Prev Page 2 of 3 1 2 3 Next You cannot reply to this topic Go to first unread post 64 replies to this topic

[sbk]

Off topic and inflammatory remarks have been deleted. Lets keep this civil and within the bounds of the topic without straying to flame other members, thanks.

[koheesti]

highdiver, on 2008-10-07 08:07:31, said:

for those of you who don't read Thai. and its a pity... the letter does not reference a Marina but a sport or a support pier. not really clear what it is but definitely it does not say Marina.
this is a government project and as such required by law to take steps for it to be approved. there are 3 companies listed as having made some preliminary design to this project.
this is an invitation to the public sent out to examine the option of doing such a pier (hopefully marina) and to study the public local reaction to such a project.
spoke with the marine police chief last night and he says that this meeting is just a first step. to be followed by a proper environment impact study, design, costing, contractor bidding, and budgeting. and that the normal time frame for this based on other such projects is 4-5 years. providing all those steps are completed and approved

I would welcome a marina or "sport pier". The road out to Big B is one of the worst on the island after a lot of rain and that small lagoon is full of garbage.

Edited by koheesti, 2008-10-11 11:21:38.

[lazeeboy]

if it brings more money to the lsland ,i say bring it on ,this is an island after all and needs a marina

[womble]

A marina in Bangrak would ofcourse need a lot of dredging and this would have enviromental impact but it is actually the best place for it for a number of reasons, one of which would be that it may infact have less enviromental impact than many think, considerably less than most other areas around the island.

The area to the left of the temple where the seatran pier is a great natural harbour. It is however very shallow so there will need to be much dredging, I think we all remember the pier being unusable for many months after completion due to it being too shallow. Anyway around this particular area there is little coral unlike the area to the right of the temple. The seabed is very muddy and certainly also already very dirty and polluted from all the fishing boats by the market. Looking at the filth there is disgusting, remeber for many coming for KPG or Tao this is the first view of the island. Nice!

A marina in this area would be much better than in the south where it is far less spoilt and there is also much more coral. Bang Rak is one of few areas on the island where there is little coral. The muddy bottom would also make dredging much easier as taking away mud is much easier than carving away at coral.

I think samui will certainly one day see a marina. It is possible that if done in the right way it could actually benefit marine species. The seabed in the area at present is pretty barren, clarity of water is also some of the worst on the island, due to the silt. when building a marina there will be protective arms built around the sides, these often use boulders and rock which can provide great habitat for all types of fish, crustaceans and many other species of marine life. It could become an artificial reef. Around the world many pleasure fisherman benefit from harbours and marinas, the enviroment here doesn't suit all species, but some thrive, eg mullet, crabs, shrimp.

Samui needs a marina, and it is inevitable that one will be built sooner or later, personally I think bang rak is by far the best location, it is close to the marine park where the KPG and Koh tao the two other populated islands that boat owners may wish to visit. Also if a marina is to be built I think it's better built in an area that is already pretty degraded ecologicallly speaking than in somewhere that is more pristine (not that there is anywhere even close to pristine on the island).

[bbcsamui]

There were about 5 farangs and 80 Thais at the meeting.

The location is shown below. I will scan the rest of the documents etc and have them available later.



The Estimated cost is THB644.5 million.
The Breakwater is situated where the existing dead reef is.
I am not sure I am totally happy with it being right there in front of my house and restaurant - especially during the construction. But I am fully in favour of a marina on Samui and if this is the only option, then I support it.
More information to come...

[koheesti]

bbcsamui, on 2008-10-16 12:22:17, said:

I am not sure I am totally happy with it being right there in front of my house and restaurant - especially during the construction. But I am fully in favour of a marina on Samui and if this is the only option, then I support it.
More information to come...

Dude, you should be thrilled beyond belief. The boon to business will more than make up for any noise you'll have to deal with. Besides, you're used to dirty, noisy neighbors already.

[Tony121]

looks impressive did they say what kind of facilities it would have ?

[bbcsamui]

Tony121, on 2008-10-16 17:02:59, said:

looks impressive did they say what kind of facilities it would have ?

Yes. We will get the documents translated but some of the things I remember are ...

38 x 12 metre berths
34 x 16 metre
30 x 20 metre
9 x 30 metre

A single fuelling station
A ramp
A crane
A "clubhouse"
Car parking
Water and electricity to the berths

There was no real mention of the things like repair facilities, chandlery etc but I believe the Government thinks they can be commercially offered elsewhere / nearby.

I'll have the documents available on a website tomorrow: Big Buddha Marina

I will have no advertising on it, just information and photos and all comments etc should continue here on this forum.

[Gatorade]

bbcsamui, on 2008-10-16 12:22:17, said:

There were about 5 farangs and 80 Thais at the meeting.

The location is shown below. I will scan the rest of the documents etc and have them available later.



The Estimated cost is THB644.5 million.
The Breakwater is situated where the existing dead reef is.
I am not sure I am totally happy with it being right there in front of my house and restaurant - especially during the construction. But I am fully in favour of a marina on Samui and if this is the only option, then I support it.
More information to come...

