« Prev Page 5 of 5 3 4 5 112 replies to this topic

[permanent_disorder]

Thai court rewards criminality
By Awzar Thi
Column: Rule of Lords

Hong Kong, China — History repeated itself in Thailand this week when a top court for the second time in as many years dissolved the biggest political party, along with two of its partners, and effectively banned its leader and executive members from politics.  
The Constitutional Court, which inherited the job from an interim tribunal that issued a similar order against the former ruling party last May, unanimously disbanded the three coalition partners in accordance with section 237 of the 2007 Constitution.  Under this remarkable clause, which an unelected panel wrote into the charter on behalf of the 2006 coup makers, political parties must be dissolved if it can be shown that they failed to prevent electoral offences from occurring in their ranks.  
In football, this would be the equivalent of a rule that if one player gets a red card, the whole team is disqualified from the league, with the captain and coach sent into early retirement.  
The ruling allowed the political extremists, who had brought thousands of human shields to occupy the airports for a week, to declare victory and go home in time for the king’s birthday on Friday.  

Irrespective of the formal grounds for the sentence, in timing and content it has been perceived as endorsing the extremists’ ideology and goals. In effect, the court has indicated that while vote buying cannot be tolerated, hijacking public facilities, vandalizing property, shooting at people and vehicles, illegally detaining fellow citizens, attacking state officers and setting up a proxy police force not only can be tolerated but can even be rewarded. Perhaps appropriately, the verdict was handed down with pro-government demonstrators outside calling the judges stooges, forcing them to change venue and smashing a generator to shut off their electricity supply. The aggressive public attacks on the court and its personnel are unusual for Thailand, and speak not only to the intensity of the current conflict but also to how far vested interests have drawn the judiciary into the fray.  

The judges insisted that having found the politicians guilty of wrongdoing they had no alternative other than to dissolve the three parties. But is this true? Could they not, in principle at least, have done otherwise? One problem is that the court was called to decide on a narrow legal question that was itself predicated upon a series of other significant political and judicial events over the last couple of years.  
As has been customary in Thailand, the top courts did nothing in response to the 2006 military takeover, and allowed themselves to be used for its purposes. The May 2007 judgment tacitly endorsed the regime, and the court that sat this week was set up under the regressive Constitution that followed in its wake. This September, in an equally surreal judgment, it sacked the prime minister for cooking on television.  
The court could not contradict the earlier rulings. Nor could it call into question the contents of the section upon which the fate of the government hung, and which the Parliament had been set to amend last month. But that does not mean that it had no alternative. Judges around the world have often refused to rule on pressing political questions, aware that to do so would damage the fragile public confidence in their work and threaten their integrity.  

Perhaps the most significant case of this sort in recent years was that which handed George W. Bush his first term as U.S. president.  
Although the Supreme Court then made itself responsible for sorting out the mess caused by ballot problems in Florida, four dissenting judges warned that it had been dragged into an issue that it could not satisfactorily resolve and to which it did not belong. One of them, Justice Stephen Breyer, recounted an important lesson from history to explain why.
In 1876, a panel was established to figure out who had won that year’s presidential election. Five of the 15 members were judges. They were expected, as in so many things in Thailand these days, to lend an air of impartiality and fairness.  
One of the justices cast the deciding vote. The losing party accused him of accepting bribes, and he was widely lambasted. But whether he was dishonest or not is beside the point for the purposes of the historical lesson, Breyer made clear. What matters was that the presence of the judges did not give the panel more legitimacy.  “Nor did it assure the public that the process had worked fairly, guided by the law,” he wrote. “Rather, it simply embroiled Members of the Court in partisan conflict, thereby undermining respect for the judicial process.”  
History has vindicated Breyer and his dissenting peers. Public esteem of the U.S. Supreme Court has slipped to perhaps its lowest level in decades, as a result of the judgment in favor of Bush over Al Gore, and other judgments since. The court may have put someone in government, but as in 1876 it did not give credibility to that person or government. It merely brought more censure and dispute to its own doors.  

Thailand’s Constitutional Court has again taken someone out of government, but it too has not added credibility to anyone or anything. Instead, it has once more played the fool, and once more made a mockery of the justice that it purportedly represents.  
Did it have an alternative? Of course it did. It could, and should, simply have refused to decide. That it didn’t is not for want of an alternative. It’s because it wasn’t looking for one.

http://ratchasima.ne....ds-criminality
(Awzar Thi is the pen name of a member of the Asian Human Rights Commission with over 15 years of experience as an advocate of human rights and the rule of law in Thailand and Burma.

