who voted for the government, what happens to those Thai citizens who also voted but for - in the gov's eyes - the wrong party?
#531
Thaitanium Member Posted 2008-09-05 17:18:01
Actaully, after the final tally, PPP pipped the Democrats by a few thousand in the party list votes. Democrats led the count until the last minute. The Thai government has a website that posts final results, and it showed the Dems ahead by a few thou. I can't find the link now but I browsed through it a couple of days ago. At any rate the PPP filled the seats it needed to put Samak in the PM's seat. #532
Thaitanium Member Posted 2008-09-05 17:18:02
Actaully, after the final tally, PPP pipped the Democrats by a few thousand in the party list votes. Democrats led the count until the last minute. The Thai government has a website that posts final results, and it showed the Dems ahead by a few thou. I can't find the link now but I browsed through it a couple of days ago. Do you have a source? #533
Sabai Sabai Member Posted 2008-09-05 17:30:41
There is much being said about the rights and votes of the Isaan poor. But what about this government's 'you are either for us or against us' mentality? What about the southern poor, the central region poor? They are not being represented by this government and they are just as disenchanted as the so called urban elite. While money is being poured into those who voted for the government, what happens to those Thai citizens who also voted but for - in the gov's eyes - the wrong party? Equally, Thaksin saying if you don't vote for me you don't get any money was one of the most abominable things I have ever heard. The whole system is wrong, but I fear greatly what might happen if the ideas of Sondhi are given real credence. I would love to be proven wrong but who would have thought that Thailand could be in such a mess. Why would one want to take anything away from the poor of the country? And believe me they are poor. From the Post today: http://www.bangkokpo...2008_news13.php "To PAD watchers like Professor Prabhas Pintoptang of Chulalongkorn's faculty of political science, the coalition has been seen as planting structural hatred and division in society on a scale far worse than that ever achieved by the previous government under ousted premier Thaksin Shinawatra." "Just days after Prof Prabhas criticised the PAD through his writings, his name was mentioned on the PAD stage, with the subjective argument that Prof Prabhas had worked for years with the Assembly of the Poor (AOP) as an adviser simply to gain popularity." Edited by Thai at Heart, 2008-09-05 17:31:06. #534
Sabai Sabai Member Posted 2008-09-05 17:37:38
Well I was trying to give them the benefit of the doubt, about ethnicity, but here it is:
http://www.prachatai...news.php?id=789 During the first 25 days of the rally, the PAD received 26 million baht and paid 24 million, according to the PAD’s coordinator Suriyasai Katasila. During the three months, the PAD has sold 90,000 ‘Patriotic Chinese Descendants’ t-shirts for 25 million baht, according to political scientist and Sondhi Limthongkul’s close associate Chai-Anan Samudavanija. And after the Government House siege, the PAD has 6.6 million baht remaining in its bank accounts, plus gold worth 1,056,000 baht, according to one of the PAD’s leaders, Chamlong Srimuang. Edited by Thai at Heart, 2008-09-05 17:38:35. #535
Super Member Posted 2008-09-05 17:54:08
Imho the PAD would be better off arguing for stronger, better and more independent check and balance mechanisms particularly in terms of electoral oversight, and a greater transparency in all things political and of course any chnage to the constitituion that allows government to nullify these mechanisms. That is reasonable and part of the debate over freedom of elected government to act versus mechnisms to stop governmental abuse. I agree, I find the PAD's idea of 'new politics' very scary. I understand why they think the rural majority aren't educated enough to make informed decisions, however returning to appointed officials is a step backwards. No government has really tried to reform education or make rural ppl aware of their rights. I believe the elite are scared of the prospect of Isan ppl becoming empowered and challenging their grip on power and this is reflected in many of the things being said by PAD supporters. If Thais want to begin to discuss democracy, they need to write a constitution that allows voters in their respective province, every province, to elect their own governor, rather than the governor being appointed by the central government in Bangkok. The rural poor thus could govern themselves without the overly great reliance on the central government in Bangkok. Power in Thailand is