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[TerryLH]

"As far as work permit being ask for by immigration we also don't know the answer to that."

I think that's been answered in the last couple of posts.
It's on the list of requirements given to me by imm for documents needed to get a non O, if you are working. If you aren't, obviously it's not required.

[rishi]

Gumballl, on 2008-09-30 09:11:18, said:

Is it possible to not work, yet pay tax on 40K baht (and get receipt), and still qualify for the 12-month extension of stay? Basically, from Thailand's perspective, they probably could care less if I work... what they really want at the end of the day is tax revenue. Is this legal? A loophole?

It would be of no surprise if there has been at least one example of someone who has got a 1-year extension on some immigration office somewhere in Thailand based on only that - so (academically spoken) the short answer would probably be, yes ... In real life, however, the more interesting question is how lucky do you feel?

Your assumption of the importance of tax revenue in this context is basically wrong - the immigration officers down at your local office couldn't care less about how much tax you are paying - that's not their department. Their objective is to ascertain that your presence in Thailand is perfectly legal - at least regarding their own regulations. Although proper tax-documentation play s a major role in regarding wether you meet income requirements they're happy to accept a receipt for zero tax revenue as long as the supporting paper works show that gross income meets the requirements.

As for proper documentation of Thai based income one should be very prepared that not only are the docs explicitly mentioned in the policeorder required but
also documentation "hidden" in the circumstance that any immigration officer is in his perfect right to request whatever documentation he might deem necessary to establish that your actual situation meets requirements. Its all local and individual to which extent this or that office® may ask for additional documentation.

I've recently got my fourth non-0 spouse dependent extension - the last 3 have been on grounds of Thai salaries of 20,000 for each partee in this marriage. At the first extension of the 3, I brought along only tax receipts PND 1 (employer's withheld tax reports) and workpermit together with the general docs for being a married couple - everything mentioned in the police order for my situation, actually. They requested copies of bankbook, bank's balance doc (for both Thai wife and I). Employers company registration, employers list of shareholders, employers list of objectives, employment contracts for both wife and I stating our salaries... Had no problem producing all this so don't know if extension would have been refused otherwise.

Second year I brought it all along, which they accepted. Third year they accepted everything except the bank account documentation - not required any more, they said. This all happened in Chiang Mai which is generally known to be quite reasonable, but obviously do take documentation seriously.

Edited by rishi, 2008-10-02 11:59:56.

[beammeup]

What about someone who works offshore but spends 183 or more days in Thailand? He would be required to pay tax but wouldnt need a work permit.

[Maestro]

He would use the embassy letter certifying his foreign-earned income to apply for his extension of stay, not Thai tax receipts.

He would have to pay tax in Thailand on his foreign income only if he insisted very hard and even then he might have difficulty obtaining permission to do so.
--
Maestro

[opalhort]

Hope there is a tax expert here who can clarify things, but this is my understanding:

Income inside Thailand!

If you have income from employment (salary) only, you will file the tax form PNgD91 every year and submit it to Imm as evidence --> Imm will want to see a workpermit

If you have income from investment, renting out a condo etc., you'll have to declare this income on the tax form PNgD90 every year (and PNgD94 mid-year). --> Imm won't ask for a workpermit.

The easiest way for people with no real income would be the PNgD90/94 route as far as Imm is concerned, but beware of the Revenue department!

My wife is filing the 90/94 forms because our company leases land from her and the revenue department has audited her personal finances twice over the past five years!

opalhort

[ubonjoe]

Thats why in sevral posts I said something like. Hire a qualified professional to assit.
I can read the info on the Revenue website and that is all. Not an expert.

Edited by ubonjoe, 2008-10-03 14:43:45.

[rishi]

ubonjoe, on 2008-10-03 14:43:06, said:

Thats why in sevral posts I said something like. Hire a qualified professional to assit....

... and not just a professional, but a professional who is familiar with "preferences" at particularly THAT office, you'll be visiting ... (money can be saved, though, if you know someone in a SIMILAR situation as yours and who've RECENTLY visited THAT particular office - and the advice given by local "amateurs" isn't unlikely to be even more useful, than advices given by Bangkok based professionals contributing to TV.

[astral]

Why not walk down to your local tax office and apply for a tax id,
you will need your passport.

Tell them you have an income of the foreign currency equivalent of 40K baht
and ask how much tax you have to pay.

IME they will be only too happy to help you.

[phaethon]

Question: Do you need a work permit to do work or to be employed?