Many thanks for the info. Sorry I couldn't make it. The idea of opening up the Causeway again for water flow is excellent and
might even help to regenerate the reef.
Did you get the impression that this would be the only site that the Govt. Would consider?
Cheers
Gator

[bbcsamui]

Gatorade, on 2008-10-17 14:37:47, said:

Did you get the impression that this would be the only site that the Govt. Would consider?

No they have considered 5 different locations and this is the one they are focusing on at the moment.

The five locations are shown in the full document on the website. Some of the tables in the document outline the pros and cons and once we get it translated it might be clearer. Plus I am trying to get a copy of the presentations.

The others were not chosen because of a number of factors including easy access for facilities (ie Koh Som might be good for a marina, but not good access), significant environmental damage (the mangroves in Phan Kah), local Obections (Tong Krut), lack of government owned land next to it ... etc.

The Government owns the Koh Fan Island which Big Buddha sits on, so feel they can have more say on what goes next to it. This design might actualy enhance the environment, by getting the flow back (but that could also be done without building a full scale marina...). I actually got the feeling this is the last chance for them as they have been working on it for at least 6 years that I know about. If this does not get through then I am not sure what they can do.

If designed and built well it should be great for all boaties on Samui and especially some of the locals who have or want small boats and worry about the current facilities and services. I even hear of instances where boats end up on the beach through lack of adequate moorings and get rammed about and scratched on the existing jetties as they are not built appropriately. Hopefully that can change (but dont expect it in the near future .. it will take time).

[Gatorade]

bbcsamui, on 2008-10-17 15:01:13, said:

Gatorade, on 2008-10-17 14:37:47, said:

Did you get the impression that this would be the only site that the Govt. Would consider?

No they have considered 5 different locations and this is the one they are focusing on at the moment.

The five locations are shown in the full document on the website. Some of the tables in the document outline the pros and cons and once we get it translated it might be clearer. Plus I am trying to get a copy of the presentations.

The others were not chosen because of a number of factors including easy access for facilities (ie Koh Som might be good for a marina, but not good access), significant environmental damage (the mangroves in Phan Kah), local Obections (Tong Krut), lack of government owned land next to it ... etc.

The Government owns the Koh Fan Island which Big Buddha sits on, so feel they can have more say on what goes next to it. This design might actualy enhance the environment, by getting the flow back (but that could also be done without building a full scale marina...). I actually got the feeling this is the last chance for them as they have been working on it for at least 6 years that I know about. If this does not get through then I am not sure what they can do.

If designed and built well it should be great for all boaties on Samui and especially some of the locals who have or want small boats and worry about the current facilities and services. I even hear of instances where boats end up on the beach through lack of adequate moorings and get rammed about and scratched on the existing jetties as they are not built appropriately. Hopefully that can change (but dont expect it in the near future .. it will take time).

Thanks for that. It looks hopeful at least!

[womble]

They must have slips and lifting facilities, if you can't repair the boat there it will be useless, at the moment you have to get a tow to the mainland......

I'd never have a boat with in-boards here for that reason. At present outboards are the only real option and they break down all the time! + they are fuel hungry.

[Rooo]

Will my 2 meter dinghie fit?

[Gatorade]

womble, on 2008-10-17 18:01:08, said:

They must have slips and lifting facilities, if you can't repair the boat there it will be useless, at the moment you have to get a tow to the mainland......

I'd never have a boat with in-boards here for that reason. At present outboards are the only real option and they break down all the time! + they are fuel hungry.

That's a bit negative, guess you must be running old 2 strokes. The modern 4 stroke outboards are fuel efficient and reliable. At least mine are, so far!
I don't see why a purpose designed Marina wouldn't have a slip and ancillary facilities.

[bbcsamui]

womble, on 2008-10-17 18:01:08, said:

They must have slips and lifting facilities,

This question was asked at the meeting and the reply was that they would have a slip and lifting facilities.

Please remember though. This is early planning days, and what is in the plans / drawings does not always get into the final construction. I built 2 identical houses once but they ended up with interior walls in different locations. When I asked about it they said it was too hot "over there" so they built the wall 2 metres to the left on one of the houses.

However we must be positive at these early stages. And with Pontoon design, they are much easier to rearrange later.

[bbcsamui]

I have put the full document on the site and also some photos. The majority of the photos were taken at low tide in July and show that there is a significant amount of sand to move out before anything can be done properly.
Big Buddha Marina possible site - photos

[koheesti]

bbcsamui, on 2008-10-18 09:23:06, said:

I have put the full document on the site and also some photos. The majority of the photos were taken at low tide in July and show that there is a significant amount of sand to move out before anything can be done properly.
Big Buddha Marina possible site - photos

I'm curious, after seeing your new website, what is your connection with the proposed Marina? Did you just register the domain name and are building it up (including a logo) hoping to sell it in the future if the marina is built? Not being critical, I think it's pretty clever if that's what you're doing.

