[KevinHunt]

I've heard stories of Copyright Police(?) raiding bars on Loi Kroh and fining them for not having a music copyright licence. Any personal experience of this?



Just found this Thai Visa link


http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Music-Licenc...nt-t146787.html


And link to licence fees in English/Thai


http://www.1stopmusic.com/tariff.html

This post has been edited by Tywais: 2008-10-12 13:11

[ThaiPauly]

When we had our restaurant we got a visit from the"Grammy" police within the first week of us taking over the place.


Their authoristation was by way of a lopsided photocopy of a notice regarding payment.

My missus thought that it looked dodgy and said She wanted to contact her Lawyer, asked them to leave their phone number.

They said it did not matter they would come back in a couple of weeks.....they never did.


We never got a visit from anyone else....their may be real PRS or Grammy agents out there.....if they come to you check them out before you pay anything.....I have heard that real ones do exsist.

[highonthai]

I heard the same thing about this copyright fine, thought it was just GRAMMY and for karaoke. As far as I see it, how could you be fined for infringment if you have bought the cd and not charging customers to hear it. At my place we have western music, ubc music channels, ubc video channels, thai cd's.
Thai staff has for sometime not played any grammy muisc.
I never have been approached to pay a fine or to buy a licsence for music. Have all the appropriate licsences for the ampour office, and to my surprise after opening was checked by a van full of suits to see everything was correct.
Still, I'd like to know more about this.

[Loaded]

Amazing Thailand: Copyright police raiding bars in the land of Right to Copy. Every street has a shop full of photocopiers copying copyrighted books all day. Kad Suan Kaew, Pantip Plaza, Night Bazaar all allow the selling of bootlegged DVDs. want a copy rollex with guarantee - no problem. Off on a tangent but there must be literally millions of fake baht notes in circulation and nobody checks... I've got an idea

[KevinHunt]

highonthai, on 2008-10-12 09:36:47, said:

I heard the same thing about this copyright fine, thought it was just GRAMMY and for karaoke. As far as I see it, how could you be fined for infringment if you have bought the cd and not charging customers to hear it. At my place we have western music, ubc music channels, ubc video channels, thai cd's.
Thai staff has for sometime not played any grammy muisc.
I never have been approached to pay a fine or to buy a licsence for music. Have all the appropriate licsences for the ampour office, and to my surprise after opening was checked by a van full of suits to see everything was correct.
Still, I'd like to know more about this.

Check the links. If you are playing music in public you must have a licence - that applies to most countries in the world. In UK a friend was asked to pay for a licence because one of the staff was listening to his radio whilst working! He got away with it but generally speaking anyone playing music as entertainment or promotion must pay copyright fees.


I heard that a bar on Loi Kroh paid 50,000 baht fine, 10,000 to save the wife from a night in a cell and 5,000 for a licence. 65,000 total!!

This should be a big concern to anyone owning a bar/restaurant where music is played.

Sorry - I just tested the links and for some reason they don't take you to the relevant site - they just go to Thai Visa main page.
You could just type them in anyway - the Pattaya page is informative about the 'copyright police' and the 1stopmusic link tells you about the tarrifs - 200 baht/seat for music pubs / bars and 100 per seat for restaurant.

This post has been edited by KevinHUNT: 2008-10-12 12:55

[ThaiPauly]

KevinHUNT, on 2008-10-12 12:46:29, said:

I heard that a bar on Loi Kroh paid 50,000 baht fine, 10,000 to save the wife from a night in a cell and 5,000 for a licence. 65,000 total!!

This should be a big concern to anyone owning a bar/restaurant where music is played.

Indeed, that sort of money could wipe out 6 months profit for some of the smaller establishments.

Time to bring back "The Pub Singer"

[KevinHunt]

ThaiPauly, on 2008-10-12 12:50:02, said:

KevinHUNT, on 2008-10-12 12:46:29, said:

I heard that a bar on Loi Kroh paid 50,000 baht fine, 10,000 to save the wife from a night in a cell and 5,000 for a licence. 65,000 total!!

This should be a big concern to anyone owning a bar/restaurant where music is played.

Indeed, that sort of money could wipe out 6 months profit for some of the smaller establishments.

Time to bring back "The Pub Singer"

I think you'd still be liable - public performance fees.


At this rate you may not even be able to 'whistle while you work' a la The 7 Dwarfs.

Anyone know why my links don't work - keep it clean please.

[Tywais]

KevinHUNT, on 2008-10-12 13:00:20, said:

Anyone know why my links don't work - keep it clean please.

I fixed the links. Don't know why, but the previous ones had some strange meta-tags in it.

[Paagai]

I had some direct experience of this a few months ago when they raided a bar/restaurant where I was eating and confiscated the sound system! Apparently cost 25,000 Baht for the fine, the owner was pretty upset about it, and this was a small local Thai place, not a Farang bar at all.