______________________________________

note:  
1. before the credibility got questioned. the Asien Human Rights Commision is a NGO. i recommend a look at http://www.ahrc-thailand.net  and check  the archive, the publication that are online.
you can find information about tak bai, the case of  missing lawyer Somchai, the abduction and killings by kalasin police for example.
if you suspicious that AHRC is pro Thaksin, read the 2005 report:  institutionalised torture, extrajudicial killings & uneven application of law in thailand.
2. read the text on the original page, because it contains a lot of hyperlinks that provide additional information.

[Koo82]

permanent_disorder, on 2008-12-05 17:26:44, said:

The judges insisted that having found the politicians guilty of wrongdoing they had no alternative other than to dissolve the three parties. But is this true? Could they not, in principle at least, have done otherwise? One problem is that the court was called to decide on a narrow legal question that was itself predicated upon a series of other significant political and judicial events over the last couple of years.
As has been customary in Thailand, the top courts did nothing in response to the 2006 military takeover, and allowed themselves to be used for its purposes. The May 2007 judgment tacitly endorsed the regime, and the court that sat this week was set up under the regressive Constitution that followed in its wake. This September, in an equally surreal judgment, it sacked the prime minister for cooking on television.
The court could not contradict the earlier rulings. Nor could it call into question the contents of the section upon which the fate of the government hung, and which the Parliament had been set to amend last month. But that does not mean that it had no alternative. Judges around the world have often refused to rule on pressing political questions, aware that to do so would damage the fragile public confidence in their work and threaten their integrity.

Thanks for posting this.

Tell me that the Constitution Court now starts to judge Democrat Party for buying votes.

The people who can save bloodshed now is the Court. But if the judges only judge one side, who can ever trust them?

Now I wish whatever Court could judge PAD leaders as quick as they judged the 3 parties PPP, CT and MT.

Or they won't do that because they have to concentrate on Peue Thai members.

Edited by Koo82, 2008-12-06 12:38:41.

[permanent_disorder]

Is Sondhi's PAD now a brainwashed political cult?
By Pravit Rojanaphruk
The Nation
Published on December 5, 2008


So the prophet said it over the weekend: "If by dying the country will improve, let death visit us today. It's better than being alive otherwise".
These Davidian-like words were from no other than the supreme prophet, Sondhi Limthongkul, leader of the self-styled anti-Thaksin and anti-government People's Alliance for Democracy on Saturday, as he anticipated a possible clash with the police as the government tried to re-capture Bangkok's Suvarnabhumi Airport, invaded and occupied by the protesters.
Today the PAD movement resembles a political cult. Sondhi himself was a former cheerleader of Thaksin Shinawatra but is now a repentant man on a mission to eradicate Thaksin and his proxy from power. This gives him an almost messianic aura and mission. And there are rituals PAD supporters have gone through over the past two years, in order to prepare them for their "final battle". Never mind if the expression "final battle" has been used many times by PAD leadership - like some born-again Christians who await the Judgement Day, the date can always be re-set to fit the expired deadline.
One daily ritual PAD followers and members go through at their protest sites is the highly frenzied clapping of hands and cheering, encouraged by their five leaders who appear on stage almost every evening. Co-leaders like Sondhi and Somsak Kosaisuk, and others, enter the stage and lift their hands with palms upward, exciting their followers into frenzies. There's also the daily queue for free donated hot meals at the site; and T-shirts glorifying the leaders and their cause to protect the monarchy and promote their controversial "New Politics" of governance. Daily one-sided news and analysis feeds followers through ASTV satellite television and the Manager Group of newspapers. Even plastic Swatch-like watches with faces of the five PAD co-leaders can be purchased for Bt199 at Government House.
This, along with the good and bad times, and the loss of life and injuries among fellow followers, has bonded them.
Gathering in large numbers creates a sense of what anthropologists call "communitas": a heightened bond which threatens law and order as the mob feels invincible and empowered by its sheer numbers.
This kind of ritual and experience has been fostered over the months and it's wrong to simply blame the leaders for brainwashing their followers. The supporters' frenzied response and support has created a mutual brainwashing of the leaders too. A leader like Sondhi must be heavily intoxicated by his own propaganda, as if he is capable of ordering his people to do anything and at whatever cost.
These prophets also promote the worshipping of the Thai monarchy institution. Everyone was encouraged to wear yellow, symbolising the present King. But whether people like Sondhi are true royalists is debatable. The media's inability to discuss the role of the Thai monarchy due to censorship laws and culture has hampered the analysis and understanding of the current political crisis, to say the least.
As for Thaksin. PAD followers do not just hate his actions but deeply abhor the man, his cronies and proxies including Somchai Wongsawat. Thaksin to them is like Satan, and must be destroyed.
It's thus a zero-sum game in their view and no price is too high. Never mind the Thai economy is now reeling from the shutting down of two airports, their prophet claims they would rather die than allow the current regime and Thaksin to cling to power.
Sondhi himself told the PM to first resign, then they would negotiate. But what is left to negotiate? Such a remark reflects how out of touch the PAD leader has become.
After months of mutual brainwashing, and with the majority of Thai mainstream media nurturing and uncritically psupporting them, these people no longer dwell in rationality, law and responsibility. By now, the PAD has grown into a self-righteous semi-fascist monster propelled by its own intolerant political cult willing to ruin Thailand in order to achieve its elusive political "salvation".
They may have left the airports now, but in their victory statement, the PAD leaders didn't even offer any word of apology or contrition for the immense damage they have caused.
The question now is what to do with these people who may return to the streets sooner than anyone expected?