[koheesti]

bbcsamui, on 2008-10-18 09:23:06, said:

I have put the full document on the site and also some photos. The majority of the photos were taken at low tide in July and show that there is a significant amount of sand to move out before anything can be done properly.
Big Buddha Marina possible site - photos

Wow, after looking at those pics it seems like a more feasible idea would be to turn it into a parking lot.

Where would they put all the earth they would need to dredge up?

Edited by koheesti, 2008-10-18 09:37:52.

[highdiver]

bbc
thanks for the info and the web site.
very interesting pictures and the proposal seems very professional.
\i can understand your happiness about this as it will put you right in the middle of the action.

I hope they can do.... we really do need a marina.

now there is only only that small matter of the budget...nearly 700 million. and its just an estimate..
the only way for this to happen is if they give it to some investor to do it. but they would not as marinas usually make money from the real estate around it then from the actual birthing.
As this is very preliminary and as the planing and approval and budgeting will take a few years. we can all continue to moor out on buoys and dream about the future marina

[bbcsamui]

koheesti, on 2008-10-18 09:35:02, said:

I'm curious, after seeing your new website, what is your connection with the proposed Marina? Did you just register the domain name and are building it up (including a logo) hoping to sell it in the future if the marina is built? Not being critical, I think it's pretty clever if that's what you're doing.

I have no connection to this particular proposal other than having 2 Thai children who own the plot of land next to where they are proposing it. I have also indicated that I would be interested to put my boat in the marina and also be able to assist them find proper consultants, builders and potentially investors. This is a Government sponsored program but they do see the issue of paying for it so are willing to commercialise it once the approvals have been given.

I did actually apply for my own marina in 2004 / 2005. I paid for a marina designer to come over from Europe and do some preliminary plans. I got the mayor to agree to it, the harbour board on side etc etc. Then the pier in Bangrak where Seatran currently goes from started so they refused my application as they thought it might compete. After it was built they turned it back as they wanted the Government marina in the south to be the first one on Samui. Now they are planning their own marina in nearly the same location as I had applied for. My plan had a lot more of the services included located on either large platforms over the water or through using some of the dredged sand to create some reclaimed land (all of this is legal and can be done environmentally friendly).

My view is if I objected to the Government marina I have no show of getting my own one done, so really have to support it and hope that it grows into a well designed, well built facility that is good for all.

Over the years I have registered some domain names, made some logos, taken some pictures... in anticipation that I might get to have a marina.

[highdiver]

the reason you were denied the permit is that by Samui town building code. private piers are forbidden in the north shores. light green zone.
they are allowed in the southern part light blue zone.
however and here is where things get complicated. the harbor department will not approve in the south.
So until they change the law. in the north shores including the location near BBC only government owned projects are allowed.
the government can after completing the project with governments funds can give it to be leased out by tender to the highest bidder.. like sea tran pier.

hopefully the change the law and allow investors to do it. the guys from phuket marina were looking into it a few years ago but they wanted land that can develop a huge realty and commercial project around the marina. as they could not find it they gave it up.

[bbcsamui]

highdiver, on 2008-10-18 20:13:33, said:

the reason you were denied the permit is that by Samui town building code. private piers are forbidden in the north shores. light green zone.
they are allowed in the southern part light blue zone.

Yes. But it is possible (subject to design approval etc) to build it and give it to Government and then rent it back from them for 30 years. Sounds complex but actually not too different to many instances elsewhere in the world.

There are instances where standalone marinas can make money. It is just that they probably have a lower return over a longer period.
For this marina to break even it needs at least THB 17,000 a month per berth, 365 days a year for 30 years. Not including any revenues from ancilliary services. ... or each berth is sold for an average of THB5.8 m for 30 year lease ... plus monthly fees. The berths for this particlar design are 12 metres or more. This sort of money for that size berth is not necessarily expensive - about 20% of the average European berth costs.

It is possible to exclusively sell / rent berths to groups such as a property developer in the vicinity, who then packages them with a villa. Sometimes people are just as happy to be 10 minutes from the marina on a hill with a better view, than actually located right on the marina. Maybe when all of the "fast-money" projects are finished, the marina will become attractive to developers.

[Rooo]

Well remember there was a marina being opened around Maenam as part of a development?They even had someone from the Royal family reside over the initial ground breaking.Well I drive past their old office & it has a for rent sign on it now.Anyone knows what became of them?

[stonybonytony]

All the wooden piers in Bangrak are private though - I guess they don't have planning problems as they are not concrete?

I live in Koh Phangan, and when I come over to Samui it would be nice if I could drop people off on the end of one of these piers, the last one I was using the chap who owned it ended up asking for 1,000 baht every time I use it. I've asked around and not been able to find anyone who will let me use one of these piers for free - including the Seatran one which the government paid for.

Does everyone have the same experience, or have I just missed the friendly owner who is willing to let a cheapskate use his pier for free (or for 100 baht or something more reasonable)?

Sorry if I'm going off topic.

[limbos]

Stony,

Am I missing something here? These wooden pier owners invested in something and ask for a mooring fee, what's wrong with that? Ever noticed that most (ir)regular longtails or speedboats beach their boats? Must be a reason for it.