If it's the former then you could pass money to your wife who would then employ you TO DO NOTHING. Pay tax on the income received for NOT working in Thailand

[rishi]

phaethon, on 2008-10-04 02:19:11, said:

Question: Do you need a work permit to do work or to be employed?

If it's the former then you could pass money to your wife who would then employ you TO DO NOTHING. Pay tax on the income received for NOT working in Thailand

Actually, your wife could employ you in her role as a Thai citizen, provided she fulfills some certain requirements regarding previous tax-records. There were a whole bunch of threads regarding this issue some 1 1/2 to 2 1/2 year ago which included a lot of contributions from some Bangkok based professional who unfortunately isn't contributing as much to this board as he previously did. However, lots of gold down in the TV-vaults to be discovered by whomever can be bothered to investigate

[ubonjoe]

rishi, on 2008-10-04 00:57:52, said:

ubonjoe, on 2008-10-03 14:43:06, said:

Thats why in sevral posts I said something like. Hire a qualified professional to assit....

... and not just a professional, but a professional who is familiar with "preferences" at particularly THAT office, you'll be visiting ... (money can be saved, though, if you know someone in a SIMILAR situation as yours and who've RECENTLY visited THAT particular office - and the advice given by local "amateurs" isn't unlikely to be even more useful, than advices given by Bangkok based professionals contributing to TV.

I have written in other posts I would go to a professional (accountant most likely) that deals with Thai's (much less expensive I am sure). Not one that deals exclusively with farangs. That would be one from the area where you live. I wouldn't go looking for a professional in Bangkok since I live in Ubon.

[beammeup]

Maestro, on 2008-10-02 20:47:56, said:

He would use the embassy letter certifying his foreign-earned income to apply for his extension of stay, not Thai tax receipts.

He would have to pay tax in Thailand on his foreign income only if he insisted very hard and even then he might have difficulty obtaining permission to do so.
--
Maestro

The embassy letter is not an option as he worked in a third country and doesnt pay tax in his home country (he is a non resident in his home country). Is there another way of proving foreign income?

[manjara]

beammeup, on 2008-10-02 09:25:11, said:

What about someone who works offshore but spends 183 or more days in Thailand? He would be required to pay tax but wouldnt need a work permit.

I work offshore, but basically live in Thailand. I take some of the offshore money in through my Thai company, which pays me a salary and also pays my wife and some of her family as employees. I pay tax in Thailand on my wages, my wife on hers etc.
I don't do it in the most tax efficient way, but that's just my own choice (or laziness). My view is if I pay myself a reasonable amount then the Thai authorities will be less likely to start asking questions, so between me and my wife + family, I pay around 240k a month in salaries (and around 35k in tax and social for that). There's also the advantage that if you pay the wife a decent amount, then they can get loans based on their salary, though it's not that easy as the banks don't recognise the account as a payroll account unless it uses a normal Payroll mechanism which is not available to small companies (you have to have 50 employees or more at Standard Chartered).
Having the business also means that you can expense some things, like flights, company car, computer equipment and phone bills (though don't get me started on the hoops you have to jump through to get a company phone account! - you can't just expense your personal one)

[ubonjoe]

beammeup, on 2008-10-04 12:42:09, said:

Maestro, on 2008-10-02 20:47:56, said:

He would use the embassy letter certifying his foreign-earned income to apply for his extension of stay, not Thai tax receipts.
He would have to pay tax in Thailand on his foreign income only if he insisted very hard and even then he might have difficulty obtaining permission to do so.
--
Maestro

The embassy letter is not an option as he worked in a third country and doesnt pay tax in his home country (he is a non resident in his home country). Is there another way of proving foreign income?

Depends on what country they are from. Some want no proof and you swear that what you put on an affidavit is correct. Others just want to see some form of income. Others are a pain in the a**.to get.
Paying tax is an option if you can't do it any other way. This started for many after they took out the money in the bank option. Another reason for paying taxes is for a future PR application.

[Mario2008]

Let him contact his embassy. My own embassy will certifies income from other countries, provided the evidence about the income is in English.
If not maybe he can either have it translated or certified by the embassy of the country where he is geting income from.

[astral]

beammeup, on 2008-10-04 12:42:09, said:

The embassy letter is not an option as he worked in a third country and doesnt pay tax in his home country (he is a non resident in his home country). Is there another way of proving foreign income?

I don't follow that statement.

Investment income can be authenticated by suitable documentation from the investment fund.
Work income can be authenticated by documentation from the company.

There is no requirement that the income arises in your home country,
or that tax has already been paid.

Just present the documents to your Embassy.

I only foresee a problem if the income is from illegal activities.