http://www.nationmul...cs_30090273.php

[Ulysses G.]

permanent_disorder, on 2008-12-06 19:07:51, said:

As for Thaksin. PAD followers do not just hate his actions but deeply abhor the man, his cronies and proxies including Somchai Wongsawat. Thaksin to them is like Satan, and must be destroyed. It's thus a zero-sum game in their view and no price is too high. Never mind the Thai economy is now reeling from the shutting down of two airports, their prophet claims they would rather die than allow the current regime and Thaksin to cling to power.
Sondhi himself told the PM to first resign, then they would negotiate. But what is left to negotiate? Such a remark reflects how out of touch the PAD leader has become.

This is the same thing that I find with the farang PAD apologists on Thai Visa and out on the street. They hate Thaksin so much that any price is worth paying to get rid of him, but if you pin them down, they will admit that he has never done anything that is all that evil (many will even admit that they think killing all the drug dealers might have improved the country), but that they are afraid that he will do something in the future. I'm sorry, but this is not a science fiction film. We can not convict people for what we think they might do.  

Edited by Ulysses G., 2008-12-06 19:28:56.

[permanent_disorder]

Ulysses G., on 2008-12-06 20:27:30, said:

This is the same thing that I find with the farang PAD apologists on Thai Visa and out on the street. They hate Thaksin so much that any price is worth paying to get rid of him, but if you pin them down, they will admit that he has never done anything that is all that evil (many will even admit that they think killing all the drug dealers might have improved the country), but that they are afraid that he will do something in the future. I'm sorry, but this is not a science fiction film. We can not convict people for what we think they might do.  

it's the Beer Bars that got closed earlier under thaksin that does them make to such haters. they fail to see that behind such policy, thaksins longtime mentor and advisor Chamlong stands. the prohibitionist and uber moralist. after Chamlong left TRT, TRT or PPP still continue with such ideas like a ban on the sale of alcohol on buddhist holidays.

and in threads like this Crackdown-Alcohol-Public-Holidays you can spot a lot of them and see exposing themself how clueless they are and what might be the main motivation for their Thaksin hate and pro-PAD  mumble.
and lots of envy on the money that this evil man has. nothing more.

but i would say, that it's possible to discuss a predicted future. and have a look a the posebilities that might be and come. and if one see a danger and dark clouds coming, he should get the chance to voice his concerns. elaborate and explain why he think so. then the audience will check is there rational significance and reason or at least a point or only Gagga.

but of course we can not convict people for what they might be do and put them in Schutzhaft or their family in Sippenhaft.

[Koo82]

Ulysses G., on 2008-12-06 19:27:30, said:

We can not convict people for what we think they might do.

  

Edited by Koo82, 2008-12-07 20:17:51.

[Koo82]

When did/will Mr. Somchai kill people???   

 Somchai__579_x_579_.jpg   124.69K   7 downloads

Edited by Koo82, 2008-12-07 20:25:31.

[LaoPo]

Koo82, on 2008-12-07 14:21:59, said:

When did/will Mr. Somchai kill people???   