too centralized in Bangkok. Thus, the constant bickering among elites to control the entire country from Bangkok. Voters in each kampang (county) and in each umper (municipality) should have the franchise to elect their own local leaders instead of having the leaders below the provincial level also being appointed from Bangkok. Let's get to the root causes of the messes Thailand's always in. Let the diverse demographic groups, the various regional groups et al. govern themselves. Unless democracy happens in Thailand, throughout every level of life and decision making in Thailand, the country will continue to have elites in Bangkok struggling to take complete control of Bangkok itself and the entire country. Substantially and significantly reduce the power of the central government in Bangkok. Begin to change the nature of the game from win-lose to win-win. It's elemental to successful democracy in Thailand, whether it's called Western style or Thai style democracy. #536
Platinum Member Posted 2008-09-06 04:38:03
Actaully, after the final tally, PPP pipped the Democrats by a few thousand in the party list votes. Democrats led the count until the last minute. The Thai government has a website that posts final results, and it showed the Dems ahead by a few thou. I can't find the link now but I browsed through it a couple of days ago. Do you have a source? #537
Star Member Posted 2008-09-06 11:04:04
If Thais want to begin to discuss democracy, they need to write a constitution that allows voters in their respective province, every province, to elect their own governor, rather than the governor being appointed by the central government in Bangkok. The rural poor thus could govern themselves without the overly great reliance on the central government in Bangkok. Good lord, where have you been all these years - they'd already put that in the constution (short of governor elections), there are several layers or local elections, but... The problem was that Thaksin increased his personal, off books, central fund to 20% of all government budget, and didn't increase local budgets at all (still just above 20%, I think). Thaksin used that enourmous "cpecial budget" to fund all kind of populist schemes anywhere he fancied, there was no parlament oversight whatsoever. That fund was a chick magnet to keep all local government bodies under complete control - you don't get any funds for your constituency if you don't brown nose the TRT hierarchy. Last time the point was raised at the no-confidence debate a couple of months ago. Democrats charged that it was unconsitutional, but who listened? #538
Advanced Member Posted 2008-09-06 17:13:12
Well, it didn't happen.
Did the guy run naked wherever he said he would? Anyone see him? Maybe Samak will resign next week, eh? It's a tough call whom to support, when you have an ultra-right-wing, democratically elected PM and a retro-active PAD in opposition, where the Thai People want them to be. #539
Tourist Posted 2008-09-09 01:20:59
Thai PM vows to fight on despite court threat
Posted 4 hours 22 minutes ago Thai Prime Minister Samak Sundaravej has vowed not to resign or dissolve parliament ahead of a court ruling that could force him from power in less than 24 hours. "I declare that I will not dissolve parliament. I will not quit. I will fight on," the 73-year-old told thousands of cheering supporters in the north-eastern town of Udon Thani, stronghold of his ruling People Power Party (PPP). "This government has done nothing wrong," he said. Despite his defiance, it could be one of his last speeches as leader. http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2008/09...?section=justin #540
Senior Member Posted 2008-09-09 14:18:16
Hi All.
Samak in a defiant mood in this weeks cabinet meeting in Udon Thani, I wonder where next weeks meeting will be held?Pattani Songkla, Phuket, Anyone know?. Phupaman #541
Crazy Member Posted 2008-09-09 15:57:03
Hi All. Samak in a defiant mood in this weeks cabinet meeting in Udon Thani, I wonder where next weeks meeting will be held?Pattani Songkla, Phuket, Anyone know?. Phupaman I bet neither of these 3.... #542
Advanced Member Posted 2008-09-09 16:40:28
Samak is history. George, hurry the eff up and get this to the top end of News Clippings.
http://www.nationmultimedia.com/breakingne...newsid=30082993 #543
Star Member Posted 2008-09-11 19:55:09
Time to close this thread, methinks.
#544
Super Member Posted 2008-09-12 17:46:42
Samak to resign as party leader: source
Samak Sundaravej plans to resign as the People Power Party leader and will not accept his nomination as the next prime minister, a source close to him said Friday. The Nation Time to close the thread. |
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