[Fidelius]

Fidelius, on 2008-09-30 23:27:55, said:

Can a foreigner also get tax receipts on a fictitious income in Thailand?

After reading later posts I think the answer is this:

1. A foreigner can get a tax ID from the tax office, without showing a work permit.

2. He can pay taxes to the tax office on a fictitious income in Thailand and get tax receipts, without showing a work permit.

3. He cannot get an extension of stay from the immigration office with the tax receipts alone. The immigration office wants to see a work permit.

[Mario2008]

If you extend your stay based on employment. Immigration doesn't need to see your WP for an extension of stay based on marriage or retirement.

[digitalchromakey]

Mario2008, on 2008-10-04 20:40:44, said:

If you extend your stay based on employment. Immigration doesn't need to see your WP for an extension of stay based on marriage or retirement.

Yes they do.

[opalhort]

Mario2008, on 2008-10-04 20:40:44, said:

If you extend your stay based on employment. Immigration doesn't need to see your WP for an extension of stay based on marriage or retirement.

If your income is from within Thailand, Imm want to see details about the source! Usually a WP and tax receipts!
regardless of type of visa.

opalhort

[Mario2008]

Sounds indeed logical that they would want to see that.

[ubonjoe]

Income from within the country doesn't have to be income from working. It can be from investment, property rent, family business (IE: mom&pop shop) etc. etc.
A tax receipt can also be gotten for income from outside of the country which unless its a pension you should pay taxes on anyway if you are in the country for more than 180 days of the year.
You can also show all the income for your wife if need be.

Edited by ubonjoe, 2008-10-04 21:06:25.

[beano2274]

I recently went to the Immigration office for a Non O based on Marriage, the paperwork was correct, however I only have a part time job, and pay taxes on this, but did not have the tax receipts. It was annoying sitting there for around 5 hours, then being told no, so the next day I got an extension of 60days. We asked about using my wife's income and making it up to 40,000 baht, as I have no WP, but the girls at Immigration said if we used this it would be investigated, they have apparently found loads of Indians doing the same thing. We asked about having a job outside of Thailand but working from home, this seemed to be okay, just require a letter from the Company and also from the Embassy, but seems to be no problem from the Embassy about this letter.
I will however, be working part time in Thailand, and will get tax receipts from Thailand as well, as the more the merrier seems to be the thing.
On the same day at Immigration there were many people with paperwork based on Marriage, and many were walking away looking totally p****d off. And returning the next day as well.
Think best idea for most is get a letter from company, then a letter from the Embassy, in my case not the same letter as that from the company abroad, as not want the Embassy to check up on it, get tax receipts then go to the Immigration office

[ubonjoe]

beano2274, on 2008-10-05 09:08:41, said:

I recently went to the Immigration office for a Non O based on Marriage, the paperwork was correct, however I only have a part time job, and pay taxes on this, but did not have the tax receipts. It was annoying sitting there for around 5 hours, then being told no, so the next day I got an extension of 60days.

Useful information in your post.
Even if you have all the required documents it does not matter if you can't show the income requirement. Forget anything other than a letter from embassy/consulate or 3 months of tax receipts as proof of income or a combination of the two. Don't forget it can be wife's income also.
You didn't say what immigration office you were at but I am guessing it was Bangkok. Five hours waiting to be told no is not good. Just be glad they don't take your money and then say no. I think a lot of people are under the impression that Bangkok is the only place to apply. If you have an immigration office near your residence use that one.
I am glad that I can go to a nice quite and helpfull immigration office here in Ubon. They even made the copies for the ones we were short.
Hope you have better luck the next time when your 60 days are almost over.

[DNPBC0]

Recently I sent this to the Thai Embassy in New Zealand:
"In applying for the one year extension of stay with my wife, I wonder whether the visa regulations set out the Order of the Royal Thai Police Headquarters No. 606/2549 still apply. I am informed that this order was made in 2006. According to case 7.17 of the order under point (6) it says:
"In the case of an alien married to a Thai woman, any party or both must have a total income of not less than Baht 40,000 per month, except for aliens who entered the Kingdom before this Order came into force and granted a permit to stay in the Kingdom. If the alien does not have the minimum income above, he shall have an account deposit in Thailand in the name of either party or both of not less than Baht 400,000. Proof of account deposit for the previous 3 months is required."
Please would you confirm that my understanding of the visa application process is correct and whether the particular requirement regarding a bank account deposit of not less than Baht 400,000 could be applied in my case.
Their reply was:
"So for we have not been informed / instructed of any change regarding the regulation."
I am therefore assuming that 'the money-in-bank-account' route to a one-year extension still applies.