Somchai_...9_x_579_.jpg

Propaganda Koo82...nothing else. For falsely accusing ruling PM's and Ministers in the west you could be arrested...but I know TIT.

They should make banners telling WHO paid them...WHO fed them....WHO supplied drinks....

LaoPo

[permanent_disorder]

SINGING IN THE CROWD
Bangkok Post 07.12.2008

Kelly Newton-Wordsworth loves the King passionately, sings at PAD rallies, prays a lot, is not politically motivated and doesn't like to say "whatever!"

Voranai Vanijaka  

People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) rallies are always a happening event. They're filled with an extensive selection of delicious foods and entertaining performances, not to mention shootings, bomb explosions, knife attacks and, of late, airport hijackings. Among the array of exciting activities, there is one special performance that may have raised a few eyebrows. On June 6, at Government House on Ratchadamnoen Nok Avenue, the sea of yellow shirts witnessed the first PAD performance of a blonde Australian lady singing (in English) her own composition, Long Live the King of Thailand.
Her name is Kelly Newton-Wordsworth, singer, farmer and green activist from Western Australia, aged ... well, she practises (in her own words) "the philosophy of agelessness".
June 6 marked the first of many performances by Ms Newton-Wordsworth for the PAD. She also has another song she's proud of, There must be Peace in Thailand. Both songs were released by her own Australian production company, Newtone Productions.
It begs the question then, what is an Aussie who has only been in the kingdom since March last year (before that, she has just "passed through" a few times), doing involving herself in local political unrest? You may be surprised (or not) at her answers.
Is she in agreement with the PAD that the People Power party-led government should not attempt to change the constitution?
"My singing isn't a political thing ... the constitution is for the Thai people. It's your country!" said the recording artist and environmentalist, who has performed at concerts and green festivals all over the world.
If the constitution isn't the issue, is it Thailand's embattled former premier Thaksin Shinawatra? "Well, I don't know him ... I only know what I read ... what I've been told ... so I don't know what to say about him. I've not watched television for many years. I've never seen a video of Thaksin, never seen any footage of him," she said, adding that she has no political affiliations.
If she has no opinion on the constitution or Thaksin, why then is she a part of the biggest political and social upheaval in Thailand in over a decade?
"I'm a foreigner ... I may not understand many things ... but I've learned many things. Everyone has their own mind, their own opinion ... things happen because people don't understand. When I came to the PAD, I started to think and learn ..."
Ms Newton-Wordsworth said she once slept in the grounds of Australia's Parliament House to protest (successfully) against forest encroachment.
What has she learned? "I've seen something in the PAD that I have never seen anywhere else in the world ... thousands of people in a place for almost six months ... as far as I know, this is the longest protest of its kind in the world ..."
Is patience the valuable lesson here? Well, there's more to it than that. "They are standing up for what they believe in ... and it seems to be they love the King ... I mean, they're all wearing yellow for the King!" said Ms Newton-Wordsworth, who dislikes "Western cynicism" and the "whatever" culture championed by Western teens.
"You know how they go 'whatever' at everything?" she said, making the quote gesture, but quickly adding that, "Most people in the world are very good people".
Ms Newton-Wordsworth also said she has received emails from Thai people all over the world thanking her for her contributions and her love for the King.
The singer, who's currently searching for a record deal in Thailand, explains how she first became involved with the PAD through a Thai friend who produced her song, Long Live the King of Thailand.
"How I started? A friend of mine said people were saying negative things about the King ... so I came to sing Long Live the King of Thailand."
The story of Ms Newton-Wordsworth and the King of Thailand goes like this: She first found out about the King from an in-flight documentary on a Thai Airways International flight from Western Australia, and in her own words: "I knew nothing about him ... but I knew when I saw his face ... the way he held the hands of the people ... I had tears flowing down my face ... this was the first time I really knew about King Bhumibol.
"I became involved because I love the King. I love his philosophy and thoughts ... his farming [agricultural projects] ... many of the things he talks about, I understand," she said.
Ms Newton-Wordsworth has been a bio-dynamic farmer for over 20 years and won the Australian Broadcasting Corporation's Rural Woman of the Year Award for the Great Southern region of Western Australia for her work in the field of sustainable agriculture. Currently, her husband William manages the farm, while her two youngest children, Vincent, 15, and Grace, 12, are in school. Kelly also has an older daughter, Tara, 20.
"I've never known of a leader, a king, a member of the royal family ... spending so much time, dedicated to finding solutions ... to make any difference he can for the lives of the Thai people," Ms Newton-Wordsworth said, comparing His Majesty with leaders elsewhere.
With her love of peace and the King, does she then condone PAD violence and its storming, on the night of Nov 25, of Suvarnabhumi airport?
"I live my life through prayer ... with my family. It might sound strange ... when we pray about things ... if it comes to us that I [should] sing ... then I sing. I've experienced many miracles in my life. I am a Christian."
But (again), does she condone the violence? After a moment's thought, she explained: "Sometimes people feel they've just had enough and do things they don't normally do ... like when I slept on the grounds of the [Australian] parliament." Although she insisted there should be no violence, saying that: "People of all religions should pray for peace in Thailand ... I just want to sing and pray."
Would she sing for the United Front of Democracy Against Dictatorship (UDD)? "I'd have to pray about it ... if it comes in prayer ... yes. I would give whatever God wants me to give."