What amused me was the police were apparently only interested in Thai music, and didn't care if the bar played Farang songs. Evidently its fine to rip off Farang music but Thai performers must get their royalties (though I bet most of the money collected in this way never gets to the actual Artist!). They also checked for copy CDs etc; this place was in particular trouble as the music was MP3s on a computer

Another friend told me he was forced to close his bar a couple of years back for the same problem as they couldn't pay the 20,000 Baht fine - and this bar was a student place run by a group of students so you can imagine how much money they had. I understood the basic licence was around 3000++ Baht per year but don't know if this is accurate.

[KevinHunt]

Paagai, on 2008-10-12 14:03:24, said:

I had some direct experience of this a few months ago when they raided a bar/restaurant where I was eating and confiscated the sound system! Apparently cost 25,000 Baht for the fine, the owner was pretty upset about it, and this was a small local Thai place, not a Farang bar at all.

What amused me was the police were apparently only interested in Thai music, and didn't care if the bar played Farang songs. Evidently its fine to rip off Farang music but Thai performers must get their royalties (though I bet most of the money collected in this way never gets to the actual Artist!). They also checked for copy CDs etc; this place was in particular trouble as the music was MP3s on a computer

Another friend told me he was forced to close his bar a couple of years back for the same problem as they couldn't pay the 20,000 Baht fine - and this bar was a student place run by a group of students so you can imagine how much money they had. I understood the basic licence was around 3000++ Baht per year but don't know if this is accurate.

The link to 1stopmusic gives you the rates in Thai and English.

[Greenside]

I heard from a friend who's wife owned an internet cafe that they got shaken down for a hefty fine for having "copied" Thai music on one of the computers in her shop about a year ago. It was their habit to clear down the publicly accessed parts of the hard drives frequently to get rid of the garbage that people leave and one day after they just had done this routine it seems that a couple of guys came in and dropped some files on a machine. They were followed in about an hour or two later by some "officials" from the copyright police along with some real coppers who confisated the computer and served them a summons. At first he thought he would have to drop someone a couple of grand but it ended up costing him nearer 25 if I recall. How real the officials were he never found out.

[Wandering]

Greenside, on 2008-10-12 22:08:39, said:

I heard from a friend who's wife owned an internet cafe that they got shaken down for a hefty fine for having "copied" Thai music on one of the computers in her shop about a year ago. It was their habit to clear down the publicly accessed parts of the hard drives frequently to get rid of the garbage that people leave and one day after they just had done this routine it seems that a couple of guys came in and dropped some files on a machine. They were followed in about an hour or two later by some "officials" from the copyright police along with some real coppers who confisated the computer and served them a summons. At first he thought he would have to drop someone a couple of grand but it ended up costing him nearer 25 if I recall. How real the officials were he never found out.

I've heard about this in CM as well. Some agency guys come in and download a whole bunch of MP3 Music. Soon after, official "copywrite police" (they are not police) escorted by real police come in and ask for a big fine.

[rishi]

Greenside, on 2008-10-12 22:08:39, said:

I heard from a friend who's wife owned an internet cafe that they got shaken down for a hefty fine for having "copied" Thai music on one of the computers in her shop about a year ago. It was their habit to clear down the publicly accessed parts of the hard drives frequently to get rid of the garbage that people leave and one day after they just had done this routine it seems that a couple of guys came in and dropped some files on a machine. They were followed in about an hour or two later by some "officials" from the copyright police along with some real coppers who confisated the computer and served them a summons. At first he thought he would have to drop someone a couple of grand but it ended up costing him nearer 25 if I recall. How real the officials were he never found out.

Funny how things get "moderated" as time goes by. As usual, the best gossip in town originates from TV:
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/What-s-Name-...on-t142566.html

[Greenside]

rishi, on 2008-10-13 00:49:51, said:

Greenside, on 2008-10-12 22:08:39, said:

I heard from a friend who's wife owned an internet cafe that they got shaken down for a hefty fine for having "copied" Thai music on one of the computers in her shop about a year ago. It was their habit to clear down the publicly accessed parts of the hard drives frequently to get rid of the garbage that people leave and one day after they just had done this routine it seems that a couple of guys came in and dropped some files on a machine. They were followed in about an hour or two later by some "officials" from the copyright police along with some real coppers who confisated the computer and served them a summons. At first he thought he would have to drop someone a couple of grand but it ended up costing him nearer 25 if I recall. How real the officials were he never found out.

Funny how things get "moderated" as time goes by. As usual, the best gossip in town originates from TV:
http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/What-s-Name-...on-t142566.html

Not sure I understand your comment but it was Wadsy who told me about the incident before he and his family returned to Oz.