http://www.bangkokpo...008_brun001.php




___________________________________________________________________________
note: long text to read, i know. but that australian woman is a "funny".
author Voranai Vanijaka has also a mission, to prove that the falang can not understand thai politics. remember the patpong ping pong balldemocracy text? but is it here the case? is there intended irony inside? or did Voranai finally found the falang who can understand? ultramarin Yellow and in a lives in a bizarre dreamworld like him.

[jdinasia]

Ulysses G., on 2008-12-06 19:27:30, said:

permanent_disorder, on 2008-12-06 19:07:51, said:

As for Thaksin. PAD followers do not just hate his actions but deeply abhor the man, his cronies and proxies including Somchai Wongsawat. Thaksin to them is like Satan, and must be destroyed. It's thus a zero-sum game in their view and no price is too high. Never mind the Thai economy is now reeling from the shutting down of two airports, their prophet claims they would rather die than allow the current regime and Thaksin to cling to power.
Sondhi himself told the PM to first resign, then they would negotiate. But what is left to negotiate? Such a remark reflects how out of touch the PAD leader has become.

This is the same thing that I find with the farang PAD apologists on Thai Visa and out on the street. They hate Thaksin so much that any price is worth paying to get rid of him, but if you pin them down, they will admit that he has never done anything that is all that evil (many will even admit that they think killing all the drug dealers might have improved the country), but that they are afraid that he will do something in the future. I'm sorry, but this is not a science fiction film. We can not convict people for what we think they might do.  

LOL,

Thaksin apologists think that 2600+ extra-judicial murders (many of them being murders of innocent people), Tak Bai,
selling off national interests, profiteering etc are not issues

[Ulysses G.]

That is pretty much business as usual in this part of the world and most Thais are glad he killed the drug dealers.
Why the obsession with Thaksin?  

[mc2]

permanent_disorder, on 2008-12-06 19:07:51, said:

Is Sondhi's PAD now a brainwashed political cult?
By Pravit Rojanaphruk
The Nation
Published on December 5, 2008


So the prophet said it over the weekend: "If by dying the country will improve, let death visit us today. It's better than being alive otherwise".

That statement from him is insane. "Let us visit death today". Another jonestown cult leader of paranoia and hysteria.
If Sondhi didnt get what he wanted he would probably make his zombies drink punch in a final protest.

Sondhi should take his zombies in the middle of Issan and make a new community, separate from the normal Thais where he cant bother us. He could call the place "SondhiTown" .
Either that or make a political party and shutup.

[permanent_disorder]

jdinasia, on 2008-12-08 13:52:26, said:

LOL,

Thaksin apologists think that 2600+ extra-judicial murders (many of them being murders of innocent people), Tak Bai,
selling off national interests, profiteering etc are not issues

read again, it's about ' how out of touch the PAD'  are and willing to pay any price in their hate
just scroll little bit up to Post #101  Thai court rewards criminality and you will find those murder crimes mentioned and pointed out.
these crimes happen during a time moralists like sondhi and chamlong have been best buddies of thaksin. that was not an issue for them.
if that all is just "LOL" for you, it looks like you don't take it to serious neither.  

find excuses for murder and manslaughter and other ugly violence or denying that such things happen, PAD apology, is the main purpose of all your unsubstantial 2 liner "contribution" to the forum.
why you don't take your "LOL" and go to a sauna and beer bar forum and flame people there?

"selling of national interests", that is just stupid nazi propaganda, you can discuss that here: in PAD propaganda thaksin is the the money jew. "profiteering" is the same nazi BS.