[millwall_fan]

Thanks to Kevin for starting this thread. Sadly it hasn't stopped bars getting busted on Loi Kroh and last night they took half a dozen places in the Entertainment Plaza. The 'fines' are up to 50,000 + 5,000 for the 'licence'plus 10,000 as a 'present' to the police not to have your wife/girlfriend fingerprinted which they tell you will will leave her with criminal record and unable to leave Thailand.
It is a scam. The company RKT publishing only owns the rights to 65 tracks of music by half a dozen Thai bands singing in English. The 'licence'they make you buy only entitles you to play these 65 tracks. They appear authentic (and frightening unless you know what you are doing) because they have police support - you are taken to the police station as part of the proces and to pay the 'fine' RKT have been known to plant CD's containing their tracks in victims premesis.
We called the guys ay 1stopmusic.com who are leag and represent orgainisations like Britains Performing Rights Society. They told us they dont normally bother with small bars and restaurants under about 100 covers- it's simply too much trouble and they do not go round with the police and confiscate equipment under any circumstances. However when a group of us bar owners in Loi Kroh decided we wanted to get these licences to prevent this kind of problem in the future, they negotiated discounted rates for us. which were,we felt very reasonable. There are 2 types of licence one to play recorded music, the other to play music via a computer.
These licences are to play foreign music only -no Thai- which costs more. You do not need a licence to play music via teh UBC?Truevisions radio stations, as UBC?True already possess one. Please pass this info on to any bar owners you know, Thai or Farang - both have been targetted.
Another nasty little scam -which wouldn't work but for the boys in brown!

[KevinHunt]

millwall_fan, on 2008-10-15 09:39:56, said:

Thanks to Kevin for starting this thread. Sadly it hasn't stopped bars getting busted on Loi Kroh and last night they took half a dozen places in the Entertainment Plaza. The 'fines' are up to 50,000 + 5,000 for the 'licence'plus 10,000 as a 'present' to the police not to have your wife/girlfriend fingerprinted which they tell you will will leave her with criminal record and unable to leave Thailand.
It is a scam. The company RKT publishing only owns the rights to 65 tracks of music by half a dozen Thai bands singing in English. The 'licence'they make you buy only entitles you to play these 65 tracks. They appear authentic (and frightening unless you know what you are doing) because they have police support - you are taken to the police station as part of the proces and to pay the 'fine' RKT have been known to plant CD's containing their tracks in victims premesis.
We called the guys ay 1stopmusic.com who are leag and represent orgainisations like Britains Performing Rights Society. They told us they dont normally bother with small bars and restaurants under about 100 covers- it's simply too much trouble and they do not go round with the police and confiscate equipment under any circumstances. However when a group of us bar owners in Loi Kroh decided we wanted to get these licences to prevent this kind of problem in the future, they negotiated discounted rates for us. which were,we felt very reasonable. There are 2 types of licence one to play recorded music, the other to play music via a computer.
These licences are to play foreign music only -no Thai- which costs more. You do not need a licence to play music via teh UBC?Truevisions radio stations, as UBC?True already possess one. Please pass this info on to any bar owners you know, Thai or Farang - both have been targetted.
Another nasty little scam -which wouldn't work but for the boys in brown!

   A nice lady at RKT  publishing (www.rktpublishing -  tel 02-861-1655-8) said that although they have sales people in CHM they shouldn't be fining folk 50,000 baht, but they may offer to sell you a licence for the few Thai songs that they have copyrights to. I told her what was happening and she seemed surprised . I suggested that this was not good publicity for their company and she agreed. 


  Now that they have been made aware of this forum, maybe RKT would like to explain to us what this is all about?

  I will refuse to pay these people, ask for  a copy of their Thai ID and take a photo of all concerned and see what happens. They seem to make an excuse and leave when they come under any scrutiny.

  They seem to be preying on Farang owned bars. They may not even represent this company?

  Most of the Copyright scams concern Thai music so give them what they seem to want and don't play Thai music - it's too much hassle.

  

[Samuian]

millwall_fan, on 2008-10-15 09:39:56, said:

Thanks to Kevin for starting this thread. Sadly it hasn't stopped bars getting busted on Loi Kroh and last night they took half a dozen places in the Entertainment Plaza. The 'fines' are up to 50,000 + 5,000 for the 'licence'plus 10,000 as a 'present' to the police not to have your wife/girlfriend fingerprinted which they tell you will will leave her with criminal record and unable to leave Thailand.
It is a scam. The company RKT publishing only owns the rights to 65 tracks of music by half a dozen Thai bands singing in English. The 'licence'they make you buy only entitles you to play these 65 tracks. They appear authentic (and frightening unless you know what you are doing) because they have police support - you are taken to the police station as part of the proces and to pay the 'fine' RKT have been known to plant CD's containing their tracks in victims premesis.
We called the guys ay 1stopmusic.com who are leag and represent orgainisations like Britains Performing Rights Society. They told us they dont normally bother with small bars and restaurants under about 100 covers- it's simply too much trouble and they do not go round with the police and confiscate equipment under any circumstances. However when a group of us bar owners in Loi Kroh decided we wanted to get these licences to prevent this kind of problem in the future, they negotiated discounted rates for us. which were,we felt very reasonable. There are 2 types of licence one to play recorded music, the other to play music via a computer.
These licences are to play foreign music only -no Thai- which costs more. You do not need a licence to play music via teh UBC?Truevisions radio stations, as UBC?True already possess one. Please pass this info on to any bar owners you know, Thai or Farang - both have been targetted.
Another nasty little scam -which wouldn't work but for the boys in brown!

Years ago, a similar scam was run here on Samui, going after "pirated software" Confiscating PC's and hefty fines, driving around in 2 Volvo Limousines, on the first ones windshield was written "Here comes the law", lousy, lousiest...... at those days, there was NOT A single PC with OEM or legal software available on samui, it was always HD to HD....have recently seen a raid of a copy cat CD/DVD shop... seems to be the annual "license fee" collection day!

Do things by the book, as much as possible, no trouble, no open gates for the suckers...! as simpleas that!

[rishi]

Samuian, on 2008-10-15 12:05:25, said:

Do things by the book, as much as possible, no trouble, no open gates for the suckers...! as simpleas that!

UTTER CRAP! - I actually did believe in this mantra the first couple of years I ran a small streetlevel business in Thailand and actually did act accordingly. - That does NOT prevent copyright scams of the kind that is widespread in Thailand. Have you ever run a streetlevel business in Thailand - potential victim to police accompanied setups like described in this thread as well as others linked to? - If that's the case - what kind of business and for how long?

[piewarmer]

Hi all, I am new to this forum, living in Chiang Mai.
I sponsor one of the bars mentioned above.
We were fined 40,000 a few nights ago, mainly for
having a CD case full of burned MP3's. guilty as charged.
I don't see how anyone can refuse paying up on the spot as the
police drag off the bar manager down to the monkeyhouse.
they will not release them until the money is paid. (or you know the cop boss)
I wanted to just get it over with.
Yes, its just another scam, annual fee 5,000.. peace of mind... pffft!

Anyway board members,
I hope to enjoy reading your blogs and contributing myself more in the future.
Cheers, chok dee krap. Piewarmer.

[KevinHunt]

piewarmer, on 2008-10-16 11:50:01, said:

Hi all, I am new to this forum, living in Chiang Mai.
I sponsor one of the bars mentioned above.
We were fined 40,000 a few nights ago, mainly for
having a CD case full of burned MP3's. guilty as charged.
I don't see how anyone can refuse paying up on the spot as the
police drag off the bar manager down to the monkeyhouse.
they will not release them until the money is paid. (or you know the cop boss)
I wanted to just get it over with.
Yes, its just another scam, annual fee 5,000.. peace of mind... pffft!

Anyway board members,
I hope to enjoy reading your blogs and contributing myself more in the future.
Cheers, chok dee krap. Piewarmer.

    They are preying on people's ignorance of the law and fear of the police. As far as I know there are a few companies that own copyrights for music in Thailand. I would ask them for a list of their copyrighted songs. The fact that you had copies of MP3's is irrelevant if they don't own the copyright for the songs you copied. Ask for their ID and a contact number for their superiors.  Rfuse to pay and tell them to speak with your lawyer (even if you don't have one).


  

[Ulysses G.]

If you put me in the monkey house for 10 minutes, I would be begging to pay.

[piewarmer]

Ulysses G., on 2008-10-16 18:57:56, said:

If you put me in the monkey house for 10 minutes, I would be begging to pay.

thats the way it is, you don't get to pay a small bail and deal with legalities later.
never got a receipt for the 40K , what a surprise,
beware, they are now roaming Chiang Rai.

[KevinHunt]

piewarmer, on 2008-10-19 12:11:40, said:

Ulysses G., on 2008-10-16 18:57:56, said:

If you put me in the monkey house for 10 minutes, I would be begging to pay.

thats the way it is, you don't get to pay a small bail and deal with legalities later.
never got a receipt for the 40K , what a surprise,
beware, they are now roaming Chiang Rai.

As I said before - these folk are preying on ignorance and fear.


See this article. I'll maybe send an email to them.



http://www.ip-watch....p?p=876&print=1

[Greenside]

KevinHUNT, on 2008-10-22 04:16:40, said:

http://www.ip-watch.org/weblog/index.php?p=876&print=1

Link not working

[Tywais]

Greenside, on 2008-10-22 07:56:43, said:

Link not working

Fixed.